Tuesday, July 23, 2013

EXCLUSIVE
Jat’s winter network revealed

From Abu Dhabi to Kiev - Jat’s new look winter

Following the recent semi annual IATA slots conference in Copenhagen for the allocation of 2013/14 winter season slots at airports, the full extent of Jat Airways’ upcoming winter schedule has been revealed. During the conference, slots are adjusted mainly through bilateral discussions between airlines and coordinators. The Serbian carrier has drafted its winter timetable in cooperation with Etihad Airways and will see the airline launch ten new destinations. Jat has requested slots at airports, with Banja Luka confirming yesterday it has received a request by the airline for daily flights. Besides Banja Luka, starting October 27, Jat will be launching services to Abu Dhabi, Beirut, Bucharest, Budapest, Cairo, Kiev, Ljubljana, Prague and Varna. Furthermore, Jat has requested slot time changes at several European airports, such as Amsterdam, to better adjust them to its new schedule.

The new destinations featured in Jat’s winter timetable have almost all been served by the Serbian carrier in the past. Services to Abu Dhabi will be timed so as not to clash with Etihad’s flights. Coupled with Etihad’s service, passengers from Belgrade will be able to connect onto Etihad’s entire network. The Emirati carrier will also place its codes on Jat’s service. Flights to Beirut were last operated several years ago, first as a stop over to Dubai and later as a stop to Damascus. In the past, Beirut provided a handful of passengers transiting through Belgrade mostly to Paris. Services to Cairo were suspended several years ago.

Closer to home Jat will be launching flights to cities in four neighbouring countries - Banja Luka, Budapest, Bucharest, Sofia and Varna. As it currently stands, all are set to operate on a daily basis, although changes in frequencies are possible as the timetable hasn’t been finalised in its entirety. In addition, one of the destinations mentioned is still under consideration. Jat will also resume services to Ljubljana. The route was suspended several years ago when Adria launched its flights to the Serbian capital. Flights to Prague will also resume, connecting Belgrade with the Czech capital for the first time since ČSA suspended the route in 2011. Kiev in Ukraine will feature as a new destination and will connect the two cities for the first time since Aerosvit discontinued the service, also in 2011.

158 comments:

  1. Slowly, this becames JAT&Etihad daily update web blog

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    1. well, only recent news in EX-YU aviation are concerning Jat & Etihad, so I don't get your comment.

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    2. I'm sure that if anything was happening with other countries' airlines, they'd write about it too.

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    3. Got a problem with that?

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    4. Hahaha i am interested what the Zagreb folks have to say about this, where are the comparaisons and Zagreb's regional and Middle Eastern network hahaha

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    5. I supose that the first Anonymus was trying to say, that there is so much news on JAT-Etihad, that it slowly but surely overwhelms oall other airline activities in the ex yu region.

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    6. This is how Jat's extra-regional network should look like:

      http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=beg-kbp%0D%0Abeg-auh%0D%0Abeg-ams%0D%0Abeg-bey%0D%0Abeg-txl%0D%0Abeg-bru%0D%0Abeg-cai%0D%0Abeg-cph%0D%0Abeg-dus%0D%0Abeg-fra%0D%0Abeg-got%0D%0Abeg-lhr%0D%0Abeg-svo%0D%0Abeg-mxp%0D%0Abeg-cdg%0D%0Abeg-prg%0D%0Abeg-fco%0D%0Abeg-arn%0D%0Abeg-tlv%0D%0Abeg-zrh%0D%0Abeg-str%0D%0Abeg-lca&MS=wls2&DU=mi

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    7. In Winter 2013. The regional network:

      http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=BEG-lju%0D%0Abeg-bnx%0D%0Abeg-sjj%0D%0Abeg-tgd%0D%0Abeg-tiv%0D%0Abeg-skp%0D%0Abeg-ath%0D%0Abeg-skg%0D%0Abeg-sof%0D%0Abeg-var%0D%0Abeg-otp%0D%0Abeg-bud&MS=wls2&DU=mi

      Other desired destinations could possibly be LWO, ODS, KIV.

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    8. This is news and there is no reason why it should not take up extra time on the blog. Would you prefer that we discuss the new royal baby?

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    9. You forgot to add IST to that map

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  2. Wow, this must mean that Etihad wants to make Jat a feeder airline... ;)

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    1. So where are all the haters "this will never happen" and "Zagreb is the regional transit powerhouse bla bla bla... On a more serious note, where is Purger by the way?

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    2. In Istanbul... so whan I did say that this deal is not perfect for Serbia. Even more I said it will make Zagreb small local airport as Sarajevo, Skopje abd Ljubljana

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    3. Hello Purger, how are you doing?

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    4. fine, thank you

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  3. Woooohooooo!!! Amazing new, I am really excited to read about all this. :D :D :D

    I guess Varna will be operated via Sofia? I can't wait for these flights to be loaded into the system!

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    1. Me neither, Austrian's monopoly on Varna is horrible.

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  4. No flight for INI again.. This must be the great news for people from Belgrade..we will continue flying from SOF this winter season.. Good luck with flight such Varna, Bucharest (which already being operated by tarom with atr 42), Kiev ( which was cancelled due to poor load factor), Budapest which nobody flight which nobody fly due to its closeness.. in one word: Catastrophic!

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    1. You do understand that Jat operated flights out of Nis some years ago and they were cancelled because of bad loads? Furthermore, even Montenegro Airlines which has generally low fares was about to suspend all flights to Nis.

      It's not our problem your city authorities are incompetent in developing the industry and raising the standard of living, so that more passengers from Nis could afford to travel by plane.

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    2. Sorry, but if you talking about MGX and Nis, its different story !
      MGX is flying from Nis, 5 times a week, and average procent passanger is about 60% up to 80% !
      So, when you talk about passangers of Nis aiport, give some REAL statistic, and no this ...

      I think that new managment in JAT will recognise Nis , for winter or summer 2014.

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    3. Yes and the only way this route can be sustained is with heavy subsidies, which means there is no healthy market there. If there were, there would be more airlines flying there.

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    4. It´s not just about building an airport and waiting for the airliners to come. There is no economical development. And laso, with a fast train connection, INI could be an alternative airport for Sofija. Lezi lebu da te jedem - that seems to be philosophy of avio industry development in Nish.

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    5. I also desagree with Anonymous..
      Actaully we are all anonymous here.. well anyway.. The JAT did not have exit with flight from/to INI cos I the time they operate from INI was not possible to even book a flight online. I remmember that in the time so many ppl complains that on the door of Jat office in Zurich was saying DOLAZIM ODMAH, and was like that all day long. Was so difficult to even buy a ticket.. MGX stop fliying INI once Montenegro and Serbia split so they so they did not have rights anymore to operate those flights. BTW Don´t tell me Tuzla has better economical potential..plzz! They just have a huge disaspora same as we do, and that is why they are doing well. Dont forget also then more then 70 per cent of Belgraders never flew with airplain :P and more then 50 per cent has not enough salary to pay round trip ticket to any of Jat and other companies destinations..So who is flying then? Diasspora and business people, which would aslo flight from INI soon.

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    6. I believe that JAT is in a pat position regarding the INI. On the one hand, the most suitable solution would be to introduce a direct line between INI and some West European destinations such as it is ZRH or VIE. On the other hand, those cities are important hubs, and it could mean that passangers are flying from INI to Paris or Berlin via VIE and ZRH instead via BEG, beacuse there is no an BEG-INI flight. On the other hand, I doubt that there is economical interest to introduce a BEG-INI flights, and I´m quite sure that for many Gastarbeiters it is more convinent to avoid a 1 stop flight in Belgrade and take a bus. There could be maybe one or two BEG-INI flights daily, but that would mean that many passangers from ZRH, VIE, PAR and so one would have to wait for few hours in Belgrade.

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    7. I mentioned in a previous thread:

      there are 45 busses/day to/from Nis and tickets aren't cheap.

      I think for sure they could make a go out of INI-BEG, even for O&D passengers, a couple times a day. Perfect for one of their old ATRs when they get new Q400s

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    8. Yes, but when you take the bus, you just have to be in the downtown of Nish, and than you also arrive in the dowtown in Belgrade. No additional costs, no additional time needed. + You don´t have to come hour prior to departure in Nish, and to make consideration if the food your mama has prepared is allowed as a luggage. Nish is having a good bus connection with highway, which kind a substitutes the non existance of fast trains. How many buses are there that connect Nish and Belgrade without stopping in another towns on the way?

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    9. dude, domestic flight, totally different rules. you can bring food in your luggage and you don't have to come an hour prior to departure

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    10. INI needs what Tuzla has, a low-cost airline.

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    11. they should definitely include the option of a shuttle downtown straight from the plane

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    12. "dude, domestic flight, totally different rules. you can bring food in your luggage and you don't have to come an hour prior to departure"

      Where did you get this?

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    13. simple, we are not member of EU, so we don't have to play by their rules when it's domestic flight. and, you don't have passport control when you head for the plane in domestic flight, so you can come 30 minutes before the flight, check-in, and head straight for the plane

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  5. I really, REALLY, hope that all these regional flights will be sold at a decent price!

    I have a feeling that morning arrival board at Belgrade airport will look pretty damn interesting now. :)

    Great to see one airline in the ex-Yugoslav region doing well. Was about time.
    Plus, Serbia deserves a break and something good happening to it.

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    1. I have a feeling the arrivals hall in BEG will need to be expanded in the next couple of years to cope with capacity. Unless EY can secure Terminal 1, and with a proposition to seperate the arrivals for T1 from T2, enlarge it, to cope with capacity.

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    2. I actually think they won't have to. All these additional flights will primarily cater for the needs of transit passengers, they don't use the arrival halls.
      What worries me, is the Belgrade airport terminal space which is rather narrow (even after the renovation) and it lacks more cafés and generally more shops.

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    3. True. Airport Belgrade is not competative to new VIE airport. Even not to TGD and Bucharest. It´s not just about the quantitity of shop, leasure possibilities and so on. They have to offer some afordable eat and drink possiblities (the prices are now up to 5 times higher than in the city). Many airports managed to bring McDonalsds and other fastfood chains.

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  6. I really don't understand why VAR? And why CAI and BEY, when they both are served by EY, and have great connections with Europe?
    @ Anon 9:28
    Well, BUD won't be used by O&D (there's just not enough demand for that) but by transit passengers (same when MA flew, most passengers were transiting). Also, why should RO take transit passengers from BEG to OTP, when JU can do that vice versa?
    And, INI might get some flights, this is just draft schedule.

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    1. VAR had both Austrian and Malev before, and quite good loads as I understand it. Malev even had two flights a day. And from my personal sources (a girl working at Varna airport) Austrian flights are often full and overbooked. So, there is a year-round need. Now only Austrian is flying there, and if you don't book several months in advance it's pretty darn expensive to fly there.

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    2. With a strong presence of European carriers and Turkish Airlines in both Cairo and Beirut, I highly doubt a single passenger transits via the Persian Gulf airports when travelling to Europe. Etihad wants Jat to capture a share of this market. With these routes launched, they will, in a way, go head to head with Turkish Airlines and Pegasus which have established themselves as serious players in that market. I am mentioning them because they operate out of a similar geographical location as Jat.

      With these routes Jat's Middle Eastern network will include: Cairo, Beirut, Tel Aviv, Larnaca and Abu Dhabi. That's really not bad. I am sure that all these routes will be operated in the middle of the night, like the rest of the European and Turkish carriers operate them.

      It will be interesting to see what time they will schedule their waves. I am sure that the first departure will be scheduled for 07:00 with the other flights arriving between 05:30 and 06:00.

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    3. To fly 5 hours to AUH and another 3 and a half hours back to CAI is pointless and too long. Direct flight BEG-CAI is roughly 3 hours. Same with BEY. Maybe KWI, IKA or AMM will be next to the list.

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    4. KWI, IKA - no way, they connect them through AUH.

      AMM maybe but i doubt it, perhaps in combination with BEY or DAM once the situation calms down.

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  7. Varna and Abu Dhabi is a surprise. It is interesting how BEY and CAI reopen. Im surprised that Tirana will not reopen. It will be interesting with what a/c and if it actually does happen.

    I expect to see SJJ and SKP go double daily. Not only AMS, but ZRH, CDG, BRU, LHR and TXL for me are the likely candiates to get slot shifts.

    I wonder what else is installed for JAT. Fingers crossed, some a/c will recieve IFE systems :)

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    1. It is not a surprise cause Hogan announced it before that Abu Dhabi should go double daily, one morning and one evening flight. Varna is probably the smartest and most unexpected destination of all of those announced. Kishinev would be the other one. Glad they're thinking out of the "Ex-Yu" region i.e not limiting their regional network to Ex-Yu countries.

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    2. To go double daily very quickly is quite a bold move. Capacity still needs to be filled on this one daily flight now. Unless there is strong bookings october onwards to justify such a drastic jump in frequencies. Varna has surprised people, but it looks like an interesting move. Hope it works well.

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    3. It is called dumping i.e eliminating the competition by extra capacity with low prices and convenient timings...have in mind TK in the first place. They have to push them out of Belgrade as much as possible if they want their Asian connections to be profitable. They won't be able to do that by offering just one daily flight.

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    4. Jat's Abu Dhabi service will include a stop??? Unless the first A319's are delivered and in service by then which will be cutting it close or Abu Dhabi is not launched until maybe next year.

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    5. Why would it incur a stop?!

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    6. The B733 doesnt have the range to operate full BEG-AUH. The A319 could nicely do the direct route, as shown by EY.

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    7. Wasn't it already mentioned that JU will be getting new A319 by the winter season?

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    8. Just by curiosity, could a 727 perform full load BEG-AUH? Thank you.

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    9. Maybe the 727-200 ADV but will be cutting it very close with reserves and would not be efficient and competitive today. Would be a sight to see and hear.

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  8. 'Flights to Beirut were last operated several years ago, first as a stop over to Dubai and later as a stop to Damascus.'

    Small correction. The last time when Jat operated flights to Beirut, they did it on their way to Dubai. Once Israel invaded Lebanon the Dubai flight was moved to Larnaca. As this combination worked well, Jat never returned to Beirut.
    Beirut and Damascus were linked together back in 2002/2003. After that Damascus was dropped as Jat's fleet was shrinking with the removal of the B727s and the DC-9s.

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    1. Correction. When the war broke out in Lebanon, JAT had 1 or 2 direct flights to DXB with big restrictions to cargo before securing a temporary licence to operate via LCA. After the war they returned via BEY to DXB for another 6 months. I flew BEG-BEY-DXB back in 2007. In 2008 it went via LCA. At that time BEY was still open but as a BEG-BEY-DAM-BEG flight, which was short lived, and operated with the B733. Since then both routes were suspended.

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  9. Ambitious!

    Sofia & Varna! So now only ZAG, TIA & PRN are needed to have the entire region covered. What about Timosoara?

    -- Smokiboy

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    1. Timisoara is way too close for it to be operated. I would also add Kishinev to the list of regional operations that need to be opened.

      I can't wait to see their timetable to Montenegro. I think this takeover will spell the end of Montenegro Airlines. Belgrade is their only destination with decent demand.
      Well, if they fail Croatia Airlines can take over their Embraers... naturally if LH gives their blessing. lol

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    2. still praying for the neighbors cow to die I see.

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    3. Of course I am. Montenegro Airlines has been using its Montenegrin lobby in Belgrade to prevent Jat from establishing the normal number of frequencies between the two cities.

      If I recall correctly, the worst period was the summer seasons of 2009 when Jat had almost completely handed over the market to YM.
      So yes, now I want them to fail because they are incompetent.

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    4. Didn't Jat have a stopover in Timisoara years ago?

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    5. Well it´s certainly true that JAT had suffered under some important uneconomical decision due to lobbies and politics. It´s not just Montenegro, there are also redicilous contracts and fees payed to "JAT tehnika" and Airport Belgrade.

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  10. With Jat returning to Ljubljana, does Adria really stand a chance? Their winter timetable has only 5 weekly flights to Belgrade, so it's not like Belgrade is their bread and butter route.

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  11. Just to mention who failed with a similar concept: Malev (bancrupt), CSA (almost went bancrupt), LOT (almost bancrupt), ALITALIA (almost bancrupt). To feed all this cities makes sence: if you have strong O/D market plus own long haul, plus really strong network product like Austrian, or TK bedded in a world wide alliance with some 500+x destinations, miles and more, huge hub airport with wi fi etc. So Jat Airways (or whatever the name will be), has to dump the fares in order to attract pax to fly CAI/BEG/ARN, LJU/BEG/AUH or BEY/BEG/ZRH instead of CAI/VIE/ARN, LJU/IST/AUH or BEY/IST/ZRH.....

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    1. Yes but what you are failing to note is that Jat has Etihad's backing, in other words they are preparing for this massive expansion with deep pockets. It's not like they have to rely on the Serbian government to pay for their bills.
      Plus, the main difference is that Jat will have a professional management where the government will NOT interfere. Those are the main differences that make the Jat case different from those you mentioned above.

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    2. Sure I see the differences as well, however 4 coupon tickets are low yield....turn it on way or another. Don't forget that EY, EK and so one are only so "successful" with their strategy because they receive the fuel almost for free at their home base, make huge money with the duty frees and their staff consists mainly of Bangladeshi check-in staff (salary 500$) and Moldavian stewardesses (salary 900$), there are no unions.....At present Etihad desperately tries to turn Air Berlin to profit. Each month they announce other cost cutting measures (the newest one closing the complete call centre) and still there is no profit. Please compare AB managers and JU managers.....

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    3. I have never seen a Moldavian stewardess:

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    4. 1. Serbia is not in the EU which means that ALL decisions are taken in Belgrade and not Brussels.

      2. Serbia's standard is comparably lower than the German one which means that they don't have expensive staff.

      3. Serbia has much better union laws which are not as strict as the German ones.

      4. The Serbian government is backing Etihad while Etihad has to deal with the German government which is very loyal to Lufthansa. In other words, whatever Etihad wants, the Serbian government will give it to them.

      5. Serbia does not use the Euro, which means that by selling tickets in Dinars the fares will be cheaper for Western European travellers.

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    5. Not sure what difference using the dinar makes when 90% of their expenses are in Euros or Dollars. Serbia might use the Dinar cosmetically, but everything is indexed to Euros, more or less.

      In fact, for western european travellers, who's payment methods are in euros, they'll face a 2-3% premium if they have to pay in dinars

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    6. All domestic expenses are in local currency, including the salaries.

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    7. like I said. 90% of their costs are in euros and dollars.

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  12. Interesting how Zagreb is not on the list. Either LH/Star dominants in Croatia is just too hard an egg to crack for Etihad or could it be that they have there own plans for Zagreb...., will we have Etihad flights to Zagreb soon?

    To be honest no matter what people say about OU and LH/Star (including me), they do have Croatia pretty well covered at this time.

    Anyway, not trying to change the topic so good luck to Belgrade and Jat with the expansion.

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    1. I am sure that eventually Zagreb will be launched. Don't forget that Etihad had to make this winter timetable with roughly 4-5 Atrs. Maybe next year when more regional aircraft join the fleet Zagreb will be launched. It only shows that they consider other regional destinations as higher priority, which makes sense as it seems the market is bigger there. Though Ljubljana is smaller than Zagreb the demand for air travel is greater due to the distance between the two cities.

      I doubt it has anything to do with Etihad's plans for Zagreb. If Jat launched flights to Zagreb they could serve a market that couldn't be served via AUH, more specifically destinations in Russia, Ukraine and the Middle East.

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    2. Most passangers from Zagreb trevel to Western Europe, and there is no sense for them to flight via Belgrade. Zagreb line would make sense only for buisinessmen from both cities - but the common buisiness is currently underdeveloped. A LJU line makes absolutely no sense.

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    3. Your statement makes no sense, there is a decent O&D market between BEG and LJU. Prior to the crisis there were roughly 75 daily passengers.

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    4. In my opinion Kishinev and eventually Odessa should be launched before Zagreb or Tirana. Glad that they're not limiting their regional expension to the hopeless Ex-Yu countries.

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    5. From Zagreb to the Middle East and beyond makes more sense than going via Frankfurt or Munich. I just wonder if or how OU would react to this is they react at all.

      You would assume they would be considering Dubai and Moscow now but who knows what they are thinking!

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    6. "Your statement makes no sense, there is a decent O&D market between BEG and LJU. Prior to the crisis there were roughly 75 daily passengers."

      Yes, 75 passangers feeding the Adria flight that are covered with JAT´s direct lines.

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    7. @Q400,

      I think its safe to assume Qatar Air is covering that angle, if Emirates comes to Zagreb it'll be another airline from the region that serves Zagreb and offers connection to Australia.

      Not long time ago, Malaysian Airlines flew to Zagreb wit their B777, I think they might return by 2015 once economy recovers and new owners take over.

      I think new owners would be wise to speak to all major airlines that once serviced Zagreb airport and kind of entice them to come back, with Croats having free and ease of travel worldwide and growing income many more Croatians would afford to travel intercontinental visit their families in Australia, North America.

      I think this is quite possible in near future.

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    8. Are you dreaming that Emirates will send their 777 to Zagreb?! Can you please remind us under what circumstances and how long did MH flew to Zagreb? Ok, i guess that tells everything. Sure, Zagreb will entice airlines to come back cause of a nice new terminal LOL as if they were blind and have no idea of what to do and where to launch a route... You sound totally pathetic and delusional.

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    9. The Malaysia 777 service was via Vienna and did not last very long. It actually stopped pre crises and I don't think we will see it any time soon in Zagreb if ever. You are right that Qatar has the middle east covered but it has it limitations at the moment not being non stop and no Sydney service.

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    10. Think one of the reasons for the MH flights were also the malaysian uno peace keepers based in Croatia in the 90s

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    11. I think ZAG will be launched in summer 2014, but for any chance of getting transit pax (with good marketing and especially pricing policy only), it should be flown twice daily to catch up with the morning and evening waves.

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  13. Which winter are they talking about 2016?

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  14. I wonder what Etihad's interest in PRG is when they already codeshare on CSA's direct flight between PRG and AUH ...

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    1. The O&D and the Prague to Balkans and Middle-East market. So JAT is going head-to-head on TK in the region. Varna was the excellent choice, kudos for the guy who saw that opportunity.

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    2. Belgrade is returning what it was. BEG Had connections 25 years ago,that Ljubljana and Zg probably will never have in future due close distance from Vienna.Belgrade had direct connections for example to LA,Sydney,Pert,Melbourne,Vancouver,Singopore,Kuala Lumpur,Bankok,Detroit,Clevlend,Karachi,etc

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  15. It is really interesteing to read all those comments idneed,so many smart people ! REMEBER ONE THING! AL thos GUYS FROM ETIHAD knows for what they are doing this, and they also know that this is a great chance to expand to europe :) JAT STILL HAS a chance to compete with others.greetings

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  16. It's a pity that there is not expansion towards west at the moment like Barcelona, Hamburg, Lyon ...

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    1. Mind that this is only a winter expansion. Hamburg is gonna be served with Air Berlin through Dusseldorf. Barcelona might open in summer, there is no need for Lyon.

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    2. I am happy for Jat, but I do think it would be nice if Ryanair launched some flights towards smaller cities in France where a lot of Serbian diaspora lives...

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    3. Swiss already opened Geneva for your information.

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    4. I know. because of Jat, I'm sure. preemptive strike

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    5. Exactly.

      Wonder if they might launch it as well on the other days of the week at some point.

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    6. I would like to see some more links with Russia and the CIS. It baffles me that nobody has thought of initiating flights to St.Petersburg, one would think that is has the potential of becoming a profitable route.

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    7. Lyon should be nice fot the diaspora and the french market where only CGD is served and Euro aiport with Wizz..

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  17. I am a lite bit disappointed, they'll not have flights to Spain and Portugal.

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    1. Barcelona and Madrid are opening in Summer 2014.

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    2. This is not the last but the first JAT/Etihad expansion and have in mind it is taking place in winter... It's absolutely stunning in my opinion/

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    3. Nothing to be disappointed about, quite the contrary.

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  18. If INI wants to see more passenger they are gonna have to attract some low-cost carriers, such as Ryanair and Wizz Air.

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    1. I agree, just look at TZL for instance. INI needs Wizzair - Scandinavia, Switzerland, Germany,..... For those who want more I am afraid it would have to be SOF or YM via TGD.

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    2. If there would be any PAX @ INI someone would have already been flying!

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    3. like with Tuzla which before barely had any pax, now Wizz is operating full flights? Please

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  19. I wonder if more codeshare agreements are to follow.

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  20. So 15 within the Southeast Europe. That makes sense.

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  21. What is the meaning of open sky agreemtns? Does that mean that JAT may opperate every line in Europe, for instance TIV-ROM, or SOF-FRA?

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  22. no word about SKP getting an afternoon daily flight...
    Ah well,then I'll just continue to fly with OU, JP and OS

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    1. Wow, i guess you're such an important market... Let's see for how long you're gonna fly OU/JP before they withdraw or go bust.

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    2. an important market as JAT is an important airline....

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    3. I hope the new JAT management doesn't think like the first Anonymous reply here. Every market and customer base should be respected as well as every competitor. As far as SKP, I think it is quite important considering the size of the diaspora, the respect JAT has, the increasing numbers for SKP and the fact that Macedonia doesn't have a national carrier.

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    4. Of course SKP will get at least double daily services.
      Dont let you fool by anonymous comments.

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  23. Hmm, they will use ATR 72 and Boeing 737-300 for all these flights? Or maybe new Airbus A319 Aircrafts and Dash?

    ReplyDelete
  24. BEG-NNX-BEG daily flights (ATR most probably?) may have sense, but again it depends what would be possible connections from BEG to FRA, DUS, ZRH, CDG, LHR or similiar. If you go at 6.20 from BNX would you be able to continue with morning flights there? Also coming back from those destinations, would it be acceptable to wait whole day at BEG, e.g. from DUS from 13.00 till 21.00 or next morning? So, if there are not good transfer possibilities for flights from and to BNX via BEG then it would be useless. ZAG is still very close to BNX, with many connections to Western Europe, Germany especially!

    ReplyDelete
  25. Mehhh...Kiev.
    Kiev has double daily FlyDubai,Air Arabia and next year Emirates.
    And O&D between BEG and Kiev failed already.

    Saint Peterburg is THE destination missing!
    They have more pax than Kiev,Budapest and Prague.
    More inhabitants than Kiev,Madrid or Berlin,Barcelona.

    Even Mahan Air flies now to Saint Peterburg...
    That only shows what potential this destination has.

    Lufthansa takes all the pax from Belgrade to Saint Peterburg.

    Also Tel Aviv should go nonstop-if not : cancel it!
    Pegasus does that route better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes,they should skip Kiev for Sankt Petersburg immediately!
      Have been there many times and iam impressed by its sheer size.
      Everytime i flew there with LH they used twice daily A321 and the flights were always packed to the last seat!
      I can only laugh when i read that Belavia wants to transfer pax from Belgrade to SP with two stops...
      Sorry but thats nonsense!

      Delete
    2. @5:42 - Wow, i wonder why you are not the CEO of Etihad, dumbass. Ukraine and not just Kiev is a HUGE market on which JU faces barely any competition to the whole South East Europe and with significant O-D. I see them even launching Odessa by the way and Chisinau. Dedicating an a/c to LED means cannibalizing on their own Moscow line/cooperation with Aeroflot and having and aircraft absent for 8-9 hours a day on a highly competitive market. Those were the most stupid comments of the day. So i guess JU should not launch any route where other carriers failed before for reasons inherent to them? You idiots.

      Delete
    3. Chisinau will become Wizzair base with even better connections to Western Europe/Spain than Belgrade.
      LED will NEVER cannibalize on Moscow because all airlines serving Moscow also serve LED and
      without problems at all.
      And where do you see high competition on Beg-LED with
      0 flights?!
      And you see them launching Odessa where even CSA failed.
      Calling me dumbass and idiot is not an argument either.
      Why dont you take a look at LEDs numbers and destinations?
      You will be surprised!
      .

      Delete
    4. Kiev-Belgrade-Tivat could be a gold mine.

      Delete
    5. Of course, Hogan is dumb, new Jat's CEO is a moron and that is why they choose to launch Kiev...hello! If they didn't launch LED that's for a reason. It requires one aircraft almost completely dedicated to that route during the day and i think this expansion is pretty impressive already. No one is saying it'll never be launched but at the moment, the cooperation with SU via SVO works well and you can hardly imagine the flights to LED being any cheaper (or are you ready to pay the premium for the direct flight?).

      Kiev is definitely a route that had to be launched and i remind you that Kiev is almost as big as St. Petersburg and the capital of a country of ~50 million, many of who take holidays on the Adriatic and travel to South East Europe in general. Through BEG they could connect to the UAE if the price is reasonable and that is a huge market, Emirates with PS being the only full-service airlines on the route.

      Besides, direct flights always create new business opportunities. If SOF without any connecting capabilities can support KBP, why not BEG?

      If you want so badly to compare LED's numbers and destinations vs. KBP, you'll notice that Mahan you mentioned flies there only like twice a month on charters. KBP on the other hand has regular flights to Iran. LED serves 11 million yearly pax, KBP 9 - i don't see any big difference in that. KBP is also the hub of PS through which they could codeshare with JU on intra-Ukrainian destinations.

      CSA failed in Odessa cause they are too far to use a turboprop and the jet comes as overcapacity. JU could perfectly serve Odessa with the ATR/Dash, that market is terribly underserved. Also, CSA had to compete with Western airlines to their most lucrative routes and couldn't funnel the ODS pax to AUH, what JU can easily do.

      Anyway, sick of that mentality "if VV or OK failed then JU will fail as well". That doesn't mean anything.

      Greetings from Ukraine

      Delete
    6. Through Belgrade they could connect into the UAE...
      hahaha...!!
      In Kyiv you have Flydubai to Dubai twice a day nonstop!
      Then you have Air Arabia to Sharjah.
      From 16.01 next year you have daily nonstop Dubai with Emirates.

      KBP : 8.478.000pax
      LED : 11.154.000pax

      Also Mahan flies twice aweek with A300-600
      while Caspian and Taban fly charter to KBP with MD-80.

      Delete
    7. Odessa will have nonstop flights to Dubai with Flydubai so forget that anybody would connect via BEG.

      Delete
    8. "Through Belgrade they could connect into the UAE...
      hahaha...!!"

      Yes, why not, can you explain yourself? They would connect through the Antartcic if the price and the timing is right, BEG is not such a deviation.

      No need to remind me of what we have in Kiev, those low-costs are as expensive as regular airlines, Emirates being the only big player right now while Etihad will be taking their pax via BEG, that's the whole point of this cooperation.

      "KBP : 8.478.000pax
      LED : 11.154.000pax"

      Thanks for quoting the statistics but those are the same as i mentioned, that's not such a difference and it means nothing regarding route opportunities. Also i don't know where have you heard that FZ flies double daily to Kiev, their flights are daily only and soon moving to IEV.

      Don't know if you're making of yourself a fool intentionally but here is a link for you if you know to read Russian:

      http://www.avianews.com/russia/2013/07/22_tehran_stpetersburg.shtml

      Mahan is flying twice per month until the 15th of September, period. Are you obsessed with LED or what? You are forgetting that besides Caspian and Taban Air there is also UM Airlines flying scheduled flights to Teheran from Kiev. Since when anyway the flights from Kiev to Teheran became an indicative of O&D and connecting demand between Belgrade and Kiev?!

      So don't put further shame on yourself with such statements. LED will probably be launched at some point anyway, for now KBP made more sense to them and rightfully so, period.

      Delete
    9. "Odessa will have nonstop flights to Dubai with Flydubai so forget that anybody would connect via BEG."

      Just because Odessa will have one airline flying directly to Dubai it means no one will connect to ANYWHERE via BEG?!

      Gosh, you would be able to bankrupt even Emirates in a month if you was consulted. Seriously, now you really sound like a full-blown idiot. I won't loose my time any further.

      Delete
    10. ^ Seems that there is not only a ZAG - BEG rivalry but also a KBP - LED rivalry!
      ; )

      Delete
    11. People here have no time to think about such shit as airport rivalries besides the absence of intra-Balkanic antagonism in the region. Both LED and KBP are decent airports with decent service and perspective future.

      Soon it will be hard to talk about BEG-ZAG rivalry anyway so it should be a forgotten subject.

      Delete
  26. Correction: BNX instead NNX, sorry

    ReplyDelete
  27. Great articles on this blog, but huge problems with allowing anonymus posts. This allowes mentaly disturbed people to use it as their playground. This was my first and last comment here :). SunFlyer.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Mentally disturbed people is probably your word for people
      who are not ass-licking and not cheering every nonsense.
      Or you are talking about yourself you Anonymous!

      Delete
  28. Does anyone know how many pax daily OU, JU and JP, have on their flights to SKP, respectively?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. OU and JP have 2 daily flights from/to SKP-I believe 7 days a week.
      They usually use propeller plains with a capacity of some 100 passengers. The plains are always full.. so u do the math.

      Delete
  29. Flying to SOF,BUD and OTP will only feed Easyjet and Wizzairs flights, for example to Dubai and Baku...If BEG wants to compete with those airports they should NOT fly there.
    BEG will only bleed pax to them as it did int he past.
    I cannot believe these new routes.
    They are worthless:
    Kiev - Belgrade : already failed because there are no economic ties with Ukraine at all.
    Cairo and Beirut make only sense daily nonstop but there will not be enough demand to fill this overcapacity.
    Better would have been direct flights to Kuwait as there are a lot of Serbs and TK already transports a lot of people from Serbia to there(one of its most succesful connections).
    As someone already said Tel Aviv has to go nonstop.
    St. Peterburg,Hamburg and Barcelona must also follow in summer.
    Ljublana from year to year has lower demand although they have a monopoly and BNX is only for political reasons and bleeding money.
    Only destination that is nice and thinking out of the box is Varna.

    No good start for the new Jat. At least i hope they cancel these routes before they bleed TOO MUCH MONEY...
    as they did already in the past.



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. LYS may also be interesting..

      Delete
    2. It´s quite difficult to imagine that JAT flights can feed Wizzair or Easy jet. The passangers would have to buy two sepparete tickets in that case (one for JAT, another for Easy/Wiz), which would mean that they would have to take the risk of missing the connection by themselves. I can hardly imagine, that someone pays like 150 ticket to Sofia and 380 Euros ticket from Sofia to Dubai with taking the chance to miss the Sofia-Dubai flight.

      Delete
    3. You are talking bullshit. How can they feed Wizz and other's flights, but not take any pax from there? Will they be selling tickets only in one direction? Kiev is a great route, KWI is served via AUH. You are talking nonsense. I wonder why you're not the CEO of Etihad, dumbass.

      Delete
  30. Well, I guess the list is just a proposal and doesn't mean it's final yet. They don't even know if they will have sufficient number of aircraft to cover all those destinations. I am glad to see BEY and CAI coming back. I was hoping to see TIP as well, but I guess that will have to wait a bit. Good luck to Jat. This is definitely going to be a tough fight against LH and TK who dominate the region. Hopefully, with a good product and good connections, Jat will be able to regain some of its glory from the past.

    ReplyDelete
  31. I also hope that it isnt final yet.
    All these destination proposals make no sense at all.
    What kind of passengers do they want to attract?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Passangers willing to safe 20 or 50 Euros if they don´t fly directly from SOF to Frankfurt but via Belgrade, for instance. - The same calculation/modell Lufthansa and Austrian are having with passengers from other countries.

      Delete
  32. I fear that those old idiots that run Jat get only replaced by
    even so incompetent new management.
    Now imagine what will happen if all those jokes of new routes except Abu Dhabi go through and fail miserable -
    will Etihad have the guts to acknowledge the error and stop them?
    I doubt it because they never cancel a route.
    So please instead of opening many new useless routes wait for the summer and first fix all the problems Jat has in abundance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It´s actually quit an ignorant comment you have posted. It shows that you either don´t have any clue on aviation, or you are just not getting the regional concept the routs stand for. As a Southeast European airliner JAT is having a unique opportunity in the history to take the position of a regional leader, and I really hope Etihad will not miss it. If you could elaborate your affective judgment, maybe we could catch the point. But is there one?

      Delete
    2. Јаој Бојана иди боље рађај децу место што се мешаш у ваздухопловствоm, где ти очигледно није место.

      Delete
  33. A regional leader in what?
    In making losses?
    You probably mean Belgrade should become something like a regional hub,something like Ljubljana was ten years ago.
    But today that concept does not work anymore,even from Skopje and Pristina you can fly everywhere nonstop.
    Etihad should first fix Jats problems with fleet and service before thinking about an expansion!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Коjа си ти будала боже ме сачуваj...

      Delete
    2. Judging by your politeness, you must be serb

      Delete
    3. It has nothing to do with the guy's politeness, it has more to do with your lack of aviation knowledge.
      Some of the major airlines in Europe such as Alitalia, Lufthansa, Austrian Airlines, Turkish Airlines, British Airways... all heavily rely on transit passengers.

      Serbia and Belgrade are too small to have an airline which will solely rely on O&D passengers. They have to add transit passengers so as to be able to have a great deal of frequencies towards various European cities.

      Furthermore, I still fail to see where you got the idea that Etihad will NOT fix Jat's problems? Especially since Etihad has such a great trackrecord when it comes to fixing failing airlines.

      In conclusion, the guy might have been a bit blunt but he wasn't far from the truth.

      А што се тиче анонимуса изнад, ти си искомплексиран, мора да си Хрват.

      Delete
    4. Bojana, it is quite obvious that you have no clue on modern aviation industry. Austrian´s flighjts from Vienna to Belgrade or Sofia are full of passangers from Germany and all other Europen destinations, cause people are ready to fly with one stop, if they can save like 20 or 50 euros which quite common for flights with a stop. You also have to imagane that the time has dramatically changed if you compare it to some 15 years ago. Nowdeys if you fly route Berlin-Vienna-Belgrade for instance you can check your luggage for Belgrade already in Berlin and it is Berlin where you will get both boarding ticktets, the BER-VIE and VIE-BEG, get issued. Transit flights got comfortable and are often cheaper. I´m really not fancying personal remarks, but in this case I believe that you are making this obviosly failed and bitter comments for some other reasons.

      Delete
    5. Ref. Ano. 8.02 AM

      I am glad for my correct guessing.
      So, you are definitely serb, but not ordinary one, but one that you qualified Bojana with. Ref. 2.30 AM

      Delete
    6. “BojanaLondon” has pointed at something Belgrade doesn't like at all.
      BEG and JAT want all the passengers from former Yugoslavia gathered at BEG. In their minds, that would make them big. Bigger than Vienna for example.
      Otherwise they feel miserable or at least they don’t feel well.
      If there were no any other airport in Serbia or even former Yugoslavia then the citizens of Belgrade would be proud of having an airport there. It’s all about Serb mentality.
      I strongly support BojanaLondon's opinion the flights should be distributed to all airports as equally as it is possible. (If nothing else, in case of emergency the aircraft can have its greater chances at the nearest airport on the route)
      If passengers from, for example, southern Serbia travelled to Belgrade by bus, in order to catch a flight to Sydney, why passengers from Belgrade wouldn’t travel to Nis in order to catch a flight to Vancouver?
      Of course, the above sentence was an illustration only – for example all airports can not be of fire-fighting category 10, or can not have gates for 400 passengers, and I can understand hubs should exist for intercontinental or generally long haul flights but not for regional flights or even flights within Europe done by airliners up to 180 seats.
      Wizz air is a good example of how a modern airline company should organise its traffic. A month or two ago, they organised flights from Tuzla to a few destinations scattered across Europe rather than taking passengers to Budapest first. On the contrary, JAT is an example of a local company that wants to be considered as the most developed and best organised one, even though they still use a star configuration regarding organisation of their traffic and live in the 20th century.


      Delete
    7. ^^ I think that you are missing the point here. It is obvious that some people will be really disappointed if Etihad manages to make serious company out of JAT. People from Nis and city of Nis should use their time to lobby for the building of the fast train connection, which would allow them to arrive at Tesla Airport in like 1 houre or 1 h 20 minutes. And regarding the JAT and Etihad: this is only the first timetable and it is quite normal that Etihad will try to implentate buisiness modell that clearly brings profit. Aster a period of accomodetion it would be quite possible to see JAT flying from Tivat to Paris or from Nis to Zurich. Or from Tuzla to Geneva. But that is a question of long time strategy and not of a planning of the first common JAT-Etihad this season winter time table.

      And regarding your bitter voice: you can be sure that people from Belgrade are not opsessed with them selves as the way you and folks from the small towns are.

      Delete
    8. People this is to many philosophy. JAT is going in private hands and professional management now. Otherwise it would probably stop to exist in very few months or years. So everything that Etihad makes out of JAT is good and a progress, because otherwise we would have no carrier and would have to face the same destiny as other countries and cities who lost their airliner - there would be flights just to 5 or 6 destinations from belgrade and the prices would be very expensive due to the lack of competition with the local company (JAT).

      Delete
    9. BojanaLondon has raised some good points. But I would also like to address the anonymous of 10:18 who said the following: "Belgrade is returning what it was. BEG Had connections 25 years ago,that Ljubljana and Zg probably will never have in future due close distance from Vienna.Belgrade had direct connections for example to LA,Sydney,Pert,Melbourne,Vancouver,Singopore,Kuala Lumpur,Bankok,Detroit,Clevlend,Karachi,etc"

      Returning to what? Unless you have been asleep for the last 20 years, akin to Kusturica's Underground, you will have realized that the map of Europe has changed dramatically and so has the general aviation. Gone are the days when BEG was a capital of relatively prosperous Yugoslavia, a country of 24 million people, East and West blocks are gone too, replaced by EU (of which you are not even a part of), and most importantly you have failed to calculate in the disruptive force of LCCs and the three large legacy airline groups which all fight for the prosperous intercontinental flights.

      Belgrade is now the capital city of poor and politically marginalized country of 7.2 million people whose airline is fighting for survival.
      The fact that Etihad has decided to pump in some fresh money into it is an EXCELLENT news and much needed boost. However, do not fool yourself into thinking that Etihad (or any other foreign investor) is doing this for the sole purpose of saving JAT or boosting pax numbers at BEG Nikola Tesla airport. This is the fight of the giants: Etihad vs. Lufthans, vs. Turkish. If JAT prospers as a result and if Nikola TEsla sees a boost in traffic all the better.
      Dreams of a regional hub with intercontinental flights are just dreams for, whether you like it or not, BEG still has quite a negative connotation in the region which has many other and better flight choices to beyond Europe.
      It is questionable how many of the proposed routes will ever see the light of day and if so, how many will be canceled after a couple of months.
      Like I said in the opening of this long post, the aviation world has changed dramatically and to raise from a popper to stars via financial injection of a big player who is only looking after its own interests is premature at best.

      Now in the matter of usual discussion here on this forum you may proceed and call me 'idiot', hater, and all the other names in the book, because my opinion does not agree with your megalomania.

      Delete
    10. ^^ Nevertheless, Belgrade had a suitable position to be a center of Souteast European avio industry. It is hard to make any comparations with the period of 20 years ago, because important open sky agreements are signed meanwhile. Etihad and JAT should not try to make some kind of revival of the JAT´network from the 80s - they have unique opportunity now to bring JAT in few years on a much higher level than it was back 20 or 25 years ago, beacuse there is a common regional market. To have "direct" JAT´s flights to Sydney or even Chicago is an illusion. Those "direct" flights were actually opperated with 3 or even four stops (BEG-AUH-SIN-SYD; BEG-AUH-DEL-BNK-SYD) and lasted far more than a 1-stop-flight with Etihad BEG-AUH-SYD. Chicago was opperated via Toronto in the same way. Twenty years ago it was ok for an airline to have 1 flight per week to Sydney or Chicago or New York. Nowdays costumers expect at least a daily service, and for daily intercontinental service you need 2 aircrafts per destination, which is impossible for JAT. On the other hand, I think that JAT could connect Africa with the rest of the Europe.

      Delete
    11. As for me, I wouldn't live in Belgrade not even if I were offered to be JAT's CEO. I've always preferred living in the city located in "provincija".
      In addition, I don’t think I’m the one who’s missed the point, contrary to that, your post’s just claimed what I was talking about.
      It seems you still rather see Serbia with one airport than two. What a bloody train! Killing Nis Airport, all Serbian Governments, during the last 20 years, have strongly been supporting Pristina considering Nis as being “provincija”.

      In addition, please let me know which airport is mostly used as an alternative to BEG? Should that one be closed too?

      Finally, you said, “But that is a question of long time strategy and not of a planning of the first common JAT-Etihad this season winter time table.”

      Sorry but I don’t think it’s a long time strategy, that should be considered as an urgent change JAT couldn’t have performed as yet for the lack of its fleet, a question of not making new debt, a question of surviving. But it asks for a team that is able to monitor and analyse world’s civil-aviation market and also make JAT a modern, it means, flexible company.

      Regards from “provincija” located westerly of the Drina river



      Delete
    12. For me it is quit obvious taht you live in an irrational world. The old, big Yugoslavia had like 16 airports, and many of them had direct connections with cities out of the country. One of oldest JAT´s lines was Split-Rome, and there were also some direct flights from Zagreb to New Yorks. JAT did also have a direct Tivat-Frankfurt and Tivat-Zurich line before the desolution of Serbia and Montenegro. For a smart person that is a reason enough NOT to believe that the reason for not flying Nish is the one that there is old fashiond belief in JAT that the Belgrade should be the one and only airport. I´m really sorry but you are having a typical comunistic way of thinkig: you like airports, you like the idea that your city has a airport, but you cannot face the fact that a pretty idea is not enough for making serious buisinnes. From your previous two post it is easy to see that you have no clue on aviation business. - Just go and take one tenth of Germany and tell me how many airports with international flight the one tenth of Germany has? - That would be the size of Serbia. We are lucky if we may have even one serious hub in a country with like 6-7 million inhabitants.Lets just let the Etihad do their job in a professional way.

      I prestani sam sebe da prozivas sto si "iz provincije". To nikoga ne zanima.

      Delete
    13. “For me it is quit obvious taht you live in an irrational world.”

      “I´m really sorry but you are having a typical comunistic way of thinkig: you like airports, you like the idea that your city has a airport, but you cannot face the fact that a pretty idea is not enough for making serious buisinnes.”

      “From your previous two post it is easy to see that you have no clue on aviation business.”

      No my comments on this.
      ________________________________________________

      “We are lucky if we may have even one serious hub in a country with like 6-7 million inhabitants.”

      In my humble opinion, I don’t think it’s possible to have only one airport used for civil aviation in a small ruined country and expect it will work as “a serious hub”.
      It’s not a question of luck but some other things.

      _________________________________________________

      Delete
  34. 138 comments, I am sure other aviation sources from the region are jealous. :)

    Good job ex-Yu!

    ReplyDelete
  35. A couple of points to issues raised:
    LED St. Petersburg - Not allowed to be operated under the current bilateral agreement, which is essentially dictated by Aeroflot.
    Kiev - Smart move. Now that Aerosvit are gone and UIA are consolidating a fragmented market within the new Terminal D at KBP - with the right code share agreement and schedule will provide excellent connections/feed from the regional Ukrainian cities: Donetsk, Simferopol, Odessa (which lost it's Carpatair flight to Timisoara), Dnipropetrovsk and Kharkiv.
    Chisinau KIV - I'd be very surprised if there's any O&D at all and the airport costs there under their byzantine management would kill the economics on such a flight. Moldova is a country with a GDP per capita less than half what it is in Kosovo!

    ReplyDelete
  36. Then we know what Etihad and the Serbian gov have to do next:
    Change the bilateral!
    Btw : aside from all complaints about new routes, but Prague
    could work excellently if CSA and Jat would codeshare on the route!
    CSA is very strong in the Former Sovietland and could connect Belgrad with cities like Rostov,Nizhni Novgorod, Almaty,Samara and much more
    via Prague.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Plus there is O&D market between BEG and PRG alone for at least 3 weekly flights with AT7.

      Delete

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