Tuesday, March 17, 2015

Korean Air eyes Zagreb flights

South Korea and Croatia ink agreement to establish flights

Korean Air is said to be considering launching scheduled services to Zagreb after running charter flights between Seoul and the Croatian capital for several years. As a result, South Korea has initiated the signing of a Bilateral Air Service Agreement with Croatia. The Croatian government has approved the draft agreement, which is set to be signed in the coming period. The Korea Office of Civil Aviation initiated the Service Agreement late last year in order to regulate frequencies, designated airlines of the two signing countries, origin and intermediate points, traffic rights, type of aircraft and tax issues. Last year, Korean Air operated ten charter flights between the two countries during the summer with a Boeing 747-400 deployed on six rotations, while the remaining four flights were performed with a Boeing 777-200.

The Croatian Minister for Tourism, Darko Lorencin, has said that his country wants to set up scheduled flights to South Korea. “We are seeking to establish regular flights to Korea to cater to a surging number of Korean tourists visiting Croatia”, Mr. Lorencin said. He added, “Korea is the most important market for us in Asia”. Last year, more than 252.000 South Koreans visited Croatia, about five times more than in 2012, with Korean tourists ahead of visitors from China and Japan. The country has become hugely popular in South Korea thanks to a reality show. It all started in 2012 with the filming of the show “Romantic”, featuring Koreans in their 20s and 30s visiting Croatia’s hotspots. South Korean TV then produced another hit travel-reality show called “Noonas over flowers” - noonas meaning older sisters - in which several well known Korean actresses backpacked their way through Croatia, having a huge impact on the country’s popularity in South Korea. Ho Il-Sang, a spokesman for Korea’s top travel agency, Hana Tour, says, “Croatia is emerging as one of the most promising travel destinations for South Koreans who visit Europe”.

Korean Air operates flights to a range of European destinations including Prague, Frankfurt, Milan, Rome, Vienna, Paris, Moscow, Madrid and London. Furthermore, the SkyTeam alliance member also has a 44% stake in ČSA Czech Airlines through holding company Hanjin. Croatia has been on the lookout to attract more tourists from far away markets with Hainan Airlines to launch regular charter flights from Chongqing to Zadar on May 1 and SkyGreece Airlines to introduce seasonal charter services from Toronto to Zagreb starting June 22.

86 comments:

  1. Great! Will JAL be flying charters to ZAG this summer too?

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    1. more info/details on JAL please ? will be much appreciated... thnx :)

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    2. JAL is coming in Agust, late August, September and October, only 6 charters so far, not sure if they'll also come in December too, HTZ is talking to JAL regarding December flights, but so far only 6 flights are scheduled.

      JAL rarely announced publicly their charter flights as all flights are organized through local Travel Agency which sends Japanese tourists to Croatia, often

      Last year 174 000 Japanese visitors visited Croatia, and 272 000 South Korean travelers. China had 141 000 (includes Taiwan, HK, Mainland)

      Croatia was visited by around 1 million tourist from Australasia, with Koreans being by far most numerous, however Aussie, Kiwi and Malayan tourists also arrived in great numbers, 121 000 Aussie, 57 000 Malayan and 2700 Kiwi visitors.

      All the figures have been published by HTZ

      http://press.croatia.hr/Documents/3495/Dolasci-i-nocenja-turista-SIJECANJ-PROSINAC-2014-2013.pdf


      2015 is set to be another record braking year, with Zagreb having 11% growth in arrivals and 8% in overnights, Croatia had 7% more visitors in first 2 months of 2015 and 5.5% nights.

      14.5-15 million tourists are expected to visit Croatia this year with revenue of around $10 billion.

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    3. 2014. je letio samo Korean u ZAG? ili i JAL?

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    4. JAL nije latio u 2014. Imali su malo krize u Jal-u.

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    5. u DBV sam vidio 1-2 letova

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  2. French concession seems to be the best thing that ever happened to Zagreb.

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    1. One can also say that all of this would've happened anyways since Croatia joined EU and it's growing as a popular vacation place.

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    2. @SMMarch 17, 2015 at 12:36 PM

      Yes SM, you're totally right, Croatia's EU entry has played well for Croatia, Although visa issue was a problem at first for some nationalities, Russian and Ukrainian visitors for example but Japanese, Koreans normally don't need a visa to enter the EU so it played well for all concerned.

      French management only used to opportunity that presented itself on a plate, sadly old management wouldn't know what to do with such opportunities.


      Just to recap, if Sky Greece flights prove very popular, there is a great chance of Air Canada returning to Zagreb as well, Zagreb was visited by 72000 Canadians in 2014. among the most numerous visitor to Croatia capitol.

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    3. I just hate seeing money making assets like airports going into foreign hands which take profit with them and don’t reinvest it into local economy. To me it’s a clear sign of new age colonialism but what the heck do I know.

      Regarding AC starting flights to ZAG, I’d say yes, but not any time soon. It's interesting what's happening in that leisure market in Canada. You have AirTransat which found niche and started hurting AC on their money making international business (domestic for them is break even proposition at best). That's why AC created Rouge to compete with them. Now, as they transfer more metal from the main carrier, they are going to have to start covering some not yet discovered markets but not before they cover all the main places. In the second or third wave, 2-3 years from now, I wouldn’t be surprised.

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    4. I’d like to also say something about number of Canadian tourists. How I see it (and this is by no means 100% correct, but only my opinion) there are two types of Canadians who visit Croatia: people that like organized trips like cruises and younger generation. Common to both of them is that they tend to visit more than one country (it’s far and still fairly expensive). That’s why I think that 72000 Canadian tourists doesn't really mean much as far as direct flights are concerned.

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    5. so true, when Canadians travel to Europe they always choose to visit a couple of places. Also as SM said they might decide to fly from London both ways but visit places like Rome, Venice, Paris, London,etc..

      Also to disappoint all of you I dont know a single Canadian ( other than me of course) who have visited any of the ex countries nor places like Russia, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania, etc. I just know one originally from Poland guy who visited Czech. In conclusion, Canadians like to travel but cant or if they can will chose countries like France, England, Germany or Italy:
      1) Only 2-3 weeks of vacation in the whole year
      2) They keep away from Eastern Europe as far as possible
      3) If they do decide to travel they will visit a couple of places and will definitely NOT chose to fly from Serbia, Croatia, etc, plus flights from London are cheaper to cross the pond than from Serbia and Croatia. So if ASL ever starts to fly from Canada dont think Canadians will travel with them but instead DIASPORA from Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, ex yu, etc.

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    6. I actually do know a lot of Canadians who visited Balkans. majority of them went to Croatia coast and to some extent Montenegro coast. These are mainly older folks that went there as a part of an organized tour or onboard a cruise ship. I also know lots of young folks that went to Croatia again but also to Belgrade or Novi Sad for Exit. Lots of backpackers from Canada every summer visit Europe, mostly on their own without any major plans.

      I think you are generalizing it a bit. There are tourists from Canada, that's for sure. I’m just saying that the critical number needed for operating a direct flight to serve them even on a seasonal basis is much greater than some place in northern Europe for example. With this being said, if the stats keep creeping up, it’s only question of time when somebody is going to follow SkyGreece on a more permanent basis. If I was betting I would put my money on AirTransat because I think they can do a better job organizing some packages to support the flights.

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    7. Air Transat or Air Canada Rouge are probably the only carriers with a low enough cost base to make money on such low yielding flights.

      I flew Air Transat once, and it was overall a pretty good airline. Food was better than average, in my opinion.

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    8. SM,
      Most of the people I know are in their 20's so maybe that is why I do not know that many people who visited this region. Of course I was not saying there are no tourists, but in general Canadians ( not new immigrants to Canada) are shallow when it comes to travel and I think it would be unfair if you disagree on this one since most of Canadians chose to go to either 1) Cuba/Dominican/Mexico 2) Paris/London/Italy/Spain 3) Thailand
      If I go to Serbia ( I also have Serbian passport) with a Canadian passport will I be considered a tourist or not??? I am trying to prove here that for both Serbia and Croatia a lot of " Canadian tourists" are in fact OUR people, not some Patrick Connors, but Alex Dobrojevich

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    9. Aleksandar,

      AirTransat is very decent in my opinion. Decent network, recently renovated interiors, smartphone/tablet based IFE. I think they were voted #1 leisure airline several times.

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    10. Vaske,

      Couple of 20 something guys I know went to Croatia last year (these are Canadians I'm talking about). So, people are going from here for sure but again this is more afluent more educated crows, not your average Joe for sure. Average Canadian is first of all not likely to take vacation and even if he does he is probably going to Vegas and maybe, just maybe Caribbean all inclusive.

      Your point with counting is very interesting. Question was posed here several times and nobady was ever able to answer it. And is how do tourist organizations in Balkans come up with these numbers. Are theyresult of statistical sampling or it's based on some actual counting. I fly there with a Canadian passport (have both Bosnian and Serbian citizenship but no passports). So, if they are counting people do they consider me as a "Canadian tourist". I sure as hell am not the one and there is tons of cases like that in both Serbia and Croatia.

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    11. @SMMarch 17, 2015 at 4:33 PM

      Just logged on to my computer, I am in Canada btw. Yes Air Canada won't happen over night, it might take few years, certainly nothing before 2017 summer season.

      However in regards to new airport owners, I'd rather have new owners who know what to do, than company going down the drain cause of old fashioned approach to business.

      Old management of Zagreb airport was politically appointed, very inept and incompetent, majority should have been fired for they're incapable individuals with party affiliations.

      Sure it smacks of neo-colonialism of sort, but bare in mind Zagreb airport is 100% owned by their owners, City of Zagreb, Croatian State and Velika Gorica Commune. Current management of the airport is just that, a management that bought a 30 year contract to run the airport and try to make money out of it whilst they're doing it. The buck stops with the government and the city who are the real owners, so in a way what the State did was allow a private firm to rent out one of the state assets for certain period of time, with explicit agreement they'll pay certain amount of money to the state.

      The management is under pressure right now to make a profit and they can't make a profit on low passenger numbers, they need minimum 4.0 million pax to brake even (334 million euro investment over 30 years, add interest payments and pays) and management is under pressure to finish new terminal as humanly fast this is possible and bring in the numbers. They need in short term 4.0 million pax to brake even, they only start to make real money after they pass 5.0 million mark, so there is a pressure to achieve that number as fast this is possible.

      So in a way bit of colonization as you put it ain't bad, in fact in this case it is warranted if it drives the growth and opens up the competition.

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    12. @SMMarch 18, 2015 at 4:32 AM

      When an passenger be it in a car, plane, train or other arrives to Croatia for the first time they're asked to fill in the form, this form is handed on planes, border checks and on trains as travelers are checked for their passports, they hand over the forms at the passport control. All Croatian visa holders need to fill this form by law or the'll be denied entry in to Croatia, for EU and visa waver program countries it is voluntary but it is encouraged to fill the form.

      Anyone who says they're visiting the country for holiday will be added to register or tourist visitors, ex-pats aren't included for obvious reasons, for they're visiting their families and homes.

      This is how HTZ and Croatian Tourism officials know who is entering the country and for what purpose, btw documents are official and issued by MUP, ministarstvo unutarnjih poslova.

      Sadly forms are only issues on western borders at this point for this is where most tourist are coming from and on all flights in to Croatia. Croatian passport holders aren't asked to fill these forms.

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    13. Hmm don't be so sure about it. Last summer i, August I passed Croatian border total of 6 times (twice at ZAG and 4 times by car in Dubrovnik area). Nobady gave me no card to fill in, nothing to submit. My family owns a property in Dubrovnik area so we all go there throughout the year both with Canadian passports and with BiH personal ID. Everything you are saying about this card is news to me my friend.

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    14. HM, they should be handing these on planes they're doing it at the border crossings.


      The only other way they can control and know how many visitors they've had is through travel agencies bookings, but if that were the only way, than Croatia had a lot more tourists, for agencies represent about 50-55% of all arrivals ,example of Spain, France, Italy you can draw the conclusions.

      13.7 million last year if we include examples of people who visit for a day or two or already have arranged their own stay/accommodation is significant in Croatia as you know many along the coast rent their homes/rooms to make extra income in summer months.

      I guess 13.7 million does not include unreported visitors, which means above numbers is a bare minimum number of visitors to Croatia in 2014, number might be higher by at least 20-25%



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  3. OT: This summer JP will start flying from Maribor to London again after 15 long years. Three times a week. Ticket prices will be competitive as the flights will have "low cost character". ;))
    Link: http://www.siol.net/novice/slovenija/2015/03/adria_airways.aspx

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    1. This is great news. Is there now flights on all ex-yu airports or I am wrong ?

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    2. EU accession also played its role, I would say. Beautiful tourist destinations become even more beautiful when they become part of powerful unions of countries - a nice synergistic effect.

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    3. Did that nice synergistic effect also exist during Yugoslavia times?

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    4. Finally, good luck Maribor!

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  4. These are great news. Seems like there will be more spotter-friendly days soon.

    Are there any infos about other Asian airlines coming to Zagreb? There were a lot of comments about this but I don't know which are actually true. And somebody mentioned MD-11F Lufthansa Cargo coming also?

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    1. come on, dont act like INN-NS by saying any other airline starting scheduled flights. Korean will as the article said most likely launch scheduled flights, and then there will be many charters. Over time ZAG will become very spotter friendly but be patient, not like " ZAG will get 4 scheduled lines to Asia" and "3 scheduled lines to North America".

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    2. I didn't even mention scheduled flights, I just asked about charters. Some say JAL/ANA will come to Zagreb this summer with charter flights and I wanted to know if this is true, if someone had actual proof this will happen.

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  5. Wow Zagreb is turning out to be a real intercontinental hub!

    I wonder who might be next.

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    1. Hainan, followed by United, followed by Emirates, followed by Air Canada

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  6. ZAG's case is specific. While it is clear that it won't become an intercontinental hub connecting outbound passengers on a year-long basis (unlike in the pre-1990 Era), on the other hand it stands strong prospects into turning into a fairly large receptive airport for intercontinental flights filled with tourists during the spring, summer and fall periods of the year.
    Most of these will be charter flights, with the exception of several countries/markets such as Korea, Japan, China, Canada and U.S. As of today, those markets represent significant share in total tourist arrivals - so who knows, in a 4 years time, when the numbers further increase, anything is possible.

    During the winter months, ZAG stands a chance to have a year long connection to NYC (Newark od JFK), given the diaspora population base, and that it's the international hub to other areas where descendants of croatians reside (Cleveland, Cinncinnatti, Chicago etc.).

    As for the winter months to the East, Qatar and FlyDubai have pretty much positioned themselves well enough, doubt there's room for another player...

    That's just my two cents on the topic.

    So ZAG's intercontinential future is certainly there, but it'll be different from the times of JAT's year long connections in which both Belgrade and Zagreb collaborated (flights to the West).

    As for the Belgrade - yes it does stand the great chance to have year long connections, but it won't be easy. There are other surrounding nations, whose population is larger, who aspire to do the same thing (Hungary, Bulgaria)... then you have Austrians, Poles, Czechs... etc.

    My honest opinion is that the best thing for ASL is to joing forces and use both BEG and ZAG for its network...in a long run...

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    1. But it does use both Belgrade and Zagreb for its network. Zagreb is used through double daily flights which will see a capacity boost this summer.
      The days of split hubs in ex-YU are long gone. If it failed in bigger countries such as the UK or France then it sure will here.

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    2. Nemjee - thanks for the comment. To some degree, your point is valid. The circumstances have changed for sure. On the other hand, each country/market is specific, so whatever worked or not in the UK or France, doesn't mean it won't here. BEG/ZAG model has worked very well for years. I am not saying that the same model from 1985 should be copy-pasted to 2015., however, the altered form of the model is worth considering again.

      The reason why it is worth reconsidering is because both Beg and Zag present the markets that are culturally and and linguistically similar. Many people would feel more "at home" by using one of the two for this reason. Another reason is that both airports are small enough to provide passengers less stressful/more comfortable airport experience (transfering, boarding etc.).

      Thirdly, ZAG is positioned on the west-side of the region, hence more logical to occassionally use it as a stop-over. With good organization, the stop-over could be managed in under 50 minutes.

      This model would guarantee year-long presence and high frequency for both markets, especially in winter months.

      In this scenario, the prices would not have to be lower than Austrian, Lufthansa, AF nor BA, as the customers would be drawn to use BEG/ZAG for the other (convenience/familiarity related) reasons... Less travelling stress etc.

      If BEG tries to do this on its own - that's fine too, but it's left alone to battle with Vienna, Munich, Frankfurt, Istanbul, Paris, LHR, Zurich etc... as this connection would not present a differentiated/better transfering choice for pax from Croatia (possible the most contributing pax for BEG in the future).

      Not to say that the pax would need to be drawn exclusively by lowering prices. How much lower and for how long - given the Austrian/LH, Swiss, BA, AF etc. etc.



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    3. Petar, days of Yugoslavia are over. ASL would never NEVER I say get permission to fly from North America to ZAG and then BEG. Croatian lobby is pretty strong here in Canada and I know that those people in here would BLOCK the flights trust me on this one. In Canada there are much more "ogorelih ust... and cet..." than in Serbia and Croatia.

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    4. Well, if we speak from a purely theoretical point of view then everything is possible and everything can be justified.

      The main problem is that our region is notoriously low-yielding. The revenue from this Zagreb stop would probably not exceed the costs of it- or at least not to the extent which would justify it in the long run.
      If I am not mistaken Air Serbia would have to open an operational base in Zagreb.

      In my personal opinion, Air Serbia and Croatia Airlines should cooperate in the charter business. JU already has Aviolet which has a neutral name and a summerish livery.

      It could become some sort of mini Thomas Cook in the Balkans, or at least in ex-YU. OU could provide the crew while JU could provide the pilots (at least as long as the Boeings are around) and the aircraft.

      But I think JU is fine as it is in Zagreb. At least for the time being.

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    5. I think it's also worth mentioning that even Aegean is trying to drop their one stop flights via SKG.
      It just doesn't work... Now they have dedicated flights out of SKG and they even have a few birds based there during the summer season.

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    6. I think SOF or Bucharest are MUCH bigger feeding destinations than Zagreb, not even talking about others such as as Athens or Istanbul.

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  7. Great news, go Zagreb!

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  8. Oh no, INN-NS will be in mourning. No doubt, he will show up at some point today and say that he's happy for ZAG, but we all now what he truly thinks. He must be devastated.

    As far as ZAG mgmt is concerned, they seem to talk little and deliver much. I don't think it's a coincidence that another SkyTeam member is looking at expanding to ZAG. It seems like Star Alliance will finally get some competition in the Croatian market. The sooner that happens the better it will be for ZAG and perhaps wider region too. Top marks to the new operator thus far!

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  9. oh come on anonymous - please let's not start with provocations. agan ! For once, I wish the conversation to carry on. I would not want the conversation to get out of hand, to the point at which the ExYU Admin will disable it ...and it frequently happens on ZAG related topics.

    So, puhlease - get a hold of your wild fingers on that keyboard :)

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  10. I was just checking random flights YYZ-ZAG in July (departing Mondays and returning on Saturdays). For some dates, LH/AC seems to be between $CAD 1000 which for the the high season is fairly low. Some dates mid week are around $900.

    YYZ to Balkans is very much Star Alliance territory, so with SkyGreece being the first direct competition on this route it's going to be interesting to see what they are going to do to protect their turf. Regardless of it it's going to be good for people flying.

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    1. Just to add, the same dates for BEG are couple of a hundred more which usually it's not the case. Usual BEG is the cheapest or at lease very similar to ZAG.

      Of course, this is based on a very limited search so take this in for with a grain of salt

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    2. Are prices for SkyGreece Toronto-Zagreb service available and how much are they compared to Star alliance for same dates?

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  11. This is a bit random question but for those charter flights which come to ZAG and any other companies do they take catering in Zagreb or no? Also does Qatar, Etihad or any other company is BEG take catering in Serbia or do they bring it from AUH and DOH? MY view on this is that ASL catering could provide cheap food to forign carriers since food in Serbia is MUCH cheaper than in Europe or North America. Yes I know for Serbian salaries food is expansive, but when somebody from outside comes to Serbia food is like cents. Zagreb is a bit more expensive, but they are also below European prices

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    1. I know for a fact that Etihad uses Air Serbia's catering in Belgrade.
      As far as the others go, they are using Belgrade Airport Catering.

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    2. ^ Is there such a thing as Belgrade Airport Catering? Whenever I traveled I either saw ASL catering or no catering at all.

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    3. Not really true EY72 has almost everything from AUH, even drinks, even water.

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    4. Nope... not true. Etihad gets most of its catering from BEG just that their requirements are specific.
      However, they still use BEG airport cleaners in stead of the Air Serbia ones. No idea why.

      As far as BEG catering goes, their trucks are slightly different, they are white with some writings on them.

      One thing that Etihad takes exclusively from AUH are blankets and pillows. Once the aircraft is cleaned they are immediately placed in the 51 tail compartment.

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    5. So is there any other company which takes catering in BEG?

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  12. Long haul routes this year:

    3 Zagreb:
    - Korean Seoul
    - ANA Tokio
    - SkyGreece Toronto

    1 Ljubljana
    - Korean Seoul

    1 Zadar
    - Hainan

    Will there be any long-haul in near future to Belgrade, Split, Dubrovnik or Skopje? Any information or plans?

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    1. DBV used to have JAL in summer time, same as LJU. In regard to 2015 I don't know.

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    2. not confirmed yet, but ZAG might get NYC, CHI and PVG this year as well, negotiations going on

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  13. OT: New ASL boarding music:
    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1605682882979142&set=vb.1406571032890329&type=2&theater

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    1. Pheww...Howling is gone!

      (I think actually decent attempt!)

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    2. I liked Bilja Krstic very much, this is so unrecognizable...
      Like the frula parts only

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  14. Same as this year's Eurovision entry... no originality... plain and boring... but yes funeral screams are at least gone...

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  15. Mozda vam jednom KE posalje umesto 744 748 .
    Ako to bude bila redovna linija najverovatnije ce leteti sa A332 ko za VIE.
    INN-NS

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  16. To see this has been initiated from the Korean side is very promising. Also for what it is worth the American ambassador has called for direct flight between the USA and Croatia.
    Again, not brought up by Croatia makes this somewhat more of a possibility that we could soon see at least some direct charter flight from the USA to Croatia soon.

    http://www.croatiaweek.com/us-ambassador-to-croatia-time-for-direct-flights-between-the-united-states-and-croatia/

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    1. Great news for Croatia! Did American ambassador in Serbia announce similar support for direct flights between USA and Serbia?

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    2. I think once he suggested a long time ago, but the US ambassador in Serbia is a big boob

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    3. Not only is that insulting, it also does not reflect on US support for positive changes in Serbia. There is no doubt direct flight to the US would be a massive positive step for Serbia US relations, so it makes sense they would support it.

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  17. OT: Već neko vrijeme postoji informacija (ovo je neprovjereni podatak s drugog foruma) kako s novim terminalom u Zagreb stiže Emirates. Vjerujem da bi, ako je to istina, mogli doći u Beograd čak i prije (neovisno o Zagrebu, vjerujem i da hoće iduće godine)!

    Za letove iz Južne Koreje, izvrsno!

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    1. this is highly unlikely, since emirates doesn't have smaller aircraft that QR and EY have (A320 family), and filling +250 seats would be very difficult with destination like ZAG.
      Even QR has difficulty to fill 5 direct flights per week and are struggling with LF.
      And don't forget that FlyDubai started flying to ZAG, which will increase frequency if demand would be high.

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    2. Since FZ started DXB and given small market size, I sincerely doubt you will see EK in ZAG (or anywhere else in ex YU) soon, There are certainly cities with higher priorities and potential for wide body service, like OTP for instance. QR and TK fill the needs to the East along with FZ and Far East charter services for now.

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    3. And, in my opinion, ZAG demand will need some time to absorb new capacity given by QR and FZ. TK is also still struggling to absorb its second daily. So sending regular wide body from Middle East is not likely. Same goes for BEG + the fact that no city in ex YU has any decent business class demand to cover such costs. Even economy is sold cheap - and nothing up front to compensate that.

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    4. anonymous at 9:07, sure. valid argument. to some extent. however, you forgot one small detail which differentiates Croatia from the rest of the ExYugo region. more than 13 mil people visit Croatia, a number that will only increase. more and more :)

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    5. I am aware of that. However small number uses airports (at least long haul) and it is rather concentrated within May until September plus diversified over 5-6 airports. So, ZAG alone (again, in my opinion) still doesn't have the needed strength, Nor has any airport in ex YU. At least not for commercially viable year round service.

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    6. Guys calm down, just like us Serbs when ASL thing was announced were all hype and "high" now its Croats since they are getting Korean, plus Skygreece, plus JAL so let them be happy and "high" just like we were. No hate intended neighbors, good luck

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    7. Okay, so it is our turn for a couple of months! :) We just have to find our own INN-NS to pump it up on daily basis!!
      Jokes aside; dreaming is nice, but realities are different,

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    8. @7:35
      'QR has difficulties in ZAG and struggling with LF', ??? Hahahaha, you are probably the one who wrote here some time ago that QR would discontinue ZAG just months after beginning of operations, as ZAG has no potential and blablabla. And now when ZAG has 5 instead 3,5 flights (half of former joint ZAG/BUD capacity), and new routes from Korea and China are expected, and Toronto started, and probably some US destination to start soon, you still come out with false information about bad LF and problems of QR in ZAG. Well, sorry to disappoint you, but there are no such problems at all, and yes, EK was in talks with former ZAG management, and is in talks with the new one, and EK and FZ have different markets and there are space for both in ZAG, the same as in, for example PRG, which has both FZ and EK.

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    9. ^ there were never talks with EK, dont make up stuff. Also Toronto flights did no start yet, and also those flights are just during summer. QR is doing OK in Zagreb, but dont be like INN-NS and say "all routes to and from ZAG are doing great and Qatar is doing eceptional'.

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    10. Prague has 11 mil passengers annually, you are really comparing it with zagreb? And you are saying they are talking for more than 2 years? Lot of talking, and no result.

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    11. Like BEG in Serbia, PRG is practically the only airport in Czech R. (there are couple more but their numbers are truly irrelevant). Within that maths, Croatia with 7 million and Czech R. with 11 is not that big difference. Most of the passengers for both cities, If you add to that double-digit growth of tourists from the Australasia to Croatia year by year, it's nothing strange that QR has very good results, that KE is considering transferring charter to scheduled, and that EK will not remain out of the game. Zivi bili pa videli! Cheers!

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    12. just my 2 cts: a EK triangle route could be viable in summer time, e.g. DXB-BEG-ZAG-DXB 3/7, DXB-ZAG-BEG-DXB 4/7.
      a triangle route in eastern europe should be no problem for DXB hub operation,
      same as triangle routes in ex-YU @ BEG hub.

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    13. Just to add, someone here mentioned Emirates and Zagreb, sorry but from what I know and have been in toich with Zagreb's new management as my firm did some architectural work for them on this and other projects in the past, i can tell you they had no talks with Emirates, from ME region only FlyDubia and Qatar have so far showed interest for Zagreb. FlyDubia did come as a surprise for all concerned for they were never in talks early on. Emirates however did talk to the old management and flights would have been in conjunction with Vienna or Amsterdam flights. But on both occasions OU objected and nothing happened.

      Emirates won't fly to Zagreb only, they'll need Zagreb as a feed in and with arrival or KLM, Brussels air and Vienna being covered by Austrian, i can't see them coming to Zagreb any time soon. Prague might be an alternative for Czech Airlines plan to come to Zagreb later this year so i really don't see Emirates coming to Zagreb any time soon.

      Perhaps in 2017 but only as a feed in on Budapest flights perhaps, like Qatar did originally.

      Most intercontinental passengers from Aussie and Kiwii lands come via Singapore and Doha, not Dubai, surprisingly enough.

      Lufthansa, British Air and Air France being responsible for 85%, Qatar is changing this by a bit, but not much, Air France, BA and Lufthansa with double daily make things very difficult for others, plus their own hubs in Frankfurt, Paris/Amsterdam, London literally make things impossible for other carriers.

      FlyDubai is barely making any dent, well they just started flights to Zagreb so its early days, but with 3 weekly flights to Zagreb they'll hardly make a massive impact on the big 3, after all most tourist that come to Croatia from Australia, NZ come with these 3 carriers who are truly global carriers with direct links to Australia via Singapore or direct flights.






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    14. "Most intercontinental passengers from Aussie and Kiwii lands come via Singapore and Doha, not Dubai, surprisingly enough."

      Doha, huh? You must something we don't. Qatar does not fly to Sydney and New Zealand; Qantas and Air New Zealand do not fly to Doha at all. Air NZ codeshares with Etihad, Qantas with Emirates. You got it all wrong, smarty pants!

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  18. OT: two days ago BEG airport director on this blog was quoted saying they would overhaul the runway in 2016 AND 2017. Why would you need to span 2 calendar years for that, it's not likely work will start in Dec and end in Jan? They can't work in winter weather, and even without runway closure they don't need to work in both years, so what was that statement for?!?

    Today in Kurir he said work would be self financed without other loans, with about 2BRSD (15-16MEUR) available. One thing you do when you have certain growth - you get a loan to grow even faster so you can collect more revenue faster! Not getting a loan means overhaul and expansion will be at a very slow pace (as 15MEUR won't be enough to overhaul A gates and buy new airbridges let alone other expansion), limiting passenger growth and limiting Air Serbia!

    Last year one of the (lady) ministers said they were caught by surprise by huge growth at the airport so they need to plan expansion. But in fact they didn't expand a thing since last summer and obviously won't be able to finish any useful expansion before 2015 summer peak! What excuse do you have now? If Air Serbia was congested and constrained last summer at BEG, you can only imagine chaos this summer with at least few hundred thousand more passengers during Jul and Aug!

    As if Govt and Airport management are actively trying to make things worse for Air Serbia and not the other way around! They need new prof mgmt to stop talking nonsense and start delivering results!

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  19. OT: Officially, Adria will start fly from Maribor on three new destinations. One of them will be London, others are still unknown.

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    Replies
    1. Yes, we heard it already! Hopefully next godforsaken EU-village Adria will fly to is Monchengladbach so they might give B&H some competition there.

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    2. They may fly one-way as well.

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  20. OT: YYZ-ZAG-ATH is loaded in the GDS:
    GW425 ATH1020 – 1110ZAG1210 – 1555YYZ 763 3
    GW426 YYZ2355 – 1525+1ZAG1645+1 – 1915+1ATH 763 2

    http://airlineroute.net/2015/03/18/gw-s15update1/

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    Replies
    1. They reported it yesterday
      http://exyuaviation.blogspot.com/p/skygreece-schedules-toronto-zagreb.html

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    2. that was the old schedule

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  21. And still no foreign airline wants to launch long hawl flights to Belgrade?

    ReplyDelete

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