Thursday, August 25, 2016

Chinese carriers eye EX-YU market


Zagreb and Belgrade are to be linked with Beijing next year as demand for air travel to and from China continues to grow. In addition, Ljubljana is also seeking flights to the country. Beijing Capital Airlines, which recently received clearance from local regulators to launch services to Zagreb next year has confirmed to EX-YU Aviation News its intent to follow through with its plans. The carrier says that while flights will primarily cater for tourists, tickets will be available to individual travellers as well. The service, which will run twice per week, will launch in June with its 222-seat Airbus A330-200 jet. Beijing Capital Airlines, a subsidiary of Hainan Airlines, flies an all-Airbus fleet of 67 aircraft from its core bases in Beijing, Guangzhou, Shenyang, Xi’an and Hangzhou to cities across China and international destinations in Asia, Europe and North America. “BCA obtained IOSA accreditation this May and officially became an IATA member”, Beijing Capital Airlines CEO, Xu Jun, said last week. In 2015, over 203.000 Chinese tourists visited Croatia with 269.000 overnight stays registered. The figures represent a 36% increase in arrivals and 37% in overnights. This year over 300.000 visitors from China are expected to arrive in Croatia.

Flights between Beijing and Belgrade are set to begin next year as well after the Serbian government entered into talks with a yet-to-be named Chinese carrier over the matter last month. The service is expected to be introduced before flights between Beijing and Zagreb are launched. Chinese airlines must first be granted approval from the Civil Aviation Administration of China to commence a particular route. Whether any carrier lodged an application during the third quarter of this year to run services to the Serbian capital in 2017 won't be made public until mid-October. The European Travel Commission, which is forecasting a 7.4% increase of Chinese arrival numbers to Europe this year, has identified Serbia as a growing market for Chinese tourists, as they look to travel to more ‘novel’ locations. However, only 14.200 Chinese holiday makers visited the country last year.

Ljubljana Jože Pučnik Airport is also seeking to establish a direct air link to Beijing. Both the Chinese Embassy in Slovenia and the Slovenian government have begun procedures for the flights to be launched. Ljubljana Airport's Head of Airline Management, Janez Krašnja, recently said that the airport is supporting the Embassy's efforts, noting that intercontinental flights would give it a competitive advantage in the region. He expressed hope that a Chinese carrier could be persuaded to launch the service. In May, the Slovenian Minister for Economic Development and Technology, Zdravko Počivalšek, discussed the possibility of introducing flights between the two capital cities, with Ljubljana likely to be used a stopover en route to another European destination such as Prague. Slovenia welcomed 37.796 Chinese tourists in 2015.

101 comments:

  1. In my opinion Beijing - Zagreb can work during this summer with 100% LF but this will not be the case during the winter. As far as I understand BCA will fly year round. The aircraft will also have business class meaning that they expect to have premium travellers as well.

    Beijing - Belgrade obviously won't be targeted at tourists although I feel this could only work by linking it with another city - Budapest for example.

    The Slovenians have the right idea to be used as a stopover to another destination in central Europe but with Zagreb getting flights the chances of them receiving their own service have gone down significantly.

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    1. Sorry, but why are you saying that Belgrade would "obviously" be not targeted for tourists? Belgarde is an important business centre in the region, but I would not discard tourism potential. The article clearly states that Serbia is one of the quickest growing European markets for Chinese tourists.

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    2. Sorry I did not express myself particularly well. I meant that Belgrade will probably cater more for business passengers while Zagreb would cater more for holiday travel.

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    3. True, Ljubljana's chances are quite small now to get flights.

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  2. I hope Croatia Airlines uses these new flights to its advantage and manages to arrange some codeshare deal. It would then be able to shuttle Chinese passengers to places like Dubrovnik and Split.

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    1. Maybe in 5 years Kucko have some delay always

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    2. Ok, I am usually critcal to the mostly stupid and pointless LH bashing by some users on this blog.
      But in this case, even I must admit that I do not think LH would like OU to arrange such codeshare and they actually might want to try to influence them.
      Having said this, OU is not owned by LH or any of its affiliates. Not even to 0,1%. That is why I write "try to".

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    3. LH don't need to influence OU at all. It is their membership of Star Alliance which will stop them from codesharing with a long haul carrier such as this Chinese one.

      The rule within Star is that no more than 5% of an airline's ASKs can be on codeshare with an airline outside of the Star Alliance.

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  3. I wonder which airline the government is talking to for PEK-BEG route.

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  4. If there were only just above 14,000 people travelling from China to BEG, then I don't see the potential of this route.

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    1. I am sure that if they launch BEG then they will also code-share with JU. BEG could become their gateway to the Balkan region.

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    2. In that case Air China comes to mind as he likeliest candidate to fly this route.

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    3. I still wonder if there is anyone flying the JU/CA flight BEG-VIE-PEK :D

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    4. Haha probably yes, why fly for €600 via SVO when you can fly on CA via VIE for €1.100.

      The only 'issue' with CA is that its onboard product is rather bad.

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    5. I believe Serbian officials need to use JU flights wherever they fly and as long as Serbian tax payers pay for it, why not?

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    6. @NemjeeAugust 25, 2016 at 9:20 AM

      If they have direct link to Zagreb why would they need to code-share Belgrade for ex-YU ?

      I can see working in OU on Croatian destinations, not sure many Chinese fly to rest of the Ex-Yu, Zagreb and Croatia host around 300 000+ Chinese visitors, projection is 500 000 in 2017, 70-80 000 Chinese visit Slovenia and some more adventurous Chinese visitors visit the rest of the region.

      As I see it, Chinese see the potential of Croatia and are jumping in, if Vucic that lie idiot had any serious airline in the wing he'd be screaming about it as he did about every other thing.

      Anyhow, I can see Air Serbia flying to Beijing, perhaps this might be lucrative option for Air Serbia, expand in to Asian markets. Who knows.

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    7. What is interesting is the extent to the AC/JU interline. A quick search found flights with AC/JU via VIE, FRA, CDG, ARN, LHR, IST. However, the JU tickets to PEK with AC are absolutely expensive.

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    8. The thing is that flights to BEG and ZAG would be of a totally different nature. Zagreb would be there to cater for the needs of Chinese tourists while Belgrade would be launched so as to enable connections for Chinese passengers heading to the Balkans and to places like Istanbul, Larnaca, Tel Aviv or Beirut.

      In other words, Belgrade has more long-lasting potential simply because the Chinese carrier will cooperate with a local airline that actually has a regional network.

      Even if a Chinese carrier decides to code-share with OU, their options would be limited at best. Even by offering flights to the coast isn't enough to make this route viable on a year-round basis.

      If the PEK flight arrives to BEG at 11.00 and departs at 18.00 then it could get a lot of feed.

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    9. Why they will want to travel to Beirut, Istanbul, Larnaca or Tel Aviv via BEG and not directly? all of these cities are major tourist destinations and have direct links.

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  5. Let's just hope this doesn't turn out like the planned Zadar flights last year.

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    1. I doubt it. They didn't even apply for a license last year. That entire story was hatched by ZAD airport management. The airline was never even interested.

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  6. If somebody can have flights to China in the region it's Croatia, Bulgaria and Romania. Croatia and Bulgaria are major tourist destinations. Romania is the main economical destination in the region. I really don't see Serbia fitting into this. Sorry to say it. Probably my comment will be deleted now...

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    1. None of the countries you mentioned have a strong national carrier that can offer connections to the region. It's easier to fly to BEG and use JU's regional network than to have one or two weekly flight to OTP, ZAG or anywhere in Bulgaria.

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    2. Probably you should check is something wrong with you/dont get me wrong but Serbia had connection with China when Sofia was let me not finish this sentence..

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    3. Your comment is condescending, but no matter. We've heard it all before from your side of the curtain.

      Belgrade airport is developing into a regional hub that will, within few years, be a key funnel for all these "billions" of tourists that enjoy your coast.

      And, while there, there's no reason why all of them wouldn't want to visit the biggest and most developed ex-YU city, and other amazing destinations that Serbia has to offer. Assuming that they don't arrive with ignorance and prejudice, such as exhibited in your comment.

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    4. Calm it down guys. I think both ZAG and BEG can have flights to China and essentially I think both have very different markets.

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    5. Anon 9:42,

      I am from Serbia and I can only say that your own ignorance and biases beat those of ignorant Croatian nationalists in the similar way Usain Bolt beats his competition.

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    6. I don't understand any of the comments in this thread. Both cities are getting flights to Beijing next year so what's the point of this discussion.

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    7. It looks like not both of them will have the flights. And that's where the jealousy starts.

      The most important detail in this article lies somewhere else. It's an airline making the statement for a route project in terms of ZAG, but it is the governments/embassies commenting on a route project in LJU and BEG examples.

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    8. Unbelievable how some people get offended in this region by someone just having a different view. Its a bit sad actually.

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    9. Comparing the tourism in Serbia and Croatia is like comparing Lada to Mercedes. Croatia is a MAJOR European tourist destination and it's more than natural to have higher demand than Serbia. I don't understand where the problem lays with you, people! Get real!

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    10. Croatia is just as major as Bulgaria, it's a 'mid-size' tourist destination, Greece on the other hand is another league. Croatia and Montenegro belong to the same league.

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    11. Major is faaaaar to strong word.

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    12. How come Croatia and Montenegro belong to the same league? Croatia is also much bigger tourist destination than Bulgaria!

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    13. Same kind of tourist offer.

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    14. Same kind of tourist offers? What about the number of tourists?

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    15. Doesn't matter. It's the same kind of tourists except DBV.

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    16. Silly people, trolls have taken over this discussion.

      1.st the size of some country as a tourist destination isn't really important here, 15 million visitors visit Croatia, 26 million visit Greece (well 6 million are Greeks). http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/1046272/problepseis-gia-neo-rekor-ston-tourismo-to-2016

      Bulgaria had 11 million tourist in 2015, however 6 million of these came from Romania, Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Turkey and Russia. 1.7 million came from
      Western Europe and Poland, and 3 million from Bulgaria.


      However these stats are Totally irrelevant with the article. What is relevant that an Chinese airline has shown interest in coming to Zagreb, and they're keen to start flying to Zagreb from mid 2017 twice weekly, I think this article is about this, not how big some tourism industry is.

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    17. +1

      @Anonymous 6:52

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    18. How many are local tourists in Croatia? Also, we've seen that around 60% are paradajz tourists so no need to get excited.

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    19. @AnonymousAugust 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM

      1.4 million are local tourist and Croatian tourist spend more than most foreign, however Croats own homes on seaside so they're not included in this number either.

      Well most of Croatian tourist come from Germany, France, UK, Japan, Netherlands, Italy, Slovenia, Austria. If these are paradajz tourist, I'd like some more.

      Not sure what paradajz tourist are in fact, are they Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Russian and Czech tourist ?


      Croatia isn't what it used to be back in the 90s or early 2000s, now it is far cheaper to eat out than actually to bring your own veggies and salami along.

      If you're referring to camping tourist, sure they're here to camp out bring their own food, why not, I'd love to do that some time.

      In 2015 Croatia earned €8.1 billion from Tourism, I guess it must have sold many paradajz to earn that much money ;)


      FYI on the coast, a kilo of paradajz is around 8-15kn depending how fresh and where you buy them, in Zagreb it is bit cheaper https://www.konzum.hr/Vrijeme-je-za-rostilj/Sve-za-rostilj/Povrce-bez-kojeg-nema-rostilja/Rajcica-1kg

      You can have a decent meal for around 40-50kn in a restaurant. There you go.

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    20. Everyone, please let me educate you in regards to Croatia's tourism. Out of 15.5 mil tourists that are expected this year, there will be 14 foreign tourists. In Greece, there are around 20 mil foreign tourists. What are the comparative sizes of those two countries ?
      Croatia is by no means a world's powerhouse in tourism, but is surely becoming one of the most appealing...it does not have exclusivity, yet the high-end is developing very well - you have dozens of destinations within Croatia that are developing well (Lošinj, Rovinj, Poreč, Zadar, Dubrovnik, Split, Zagreb...). On the other hand, Croatia is by no means a "cheap" destination. 1 x overnight stay in a 4 star hotel room in Croatia (peak summer) is no less than 200 euros. 3-star hotels, 150 euros... multiply that by an average 7 day stay... well, you get the idea - it's by no means comparable to the mass 400 Euro flight+ hotel arrangements that you often find in Turkey, Egypet and/or Tunisia, even Greece. There are clearly other motives and reasons why people are willing to pay this money to stay in Croatia.
      Croatia's challenge is in the fact that around 50% of all the capacity is small apartments/apart hotels, which does not help the seasonality issue. On the other hand, our citizens live off tourism (make amazing money), while in Greece that some of you point out here, you have large hotel chains and corporations dominating - the money goes to them...
      In the end, Croatia will improve it's structural accommodation anatomy, but the way it has been so far has been working very well...
      Croatia's tourism growth rate for years has been double the average growth rate in European and/or world tourism. During the Euro crisis 2009-2013, Croatia's tourism has been growing by 4 to 5% annually (the rest of Europe 2%), while within last 2 years it's been growing 7 to 9% (the rest of Europe 5%).

      14 mil foreign tourists, 80 mil overnights at least...

      Croatia can school the rest of the Yugo and wider region when it comes to tourism... Even Zagreb is the most visited city in Ex Yu. With the new terminal, it will kill the competition.

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    21. Hhahaha yes because the old terminal was what was really stopping all those tourists from visiting Zagreb. Get real.

      And Croatia schooling others in the region? Like who exactly? Turkey? Austria? Hungary? Greece?! LOL

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    22. @anonymous 10:15PM, to be precise: the old terminal has been slowing down the traffic growth. 2 x a319 in the arrival often equaled passengers "falling out of the building" while at the passport control.

      In regards to schooling...the region to whom this applies to is ExYu, Bulgaria, Hungary... not Austria, given it's truly one of the world's top destinations. Europe hosts most of the worldly tourism destinations, so it's clear that the competition here in Europe is most concentrated...
      On the other hand, both Austria and Greece had got the upper hand during the period od 1990-2005 when Croatia was virtually doing nothing but was rather re-building from the war and getting indebted building higways etc... Croatia has just started to follow through a newly formed tourism strategy following it with numerous infrastructural projects... so we are only starting ...
      Just for comparison, so that you get the idea of where Croatia could have been, had the war not been instigated...

      1986: 10,5 arrivals; 68 mil overnight stays
      Arrivals had been surpased in 2006. and the overnight stays in 2014.

      So yes, the huge setback only shows what potential is there to reach.

      Croatia is easily accessible by car, and the airports are finally being re-built after the original designs from 1960s...

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    23. All right petar please stop you are getting so boring, I wish croatia becomes the new Spain! Is that ok for you? Just please stop.

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    24. Anonymous 1123pm, who I'm assuming is the same person as anonymous 1015pm.
      As soon as you're presented with facts and what you don't want to hear it becomes boring to you?

      I think you are the one who is boring and annoying so please stop!

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    25. Nothing to do with the facts. It's just hilarious that when people present HR as something more than it is. It's just a glorified Bulgaria with a mediocre tourist offer. Croatia might have a beautiful coast but it's light years away from offering the same experience as Greece, Turkey or even Spain. There is still much to do.

      So Croatia has 14 million tourists but DBV and SPU as the country's two main airports barely handle 4 million passengers or as much as Rhodes.

      Over 60% of tourists in HR are those who are heading there because they can take a bus or drive to save up on the costs.

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    26. As for putting Hungary in the same category, don't be hilarious. Hungary is miles away and Budapest is incomparably more elegant and beautiful than Zagreb. They are playing in different leagues.

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    27. Actually, was playing with you all along.
      Such fun!

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  7. Where in Bulgaria? To your low cost airlibe heaven Sofia ? Get real!

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    1. Probably some people never went further that Nis.

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  8. They will make a nice addition to the new terminal in ZAG.

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  9. Sorry for the small OT just an update on ECA. They did not start flights today like they announced they will and their AOC is still suspended.

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    1. It's ironic that several pages of the Air Serbia Elevate August edition are dedicated to ECA.

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    2. ECA delayed the start by 1 day.

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    3. I was going to ask if ECA has their AOC yet..., smells like a bit of arrogance or (understandably) desperation by ECA to get flying again but typical of regulators, making them sweat it out a bit before allowing them to fly in the hope of teaching them a lesson.

      I hope they get flying again asap but I also hope that the CCAA make sure that their planes are airworthy and that aircraft safety related paperwork is in order too!

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    4. Do we know what happened here?

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    5. @Q400August 25, 2016 at 12:23 PM

      AOCs aren't given and taken as easily as you think, once AOC is taken it takes ages for an airline to get it back and when they do get it back they'll need to comply with every requirement and some more. In fact is quite feasible for CAA inspector to camp out at ECAs HQ to make sure they comply with every rule in the book and enforce it.

      So if ECA can afford that, sure they'll start flying sometimes in October, if not, Adio amore!

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  10. Whatever happened to the possibility of Air Serbia flying to Beijing?

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    1. I'm a bit surprised that they a looking for a Chinese carrier too and not leaving it for Air Serbia.

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    2. @Q400August 25, 2016 at 12:30 PM

      Vucic doesn't know what he wants, from what I see. he's arrogant, self obsessed sociopath like most politicians.


      To trust a politician with anything is to risk a limb, a life and a family.

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  11. A little off topic but today I flew from Athens to Belgrade with Aegean. Load factor was 100% and had a lot of transfer pax (especially from Egypt). Also my first time in Belgrade! =)

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    1. Do you mean pax from Egypt transferring to BEG via ATH? So BEG is their final destination or they use it as 2nd stop? In both cases it sounds interesting.

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    2. It was pax from Egypt transferring to BEG via ATH using Aegean. BEG seemed to be their final destination (I took a quick look at their tickets as they were boarding). But they also could have had another connection on a separate ticket. You never know! I was also surprised how packed the flight was.

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    3. Welcome my friend and enjoy your staying! I certainly believe the load factor by my own experience, Aegean's customer service is at least two levels up than the other region's airlines.

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    4. No wonder Aegean is keeping BEG as a daily destination this winter. The only issue is that they lack evening flights which will connect onto their midnight wave. However, CAI-ATH is also served by Egyptair so they can compensate.

      I wonder if having BEG as double daily or ten weekly on the Q400 would make more sense. Given that OA got 2 Atr-42s maybe they will be more flexible with their Dash fleet.

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    5. JU should definitely take out of the drawer the old plan of opening Cairo.

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    6. &NemjeeAugust 25, 2016 at 11:56 AM
      "No wonder Aegean is keeping BEG as a daily destination this winter."...

      Aegean will fly from Athens to Belgrade only four times weekly during winter 16/17, introducing 5th weekly flight since the beginning of March.

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    7. Anon 1:18 PM you are totally wrong, it's daily check out A3 850 from flightmapper.net.

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    8. AnonymousAugust 25, 2016 at 11:52 AM
      Service on Aegean is horrendous on par with low-cost carriers so i really don't know what are you talking about.

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    9. A bunch of Egyptians are flying a foreign airline off BEG. Must be a single arranged group.

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    10. &AnonymousAugust 25, 2016 at 1:37 PM

      Please, check aegeanair.com. In fact, Aegean had planned daily service ATH-BEG during W16 but changed the schedule later on.

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    11. AEROLOGIC you are already a well-known Airserbia fanatic so I will not answer in whatever you say.

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    12. Recently when I checked for flights they were daily. I see that they changed it to four weekly with two morning and two evening flights.

      Also, he didn't refer to Aegean's onboard product but its customer service. Also, Aegean can't be on par with lowcost carriers when it doesn't charge for food and drinks and it has a (modest) premium product.

      What Aegean has is a fantastic marketing department and a growing presence in Europe and beyond.

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    13. I booked a ticket with Aegean, from Belgrade to Corfu for next month, and noticed that I have to pay extra for my checked in luggage. Find this annoying, especially since the ticket cost just under 200 euros!

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    14. The charge for luggage was introduced at a time when lowcost carriers invaded the market. In my opinion, charging for luggage is ok for O&D but not for transfers.

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  12. OT
    http://balkans.aljazeera.net/video/kontekst-aviosaobracaj-regije
    Mr. Purger, you look like Prosinecki :)

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    1. :-)
      When I was younger, once in Dinamo stadium (where I work as freelancer for last 23 years) Ćiro Blažević toot I was Robert Prosinečki,and ask me what an earth I am doing in field, not in dressing room.

      We were same 20 years ago. Smile a lot of tome on that. :-)

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  13. Znaci turisti bi prenocili u Zagrebu i kidavela dalje. Jak turizam.

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    1. Da, to je danas trend u turizmu. Sto prije to shvatite to ćete prije uči u trendove i umjesto Bosanaca, Crnogoraca, Makedonaca... imali bi Koreance, Engleze, Španjolce, Japance, Kanađane, Amerikance... A taj turist koji prosječno ostane u Zagrebu 3 dana u to vrijeme potroši 10 puta više nego onaj koji dođe u Beograd opijati se 7 dana. Pogledati malo brojke prihoda od turizma u Zagrebu, pa onda dalje diskutirati.

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    2. @anon 11:28PM
      +1

      @anon 11:38AM
      Jelly much? Much too much.

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  14. A Serbian passanger flying with Aeroflot between Moscow and Beijing died on board today :/
    http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2016&mm=08&dd=25&nav_category=78&nav_id=1169363

    Aeroflot is the main airline used for flights between Belgrade and Beijing.

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  15. Connection with Zagreb for the summer schedule only (end March - end October) will work 100% sure.
    All the rest I don't think so.

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  16. Quick way off topic:

    What do you all think of the new airliners.net layout? I find it very annoying and am finding that I'musing it a lot less.

    I was wondering in anyone liked it.

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    1. On one thing i'll agree with you, that design is horrendous and i stopped visiting afterwards. Luckily, Ex-Yu reverted to its original design.

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    2. thank god ex yu is using the same format as before. Change is not always good.

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    3. I have no clue what for they did it, that design was legendary. Stupid era we live in.

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    4. they claim they did it for the mobile users. What they disregarded were the computer users. They gained mobile users but lost the computer ones

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    5. Was it possible to keep the both versions?!! One (old) for PC and the rest for the mobile ones?

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  17. OT...Does anyone here on the forum know the e mail address of JU CEO ; Sales manager and Marketing manager? I tried sending several times a suggestion comment using the online link but there is no action / reaction at all.
    I want to propose to them to enable multi class selection during online booking to allow a person to fly one way economy and the other way in business class. Result will be more business pax and more $ ...I want to purchase such ticket myself but current system is not allowing this simple action. I am amazed that no one reacts although I raised that point several times using that link that obviously no one reads....so let's try the top guys if anyone knows their e mail contacts. Previously, during JAT times all sector managers were listed on the site and they had their respective contacts. Today after globalization took over try to get a needed contact ... no way even to find a site administrator not to mention a manager! ....

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    1. My advice is - waste of time! With their current res sys what you want to do cannot be done automatically, therefore cannot be included in their OBE. You'd have to ring their call centre and hope to talk to someone who might know how to get the lowest combination.

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  18. Air China uspostavlja liniju Peking - Varšava. Bit će zanimljivo jer na toj linij već leti LOT. Peking Airport je na svojoj wiki stranici u tablici airlines and destinations već dodao Zagreb kod Beijing Capital Airlinesa s početkom letenja June 2017.

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    1. znas li ti sta znaci "wiki" uopste ?

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    2. Hehe, " na svojoj wiki stanici" ;)

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    3. Rumour has it that Air China will be investing in Lot.

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  19. Najbolja opcija bi svakako bila CA ili ASL za BEG .
    INN-NS

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