Thursday, April 12, 2018

Adria delays Saab deployment


Adria Airways has again delayed the introduction Saab 2000 aircraft to its fleet after removing the type from its schedules until the third quarter. The fifty-seat turboprop was initially to enter service in March, which was later pushed back to June. However, the aircraft have now been completely removed from Adria's network until September. The Slovenian carrier was to utilise the Saabs on its recently launched and upcoming new routes from Ljubljana to Sofia, Geneva, Bucharest, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Dubrovnik and Brač. All of these services are now operating with a mix of Bombardier CRJ700 and CRJ900 aircraft, which make up the bulk of the airline's fleet.

Adria planned to source six Saab 2000s from its former subsidiary Darwin Airline, which declared bankruptcy in December of last year. The aircraft, some of which are in Ljubljana, have been grounded since the carrier's demise. In addition to being deployed on new routes, the turboprops were also to be utilised on a number of regional services, including Podgorica and Skopje. The Slovenian carrier has previously advertised for Saab crew positions and invited former Darwin cabin crew members to apply for jobs through a Swiss-based aviation employment agency, in order to be assigned onto Adria-operated flights from places such as Geneva, Milan and Trieste on the Saab 2000s. This is despite the fact that, with exception to Geneva, the airline does not maintain operations to the other two cities.

Last month, Adria's CEO, Holger Kowarsch, said the airline would add three aircraft to its fleet this year. Although he did not specify the types, the airline has so far introduced one leased CRJ900 (registered S5-AFB), with a second (registered S5-AFC) expected to enter revenue service next month. Due to wet-leasing commitments for its jets with other airlines, the Slovenian carrier has been forced to lease aircraft itself in order to sustain its new route launches without the Saab turboprops. In a recent statement, Mr Kowarsch said, "We are currently training many new pilots and cabin crew. In the coming months, we will add three new aircraft to the fleet. We search for pilots all over Europe. We are still growing, and with the inclusion of new aircraft and routes we will continue to grow".

120 comments:

  1. So more wet leased Fokkers

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    1. People have started complaining about this. There was an article in Slovenian news yesterday about how people buy Adria tickets an increasingly get an old plane and foreign crew instead.

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    2. Carpatair, Trade Air and now Avanti Air.

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    3. https://www.zurnal24.si/slovenija/letalsko-karto-kupis-pri-adri-airways-letis-pa-z-obskurno-letalsko-druzbo-307250

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    4. And ironically European passengers are not too happy when they see an Adria plane instead of Austrian/Eurowings/Swiss they booked :D

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    5. But they are nevertheless flying with a legacy carrier, not a lousy cheap LCC!

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    6. Don't worry. Trade Air is out in Apr, Carpatair a few months later.

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    7. Does anyone how JP extends lease contrats? Per week? Per month?

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  2. Surprise surprise

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  3. Interestingly, the new routes are extended in their winter timetable 2018 excluding BWK.

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    1. Dubrovnik too?

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    2. Well they were all planned to operate year round anyway. Except for DBK and BWK.

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    3. No Dubrovnik also ends. It's like they said from the beginning Dubrovnik and Brac are seasonal, the rest are year round.

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    4. Well, that sounds great. Im sure they still plan to get Saabs, so they will just try to survive through this “transition” but it might be very expensive for their business. But happy to see they will kep GVA and HAM;)

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  4. Why were they so interested in this old Saab metal anyway?

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    1. Because you can lease a Saab 2000 more or less for free.

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    2. Are there any other European airlines who use Saabs on scheduled flights?

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    3. Even if there were, less than 50 aircraft were made, so it's hard to compare...

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    4. Oh wow I had no idea there is such a small amount of them.

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    5. There are a few airlines still using Saabs - Skywork airlines, Loganair, Pen Air and Eastern Airways (one is used operated on behalf of British Airways).

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    6. 63 were produced until the year of 1999.

      Skywork is currently changing their whole fleet in order to operate only S20 in the future (plus one leased E170).

      Eastern Airways alone is operating 9 S20 planes plus one that flies as and for BA (so in total 10).

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    7. Because they thought they were going to get them for free now they are just trying to get them as a cheap as possible.

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  5. Good for the passengers that the SAAb's not coming.

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    1. Why? Etihad made them nice and comfortable inside.

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    2. Generally, no passenger likes small turboprops. Especially not pleasant flying over the Alps in them.

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    3. I know Saabs are generally unpopular with people but I think they were good for Adria. It gave them the chance to test certain routes with small capacity and less risk.

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    4. I don't think most people even know which plane they are sitting on or which plane they will get when they book a ticket. They don't really care.

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    5. Well I'm not so sure. I am an avgeek and I like turboprops but I fly regularly for business between Belgrade and Prague. I now regularly use Hainan Airlines (when the days suit me) because they fly the A330 instead of the Air Serbia ATR. More comfortable and quicker to get to my destination.

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    6. For me flying with a turboprop gets annoying only if its above 1 hour, e.g. I saw once on flightradar24 that OS has used a turboprop to one of their flights to SKP. (1h 30min).
      On the other hand, a 50 min flight, like VIE-INN is ok, even on a turboprop and even over the alps.

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    7. Except for the approach into and climb out of INN which is usually very shaky (in every plane type to be honest) due to prevailing foehn-winds in the middle of the deep alpine valley :) Great experience for all who like rollercoaster rides.

      Back to the topic: Up to 1:30 hours is perfectly fine in any turboprop. The only thing I would not want to do is flying 3 hours in it or more, remember SJJ to CPH with B&H ATRs, how long did that flight take (anyone has the old schedule)?

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    8. I fly VIE-INN at least 5x year since 2012 and i've experienced this only once, exactly 3 years ago, when the Germanwings copilot crashed the plane in the French alps, thats why i remember the time.
      All other times it was smooth sailing.
      i've had more or less all flight times: very early morning and/or late in the evening all all other times in between.

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    9. Really? I fly for business to INN like twice a year in average I'd say more often then not it is not very pleasant at leaat. I know a colleague from Germany who does not want to fly to INN anymore at all, he always now flies to MUC and then takes a rental car. He got truly scared once :) and then tried it never again.

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  6. Bravo Slovenija!

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  7. This probably also means they won't open a base in Paderborn like the airport said. They were meant to base a Saab there.

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    1. Maybe the Paderborn base will open in September by which time they will have the Saabs.

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  8. Che casino con Adria...

    Quite racist thinking of this German management. The newer own aircraft are leased out to the West and for Slovenians old Fokker 100 crab is good enough. Dont like that attitude

    Last time the water tabs in the toilets on the Trade Air F100 did not work for some days

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    1. come on! there is more behind this than simply dismissing aircraft on somebodies opinion that they are crap

      it is obvious that they were counting on this metal but something bigger has interrupted their plans

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  9. Good. Better to keep the airline as an 2 type aircraft operator.

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  10. Can the CRJ700s/900s land in Brac without load restrictions?

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    1. BWK now has a runway of 1800m so yes, surely every metal smaller than Airbus and Boeing can land and depart without restrictions. 737-700 and A319 may occur small restrictions, A320 and 738 most likely but it's not like these aircrafts will ever have a full cargo hold and do a flight of 6h departing Brac.

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    2. CRJ is much worse short-field performer than A320/B737-series aircraft. But still, flights are very short so shouldn't be a problem.

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    3. Take off at MTOW (fully loaded, full fuel) CR7: 1,605 m CR9: 1,939 m

      Landing at MLW CR7: 1,536 m CR9: 1,632 m

      So only a CR9 in LR-version at MTOW could not depart Brac (e.g.: BWK-THR not possible) :) But i doubt that would ever happen.

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    4. What temperatures are those figures based on? I suppose it gets hot there in the middle of summer.

      I think these numbers show that at best, the CRJs are borderline able to use BWK only due to the short sector length and therefore limited fuel carried, but with a serious airline's safety margins, I'm still surprised it's not a no-go for them, especially if they have hired a fair few newly type rated and inexperienced pilots.

      The CRJ is a stretched business jet with small wings and a high landing speed. It needs a much longer runway than most other aircraft.

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    5. @11:14:
      I think you are being way too cautious or pessimistic. Adria will use the CR7 which under no circumstance would pose a problem at BWK. I flew on a CR7 in and out Key West KEYW - it's a "hot" airport throughout the whole year and has a runway of just 1450 m. If it's safe for a CR7 there, then trust me it's no issue at LDSB.

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  11. What are they going to do with the Saab pilots they hired and trained?

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  12. I was expecting the JP bankruptcy news by December this year, but these additional operational costs combined with Brent over $72 nowadays, brought my expectation to early November.

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    1. They got some extra cash from Darwin, they will close the company down soon.

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    2. What on earth are you talking about?

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    3. When Darwin went bankrupt, a couple of millions went missing from its books (the Swiss authorities are looking into that). My guess is, this is the money that is keeping JP afloat.

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    4. yupp, there is definitely a bankruptcy in sight

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    5. This is becoming like a joke. Ad hoc wet leases of gas guzzlers (F100) isn't cheap. Especially when you consider the damage to your own brand, by combining the flights or having them operated by Eastern Europe companies - or both.

      Oh wait, they've already sold the brand :)

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    6. Pretty sure those millions are already at 4K. That is the part that the Swiss are investigating.
      Also, selling and leasing the brand name is a good way of extracting money without paying taxes. Brands can have basically any value, or in this case 4K is leasing Adria their brand name just at the price that Adria will not report any net profits. Ever again lol

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    7. well, somebody paid 8mil€ for that brand, and there is no way in hell that JP is proftable. so it more looks like somebody wanted to up their investment in the airline and get the money back through lease. my guess it is 4k, but the money is sunk and they will never get full 8mil back

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  13. Anyone flown with these Saabs?

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    1. Yep, when they were still stationed for Etihad Regional in LEJ. I flew LEJ-CDG and LEJ-GVA as well as DRS-VIE with OLT Express. These aircraft are definitely the best turboprobs ever built - they are extremely comfortable inside with a very nice, modern and spacious cabin interior and they are much faster than ATRs and even faster than DH84. Only thing that bothered me were usually old and worn out trolleys used by the cabin crew to serve drinks and collect the trawg5

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    2. * collect the trash

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    3. Thanks interesting to here. I just looked at some photos of the interior while they were flying for Etihad and they look very nice actually.

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    4. I flew with Adria Switzerland last yr on the route GVA-IBZ, operated with Saabs! Loved it. Very comfortable and cozy. Like I already posted a few days ago, I personally prefer Saabs over CRJs, specially If u sit in the single row (they got 1-2 configuration).

      Saabs ❤️

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    5. Agreed, these comfy leather seats inside are so nice...

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    6. And much better than ATR, which is too loud and u r literally squeezed, worse than on ryanair probabaly

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    7. At least we have our reliable ATRs, while you have nothing, and probably won't have in the future ;)

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    8. How old are the ATRs ?

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    9. YU-ALO, ALP and ALN are 27 years old.
      ALT and ALU are 20 years old and ALV is 12 years old.

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  14. Why paint them?

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    1. They painted them while they were operating for Darwin. If that's what you mean.

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  15. i am just wondering did they gave up on saabs because they are inefficient or because the swiss investigation on how they bankrupted the darwin created legal obstacles


    obviously, they are so chaotic management must be getting ulcers person per month.

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    1. They don't care about efficiency. The issue is in the second point you wrote.

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    2. I read on here that other leasing companies acquired the Saabs already. Obviously JP did not succeed in securing a lease deal at terms that JP would agree on.

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    3. Is this true what anon at 9:57 said? Most of the Saabs r still parked at LJU

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    4. Well, just because they are parked does not mean that they are not sold.

      At least one Saab was/is still part of a legal court case and may not be used, if that info that info is still correct.

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  16. Saabs are still in Booking System,for bookig after 01.09..

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    1. And in a few months they will move it 1.12. Every few weeks they move it by three months.

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    2. Can we stop with this BS, Saabs are not coming.

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    3. Yes they are, Untersteiermark
      Buy your ticket today and experience our wet-leased Caspian Airlines MD-82. Because the CRJs are meant for the Germans, and you get an antique plane. Also, expensive tickets.

      Danke schon

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    4. Sure, I'll buy my ticket for a flight lets say in November, and then in November, approx. 2 weeks before the flight I'll receive a friendly email from JP that my flight has been cancelled, and they would offer me an option with a stopover of 15 hrs in LJU.
      Alternatively, they would be happy to refund my money. And with the money they refund me, i would be able to buy only one leg of my initial flight, since, duh, 2 weeks before my flight, airline tickets cost much more.
      Thank you very much!

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  17. Meanwhile Adria's CRJ900 visiting all of ex-Yu by flying for Austrian lol

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    1. A few days in Bucharest there were 2 Adria CRJs side by side. One from Ljubljana, the other from Vienna.

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  18. Everything just seems so messy at Adria lately

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  19. Such an odd airline. Within 5 years - going hybrid, shrinking, expanding like crazy, acquiring planes all the time, leasing out planes all the time, opening bases in places like Lodz and other Polish cities, closing bases in Poland, setting up Nordica, exiting Nordica, buying Darwin, bankrupting Darwin...

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    Replies
    1. Running around like a headless chicken seems a proper description of their MO.

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  20. Does JP carry any cargo?

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    1. I don't think so. Funny enough they used to have a cargo plane 10 years ago.

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    2. And it used to be a SAAB lol.

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    3. http://www.airliners.net/photo/Adria-Airways-Cargo/Saab-Fairchild-SF-340A-F/2385203

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    4. Why did they use this plane? What were they transporting?

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    5. Anon 10.46

      Probably Mercator merchandise. lol

      On a more serious note, they should get back in the cargo business. Isn't LJU number one airport in ex-YU in terms of cargo?

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    6. I am also quite interested to what they used to carry on that plane.

      Regarding your question, BEG has more cargo then Ljubljana

      2017
      BEG - 19,758 tons
      LJU - 12,324 tons
      ZAG - 11,719 tons

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    7. WOW BEG really experienced a massive boom. I wasn't aware of it. I just checked and in 2016 they had 13.939.100 tons.

      Is LJU cargo growing this year? I guess thanks to Emirates ZAG will overtake LJU this year.

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    8. LJU's cargo has grown 15% in JAN/FEB.

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    9. Any numbers for ZAG?

      So this year BEG might reach 25 while LJU 14.

      All airports are seriously behind BUD which handled 127.145 last year. :O

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    10. Transporting cargo in what aircraft? For small quantities of bulk cargo, couriers (DHL/TNT/Fedex/UPS) have daily flights into/from LJU and much bigger network and as such can offer faster, more reliable and cheaper service.

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    11. Adria Saabs used to carry UPS and TNT material on the exyu routes. The Saabs and the contracts were later taken over by Solinair.

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    12. Who owns Solinair?

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    13. Last time I checked it was owned by MNG Airlines

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    14. I read somewhere that Slovenia was a large producer of poker machines and that this makes up a large part of their cargo.

      @1107. Zagreb’s Cargo is up 47.6% for the first 3 months compared to last year.

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    15. Q400 that's fantastic really, EK has truly been a blessing for Croatia.

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  21. Judging by the loads on their new routes, the Saabs would be more suitable and they would have had relatively good load factors.

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  22. Easy didnt extend Berlin-LJu into their winter schedule... Graz, they did😑

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    1. Maybe they are waiting to see how it performs in the end before making a final decision. It took them forever to load their summer timetable for BEG.

      BEG will remain unchanged in winter for them, a total of 10 weekly flights.

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    2. I am happy ZAD-LON will operate until the end of October.

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    3. Hope u r right! If we can make some conclusion how this route performs by the ticket price, we see prices havent risen much since they were put on sale, specially sept n octobre are still very much.

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    4. I think it's encouraging that they kept sales until the end of October.
      In my opinion, when an airline is not serious about a market it usually flies until mid to end of September as that's when demand starts to rapidly decline.

      Maybe they will bring some more flights around the Christmas holidays.

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    5. Well, but if septembre loads are low till now, octobre n novembre will be even worse...

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    6. Well, we are some five months from September. For example, one thing that's very symptomatic about the Serbian market is that people buy most of their flights last minute. That's why it's very difficult for most airlines to plan in advance.
      A good example is YM. Two weeks before a flight their loads might be around 40% but by the time the flight leaves it's completely sold out.
      That's why I say to wait for June or July before judging how the loads are in September.

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  23. What a strategy! Lease planes and wet lease them out.

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  24. I wonder where this airline will end... hopefully "only" in bankruptcy...
    Not only that their airplanes are maintained by non-licensed technicians, they are also employing or contracting anybody with a pilot licence, no matter their skill level and not to mention the at-least shady background of the Darwin deal.

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    1. What makes you think they are using non-licensed engineers?

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  25. Where is the service center for the Saab 2000 located?

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    1. Wherever you want it to be located :D

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    2. Solinair at LJU.

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    3. SB20 is not on the Solinair's capability list.

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  26. So, I believe the LF is very bad on the new routes...
    Anybody knows the figures?

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    1. I'm curious too.

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    2. I think its gonna be around 45%, but this is pure speculation based on the numbers anon working at LJU posted here. 45% on crj 700 so loads would have been much better on saabs - around 75-80%

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