NEWS FLASH
Air Serbia inaugurated its two-weekly service between Belgrade and Oslo yesterday, marking the carrier’s return to the Norwegian market after twelve years. The airline’s General Manager for Commercial and Strategy, Jiri Marek, said, “We are extremely glad to further expand the reach of our network, offering an opportunity to a great number of people from our country and the region, who live in Norway, to connect with their homeland, family and friends better. We are certain that a connection with one of the biggest European airports will greatly contribute to strengthening tourist and business ties between the Balkans and Scandinavia”. The Vice President for Traffic Development at airport operator Avinor, Gaute Riise, noted, “We are delighted that Air Serbia sees opportunities in the Norwegian market, even during these difficult times for the industry. We look forward to collaborating with Air Serbia”. Air Serbia will maintain the service each Thursday and Sunday. It competes directly against Norwegian Air Shuttle on the route.
They should be flying three weekly.
ReplyDeleteWizz Air is already crushed on the route.
ReplyDeleteWhy? Because they are not carrying transfers? People here really do not understand difference between LCC and legacy and their differences in terms of operations...
DeleteTransfers have nothing to do with this. Have you bothered to check out JU's schedule in and out of OSL? It's pretty epic especially the evening flight on Sunday.
DeleteWhat competitive advantage does Wizz really have? Let's say I am living in Oslo (like most Serbian expats) and I want to go to Belgrade. Why should I chose W6 over JU?
Mind you, price difference is not that great especially for rich people like the Norwegians.
Well Anon 12.28 how about the fact they delayed their OSL launch by a month... again.
DeleteSo delay of the route by a month after a crisis is nothing unusual, but does it mean that JU won? Wizz will start flights to Oslo so still there will be competetion between these airlines. BTW how were the loada on this first flight?
DeleteAnon 12:18, as a good starting point, check the map of Norway to see how far from Oslo is the airport where Wizz lands as compared to the one where Air Serbia lands.
DeleteI really dont understand what is "epic" in that timetable. You are arriving in BEG at 23:45 and you are not able to transfer almost anywhere and if you are able to do so you will arrive at your destination at 3 AM. Pretty bad for a legacy carrier who is needs to carry transfers. Still i dont think that this is something imoprtant so Wizz will leave that route. You are still having only 9 weakly flights to Norway from Serbia what is really poor and I dont think that anybody will left from Oslo (maybe Norwegian because of financial problems).
DeleteAnon 12:51
DeleteI check that, and i can say its 70 km more far away than you will need with landing in Gardermoen. But literally all LCC are flying to some villages far away from cities to where people actually need to go and still were not beated by legacy carriers who are flying to more important airports. If LCC were losing passangers from all legacy carriers and small ones like Air Serbia just because of their destinations, LCC would be dead long years ago and would not be the largest carriers in Europe.
Yet W6 was already once defeated by DY and now they also have JU to deal with. I guess they might keep these flights in summer when there will be a bigger spillover from OSL.
DeleteDY is almost dead. They cannot defeat nobody currently. JU is money losing legacy so they are also not something big to have a deal with. I would rather say that JU needs to deal with Wizz than opposite.
DeleteYet the only one of the three to have failed on this market is the supposedly invincible Wizz.
DeleteJajaja
Wizz cannceled that route 6 years ago, Air Serbia 12 years ago. Does that mean that they should not launch these flights again because they failed? Does this mean that only airline who did not fail on this route (DY) should maintain these flights?
DeleteAir Serbia never flew to Oslo, Jat Airways did. A company with a completely different business model and strategy. What's happening here is you absolutely refusing to accept the idea that Wizz can ever be defeated or fail anywhere. Just look at their long list of failures in Romania.
DeleteWhy you cannot acept that Wizz can beat Air Serbia maybe? Im not saying that Wizz cannot be defeated by someone, it can, but an idea that Wizz will be beated by Air Serbia just because of its LCC operation model which includes flying to minor airports and not so go timetable for me is hillarious. As far i know Wizz maybe failed on some routes in Romania but it is still there no. 1 airline.
Deleteof course I can accept that JU can be beaten but in this case JU has much more going for itself than W6. I am sorry if that's something that bothers you so much. Btw JU had around 90 passengers in both directions, Wizz couldn't get enough to even launch these flights. I guess facts that we have right now work in JU's favor.
DeleteAs i said i dont think that we will have a winner and a loser on this route. We have different opinions, i think that LCC have an advantage as ussual in comparasion to the legacy carriers because of price you think opposite, but overall, i dont think anyone will left this route. BEG had 6.1 millions passangers in 2019. and i think that airport of that size can sustain 9 weakly flights to Norway if not even more.
Delete*plot twist*
DeleteWizz launches BEG-OSL
Air Serbia can beat Wizz Air as well.
DeleteWizz should have launched Bergen instead
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
DeleteHaving your own Airline in the country like Serbia is a money wasting cycle. Majority of people in Serbia doesn't even know how much money they have been throwing in the Air, but that's your problem not mine, just saying.
ReplyDeletePoint of throwing money in national carrier is not only to connect your country to the world, it is also showing to your neighbour that you have the biggest something or you have the most successful someting. Thats why most of the people on this blog who are from Serbia would say that you are wrong. In this region people were always showing someting to other people to prove that they are "the best", " the richest" or someting else.
DeleteOne way or another you are going to be spending money on some airline so it might as well be your own. Albanians are going to spend millions on Wizz Air's three aircraft base which will launch some completely illogical and commercial nonviable routes (year-round TIA-RHO for example). We read today that Fraport wants the government (so our beloved taxpayers) to cash out €10 to be given to foreign carriers flying into LJU. Then there are many other examples out there where airports have given out millions to airlines.
DeleteHaving your own national carrier mean that you have at least some basic connectivity and stability which is extremely important for a country's economy. Look at Thessaloniki. It's a major Greek city and a gateway to all of northern Greece and the Aegean Sea. However no airline is based there (for now) so connectivity varies from day to day depending on what foreign airlines do there. I am ignoring Ellinair because they operate some domestic flights while all of their international flights are exclusively for tourists. Cities of this size without a locally based airline can suffer long term. So what do they do? They usually provide cash for someone to fly from there in order to overcome these challenges. Airlines such as Wizz Air and Ryanair have benefited from this greatly in the past.
What matters is that at the end of the day, you earn more indirectly from Air Serbia than what you've put directly in it. JU's BEG-IST is a good example of that.
There is a reason why Austrians, Swiss, Danes, Swedes, Germans... have all rushed to provide BILLIONS to their national carriers. Unfortunately there is this tendency in the Balkans that we always belittle and/or look down on what's ours while glorifying the same foreign thing which can, very often, be of lesser quality than what we have at home.
Nemjee
DeleteYou should understand the difference between national state owned carrier (LOT, Air Serbia) and national (ex-state owned) private carrier (Lufthansa, British Airways) . You said that Austrian, German, Swiss, Danish goverments are going to provide money to their national carriers because of this crisis what is true. They are going to do that because they are going much more to lose with these companies going in bakruptcy than with providing them billions. These comanies were paying huge taxes to these goverments and were never getting any money a from state as Croatia or Air Serbia. There is a difference when you are comparing Air Serbia to let we say Swiss. Air Serbia was getting money from a state before this but Swiss was not. So in reality, number of european airlines with their own national carriers is very low and there are rare carriers who are getting any kind of a support by a state.
And how much money did these airlines (Lufthansa, British Airways...) get before the European aviation market was deregulated? How much protectionism did they enjoy before they were fully ready to stand firmly on their own two feet?
DeleteWhy was Lufthansa set up in the 1950s? Why didn't the German government simply get PanAm to base a few planes across Germany and to fly for them?
Give JU, OU, LO, RO... a decade to restructure and become competitive before asking them to play 'fairly'. Then there is the big question, why weren't these airlines fully reformed and fixed before these countries became members of the EU? I am not talking about JU here, obviously, but rather CY, MA, OK and all others that suffered greatly once they were thrown into the open market.
What we have here is western companies not wanting these eastern 'communist' airlines making it out alive. What good is strong LO for Western airlines like Lufthansa or Austrian Airlines? How much trouble The Sick Man of Europe (TK) gave to others once he was cured?
Nemjee
DeleteIm not sure how much money Tirana gave to Wizz but as far i know they have their own national carrier so its not like that Wizz was their only option to connect to the world. If you have a market from where you cannot sustain flights to some destionations why than you need it? Why market cant just be free? You are forgeting the fact that JU is not only carrier who can provide to Serbia connectivity. If there is a market and other airlines are flying a same routes as your carrier, why than you need to pay for it? If there are currently 3 airlines operating flights to Oslo, then why are you paying national carrier if other airlines can fly on these flights? Why then you are paying for JU to fight against Wizz? If one part of Air Serbia strategy is to provide connections from KRR to FRA via BEG (not important to locals or connectivity of the country), why are you than giving money to Air Serbia? My point is, if you have foregin airlines to fly on immportant routes to your coutry and you dont need to pay them, why are you than paying local airline to fly on the same routes?
Nemjee 16:58
DeleteI think that comparing aviation in the 1950's and 2020 is wrong. Much things changed from than and aviation is completely different today. So establishing airlines than is completely different story.
If to these days western airlines were able to stand on their feet, and now were successful private owned airlines, then why do JU, RO etc. need so much time for that. Just look at what happend to Olympic. It was state owned airline, then private owned, then state again, then private, and overall it went in bankruptcy. It had state protectionism and private fresh capital but after all it went in bancruptcy. It was replaced by new private successful airline, never in state ownership, and which was not taking anything from taxpayers but it is very useful for local economy. If state owned airline dont know how to be successful and it is only taking taxpayers money for building its fleet, route network etc. ( to be comparable the market) then you dont need it. You just need to give a control to a free market and if there is potential it will definitly not be unused.
@XXXXX1111 "Having your own Airline in the country like Serbia is a money wasting cycle. Majority of people in Serbia doesn't even know how much money they have been throwing in the Air, but that's your problem not mine, just saying."
DeleteLet's see how arguments change 180 degrees when other exyu countries waste money on their own airline:
https://www.exyuaviation.com/2020/04/state-to-help-croatia-airlines.html?showComment=1587642521928#c4242411041043637739
Arguments used in that other case:
- Its existence is also prestigious and is vital for the economy of the country and sake of the Coast.
- Althought the airline is loss making, it has a positive overall impact on tourism and economy... it ensures year round air connectivity with Europe and thus the world. It generates over 1500 jobs in aviation (as some companies are highly dependant...
- Also each sold ticket generates additional money in tourism services. In other words, much more damage would be made if airline was not going to be saved.
Double standrads (what an unique profile name)
DeleteThat guy said nothing about OU in his post or was justifying goverments donations to OU. Maybe some people use these arguments but for sure they would use it and for other carriers because a lot of people thinks that goverment airlines should not get any kind of money from taxpayrs. Im one of them. Im one of them. Many people in Croatia are mad because of goverment "donations" to OU because that money is only going in "uhljebs" pockets. OU is also not so vital for the coast, there are many other airlines flying there and if we lose OU on the coast all flights will be replaced except these to ZAG but after Peljesac bridge construction is over, all of coast will be easly reacheble by a car from Zagreb.
Words are cheap, action is tough. When ZAG offers LCC discounts, brings Wizz to the airport and when OU stops geting taxpayers money, you can then point to that example and ask other airlines and airports to follow them. Until then, words are just words.
DeleteSo all airlines and airports need to follow an example of Zagreb airport and Croatia Airlines? I do not understand you at all.
DeleteVery clear message: if you don't think OU should get any kind of money from taxpayers, start by making a change there before criticizing others. OU is a frequent topic, wait a couple of days for your turn and unleash your arguments at OU.
DeleteThis is a thread about Air Serbia starting a new service to Oslo. Some people get triggered when JU expands and are trying to find any excuse to hijack it by talking trash when that happens. Clean up subsidized airlines in your backyard first. As for Air Serbia, great job with well timed introduction and all the best beating the crap out the wannabe competition.
Anon 16.59
DeleteThat makes no sense. Just because JU competes with someone else doesn't mean they are losing money in the process. Furthermore, imagine someone who is flying from BEG to VIE and buys a ticket with JU. His money gets deposited on JU accounts in Belgrade. If OS was to take over this route then the next time that person travels his funds are no longer deposited in Serbia but rather in Austria, that is abroad. With your proposal you would only speed up the process of taking money out of Serbia and to support companies that don't hire locals, don't pay taxes here, whose planes are not registered in Serbia and so on.
I guess JU is losing money because the number of passengers it carries and the amount of income it gets from them is not enough to pay all of its expenses. JU needs volume and that's what will help them in the future. Basing your business on transfer passengers is a good one but doing it right takes time and a lot of energy. From what I see JU is on the right track.
OU is not a frequent topic at all and when it is, im criticizing it when someone wants to have a discution about its goverment "donations". I really dont know why do you think that i cannot criticize others? If i want to say something against about JU, nobody is going to stop me in doing it. I have nothing to do with JU same as with OU, im not their employe, shareholder, provider, etc. so l really do not understand you at all why i cannot talk about one of these airlines. I think that my nationality is not important when im talking about what is in my opinion wrong and what is right.
DeleteAnon 17.17
DeleteYour example of Olympic is not a good one because when the Arabs bought them (I think it was MIG) they actually trimmed the airline and fixed it. They cut all loss-making routes, retired some planes that never made sense and they based their business on A319s, A320s and Q400s. Unfortunately for them, their new beginning was at a time when the World Economic Crisis began and when Greece was more or less devastated. With collapsing domestic and international demand they could never recover. They actually never went bankrupt but were rather bought by Aegean for, if I remember correctly, €70 million. So who knows what would have happened if there was no crisis to kill them.
Airlines such as JU and RO never had decades of economic growth airlines in the West had. How much did LH profit from the collapse of Yugoslavia and the disappearance of JAT? How much did they profit from the European single market which enjoyed several decades of absolute economic prosperity? Are you telling me airlines such as RO and JU had that? What they need is for someone to provide them with some breathing space so that they can reform and streamline their operations. In a way that is something JU has been doing for a while now. Look at where we were in 2013 and where we are today. In a way we passed through an extremely turbulent period but now the dust seems to be settling and they seem to be finding firmer ground upon which to stand. Are you implying that we should give up now after all we've been through? What for? So that we can pay foreigners to fly in and out when they please? How many foreign factories have come to Serbia, received subsidies and then overnight packed up and left? Will someone ask them to pay back the subsidies they received? JU might not be perfect but they are here to stay and they have to be dedicated to the Serbian market whether they like it or not, which is something, we who live here, can only profit from.
At the end of the day, Air Serbia's existence is not banning anyone from flying to Serbia. I am sure if it was up to them Wizz Air would never be allowed to fly from BEG yet just recently they announced a major expansion with three A321s. Serbian market is not held hostage by JU- that's the most important thing.
Nemjee 19:28
DeleteI have nothing against domestic airlines, flag carriers or state owned airlines, and I think that is great thing to have a domestic based carrier who will not only connect the locals to the world but also help to deomestic economy by employing local people, paying local taxes or support smaller buisiness, but i just think that is wrong to pay huge amounts of money to local carrier who is not able to make profits and it is flying on the same routes as other carriers which you are not paying. Basing one of parts of airline on transfers is a great thing if you can make profit, but if your owner (goverment) is paying you for connecting your country but you are one part of money using to bulid transfer strategy (it is maybe losing money) but you are still losing money I think that goverment is doing wrong desicions then.
So what you are saying is that we should shut JU down?
DeleteNemjee 19:42
DeleteI think that you are right about some thing that you said about Olympic but i dont think that my overall comparasion is wrong. As you said, Greek goverment sell Olympic to foregin private company and it stared making new strategy for Olympic. I was saying how Olympic was state owned unsuccessful airline who was taking a lot of money from state and it was doing no profit despite having great position for building an airline. It was money losing without any strategy in state hands but it had development in private hands which were able to make profit but as you said economical crisis had negative impact on them.
Nemjee 19:46
Im not saying that you should shut down JU, just make profitabile strategy without taking taxpayers money. If airline is not able to do so, better to say if there is no way to make airline independent from state money then shut it down because already you have many foregin airlines flying on the same routes as JU, because what is point of JUs help to local economy if after all local economy will need to pay to JU for surviving and its wars with other airlines.
People said the same about LJU and JP but look at the disaster now.
Delete"OU is not a frequent topic at all and when it is, im criticizing it "
DeleteThis is a lie. Since 1 June, Croatia Airlines label on this site came up 17 times. OU is a frequent topic. Show me how many posts critical of OU did you have in the link above and how many critical of JU in this one? There are at least 10 times more JU critical posts today than in that link. What's worse, in that OU link someone posted a comment that tried to shift topic to JU, as in "what about JU subventions". Typical double standards, lying and trying to shift heat away from OU. I will expose you for being a hypocrite every single time.
"I really dont know why do you think that i cannot criticize others? If i want to say something against about JU, nobody is going to stop me in doing it."
Oh I will, every time. Because every single time when there are positive JU news you use it as a trigger to try to throw shade at Air Serbia in any possible way. This is not showing care for taxpayers money or some other goal, it's just pure propaganda against Air Serbia. Nothing more than a disguised hate. It hasn't been effective at all. You did not manage to stop Air Serbia from growing passengers and destinations, or to help your airline/airport close the gap. Fruitless, flacid hate is all you can produce here. That's why your comments are being denied and ridiculed here.
Anon 21:29
DeleteOh yes, famous "double standards"! How interesting. As i said if someone wants to start conversation i will say my opinion about topic around conversation is made. I really do not understand your point where are you litarally saying that your nationality matters in terms of conversation which for me is really hilarious. If now im talking about JU with some people and having a nice conversation with some facts and arguments I really do not understand why are you getting into this with saying to me that im using "double standards" because im not mentioning OU when im talking about JU. If i think that goverment "donations" are really stupid way of building an airline, that is then my opinion for all airlines. You are saying how Im only criticizing JU which is completly not true because facts are against that. JU is far the largest and most successful airline in the region and it is doing great job in expanding (especialy after JPs bankruptcy) and making the only real hub & spoke model in the region. I have nothing against that and it is nice to see some development among regional airlines. But still, i think that there are some things which JU should improve like not taking goverment "donations" and more care about making profit than care how goverment will pay for its expansion. Only think that I dont love on this blog is glorification of JU and showing it only and always in positive way by some people here. And for me really anoying when people think how JU can beat anybody and open any route. Thats why im mostly commenting on topics about JU. Because most of people will say stupid "fanboyant" comments about JU which have no any logic. If you really think that I have nothing against OU just because im a Croatian and by your theory i should glorificate OU and not caring about huge amounts of my money going to that usless airline, I will prove you that you are wrong. Next time when topic become Croatia Airlines, just invite me into a conversation and I will say you everything I think about OU and its business model.
"Only think that I dont love on this blog is glorification of JU and showing it only and always in positive way by some people here. And for me really anoying when people think how JU can beat anybody and open any route"
DeleteThat's why you need help. I could not care less to make one comment when FlyBosnia is mentioned. I don't give a **** if someone writes only positive things about OU every time they are the topic. I don't get triggered to write 30 long comments when Montenegro wants to spend 155M on their airline. But you do when JU is the topic. You are the problem for always being triggered that way.
Chill bro.
DeleteDon't tell him to chill, what he says is the absolute truth.
DeleteOk, don't chill bro.
DeleteAnon 02:32 (great time to cure your frustrations because someone doesnt see JU in the same way as you)
DeleteYou do not understand me at all. I really do not understand why should anyone write good things about OU. OU is a piece of s*** with horrible mangement, hilarious route network and useless transfers and everyone know that. And talking about this will be litarally converstation with yourself because everyone have the same opinion about OU. Everyone knows what that airline i doing and a lot of people are criticizing it. Nobody is saying how OU is successful carrier, has great connections or something else. But it is different story with JU. People are just talking stupid thing about it, like that it has money for long haul but still is relaying on states money, how it can beat Wizz in Oslo and arguments are litarally "they are a LCC", how it has money for new aircraft but still it had 30 year old 737 (they are going in retirement this year but who is rep,acment?), how it is in paralel universe to OU but numbers are still not so different (fleet, number of passangers) and both carriers are relaying on state aid... But sometimes these JU fanboys are talking truth like, when JU beated OS in Kransnodar because of better connections and managments great move to launch flights there because only 2 connecting carriers were flying there... If you really want to talk about OU, we can but all opinions will be the same and that will be no conversation as this one with Nemjee and other comentators. And yes, have you ever thought that you are using doble standards not others? Like now you talk bad things about OU (actally truth and facts) but you simply doesnt care about what Im talking about JU (also facts)?
Anon 02:32 (great time to cure your frustrations because someone doesnt see JU in the same way as you)
DeleteYou do not understand me at all. I really do not understand why should anyone write good things about OU. OU is a piece of s*** with horrible mangement, hilarious route network and useless transfers and everyone know that. And talking about this will be litarally converstation with yourself because everyone have the same opinion about OU. Everyone knows what that airline i doing and a lot of people are criticizing it. Nobody is saying how OU is successful carrier, has great connections or something else. But it is different story with JU. People are just talking stupid thing about it, like who it has money for long haul but still is relaying on states money, how it can beat Wizz in Oslo and arguments are litarally "they are a LCC", how it has money for new aircraft but still it had 30 year old 737 (they are going in retirement this year but who is rep,acment?), how it is in paralel universe to OU but numbers are still not so different (fleet, number of passangers) and both carriers are relaying on state aid... But sometimes these JU fanboys are talking truth like, when JU beated OS in Kransnodar because of better connections and managments great move to launch flights there because only 2 connecting carriers were flying there... If you really want to talk about OU, we can but all opinions will be the same and that will be no conversation as this one with Nemjee and other comentators. And have you ever thought that you are using double standards? You are triggered when someone is talking not so positive thing about JU (truth), but you will not have any problems when someone will talk negative positive things about OU?
02:32 to cure frustrations? Maybe in BEG/ZAG, but that's just after noon in New Zealand or some other place on Earth. You need help.
DeleteSo your only argument currently is "you need help"? Wow i didnt expect so much honestly!
DeleteGood job JU!
ReplyDeleteVidim poreski obveznici se raspisali,nikako da svare da u jeku krize AS pokreće novu rutu. Do kraja meseca bi AS trebala da objavi finansijske rezultate za prošlu godinu pa će mo videti kako stoje stvari.Operativni podaci su naj bolji do sada,nadam se da će i finansijski biti takođe.
ReplyDeleteA koliko im to vremena treba da objave finacijske rezultate...
DeleteU skladu sa zakonom. Procitaj ga pa ces videti. Zbog korone je dodatno produzen rok za dostavu finansijskih rezultata APR-u, a i o tome mozes da se informises na sajtu APR-a.
Delete,Финанцијске' резултате многи још нису доставили тако није као да само чекамо ЈУ да то учини брате.
DeleteRegardless of all the pros and cons, eventually intelligent flyers will choose Air Serbia over Norwegian. The price difference is marginal and Norwegian has some of the worst service in Europe.
ReplyDelete