Germanwings launching its third route in to Zagreb
The low cost airline Germanwings will launch flights between Hamburg and Zagreb next summer season. The year long flights are set to operate twice per week, every Monday and Thursday, starting July 10. The airline will use Bombardier CRJ900s on the route. Germanwings’ owner, Lufthansa, has transferred some of its CRJ900s to its low cost subsidiary. Germanwings operated the Hamburg - Zagreb service in the past, before shutting down its base. However, this time around the airline will operate with a smaller aircraft. Further flight details can be found here.
Germanwings’ new flights to Zagreb mark its continuing expansion throughout Croatia. Next summer the airline will launch flights from Hamburg and Dusseldorf to Rijeka and increase frequencies on its seasonal Dusseldorf - Split service from one weekly flight this summer to three per week next summer season. Lufthansa has decided to transfer most of its regional European flights from non-hub airports in Germany to Germanwigs. As a result, all of Lufthansa’s seasonal flights from Berlin to Split, Dubrovnik and Zadar will be operated by Germanwings next summer season. However, Lufthansa will maintain operations on the Berlin - Zagreb service until further notice. The transfer of Lufthansa flights to Germanwings has been ongoing since early this year.
Germanwings’ Hamburg service will be the second new destination to be served out of the Croatian capital next year. It joins Etihad Regional, which will commence operations at the start of the 2014 summer season following its acquisition of Darwin Airline. It will inaugurate flights from Rome to Zagreb on March 30. Also, Turkish Airlines will add an additional four weekly flights from Istanbul to Zagreb starting January 20. As a result, the airline will operate two daily flights between the two cities. Zagreb Airport’s new management estimates the airport will see passenger growth of 8% next year.
Can't wait to see another airline flying from Amsterdam to Zagreb as they slowly becoming charter airline .down sizing who is gaining with this
ReplyDeleteMaybe we see Transavia?
DeleteWhen Zagreb-Hamburg was served by Germanwings in the past, it was not suspended cos of low interest, it was suspended and all other routes, bcos the base was closed!
ReplyDeleteOT: Hamburg-Zadar mon, fri, from 11.7.
Hamburg-Pula from 10.7. tue, thu
Düsseldorf-Zadar increase mon, wed, sat (1 flight more per week
Düsseldorf- Split mon, tue, thu and sat (1 flight more per week
Düsseldorf-Dubrovnik thu, sun, 1 flight more per week
Hamburg-Dubrovnik tue, sun 1 flight more per week
Yes! It was not suspend because of low interest! Route had very good LF. Germanwings closed base in Hamburg and suspend all flights from Hamburg!
DeleteExYu where did you get information that Hamburg-Zagreb route LF was low? That is pure speculation. LF was high, I know I worked for Germanwings. Route was not suspend because of low LF, but because Germanwings suspend all flights from Hamburg exempt few flights to Cologne and Stuttgart which was operate by planes from those bases.
DeleteCan anyone give us a hint of some other new routed they we might see in ZAG next year?
ReplyDelete* routes. sorry
DeleteMaybe a few new destination we might see, but without a passanger increase or CA network expansion there is a good chance that nothing important happens next year.
DeleteUkoliko se crni scenariji (u kome koncesionar želi opljačkati) ipak ne desi, već koncesionar stvarno želi zaraditi širenjem prometa, realno je za očekivati slijedeće:
Delete1. EasyJet otvara bazu u Zagrebu. ADPI ima i te kako jak utjecaj na EasyJet koji na njihovim aerodromima ima brdo letova (38 linija iz CDG i 19 iz ORY). Stoga ne bi nimalo problematično bilo potaknuti, pa čak i uvjetovati određenu suradnju i privilegije na ORY i CDG, baziranjem bar jednog aviona u ZAG. Uz to ne treba zanemariti niti francusko-nizozemsku LCC Transaviu kao potencijalnu LCC za baziranje jednog aviona (42 linije iz ORY). ADPI ima odličnu suradnju i sa Vuelingom koji ima 15 linija iz ORY (dobar dio nije u Španjolskoj).
2. Air France se također motivira za povečavanje letova CDG-ZAG.
3. KLM se motivira na otvaranje linije za AMS.
4. Povečava se broj chartera iz ZAG za Grčku, Tunis, Tursku, Egipat i Kanare, te se otimaju putnici LJU i Adriji. Za ovu svrhu nije nužna inertna CTN, već je moguće proširenje posla koje na CDG i ORY ima Europe Airpost (čak 34 linije iz CDG), Air Mediterranee (30 linija iz CDG i 11 iz ORY) ili XL Airways (32 linije iz CDG)
5. Najavili su interkontinentalnu liniju iz ZAG (najvjerovatnija JFK). U svakom slučaju najizvjesnija bi bila Delta koja je vrlo prisutna na CDG (12 linija sa preko 20 dnevnih polazaka), pa se istime može i motivirati na tako što, ali ne treba ni zanemariti neke druge, pa čak i Air France i Corsair.
6. ADPI operira i druge aerodrome. Nije baš vjerovatno da bi linije iz Zagreba mogle poletjeti za Amman, Tripoli, Islamabad ili Marsu, no u doglednoj budućnosti to i nije krajnje nevjerovatno. Konačno ADPI ima udjela i u nekim bližim aerodromima.
7. ADPI svakako ima utjecaj i na druge prijevoznike koji bi mogli otvoriti linije ili povečati frekvencije prema ZAG.
8. Cargo prema CDG, poglavito za FedEx koji ima 32 linije iz CDG, od čega njihov feeder Air Contractors leti i iz obližnje BUD, a i iz niza drugih zračnih luka koje su udaljenije od ZAG da bi feedale CDG linije FedExa na sve kontinente, dakle vrlo je vjerovatno da bi let ZAG-CDG za FedEx mogao krenuti vrlo brzo.
9. ADPI će svakako nastojati zadržati i motivirati (pa i financijski) CTN za zadržavanje i širenje linija u regiji, a ako to ne uspije svakako će potražiti novog portnera poput Trade Aira, HOP!, EasyJeta...
10. ADPI će nastojati privući sve oblike poslovanja poput generalne avijacije, poslovne avijacije, chartera, ad hoc letova, carga...
U najboljem mogućem scenariju Air France ulazi u Croatiu Airlines koja prelazi u SkyTeam, otvaraju se linije SkyTeam partnera, a ZAG postaje regionalni hub za SkyTeam uz feeding linije prema PUY, ZAD, BWK, LSZ, SPU, DBV, OSI, SJJ, OMO, BEG, SKP, PRN, TGD, Delta otvara liniju za JFK, a ostali partneri dolaze u ZAG, prvenstveno Alitalija, Air Europa, Aeroflot povečava broj frekvencija, ČSA, KLM, TAROM, sezonski Korean (već godinama vrte chartere za ZAG).
Purgeru, koliko mislis da je realno da Zagreb dobije prekookeanske letove, i to pre Budimpeste i Bukuresta.. ? I Prag je tek skoro dobio jedan nedeljni let. Mislim da ce se ex-yu region nacekati dok ne dobije prekookeansku liniju. I BEG i ZAG.
DeleteI do not see why on earth would Delta launch flights to Zagreb before they would to Bucharest which is home to a much bigger Sky Team carrier. Not only that, they can't make Prague work as a year-round destination yet you believe they could pull off Zagreb throughout the summer season?! I just can't see it. I won't even mention Corsair- do you believe that Zagreb can fill almost 500 seats on their sardine-like jumbo? lol
DeleteThen we come to your proposal of an Air France's regional base. You do know they attempted to introduce a slightly decentralized business model in France, right? It was a total disaster after the first few weeks. Only a few flights remained. Here we are talking about French cities which have a lot of demand and a relatively wealthy population. Even Lyon is being downsized as we speak! Lyon, which is the heart of French industry and one of the wealthiest regions in the country! So if these did not work, what makes you think the regional hub in Zagreb will? Also, they will need a much longer list of destinations out of Zagreb to justify this base, not just Paris and Amsterdam. I am sorry but I just do not see a loss making Air France being this adventurous. Your proposal of a lowcost establishing a base is far more logical.
Scheduled flights over the Atlantic from an airport that handled only 2.5 pax... Not so common sight...
DeleteActually, it's not even 2.5.
DeleteNemjee whatever I writhe here is thesis that ADPI will work to make airport very profitable and for that they have to bring more passengers. Personally, I am not so optimistic about their real intentions.
DeleteBut if they decide so, they have two possible ways to urgently increase passengers’ number. Today 75% of ZAG passengers fly from airports 400 around ZAG especially VIE, BUD, BTS, VCE, TRS, TSF, even ZAD (Ryanair), and charters from LJU, GRZ, SZG, LNZ, PUY, RJK, SPU… By increasing airlines and routes, especially LCC and charters (which are very underserved in ZAG), for sure they will keep most of ZAG passengers to fly from ZAG. You can spend 150 EUR more to fly from ZAG if you have 2 pax, and that is what they spend today to fly from airports around (gas, tool, parking…).
Second way is to bring some more passengers from region, especially Croatian passengers from DBV, SPU, ZAD, PUY, RJK, LSZ, BWK, OSI and OMO, and for those who have better deviation via ZAG than BEG (SJJ, PRN) + alternative to Air Serbia from SKP and TGD.
In both those ways problem is Croatia Airlines. If they will not have good collaboration with Croatia Airlines for sure they will have to find new partner. And there we come to influence, motivation, black-mail etc. ADPI is in very good position to protect their investment by “pushing” her domestic company (same owner) to open mini-base in ZAG. For sure that would not be Air France (exempt on ZAG-CDG route and possible USA route), but HOP!
About North America flights I doubt that is real in near future. Personally I thing it is fairy tale. This is why I wrote “najavili su”. So, ZAIC announce that. Why, who knows. But if they really put themselves a goal to open that route for sure they are in position to influence Delta who has 12 routes with 20 daily flights from CDG.
I also predict some cargo flights to CDG. And just few days later they start to operate A330 cargo flight to CDG. I was surprised to see how fast they react on cargo field.
One more time, for sure ADPI and Bouygues are very influence in France, and ADPI with so many air companies. They are in position to black-mail and motivate. And if they want to protect their investment. Air Serbia looks so unreal in May, and look at it today!
I agree with most of what you wrote in the last post. Cargo flights are a real possibility especially if they manage to build a sort of a distribution hub for the region. Then they might even attract some other airlines. Croatia has decent road infrastructure so it could move these goods rather fast around the region.
DeleteEven if they were going to build a regional network, I don't think it can happen as long as Air France is accumulating losses. For this kind of project you need months and months until the routes reach maturity, especially since some of these routes have a really small O&D demand.
Maybe the best thing for the French is to try and lure either Wizz Air or Ryanair since these two airlines are experts in luring in the masses. Naturally, then we come to the question if the airport is ready to give them what they need. It might actually work for Wizz Air since they already operate out of Skopje and Belgrade which are decent airports with good infrastructure- as in they are not some shacks in the middle of nowhere like most lowcost airports. Attracting legacies might work but they will not get the large increase in passenger numbers thanks to them.
All in all, I think that Zagreb should consider attracting Wizz Air. They have helped many airports boost their numbers and with their really low cost structure they could also enter the charter market from Zagreb, like they did from other cities as well. There isn't so much competition in Zagreb so they could easily go from one aircraft base to two.
Croatia Airlines can do so much more to encourage people to use Zagreb as a transit point to Croatia and the region. Offer a free connecting flight or flights if you spend a day or night in Zagreb for example. OU could look to have the connected flight than subsidised by either Zagreb airport or the city.
DeleteThinking a little out of the box can go a long way.
Yeah but to offer free stay during their connecting flights they actually need to have a decent regional network, something they don't have.
DeleteBasically Turkish took over OU’s former flight times between Istanbul and Zagreb. Their expansion in ex-Yu is quite amazing. I can’t believe there is so much demand (I don’t mean out of Zagreb I mean generally out of all of ex-Yu)
ReplyDelete15 daily flights from exYu to IST. That is really more than amassing!
DeleteZagreb is the looser of the years 2013 and 2014....not really amazig new routes
ReplyDeleteThe real question here is why didn't Lufthansa leave this route to its pet, Croatia Airlines? They could have easily done it with two weekly A319 aircraft. Not to mention that this flight is almost two hours and I would not want to fly on a narrow CRJ that long. For me 01.30 is already too much.
ReplyDeleteHowever, looking at the big picture here, we can see that Lufthansa is taking over the Croatian market big time. Let's also not forget that they were the ones who launched, last summer, flights from Berlin to Zagreb. Could it be a sign that they are giving up on Croatia Airlines? Even if they go belly up, Lufthansa can just set up a two aircraft base in Zagreb and get it over with (through Germanwings- they can even adjust capacity thanks to its fleet of A319s and CRJs).
For me, it seems that Croatia Airlines is slowly, slowly being suffocated from all sides and it can't really do much at this point unless it finds someone competent to turn it around and take it out of Lufthansa's shadow. I am still surprised how Adria manages to do its own thing and have some sort of autonomy while Croatia Airlines does the exact opposite.
I wouldn’t say Adria has autonomy. All those routes from PRN were initiated by Ludthansa. From Verona, Adria will get routes on which Lufthansa’s subsidiary failed. Lufthansa only looks where it will benefit. Most flights they gave up to Germanwings are their loss making flights. Personally, I don’t think OU will go bankrupt but they are facing really tough competition and I don’t think they are prepared. It shows by the fact that the government remembered to sell OU a few months after(?!?!) the country entered the EU. To me this just shows a lack of vision. OU has great potential. It doesn’t even fly east of the boarder. If only a few years ago they started up flights to Russia, Dubai and maybe Romania and Bulgaria and tried to turn ZAG into a transit point we might have a different picture today.
DeleteP.S. The vintage is photo is fantastic :))
Well, when I spoke of Adria I was referring to their network out of Ljubljana. I mean, this summer they will be launching flights to Prague and Warsaw... and before the crisis they were preparing themselves to have a major Balkan expansion. They seem to be an active airline while Croatia Airlines reminds me of Jat Airways. It will keep its current schedule and they will see how to deal with new challenges only when they are forced to do so.
DeleteWell, Croatia did try to fly to the east but their adventure to Istanbul failed rather fast. Let's also not forget that OU is not returning to Belgrade from Dubrovnik, something I just can't understand. But overall I get your point.
The fact is that they can have all the advantages they want but if they do not use them they might miss their last chance to make something of it. The aviation landscape is changing fast, they need to understand that.
Off topic: Turkish Airlines sent its B737-900 to Belgrade this morning. I think that's the first time if I am not mistaken.
DeleteThat is Lufthansa way! Just remember how they take over market in Brussels, and in Vienna where they had alliance "partner". That was rape, not "take over". And result: today they are owner of Austrian and Brussels.
DeleteStar Alliance is their tool, and Germanwings also. Just look at this fact:
CTN routes to Germany:
Munich
Frankfurt
Lufthansa/Germanwings routes to Germany:
Munich
Frankfurt
Berlin
Hamburg
Cologne
Stuttgart
Sapienti sat!
Yeah but I just do not see Lufthansa buying Croatia Airlines- anyway their officials said that they are done shopping. Like I said, I feel that they will just open a base in Zagreb in case OU goes belly up. They can add a few CRJs and a few A319s for routes with greater demand. I am also sure they could use Croatia's cheaper labour costs to reduce their costs.
Deleteyeah, even if they decide to set up base in ZAG, it won't be LH. either CL or 4U, or even EN, but LH no
DeleteRelax Nemjee,
DeleteI don't think OU will be going belly up and if you truly believe that is the case, than what hope do you give to Air Serbia who has embarked on a high risk expansion campaign with little to show to date? Etihad is only committed to 5 years of assistance for Air Serbia and could leave the airline in a pretty desperate shape if they decide not to continue cooperation after 5 years with Air Serbia being either left with the bill for the 10 A320's neos or no new A320's at all.
For someone who just 2 weeks back wrote 'I don't give a rat's ass about Zagreb, Croatian and Croatian aviation, you seem to have decided to be shitty about any positive news no matter how insignificant it might be that comes from Croatia or any positive opinion someone might have of Croatia.
For some reason I was signed in as 'mail man'.
DeleteQ400.
@mail manDecember 22, 2013 at 5:19 PM
Deletex1
He's a Serb nationalist who can't see beyond his nose, unfortunately one of many here.
I can still give my opinion about something without really caring about it. The same way I can talk about LOT's Dreamliner problems. I have an opinion but those problems are of no concern to me. The same applies for Croatia Airlines and the Croatian aviation with the exception of flights which are heading towards Serbia.
DeleteRegarding Air Serbia, I will not even bother to write a reply to as what has been done so far as I have an abundance of examples to bring forward as my defence. Etihad might be tied up to Air Serbia for five years but that contract can be renewed and Etihad will not back down as it will hurt their image internationally and damage their bargaining position when negotiating future takeovers. Etihad will NOT risk all that, especially not now when they have so many airlines knocking on their door.
I have also attacked people on here when they said that Belgrade will receive transatlantic flights. I said it was not realistic. So today when people said that Zagreb will become some sort of HOP! hub to feed TWO, I repeat TWO, European destinations, what do you expect me to do? Agree for the sake of agreeing?! lol The same way I said a new terminal in Skopje won't do much to change the situation there. The other day we found out what was the reason for the phenomenal growth there- it was not because of the terminal, it was because TAV pushed for artificial growth. Anyway, that's not the point of this discussion.
I fear that most of you here, the moment you see a Serb criticizing лијепу вашу OU you immediately label him as a hater. True, there are quite a lot of those here (they are present on both sides actually) but I am just pointing out disillusioned bulls**t some people write on here. Then again, I can't fail to notice that you have not put forward any kind of argumentative defence against what I wrote but in stead you called me 'shitty and negative about any positive news coming from Croatia.'
I will still believe that Zagreb is a city without an aviation future in Croatia. I have said it before and I will repeat it here again. The future of Croatia's aviation is on its coast and all funds should go there to bring the infrastructure to a higher level so that passenger flow can be increased for the future summer seasons.
It has nothing to do with hate, it has to do with common sense... friend.
Поздрав из Београда.
Bravo!
DeleteFirst of all, it is completely hypocrite of you to attack Nemjee while everyday we're reading under every Air Serbia-related news hundreds of negative comments that are - unlike his argumentation and sound opinions - completely groundless for the most of them. I don't see how and why, that doesn't bothers you. That's a hint of an inherent conflict of standards within yourself that is growing quite sharp.
DeleteSecondly, i think it is clear for any aviation expert - or even a bit brighter amateur - that OU has no future whatsoever besides being a semi-lowcost holiday airline. Lets put aside Air Serbia - no body showed up at your tender for privatization, not a single airline, not a single offer, doesn't that tells enough? Your fleet is composed of 5 (five!) jet planes, you're under the paw of Lufthansa and without potential to invest anything into your airline, all that while you're in one of the most competitive regions in the world - hello! What sort of "hub" are we taking about?
Third - the hype about Zagreb airport: Zagreb airport is about to record a near 10% dive this year despite the EU accession (and all the bang-bang around it), handling barely over 2 million passengers, not significantly more than Pristina. On the other hand, the coast has been seeing solid growth for now, just as Nemjee described it with great accuracy. So far as we can see - and i doubt it'll ever change in the near future - the only airlines that'll be adding flights to Zagreb will be second-tier subsidiaries of mainline airlines (Hop!, Germanwings...) and some low-costs, who might even base an aircraft there - not cause i'm a Serb (i'm not), not cause i hate Zagreb (i don't care much about it) but simply because the name of the one who tells it is - MARKET.
Fourth - Some people's behavior on this blog towards Air Serbia is confining mental illness. Like there is a guy who spends whole mornings checking every single Air Serbia's delay! Spending hours talking every bad detail he could find about it, without bothering to open SKytrax and see how many negative comments TK gathers, for example. I really think that we've heard enough of 'delays' and that unless something really significant occurs such posts should be banned in the future by the Admin.
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/turkish.htm
Fifth and last - You didn't want to be part ot this country (Yugoslavia) so please behave accordingly. Which means forget about Air Serbia, forget about Belgrade, forget about Etihad and their 'stupid strategy', if that's how you call it... What do you care anyway? Take care of your own garden - as said Rousseau. I'm more than sick of reading those stupid comments full of hatred and envy. Because of them i'm almost not participating on this blog anymore cause i don't want to loose time arguing with fools. How low and immature is that? Do you intend to stay that way?
On your place i would be much more worried about your own future instead of Etihad's if you've gotten such mentality at a pretty advanced adult age. Deplorable.
Very well said!
DeleteWhen you're saying KLM might start Zagreb, do you mean KLM Cityhopper? There is no chance KLM starts Zagreb themselves. Cause from what i see Zagrab is gonna become an airport of 'hops': HOP!, Cityhopper, what's next? hOUp (once Croatia Airlines restructures and rebrands)! Hahahaha :D
DeleteWhile Nemjee claims he offers opinion based on 'fact' where many times he will write an Air Serbia flight was chocker block for example and would write this as if it was fact based on what a 'friends sister's aunty cousin' told him.
DeleteFor me I get a sense of hysteria when he has an opinion about Air Serbia and Belgrade and this for me is fine, others do too but Nemjee always puts his arguments forward as if it is a fact so he opens himself up to criticism.
On the other hand, whenever he states an opinion of Croatia, it almost always starts with 'why would' or why should x happen in Croatia and throws in 'OU will go belly up soon' ignoring the fact that the restructuring process is going well and that OU assets is probably worth more than the physical airline itself and will still carry about 1.9 million passengers this year with as someone pointed out just 5 jets.
I accept Air Serbia and Belgrade doing well is good for the whole region, what I'm interested in is how Zagreb and Belgrade along with Air Serbia and Croatia airlines will respond to each other and grow from each other.
My opinion and it's just my opinion is that Air Serbia's future is not set in stone. For the time being OU is still in a better position than Air Serbia. What the future will bring, time will tell but nothing is certain in Aviation.
Also, regarding Zagreb numbers, heavily related to two things. The ongoing recession in Croatia and OU’s restructuring. OU not being sold is not surprising in this economic climate and I wrote before on this blog that I was skeptical about OU's sale.
Air Serbia / Etihad deal was a god send which had more to do with other economic relations between Serbia and the UAE than Belgrade's potential as a major transit point but is this becomes the case than great! I just hope Zagreb than responds (again my opinion) to challenge for its position as a regional leader too.
Healthy competition is what the region needs and if others can do it so can we!
Q400
I didn't say that LH will buy CTN. For sure they stop to buy things. I just give you examples how they did not take care of their partners in Alliance, especially Austrian, but destroy them with routes copy from MUC, dumping etc. with goal on that time to buy them.
DeleteToday it is not real that Lufthansa will buy Croatia Airlines because they sell their companies and stop buying. But in same time they don't care to help their partner, Croatia Airlines, to give them possibility to fly at least on some of share routes like Berlin, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Cologne, Dusseldorf, or even monopoly on Frankfurt, Munich or Vienna routes.
@Q400
DeleteWell put, couldn't have said it better.
Q400 bravo! True, true and nothing but the true.
DeleteNemjee see in Air Serbia delays the best professional airline and in their 55% LF huge progress, but in same time everything what comes from Croatia is shit, not perspective, coming to end urgently. And did not learn anything from "miracle" of Jat.
For him Zagreb is in end, OU is second to death, Croatia is very near to bankruptcy. To see reality you just have to visit Zagreb and Belgrade. Nothing else.
Anonymous @ 8:54, what makes you think you are any better. Everything you see as problem in Nemjee's posts also applies to your own: everything that comes from Serbia is crap, Air Serbia is a political project that will never be profitable, Air Serbia has one month to reach 80% LF or else it is crap, Air Serbia will never match OU, Zagreb is undisputed center of the region, Serbia is extremely poor country... I see no aviation business in your case, just some beginner's course in cheap nationalism. If only you had some 'a cousin told me OU's flights were 100% full' story to share - even that would be worth some discussion about aviation business. Alas, you don't have even hearsay to offer. In fact, you've got nothing but brave political defending of Zagreb against hordes of poor Serbs paid $200 per month. Trust me, your heroic patriotism can better be utilized in some other internet communities - this one is too specific and its quality cannot withstand either srbovanje or domoljublje. It just doesn't fit aviation.
DeleteQ400,
DeleteMaybe I get overly enthusiastic over Air Serbia's future but you would be the same if this was happening to Croatia Airlines.
I might be excited about all these changes but at least I do not twist other people's words, like you do. Please go back and read my posts and you will see that I have constantly said that Croatia Airlines can NEVER become a normal airline until it's out of Lufthansa's reach. I have said it countless times on here and I will do it until this changes. Furthermore, I am sceptical about the restructuring plan because what they are proposing is nothing ground-breaking and I do not see how they will manage to compete with three major airports in the region: Belgrade (Air Serbia), Vienna (Austrian Airlines) and Budapest (Wizz Air- which is currently building a lowcost hub and spoke system there).
Croatia Airlines, as many have claimed here, is a carrier without a concise business strategy. They tend to operate from the coast in the summer with a modest presence in Zagreb. Then in winter time they hibernate until the spring awakening. Their fundamental structure is wrong and this will prevent them from moving forward in an increasingly competitive environment. I do not see how they plan on being a transit airline when their regional network keeps shrinking while the amount of frequencies towards the major European cities is far below what's needed in order to efficiently build a hub. For me it was more than shocking that they couldn't make Istanbul work. Even Adria, which operates out of a considerably smaller market manages to keep these flights.
Furthermore, the reason why I posted Larnaca's loadfactor on here is because many of you (your kind) have constantly said that no one will fly with Air Serbia from destinations such as Thessaloniki or Larnaca... So look at this, Larnaca is actually attracting a great deal of transit passengers. We found out the same for Thessaloniki. Furthermore, Air Serbia will record its second month of double digit growth, that's also something to be proud of. A great deal of these passengers came from the new routes where some of them rely on a great deal of connecting traffic.
Also, your excuse for Zagreb's falling numbers is not good enough. Serbia has been going through economic stagnation for more than 20 years now but passenger number have been rising for the past 10. When Jat was becoming a joke and when it could no longer meet the needs of the travelling public, foreign airlines launched flights to Belgrade. So why is Zagreb's recession any different than Belgrade's? Croatia is in the European Union now and any other airline could have rushed in to open flights, why didn't they? Don't tell me that it's because of OU's protectionism or God knows what, that's a really lame excuse.
Furthermore, I used to write a blog when I had some free time and you can go and read a few articles on there and you will see how critical I was of Jat Airways and its management. That should show you that I was not blinded by my 'nationalism' and that I saw the real picture and what was wrong with it.
To conclude, I have never justified Air Serbia's delays unless they were caused by thick fog. I have never said it will be an easy road ahead of Air Serbia, quite the contrary. I did say that Jat Airways was saved from its doom and the only one that could have done it was someone like Etihad. There are many things that need fixing in Air Serbia but I do not think its realistic to expect some sort of mini-Etihad airline after just two months of operations.
Bottom line is that double digit growth shows that they are doing something right.
Поздрав из Београда.
NO, THAT IS NOT TRUE. THAT IS NOT MY OPINION, AND YOU DID NOT READ THIS FROM ME, exempt that Serbia is poor country, and that is the fact. By World Bank rank (GDP per capita) Croatia is in 56 position and Serbia on 100 out of 191 countries.
DeleteAnd I did not read here any comments from Croats that Zagreb airport is better than Belgrade and that Croatia Airlines has better future than Air Serbia (not to confuse that with present situation where OU has mach more passengers than JU). That is not the fact, and you did not read this here!
And to say that OU have more passengers that JU, and that Serbia is on 100 position by World Bank is not nationalism. Those are published facts. Nationalisam is to say those data not true or relevant.
Give Air Serbia until the summer season. They will finish this year with around 1.370.000 and next year I am sure it will go to at least 1.600.000. So the gap is getting tighter.
Delete@ nemjee
DeleteI'm confused to what you mean by 'your kind'. This is the type of bigotry which at times slips from you that got a reaction from me in the first place. In saying that, you did seem to try to be a little more balanced in your latest commentary which is appreciated.
I am truly happy that your over enthusiastic about Air Serbia but you must realise that this will cause you to have an biased opinion on that subject which again is fine until you try to state is as fact. This than opens you to criticism especially when you try to state your opinion of Croatian aviation as fact with comments like,’ Zagreb has no aviation future’ or ‘OU will go belly up soon’.
Purger who many here recognise as someone who has a fairly good understanding of Croatian Aviation just today stated that 75% of people from Zagreb and the Zagreb area do not use Zagreb airport to fly from. If this is the case than Zagreb's real current potential is huge!
Even though both Croatia and Serbia are experiencing economic problems, they are not comparable. Serbia has been in major recovery mode and as a result are still playing catch up. There is still a gap between the relative numbers of air travellers of Croatia and other countries within the region compared to Serbia per capita, and with Air Serbia's expansion as well as Belgrade being a well-managed airport will ensure good growth at this time despite the economic situation.
Zagreb’s stagnation and current decline is absolutely related to both the economic climate because Zagreb is an expensive airport to fly to and people are saving money wherever they can and Croatia Airlines. OU reduced capacity by 20% and this had a huge impact on Zagreb.
Q400,
DeleteYour kind, the one that predicts Air Serbia's future as nothing but gloom and doom. I do not see what kind of bigotry you are talking about or are you implying that I put all of you Croats together in one same basket? lol
Please, do tell me what I really wanted to say. You seem to know it better. ;)
Yes and I firmly believe that Croatia Airlines WILL go belly up if it remains Lufthansa's pet. I have given so many arguments in the past to back this- I doubt you can call me biased. The same way I said Zagreb is a black hole and that the future is on the country's coast. I will be proven right over the course of the next few years when Dubrovnik, Split... continue to thrive while Zagreb's growth, more or less, advances at glacial pace. How am I am biased exactly by stating that?! If I said that the entire country's aviation has no future or that the coast will not see any passenger growth then you could call me anything you want.
But it seems that I am biased because I do not believe that OU has a future or that Zagreb will magically become some sort of regional hegemon the moment the new terminal opens its doors. Well, you know something, it won't. You called me a bigot, but I think you are a bigger one because you see that I am a Serb who believes something is not functioning well in Zagreb so you immediately accuse me of being a Serb chauvinist who can't deal with the fact that something positive is happening in Croatia. Yeah... sure. lol
Ok - does any of you get that Air Serbia's future has very little to do with Serbia as a country? Air Serbia is bound to be a TRANSFER COMPANY! Get it in your head! It has as much to with Serbia as Emirates has with Dubai or Ethiopian with ADD (or TK with IST for the matter). None of these networks would be viable without the transfer pax. Actually, for your information, the only long-haul routes that TK could sustain based on O&D are New York and Tokyo! How would you explain that dirt-poor Ethiopia (173rd on HDI) has a fleet of 60 a/c flying to 5 continents? Well-managed, well-funded - that's it, could be in devil's ass if you ask me!
DeleteSo open your eyes and stop associating the company with the given country whose name it bears cause commercially (besides the locally-inspired cuisine) it doesn't mean absolutely anything.
Very good point about Ethiopia and its national airline.
DeleteWhere is JU summer season time table?
ReplyDeleteIt was supposed to be in the system by Friday... They probably moved it to another day.
DeleteThey again moved something to another day?
Delete- they moved aircraft delivery
- they moved start of routes
- they moved start of sealing ticket
- now they moved summer time table...
...that becomes regular practice.
Nemjee, Purger, Ex-Yu aviation Admin, I really enjoy reading your comments, keep up the good work! Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to everyone! love the vintage photo!
ReplyDeleteGood luck Zagreb and other airports, hope for more good news to come!
Agree, great Ex Yu vintage pic!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteSome people here make me sick with their idiotic talk...
ReplyDeleteI'm Croat, born and raised, been to homeland war but I don't give A FUCK (oprosti admine!!!) about bloody past!
Sretni blagdani svim ljudima dobre volje.
P.s. Imam puno komentara na svaku temu ali ne želim trošiti tipkovnicu na vaša prepucavanja oko nacionalizma i kompanija u kojoj vas 90% ne može letjeti jer nema ni za krafnu.
I have a quick solution for that and already submitted it to the moderator. Croatia and Slovenia should be excluded from this blog from the New Year while Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova and some others should join for it to become "Eastern European Aviation blog" news. It just doesn't make any sense to keep it this way.
DeleteI propose a poll being held in relation to this.
DeleteTo separate the things should be better for everyone.
DeleteNo, if you ask me it's the worst solution... I just want to people to start accepting other people opionions...
ReplyDeleteIf I say that Air Serbia won't bring to Serbia as much as everyone thinks it will I don't want to be "pokopan živ" 'cause I said it...
Also, if someone says that OU is LH's toy I don't attack that person, I try to tell my arguments and that's it.
Conversation, or as would Limun say "jeste vi čuli za nenasilnu komuniaciju?"
Well, let's resolve it by a poll, if the mod. agrees, right? Let it be the next poll. That's the democracy you're speaking about after all, through what you imply.
DeleteThe problem is that most people make statements without backing them with facts and ideas. For example some people on here have been saying that Air Serbia will fail miserably but 99% of them have not given any hardcore facts to back what they are saying. At least for me, that's the biggest problem.
Delete...and someone has been saying that LF on Air Serbia should be huge because noname in check-in said that LF on one flight was 100%.
Delete1. Have some decency to at least have a name when attacking/mocking other people.
Delete2. The check-in man has the information in his computer and these information were later on confirmed to me by my sister who was sitting on the plane.
And I never said that the overall loadfactor has to be high just because one flight to Larnaca has been fully booked. I said that I am surprised that some random person wrote on here that JU's December loadfactor was 48% and all the haters started bashing the airline. It was some random anonymous and for all I know, it could have been you trying to spread false information about the carrier. That's why I said that we should wait for the airline to publish its December numbers.
Anyway, this blog reported that in the first 20 days JU's passenger numbers rose by 25%. That means that the airline will handle roughly 110.000, up from 86.500 last year. If that's not an impressive result then I don't know what is.
But number of operation increase 50%. So LF would be again on some 55% level.
DeleteOfcourse, it's ok by me. But then you have to open a new blog with a new adress, since Croatia and Slovenia are in this "exyu" part :D
ReplyDeleteNo kidding. That's up to the mod to decide, who is - a Serb. You're out of luck on that. As for what concerns me, i already reduced my presence on this blog considerably and have zero interest in reading these disputes or 'news' from the dead aviation markets of Slovenia and Croatia.
DeleteI mean - if you separated from the country, why you want to be on the blog?
DeleteBecause it is not YU blog, but EX YU aviation blog!!!!
Delete...and you should also act as EX YU blog what is not Yugoslavian or big Serbian blog!
I have a better suggestion. Close the comment section until WE the ExYu people open our eyes that have been filled with nationalist crap.
ReplyDeleteIn the end we are a bunch of hypocrites that would have 'prodali svoju mati' to fly the cheapest way
Lets not waste our precious time on hating each other, there is more to life my friends.
Vrijeme je da ne samo starimo nego da i narastemo
Anyway... I just took my sister to the airport and they told me at the check-in that the flight was 100% full. Most passengers were actually transit with maybe 20 being from here.
ReplyDeleteAnother interesting thing was that there was a Romanian minibus from Timisoara that took about 20 passengers or so from a Malmö and a few other flights.They regularly bring people to Belgrade airport.
where did she fly to?
DeleteHahahah ooups... sorry. She went to Larnaca.
DeleteI can also add that a friend of mine flew from Prague to Belgrade last night and the flight was 100%. It's really good especially since the route is two weeks old.
DeleteThat is really great! Then why some people are saying JU planes fly empty? Someone mentioned average LF is around 50%.
DeleteI hope this full planes means big profit as well.
Any info when we can expact new destinations in the system?
The 48% loadfactor for December was posted on here by an anonymous, we cannot know if it's credible or not. I guess we have to wait for the end of the month.
DeleteLarnaca has been going up and down. Some flights have been fully booked while some others were 15%. London Heathrow was 75% full four days ago. I don't know which routes have to be practically empty for them to have such a low loadfactor. Would be great if someone with actual insight knew better.
Abu Dhabi is probably at 20 percent full now and also Banja Luka is not going great.
DeleteSo, fact is information from some person in check in that flight is 100% full. I presume that 55% LF in November was misinformation by those who plot against Air Serbia.
DeleteWhat you presume is that 55% or any other percentage at this stage of operations is something to base general conclusions and forecast the fate of the carrier. And that presumption is simply wrong.
DeleteWhat I presume is that LF is bad at this moment nothing else. And that 100% LF on one route, if that was even 100% as it was information from nonname, does not means anything good for disaster LF Air Serbia has in this moment.
DeleteWill LF be better in near future? Maybe, but in same time we are talking about little potential number of passengers because of low standard in Serbia, low business and low tourism, so it is also possible that LF would not be much better than one from November.
And, if not, can this business model survive?
Well, I also spoke with people who work for the airline in Cyprus (both in their offices and the airport) and they all told me that the airline is seeing its passenger numbers surge when compared to the same period last year. I have explained over and over again why Larnaca will be a cash-cow for Air Serbia.
DeleteLet's also not forget that Larnaca airport does become quite slow during November and early December when passenger numbers fall to about 200.000 per month. Plus, Air Serbia got a pretty sweet deal from Larnaca airport so the fact that their planes are not 80% full all the time does not mean that the yields are trash. The same way Turkish Airlines can make a ton of money by flying its B737-800 on six hour African adventures and still make cash. Good loads do not mean good yields the same way bad loads do not mean bad yields.
At times I feel that some people on this blog expect Air Serbia to launch all these new flights and to immediately record a loadfactor of 75%. Well, it doesn't work like that. All new routes take time to mature. We all remember when flydubai launched Belgrade flights. Their loadfactor was 47% and everyone on here said how in a few months they will fail and how Belgrade can't fill the plane. Two years later the route is still here despite all the competition it faces. So what's so different about Air Serbia's routes? I think we should talk in a few months from now. ;)
Of course not! But with this actions 1+1, so huge marketing, low prices (to some destination they fly for 100 EUR) they should have at least 65%. And 65% today is not good for business. Everything else is very bad.
DeleteThe 1+1 was only for two days and was on sale in JU's downtown office. I doubt thousands and thousands could buy their tickets that way. Also, the last promotional campaign was for February, so it will not affect December numbers. However so far we have:
DeleteNovember: +12%
December: +25%
And operation
DeleteNovember: +24%
December: +50%
...on that way LF is 55, 50, 45%???
Where did you get that the loadfactor was only 45% ?
Delete