Germany’s Lufthansa does not plan to restore a select number of its routes to points in the former Yugoslavia until the start of the 2020/2021 winter season. The carrier announced it has finalised its network until late October, however, no flights have been scheduled from Munich to Sarajevo, Ljubljana and Rijeka, as well as from Frankfurt to Zagreb. The carrier is offering services to Sarajevo through its Group partner Austrian Airlines via Vienna, while operations to Ljubljana are being sold via Frankfurt, from which it has resumed operations to the Slovenian capital. Lufthansa is offering flights to Zagreb through its codeshare partner Croatia Airlines, as well as via its Munich hub.
Until the start of the winter season in late October, Lufthansa plans to offer a total of 2.100 flights on short- and medium-haul routes. The carrier will serve 105 destinations from Frankfurt and a further ninety from Munich. Since June 20, Lufthansa has restored services from Frankfurt to Belgrade, Ljubljana, Dubrovnik, Zadar and Pula and from Munich to Belgrade, Split, Dubrovnik, Zadar and Pula. Most are operating at a reduced frequency when compared to last summer. Seasonal flights from Frankfurt and Munich to Tivat have been discontinued for this year with alternatives offered through Eurowings.
Lufthansa has launched a second set of measures under its comprehensive restructuring program this week. They include a cut of 1.000 administrative posts and the retirement of 22 aircraft, including eleven Airbus A320s, six A380s and five Boeing 747-800s. The company noted that its financing is secure after its shareholders approved the German Federal Government’s stabilisation measures. The stabilisation package, worth nine billion euros, comes with a set of conditions, including a temporary 20% stake in the company and two seats on its supervisory board for the German government, as well as the need for Lufthansa to transfer up to 24 take-off and landing slots at Frankfurt and Munich airports to a new competitor.
I'm surprised by some of those routes. I would expect them to restart FRA-ZAG and FRA-LJU. Also pity about Sarajevo.
ReplyDeleteFRA-LJU has been restored. MUC-LJU hasn't.
DeleteYes, sorry I meant MUC-LJU not FRA-LJU.
DeleteFRA-ZAG is perfectly catered for by OU 3x a day, which ist more than enough to say the least.
Delete^ I agree but does that mean we might not see LH resume this route since it seems Croatia Airlines has completely taken it over?
DeleteWhy was it then 5 times daily?
DeleteThey had nothing to do with th eplanes so LH decided to send them to ZAG, just for fun?
It was 5 daily because there was more demand than there is now. Furthermore, in recent times LH had downgraded FRA-ZAG to E95. Obviously it was not performing as expecting or they preferred to have OU fly passengers for next to nothing.
DeleteI believe the following is the correct:
Delete"they preferred to have OU fly passengers for next to nothing."
If the situaation had been different they would have flown 2xLH + 1xOU daily.
Remember what Kucko said, all flights in winter are not profitable including MUC, FRA, VIE, ZRH... so it's safe to assume that LH is ripping them off. I am not surprised though.
DeleteCould some of the take off slots they have to give up be related to some of these ex-Yu destinations?
ReplyDeleteHighly doubt it.
DeleteLufthansa is the only serious choice from Sarajevo to western Europe besides Austrian. Real shame :(
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteAs far as I'm aware EU citizen also can't enter Bosnia?
DeleteOnly those that are Bosnian citizens.
DeleteIt would be cool to have 2x daily to VIE, and at least 1x daily to MUC and FRA.
DeleteYes the problem is EU citizens aren't allowed to enter Bosnia.
DeleteIt's a shame as Lufthansa planned on operating double daily to Sarajevo this summer.
Let's hope they come back in winter.
ReplyDeleteWill Croatia Airlines increase ZAG-FRA?
ReplyDeleteOr what is the current frequnecy?
Delete3 daily
DeleteThat's more than enough.
DeleteThat would mean they have restored their pre-corona frequnecies, right?
DeleteThere were more daily frequncies at the time both LH and OU flew ZAG-FRA
DeleteInteresting. How many flights were there before?
DeleteAltogether there were 5 daily flights between ZAG and FRA before Corona. Now OU operates 3 daily with them increasing to 4 daily on select weekdays. This is really astonishing considering other much bigger destintions like BCN or MAD have "only" 2 daily ex FRA.
DeleteWhat? LH had 2 daily from FRA to BCN before crisis?
DeleteThey flew at least 10 times daily FRA-BCN and most often with A321.
So they have given up on Montenegrin market completely and on Bosnian market until winter.
ReplyDeleteThey were flying two weekly flights in total to Tivat for a couple of months a year. It's not really a major loss in the grand scheme of things.
DeleteRemember, you can't travel with LH to the United States unless you are a US citizen/resident as you would be transferring through a Scengen state and flying from a Schengen state to the US is not permitted.
ReplyDeleteTrue, this probably has a big impact.
DeleteNot just USA but also no entry into Canada either which is another major market to which ex-Yugos fly to with Lufty.
DeleteThe Tivat flights didn't connect onto anything so it was purely for German tourists.
DeleteAt one per week it was unlikely to think they were targeting transfers.
DeleteThis is actually wrong. When transferring at a Schengen airport coming off a non-Schengen flight, you aren't actually entering Schengen, there is no border control. The ban doesn't apply in this case. Only your country of departure is what matters.
DeleteOk, I wasn't aware of that. I though it also applied if you are transferring through Schengen. My mistake.
DeleteGuys, I would appreciate any help. I know it's not the topic, but it is important.
DeleteDoes anyone know with 100% certainty if Croatian citizens can travel and enter US with their regular tourist visa? That first comment threw me off, but looks like it is debunked.
Which is true?
You can not travel to USA with tourist visa . They only accept USA passport holders, some with PR status and essential workers.
DeleteDo you have any official link that supports that?
DeleteThe person that is trying to fly there is married to a US citizen and the marriage was done in Croatia. They started their marriage approval through the Embassy last May and they are still waiting for the confirmation. Does that make any difference? The Embassy in Zagreb is clueless.
The embassy in Zagreb were clueless because the US itself has became a clueless nation. Did you try asking the US embassy in VIE?
DeleteConsidering the decline in demand it is expected.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I'm surprised they have kept this many routes and frequencies considering how many transfer passengers they handle, which have for the most part disappeared during this crisis.
DeleteI find it really odd that they have never launched flights from Frankfurt to Sarajevo. What's the deal?
ReplyDeleteOr that they have never flown to Skopje
DeleteThey used to fly to Skopje years ago. I think around the early 2000s.
DeleteThey have handed over the Balkans more or less to Austrian.
DeleteLH is more and more shifting capacity to MUC.
DeleteWould love to see them connecting MUN & FRA with SKP, I think business travelers would be happy to avoid flying W6 to Hahn or Memmingen.
Delete9 billion euros in state aid!!! That is just beyond massive.
ReplyDeleteWhat did people expect? That routes and frequencies would magically resume to pre-corona times. We should be happy with what we have.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone expected that...
DeleteMunich - Tivat and Rijeka, as well as Frankfurt - Tivat are really not a surprise since they were since these were routes launched just last year.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately it seems Rijeka might completely loose the Munich flights since OU is unsure whether they will resume them.
ReplyDeleteI would really like to see more of Lufthansa mainline in the region. TNo flights to Podgorica, Pristina or Skopje.
ReplyDeleteThere simply isn't enough demand. Not before and especially not now.
DeleteBack in 2011 PRN airport announced that LH was starting DUS-PRN. It never happened in the end.
DeleteEurowings cancelled Dusseldorf-Skopje before it even started so I doubt we will be seeing Lufthansa anytime soon.
DeleteEurowings is not Lufthansa. Eurowings never announced Düsseldorf-Skopje (it was Munich). The only route where they could have a small chance against Wizz is ironically Düssedorf - Skopje. OS, OU and since lately also JU are all growing at SKP because the transfer market is also steadily growing. this is where LH can step in.
Delete@9.23 too funny to call there is no demand when Wizz is operating to 11 german airports (count SZG as nr.12) from SKP and PRN has daily flights to STR and DUS and numerous to MUC and FRA.
I think there is still room for OS to go double daily to SKP and then we might see LH.
Delete@9.45 I agree there is demand from Skopje to Germany but it is so well covered by Wizz Air, would there be an opportunity for Lufthansa?
DeleteMaybe at least seasonal OHD-FRA or/and OHD-MUC would work.
DeleteQuite interesting... There was never demand for LH flights to FRA from PRN, but somehow there is a demand for direct flights to JFK. These comments here are really interesting...
DeleteFRA-ZAG is a big blow because LH is a premium global carrier.
ReplyDeleteIt's a big blow because of connectivity. No one cares about "premium" except a few bots on this blog that probably fly 2-3 times a year.
DeleteIt is really shame LH does not fly anymore direct from ZAG to FRA.
DeleteIt is a blow for connectivity. Big blow.
Croatia has 3 flights per day from Zagreb in code-share with Lufthansa. More than enough for good connectivity. There is no difference in LH ou OU flights on ZAG-FRA routes.
DeleteSo it is not blow at all.
Purger then why were you obsessing in the past how it's a big deal that BEG didn't have AF and how the codeshare agreement with JU was not the same? Double standards I guess.
DeleteExcellent anon 14:37.
DeleteSame argument was used for AMS with KL despite that fact that JU and Transavia fly with code share to AMS.
You can be sure Purger won't reply to you.
When you have less demand in the world because of pandemic and travel restrictions ofcourse that you will have less flights on some routes. Decrease from 5 daily with A319 to 2 daily with A320 + 1 daily with A319 is not bad at all. You have less demand so you have less flights because nobody is so crazy to fly empty planes. Nothing weird. LH will be back next year when air travel recovers and you will again have 5 daily to FRA. I really dont know who was talking about flights from AMS to BEG during this COVID-19 pandemic. And please, just stop thinking that Purger hates BEG or serbian aviation. If he thinks that sometimes there should be more flights to some destinations from BEG that doesnt mean he is a hater of BEG or something else.
DeleteYou missed the point.
DeleteIf you have less flights or less air carriers who fly on some route it means worse connectivity. No matter if it is crisis or not. Simple as that.
Anon 14:37 indicated how Purger used double standards. At the time when AF did not fly to BEG no matter JU had 10 weekly flights to CDG with AF codeshare he was tiredlessly repeating that BEG had bad connetivity as AF does not fly to BEG and that code share is not the same like flying with your own metal. And look at it now. As soon as ZAG got in the situation to lose LH on FRA route he drastically changed his story.
Absolutely the same situation was with KL in BEG. No KLM in BEG means bad connectvity. No matter that JU and Transavia flew to AMS with KL code share.
You see the point now?
I see it now, thank you. I missed the point he was trying to make. It's really not nice of Purger if that's true.
DeletePurger still waiting for your response.
DeleteYou have worse connectivity during a crisis because there is no demand. You cannot go to USA and many other countries because of travel restrictions so you dont need so much flights to FRA. When you have less destinations to fly there you dont need so much flights. Having 5 daily to FRA has no any senese if there are no so much options to connect. I really dont know were you see doble standards in Purgers statements. Im reading his blog, and I know what he was talking about when he was talking about AF in BEG. Having one carrier with less options on one route is not the same as having 2 carriers with more options. I really dont know where he said that AF and JU to CDG are different, exept in service maybe. More carriers means more flights what means better connectivity. Having only JU on route with daily flights is not the same as JU and AF together flying double daily. And i really never heard that Transavia offers connections. When you try to book Transavias flights from AMS to BEG you can do it only on Transavias web page, not on KLM ones where you are able to book connecting flights and codeshare flights.
DeleteOf course you can not put in same pot Covid-19 situation and "normal days". In April even biggest enemy collaborate on one route. Till situation will be near to normal companies have to collaborate and use more of code-share especially in alliances. You can read about it in my article on 14th April:
Deletehttps://tangosix.rs/2020/14/04/kolumna-alena-scurica-kakav-ce-biti-zracni-promet-nakon-korona-virusa/
Quote:
"U prvih par mjeseci smanjit će se joint venture u prvom redu radi smanjenja frekvencija i linija. On je i dalje na snazi, no, trenutno je vrlo skroman i ne donosi ozbiljne benefite kompanijama koje su u njemu. Suprotno tome povećava se suradnja unutar tri alijanse, kao i code-share letovi. Tko god u ovom momentu leti ima ogroman broj kodova na svojim letovima. I interline sporazumi su vrlo aktivni, jer jednostavno kompanije nemaju alternativa. Ovo se posebno odnosi na konektirane letove i rerutiranja koja su sada vrlo limitirana. Blisko surađuju čak i donedavni najljući neprijatelji, te su sinkronizirali redove letenja i surađuju na pojedinim linijama kako bi zajedno smanjili broj frekvencija i istime umanjili gubitke linije.
Ova prakse se neće zadržati dugo, čim se povećaju linije i frekvencije (vjerojatno tijekom ljeta) ova neprijateljska suradnja iz nužda će se prekinuti i vrlo brzo će se nastaviti globalni rat, konsolidacija i pokušaj stvaranja što boljih pozicija i preuzimanja tržišta, no upravo zato će code-share i suradnja unutar alijansama još neko vrijeme biti intenzivna, a potom će se maksimalno aktivirati joint-venture sa ciljem dalje globalizacije i konsolidacije. Ovo će biti još bitno jače nego prije, a u konačnici će suradnja među alijansama biti i slabija, a joint venture jači nego prije, u prvom redu sa dugoročnim ciljem konsolidacije i uništavanja manjih prijevoznika."
P.S.
Please do not be childish in your comments. I will not communicate on that way. Thank you in advance.
The only childish person here is you when you get caught with your fingers in a cookie jar. For years we have been reading how ZAG has the most premium and legacy heavy list of airlines and how even though JU code-shares with AF and KL it's still not the same. So now we read that you, as a Croat, state that it's perfectly reasonable that there is no LH from FRA to ZAG and that there is no difference between OU and LH!!! That's the very definition of double standards.
DeleteAnd it doesn't matter what the reason is for LH not flying to ZAG from FRA, point is that they are doing it from MUC despite OU flying there. So it's more than just covid here.
Please don't be a hypocrite, it's not a nice thing.
Anon 22.35
DeleteSo just because you don't know something it means it doesn't exist or that it's not true? If you book US flights on Delta they sell BEG-AMS on both JU (KL code) and Transavia, same thing if you do it via www.klm.com.
I tried to book Transavia flights on www.klm.com on these days when Transavia is fliying to BEG and it was not possibile. In offer where only JU flights with KL codeshare.
DeleteWhat a pathetic reply from Purger.
DeleteInstead of providing the reply why he keeps double standards he quotes his own articles.
Really hilarious.
Let's not forget that before crisis LH downgraded ZAG to E95.
DeleteIt seems out friend intentionally ignored that fact.
You are really hilarious because of comparing someones aviation statments made before demand decline and after demand decline in aviation.
Delete"Let's not forget that before crisis LH downgraded ZAG to E95." It was upgraded from CRJ 1000 from Air Nostrum to LH A319 around winter holidays and after was downgraded to E195. So actually is more 15 per flight in comparasion to Air Nosrrum operated flights. And i really dont know why are you talking about this. It has no conection to ZAG -FRA flights during a crisis or Purgers statments about AF in Belgrade. Maybe you left out of arguments.
DeleteP.S. It seams to me really useful to have AF in BEG and more daily flights to CDG. It offers beter connectivity to the world.
You try to manipulste with facts.
DeleteIncrease was done during winter holidays and returned to smaller E95. Fact.
If you did not understand Purger's intention to belittle BEG with the same arguments he tried to justify losing LH flight FRA-ZAG I really can't help you.
Missed connection is missed connection however you call it.
And let me quote famous Purger's statement: "Flying your own plane is very different from codeshare".
Except in the case when ZAG is affected.
Losing LH in ZAG for couple of months because of less demand and disabilty of flying to USA and other markets because of EU ban is totally justified. 3 daily flights to FRA with codeshare is really something normal these days when you have less connecting options because of closing some countries. Comparing connectivity of ZAG during pandemic and travel restrictions with connectivity BEG before pandemic when everyone are saying "the most successful airport", "thriving airport" and "growing transfer hub" is actually using of double standards.
DeleteBEG is/was the most successful airport in ex-Yu. No matter if you like it or not.
DeleteZAG is not losing LH. Please try at least to understand what we talk about here. LH still flies from MUC to ZAG despite the fact the OU also flies to this destination. And it's all fine for ZAG fan boys. As you say "something normal".
From the other side LH first downgrades ZAG from FRA and after crisis started totally stops flying to Croatian capital. Also "something normal".
No matter what happened it is "something normal" for you no matter that actions are totally opposite.
Let's not forget that FRA is bigger than MUC and it would be logical to keep ZAG from their biggest hub. Didn't happen.
So, your attempts to justify the fact that ZAG became less significant to LH even before the crisis and especially now during the crisis are really childish.
Zagreb was never significant destination to LH because they can manipulate with OU to feed their network. Flying 2 daily with CRJ 1000/E95/A319 was always a joke. They were changing equipment constantly, so actualy when you compare capacity in fall 2019 with spring/winter 2020. you will see that it is larger for 15 seats per flight. They are back to MUC because it is larger P2P destination then FRA and OU was always flying less there then to FRA, same as LH was always flying more flights to MUC then FRA. After they lose much of the routes to the world they do not need so much flights from FRA. Even to BEG they are operating only 3 weakly. Their network significantly became smaller because of travel restrictions and bans. I really do not understand where you find that im am "ZAG fanboy" because nobody is so crazy to be a fan of airport with 2% of growth per year. And about BEG, it is the most succesful airport in some categories and is great to it constatly expanding, but it would be weird to see that it is not the largest one when it is literaly the only airport in country of 7 milion people what means that serbian aviation is extremly centralized on BEG which is not the case in Croatia.
Delete*great to see it
Delete*literally
*million
Yes and no.
DeleteIt should not be forgotten that MUC as destination can be easily reached for P2P passengers from ZAG by car (5-6 hours driving) where you do not have luggage limitations speaks that after all MUC is not only P2P destination.
Please do not forget that despite BEG is the main airport in the country of 7 million people many of the regions in Serbia gravitate to the airport in neighbour countries. Northern parts of Serbia (Subotica and Sombor region) gravitae to BUD, Banat region gravitates to TSR (many LCC's), western Serbia has TZL as alternative, south east Serbia gets easier to SOF than to BEG etc. It means that Serbia is not an sland so that everyone needs to fly from its capital in order to reach some foreign country.
BEG built its numbers based on the strongest air carrier in ex-Yu that provides many transfers, based on big diaspora, increased tourism and based on the fact that purchasing power in Serbia got increased comparing with previous years.
Unfortunately you fall in the same trap like Purger comparing situation in Croatia and Serbia. It simply can't be done, but certain experts reject to see it as it does not speak in the favor of Croatia. The fact is that BEG is the main airport in the country because Serbia is landlocked country and does not have the coast. It is not the situation in Croatia.
Access to the sea coast drastically changes the conditions for comparision. Do you know that Antalya (Turkish almost village with developed tourism) has more passengers than Brussels, capital of EU? It shows you the best how unjustified is comparision between certain countries/airports which have totally different positions and profiles.
If Croatia had been landlocked country like Serbia is there would have been only 1 main airport (ZAG) and one mostly for LCC's (OSI) like you have in Serbia BEG and INI.
There would be no difference at all.
And what are you proving with this? That Serbian aviation in more successful just because it has no coast? You forget that most of tourist to croatian coast are coming with car not with an airplane because it is near to largest markets like Germany, Italy, Austria etc. And you think that there is no other airport outside Croatia where people are going only for flights? Budapest is easly rechable with motorway from Northern Croatia, Slavonia is near Belgrade, from Istria, Kvarner and Zagreb you dont need so much time to get to Venice, near Dubrovnik is Tivat... You also forget the fact that Serbia has 7 million people and Croatia just 4. For diaspora there is only 4-5 hours with bus to get to Bavaria were a lot of croatian people live and work, from Serbia you need at least 10 h with bus, in some cases more so they would rather use airplane. And if you are talking just like that how Croatian aviation would have same number of passangers if there was no coast, can i say the same for Serbia if it was poart of Siberia there will be no more then 10.000 passangers? Your comparasion is really patethic and you cannot go over the fact that croatian aviation is more successful then serbian one.
DeleteTheir coverage in Croatia is impressive, even if it is mostly seasonal. I'm sure FRA-ZAG will be back in winter and Rijeka next summer.
ReplyDeleteThe Lufthansa livery is so ugly.
ReplyDeleteDoes Lufthansa fly nonstop European flights from any other city other than Munich and Frankfurt?
ReplyDeleteNo. Their hubs are FRA and MUC. They use Eurowings from other airports in Germany.
DeleteInteresting. Thank you for the info.
DeleteI am now curious whether you discuss pre-corona or post-crisis time. Because as far as I remember, LH had hundreds of services to numerous European destinations from Berlin Tegel, Hamburg, Hannover, Dusseldorf, Stuttgart, Cologne, Nuremberg......, pre-corona, of course
DeleteWhat are you talking about. From these flights LH flew probably only in 80's before making hub & spoke model in FRA and MUC. ( there wers actually some flights from TXL in early 2010's but all were cannceled 5 years ago)
DeleteUnlike most of the visitors here I am willing to admit making mistake and being wrong. And yes, I am wrong this time. I completely forgot LH changed the strategy on domestic market some time ago, and yes, you are right mentioning 2010, maybe even few years before, when Eurowings took over flights from the airports other than FRA, MUC and TXL. However, I still believe they operated internationally from most of the German airports much longer than 1980's
Delete
ReplyDeleteThat is bad news for Lufthansa!
I would really like to see more of Lufthansa mainline in the region.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like it's going in the opposite direction.
DeleteYes, unfortunately :(
DeleteEx-Yu is a very cost sensitive market. There is a greater chance of seeing Eurowings more in the region in the future.
Delete@10.26 eurowings you will see only to Croatia where there is no Wizz
DeleteWould be nice to have lufthansa fly to skopje and prishtina. Now unfortunately, I don't think we will see them for some time.
ReplyDeleteunfortunately
DeleteHas LH flown to PRN in the past?
DeleteNope
DeleteBad news for the airports and passengers.
ReplyDeleteI doubt there loads are great on the flights they are operating except maybe to the Cro. coast.
ReplyDeleteIt is possible that they may reconsider some of these. We will see.
ReplyDeleteWhat aircraft does OU use to FRA from ZAG? A320?
ReplyDeleteMostly A319, sometimes during February Q400.
DeleteYesterday there were three flights, two on Q400 and one on A319. I guess from August BEG will have the most seats from FRA in ex-YU. That's a first.
DeleteMostly A320 and A319:
DeleteOU416 last 7 days:
A319
DH8
A319
DH8
A319
A319
A319
OU408:
319
319
DH8
319
319
320
319
OU414
319
DH8
319
320
DH8
DH8
DH8
So out of 21 flights
12x 319
2x 320
7x DH8
During July and August A319 and A320 are mostly planed, DH8 very rarely. In future 7 days:
18x A319
3x A320
Hahaahahah. October?
ReplyDeleteOctober everything will be locked again.
yea, sure
Delete