The Slovenian government is once again considering setting up a new national carrier with a private partner and has provisionally set aside seventy million euros for the project as part of measures to mitigate and remedy the consequences of the Covid-19 pandemic. "This plan allows for both subsidies and repayable funds, which means that the state can be involved in the founding of a flag carrier or participate in its establishment in various ways, such as loans and equity", the Slovenian Ministry for Economy said. According to the daily “Delo” newspaper, discussions over the ownership structure of the potential new carrier are still ongoing. The Ministry noted that plans surrounding the new airline will not impact on its initiative to provide foreign carriers with a six-million-euro subsidy in order to maintain flights to Ljubljana.
The Ministry for Economy said various private stakeholders are interested in cooperating with the state in establishing a national airline, including local companies, as well as Croatia Airlines. "A decision over a partner has not been made yet", the Ministry said. Slovenian cargo operator Solinair previously outlined its willingness to set up a new flag carrier if the state were to partially invest in the company. At the time, it said it would seek an agreement with the Lufthansa Group for the new airline to take over their routes to Ljubljana, including Lufthansa’s flights from Frankfurt and Munich, Swiss’ from Zurich and Brussels Airlines’ service from the Belgian capital. In addition, the airline, dubbed Air Slovenia, would link Ljubljana with Amsterdam, Skopje, Tirana and Pristina.
Late last year, following Adria Airways’ bankruptcy, the Slovenian state-owned Bank Assets Management Company (BAMC) drafted a business plan for the country’s potential new national airline. Under the proposal, the carrier would reportedly operate a fleet of five aircraft and count some 200 employees. Based on the Assets Management Company’s calculations at the time, the airline was estimated to record a twenty-million-euro loss in its first year of operation.
Government finally coming to its senses.
ReplyDeleteCrazy plan it is.
DeleteJust another Adria 2.0 ... game over.
Focus on corona relief now and stop playing old cheaters games.
@anon 14:23
Deleteit's much better now when we have 3 flights per day, right?
Here we go again
ReplyDeletelet's just forget about it...we are talking here about same people that are responsible for collapse of Adria :-(
Deleteyou are right...maybe the will name Bostjancic or Kowarsch for CEO :-)...what a nonsense...
Delete4k was responsible for demise of JP and I doubt they are participating in this project. So you are talking nonsense..
Deletealso Bratušek and Šarec have a smaller chance of screwing it up this time
Deletebad idea. a waste of taxpayers money. again. as if there wasn't already a waste of taxpayers money once before. not once, but multiple times before… don't they ever learn?
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteOh be quiet, better 70mil for new airline and not 780mil for useless army vehicles
Deletei don't support 780m for army either. it's a waste of taxpayers money as well.
Deletethose 70m could be invested in healtcare, infrastructure, …. a bunch of other more important things. let the market do it's thing once things go back to normal after covid. strong survive, weak die. that's how it should be. and we don't have the experties to make a strong player. so better not trying and better saving that money and putting it elsewhere where it's much more needed.
Bunch of ignorants ruling the country. Unbelievable....
Delete"Market do its thing"
DeleteYeah we saw that, a couple of LH flights
It was more than "a couple of LH flights". Most destinations restored and on track for Adria pax levels by 2021, but more importantly, people were seeing ticket prices they could afford.
DeletePeople obviously forget that this year is the worst for the aviation.
Delete"most destinations restored" yeah, like which? Only Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich and Brussels. Vienna (14x p/w), Prague (5x p/w) Pristina (14x p/w), Copenhagen (7x p/w), Sarajevo (7x p/w), Tirana (14x p/w), Sofia (3x p/w), Skopje (14x p/w) are gone. Frankfurt should be 21x p/w, now 14x p/w, Brussels 13x p/w, now 6x p/w, Munich 19x p/w, now 7x p/w, Zurich 21x p/w, now 7x p/w. Also we could have flights to Brač, Bucharest, Dubrovnik, Geneva, Hambourg, Manchester, Dusseldorf and more flights to Amsterdam, Warsaw, Tel Aviv, Paris, Moscow, if Adria wouldnt cancel these routes. So idk about "most destinations were restored"
DeleteDo you really think there is enough demand for TIA or PRN 14 pw in these times?
DeleteYou can't really compare 2019 and 2020 unfortunately.
Most of these balkan flights were useless for locals because they were mostly carrying transfers. And again i will say the same thing, you cannot expect recovery from Adrias bancruptcy when there is global pandemic going on. Same as you cannot compare number of flights now when pandemic is going on with numbers of fligts before.
DeleteThat's not true, transfers on Balkan flights was around 50 %. There is huge amount of ex-yu nation living in Slovenia (Albanians, Macedonians,...) and even Slovenian companies did invest in companies in exyu countries (NLB, Petrol, Telekom,...)
Delete@anon 10:35
DeleteWho said that we need 14 pw flights to PRN/TIA? Right now we don't need many of them, but when this is over Slovenia need good connections to other countries and without airline base in LJU this not possible.
Everything is a waste of taxpayers money.
DeleteWhat was the point of closing Adria then? Better to have given money and let the company stay afloat. Now you have to secure new leases, staff, IATA desingation etc.
ReplyDeleteIt would cost 100m just to pay off Adria's debt. Plus a large amount for it to survive during 2020.
DeleteAgree. It was pointless bankrupting Adria if you are going to throw even more money into a start up.
DeleteIt is definitely cheaper than wasting 100 million EUR just to cover Adria's debt.
DeleteWhat Adria was only asking for was a 4 million eur bridge loan )it would have been paid back in a month) so that it could be sold to the parent of cityjet, but Šarec didnt want to do it for political reasons.
Deletei hope Šarec and Bratušek won't get another chance of screwing air connectivity again.
Delete+10000
Delete70 million euros is nowhere near enough to start up a carrier.
ReplyDeleteThe rest would come from the private investor.
DeleteWho would invest into a small national carrier that is unlikely to ever make profit?
DeleteSolinair for example.
DeleteAny private partner would (I imagine) at least 25%, or even 50% share to have some sort of say in what's going on.
DeleteSo it government invests 70m, the would have to do at least 35m.
Now two questions: 1. Where would Solinair get 35m? 2. What would their expected ROI be?
Well Congo Airlines was established with 90 million.
DeleteIt's more than enough money for small airlines with 4-5 aircrafts. Let's go Air Slovenia!
Delete70mio is enought to strat-up an airline ... not in Covid times ... good luck
DeleteIt is even easier to establish an airline, as you can get planes for a half price/lease costs. But at this time the planes will have lower loadfactor in case Covid will still exsist as it probably will for some time. But for sure establishing an airline after crisis is the best solution!
DeleteSlovenia as a small market needs a national airline that will operate with small profit or even small loss. If they want to have good connectivity and not only most profitable routes (that have already been filled with LH, SN, LX) they need to set a national airline.
ReplyDeletePSO is a much more economical way of having necessary, but unprofitable routes.
DeleteExactly. And maybe buy a couple of Cessnas to please those with a mad obsession of seeing planes with Slovenian registrations on the tail.
DeleteAnon 09:07
Delete+1000
Just to say, in Slovenian case it would be called subvention not PSO, because PSO is only for domestic flights.
^ No, you have to learn that there are international PSOs and that airlines operate them. Like from Finland to Sweden, like there was a PSO tender (but no one applied) for flights from Ostrava to Munich and Vienna and from Brno to Vienna. It's all on the EU transport website.
DeleteLol anon 9:12 are you mad at investing into a smart things?
Delete^I just make the suggestions. Maybe I should be charging 4K-esque consultancy fees too
DeleteHaha Anon 9:32, logic is where? With your logic there would be no airport, no railways, no ports, and many other things..
DeleteAll those things exist. It is the national airline that doesn't, and is not required. Provide the means (which will be far less than airline start up capital) and there will be plenty of established European carriers ready to operate in and out of LJU. Companies that have track records of being profitable, reliable and ready to aid in Slovenian economic recovery and growth. It seems the government is ready to throw that all away for the sake of S5 tails and ego.
Delete@Anon 09:49: Don't forget that somebody would greet you in Slovenian when you board the aircraft in Frankfurt instead of English or German. That's really important.... I guess?
Delete@anon 09:49
Deleteplease let me know why it is so important that established EU carrier fly to/out of LJU? Product which I want to have is that Slovenia is well connected to main hubs and some exyu cities and not that "established EU carrier" fly once per day to LJU and even that flight is in the middle of that. That is not helping much to Slovenian economy and it's recovery. If we can get all those carriers to fly to FRA/MUC/BRU/ZRH at least twice per day (departing at 7 am from LJU) then I am against national carrier as well. Otherwise we need it!
Completely agree with you. It's the fact that the Slovenian government is wasting precious resources on exploring a national airline when they should be focusing on enticing successful foreign airlines to base or overnight their aircraft in LJU.
DeleteBut I believe that this is nearly impossible as now they don't even operate to ZRH/MUC/BRU. Before Covid they flew once per day so we are very far from what LH has at this moment. And even their schedule is not perfect which we can see in early afternoon departure from LJU. So business man coming to LJU can not leave within one day. So it's more likely to have our own carrier than to persuade all those carriers to overnight in LJU.
DeleteSo many jobs for nieces and nephews.
ReplyDelete+1.
DeleteBut guy saying there was no nepotism in Adria showing up in 3, 2, 1...
Whose? Yours?
DeleteHe would rather pay to foreigners than to his own "nieces" and "nephews". Slovenian mentality..
DeleteI think the first the annons are just holding a grudge because they got rejected from Adria.
DeleteLook at the bright side of hiring people that have family employed in aviation: they do way less safety/security related dumb mistakes because they are quicker to understand why aviation rules are the way they are. For example, it takes total newbies a 1.5-2 years on average of working at the airport to change to "aviation mentality". Probably hurt some feelings by writing this, but it is what it is. This is for operations, I have no idea how administration part functions.
DeleteYeah, no, that's just blatant discrimination...
DeleteWould you be willing to put "is any of your relatives working in aviation" on a HR questionnare before hiring someone and defend it in court as a benefit to safety?
I agree it's discrimination, but there is no need to put it in HR questionnaire because those are just formal musts when "nieces and nephews" gets hired. Be it right or wrong, I say good luck with avoiding it. For closer family you do get a form where you are supposed to write down if you are closely related to anyone working for the same company - that's a formal must, but it doesn't prohibit you from getting employed. And we all know how informal hiring goes.
DeleteAlso, I wasn't pointing on biological connection, but on growing up in connection to aviation culture that effects family functioning. For many, working in aviation doesn't stop when you clock out, you bring it home.
So, if one of my closest relatives was working for Adria, I mustn't be hired? Even if I pass the selection with flying colours? Talk about discrimination.
DeleteAs was pointed out earlier, somebody is holding a grudge against Adria's employees. Probably has something to do with not getting a job.
Good luck.
ReplyDeleteVery expensive idea with uncertain return.
ReplyDeleteIs it expensive? how did we lost even pre corona times due to poor connectivity? Much more than if we would establish 3 national carriers..
DeleteYou guys can't be pleased. They are going to give money to foreign airlines either way, as they already said.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it is such a bad idea.
ReplyDeleteThis idea will never get off the ground.
ReplyDeleteLet's wait and see..
DeleteSo much negativity...
ReplyDeleteBeing realistic means you're not often disappointed.
DeleteAnon 9:25 yes, i dont know why
Deletepersonal interests from the competition, whos new airline would foil their plans to get access to easy money
Delete+1 at anon 09:37
DeleteIn any case, Slovenia can borrow the Windrose Airlines Ukraine model.
ReplyDeleteThe best aircraft that suits the necessities is the legendary ATR. Get 10 of these, 2 A320s and 1 A321XLR which now will fly from ATH to YUL.
Slovenia must focus on long-haul
Why must Slovenia focus on long haul? And for who?
DeleteMust?
DeleteThat's even more insane idea as LCC having a base in LJU..Slovenia need good connections to EU hubs and flights to some of ex-yu capitals.
Delete@An.09.31
DeleteLong time ago, during ex-yu, BEG had 23 weekly intercontinental departures, ZAG had 12, while LJU had 2. Recently, nowadays, before corona, BEG had 8 weekly long-haul departures (JFK, PEK) , ZAG had 9,(YYZ, SEL), LJU 0 (zero). Speaking of summer peak season numbers. If LJU had such long-range potential, please explain why then ZAG and BEG have, and have always had such flights in bigger numbers. And one narrow body long-haul unit in start up company of five planes, with basically no transfer/connections possible, is utter nonsense, especially such plane not being able to reach the Far East, and with VCE on 2 and VIE on 3 hours car ride.
Anon at 9:31 A321XLR did not enter service. LR is not flying ATH-YUL. ATH-CDG-YUL is what LR can do.
DeleteLJU has more long-haul potential because it is a wealthy country and people need to leave this car mentality and take the plane instead. Take smaller richer states like Bahrain or Kuwait and you will see they have such flights as well.
DeleteI didnt know that Slovenia has an oil.
DeleteMore long haul potential then who? Bosnia?
Delete@Anon 19:06: Hard to know whether you are actually serious or just joking when you compare Slovenia to Gulf countries.
DeleteWell SLO is quite wealthy, so yes it can be compared to a Gulf state.
DeleteTradingEconomics stats:
25000.00 USD
GDP per capita in Slovenia is expected to reach 25000.00 USD by the end of 2020, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations. In the long-term, the Slovenia GDP per capita is projected to trend around 26000.00 USD
30000.00 USD
GDP per capita in Kuwait is expected to reach 30000.00 USD by the end of 2020, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations. In the long-term, the Kuwait GDP per capita is projected to trend around 32000.00 USD in 2021 and 33000.00 USD in 2022, according to our econometric models.
What does Kuwait have that Slovenia doesn't? Oil is not the only answer, because Slovenia also has manufacturing and technology.
@An.20.30
DeleteGDP per capita Dec 2019 : Kuwait 50479 USD, Slovenia 38022 USD. In adition to that, Kuwait has, unlike Slovenia, hard borders and unfavourable climate which make the closest airport with long-haul traffic impossible or almost impossible to reach by means of ground transportation. Kuwait has uncomparably more highly skilled foreign workers from EU and the USA than in SLO, who use long-haul very often to go home. Also, Kuwait has significantly more cargo imported by air from EU and the USA by air than SLO. It also has existing decent national carrier with tradition, unlike some foggy and shady today-no tomorrow-yes start-up. Just answering your question : what does Kuwait have that Slovenia doesn't, and why it is logical that Kuwait has long-haul traffic, and Slovenia does not have, does not need, and will probably never have. If it were as you claim, there would have been already at least one carrier from at least one distant market operating to LJU. You may or not like it, but unfortunatelly that's the case.
Kuwait is a oil rich socialist state in the middle of nothing which has bunch of money to throw in air thanks to oil. And people fly to there more because there is no other option.
DeleteTrue last An., and to prove it I just need to add that my GDP numbers come from the same source as the @An.20.30, only my numbers include purchasing power parity, another very relevant factor in any demand, including air traffic, including long-haul.
DeleteAdria 2.0
ReplyDeleteThey really should have just kept Adria, kicked out 4K and found a partner.
ReplyDeleteWho would invest in a small airline with 100m debt and zero track record of ever making profit?
DeleteThe parent of Cityjet had an agreement to purchase Adria but the government didnt want to give them a 4 mil Eur bridge loan.
DeleteIn a couple of years we will be bailing it out.
ReplyDeleteBetter to pay to have good connectivity than to pay for inoperative respirators which we will have to pay for many years
DeleteWould not be surprised if they get some 4K affiliated company to manage it.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what they will call it.
ReplyDeleteHope they set up the new company on some healthy foundations and I wish it much luck in the future.
ReplyDeleteVery good idea, all balkan airlines have to be government owned, since their markets are too small for them to ever be profitable, so tax payers will either subsidize a loosing strategic airline or LCC flights. But each country needs a national airline.
ReplyDeletetotally supporting this!
ReplyDeleteThen the minister should invest his own money into this airline. Not ours.
DeleteThen idk why should govt spend my tax money for railways if im not using them. People who use them should pay for it :)
Delete@Anonymous 09:39:
DeleteExactly! Same with schools (why should people with no children pay teachers their salaries), highways, judicial system, etc.
This will be a colossal waste of money if it goes ahead.
ReplyDeleteGreat in the end tax payers will give money for this adventure.
ReplyDeleteand we are very glad to pay every cent for that cause.
Deleteanon 1110:
Delete+1000 :)
The saga continues.
ReplyDeleteWell while the government decides what it wants to do - one day they want an airline, the other they don't - more and more foreign airlines are leaving LJU.
ReplyDeleteThat's why we need our own carrier and not depends on foreign ones where they only see their own interest.
DeleteSurprise Surprise.
ReplyDeleteThis will not work.
ReplyDeleteAnd now or even before Covid everything is/was working?
DeleteWhy doesn't Slovenia just do what Macedonia did? Invest 2 million per year into Wizz Air to open a base and launch routes. It would be much more beneficial for the public.
ReplyDeleteYou are comparing two totally different markets and even now Macedonia has very poor connections to main EU hubs. They have few p2p routes where Macedonia diaspora lives (for instance Slovenia does not have a lot of diaspora around the word so our market is not interesting for LCC) but that's basically everything. So forget about LCC opening a base in LJU..
DeleteDepends what Slovenia wants/needs. Full service carriers operate to main city airports, while LCC mostly to regional airports. North Macedonia is amongst the worst connected European countries regardess of a decent Wizz Air base in SKP.
Deletehttps://www.exyuaviation.com/2019/07/ex-yu-airports-lagging-in-connectivity.html
Then simply gave a support to KL, LO, OY, SU, AF, IB, JU, TK, LX, LH, SN, BA, EI so you will not have a connectivity on NMK level.
Delete*give
Delete"They have few p2p routes where Macedonia diaspora lives " aka they only have 30 routes and counting ...
DeleteNevermind, Slovenia maybe dont need (has no market) for 30 routes but i dont see why there could be no demand for one based aircraft. UK, BER/AMS, TLV, BCN/MAD and two Ex-Yu destinations (SJJ&SKP) should do it for the start
@anon 11:11
Deleteyou are talking about LCC to cover those routes?
who else if not LCC?
DeleteI am not against that but who will connects us to main EU hubs (FRA,MUC,ZRH, BRU?). LCC is good to have but I still think that we would have to pay much more than Macedonian government as we don't have mass tourism or many diaspora around the world.
DeleteLH,LX and SN?
DeleteFrom 1 to 10 where do you think LJU is on their priority list? Probably on -5..I would love to see those airlines based in LJU but that's not going to happen. Even LH with their overnight does not have best schedule for Slovenian interests as they are departing too early with their afternoon flight. We need carrier who would take care of Slo interest.
Deletegreat idea after destroying the economy with covid countermeasures
ReplyDeleteHow i'm sick of this.
ReplyDeleteme too, I really hate it because they are so slow. This airlines should already be operative!
DeleteI traveled on Adria Airways quite a number of times a year, instead of just driving.. back when they didnt charge you to carry a bag.. when luggage was complimentary to the flight.. Then they said, I flew to Sarajevo with a bag, and on my way back to Ljubljana, with my return tickets.. I had to pay for my bag.. like wtf.. since that day.. Ive never flown on Adria ever again
ReplyDeleteThose days are long gone, not for Adria, but any airline.
Delete100m for old Adria debt, 70m to start a new airline, 60m subsidy to foreign carriers, 20m projected first year loss, additional investments and losses in following years. Hundreds of millions in the end.
ReplyDeleteIs it better to make a deal with Ryan or Wizz and give much smaller subsidies to them?
please remind me why should Slovenian government pay for private company debts? Subsidies for foreign carriers are worth 6 M and not 60!. Also this 20m forecasted loss is very reliably analysis when it was made by people who don't even work in aviation. In addition cost structure has changed a lot since that analysis were done.
DeletePlease enlighten me and let us know which routes would Ryan or Wizz cover out of LJU? FRA, MUC, ZRH, BRU?
Hmm, did anyone actually check with Ryan or Wizz if they'd be interested in doing business with LJU airport?! Given a small market, "stay at home" Slovenes and poor tourism infrastructure I am not sure who would actually occupy 180+ seats 8 times/day.
DeleteIf Ryan and Wizz are not interested, then how much are LH group airlines asking in subsidies to increase flying from LJU to FRA, MUC, ZRH, BRU? Without knowing that number one can never claim domestic airline would be a better choice.
DeleteWell, LH flies to LJU with a CRJ, LX flew an E170 and BRU hasn't restarted. Again, I seriously doubt it that FR or W6 would be able to pull it off in LJU, even with subsidies.
Deleteswiss flies with E190 not 170
Delete@Anonymous20:28:
DeleteStill 77 seats short of a FR B738 (almost one CRJ900).
swiss flies with E190 not 170
ReplyDelete4k business model revival: 70 mio will be good for establising the company that will take at least 1 year (you need government approved consultants and contractors) + 2 years of money burning in the air. And that's all folks.
ReplyDelete