The Canadian Ambassador to Serbia, Giles Norman, has said bureaucratic conditions for the launch of flights between Belgrade and Toronto have been met and that it is now up to Air Serbia to decide whether it will launch the transatlantic service. “In May 2018, Canada and Serbia signed an Air Transport Agreement as part of the ongoing process of acquiring the necessary permits to allow direct Air Serbia flights between Belgrade and Toronto. The Embassy of Canada has supported the Serbian national air carrier’s efforts in receiving these permits, but the decision on further developments is with Air Serbia. The introduction of a direct flight between Canada and Serbia would be highly welcomed by the large Serbian and regional diaspora in Canada, as well as by businesses from both countries as it would encourage the further expansion of growing economic ties between the two nations”, Mr Norman said.
Speaking at the Southeast Europe Aviation Summit last week, the Ambassador added, “Certainly in the Southern Ontario area around Toronto there is a large Serbian diaspora. We don’t have exact figures, but it is over 100.000 people. So, it is very vibrant and economically active. It would be a good route. It is now a business decision that they [Air Serbia] have got to make whether they want to advance that route. I imagine that in the time of Covid they have a lot of opportunities but also a lot of challenges but certainly from an Embassy point of view, we would be very supportive. The diaspora is very active, and flights would facilitate the commercial and people-to-people ties between our two countries”.
Earlier this month, Air Serbia’s CEO, Duncan Naysmith, said the carrier is continuing to look at options to expand its long haul network but its main focus now is returning to normality following the market-wide disruption caused by the coronavirus pandemic. “Our biggest focus at this stage is getting back to some sort of normality. We continue to look at long haul destinations. We look at China, USA, and Canada as well. At this point in time we are counting on normality, but we always look for opportunities to expand our long haul flights”. The carrier’s General Manager for Commercial and Strategy, Jiri Marek, noted last week, “For us, it [long haul] is working pretty well, and we would like to develop that more in the future”.
Canada is one of Belgrade Nikola Tesla Airport’s largest unserved markets, with 61.232 indirect passengers traveling between the two on a single ticket in 2019, based on OAG data. Flights between Belgrade and Toronto were the busiest citypair between the two countries. In 2019, Toronto was Belgrade Airport’s third busiest unserved route after Shanghai and Beijing, as well as the busiest in North America. Overall, there were 40.856 passengers travelling between the two cities. The majority of travellers flew in combination with Air Canada and Air Serbia, with passengers shuttled by the latter to several European points such as London Heathrow, Amsterdam and Zurich and then continued their journey with Canada’s national carrier. They were followed by LOT Polish Airlines, Lufthansa and Air France. The single most used feeder airport to and from Toronto was Warsaw with around 19% of passengers traveling on the route with LOT Polish Airlines through its hub.
Two-way indirect traffic between Belgrade and Canada in 2019
Air Serbia missed a big opportunity this summer. Should have launched YYZ.
ReplyDeleteYes, hermetically shut Canadian borders would have helped.
DeleteYes, because the majority of passengers on these flights would be Serbian holidaymakers looking for a quick getaway to Canada...
Delete@9.04. You can travel to Canada if you have family there, and of course if you are a Canadian citizen or resident.
DeleteYes but even if you are Canadian you have to go into quarantine in a hotel and you pay the bill. I think it's well over 1.000 CAD. No thanks.
DeleteYes, it has got beyond ridiculous at the moment to fly into Canada.
DeleteStarting a new long haul route in the middle of a pandemic would make no sense
DeleteMany airlines have...
DeleteSometimes a crisis provides an opportunity. Plane leasing rates are down, airport slots are available, airport costs are down. Perhaps they could get a good deal. Look at how well New York is performing despite the virus.
DeleteHey Canada can you drop the fake benevolence towards Serbia. How about you remove the visa regime for Serbs and then we can speak about your good intentions. Actually if I am not wrong when you apply for a Canadian visa the send your passport to Vienna.
ReplyDelete09:02 +1000
DeleteThe big problem is that if they do lift the visa requirement then a lot of people will try to stay and find cash jobs under the table. I've seen this happen a bunch of times, including fake marriages, "refugee" applications for whatever reason that will work. Just cutting grass at someone's house in TO will give them $25 for an hour's work. Not to mention babysitting, working for tips etc... Great for them, bad news for Serbia losing more young people.
Maybe the only time it should be visa-free is in February ;)
You are not wrong... And you pay 60 EUR in DHL fees per passport on top of the visa fees themselves.
DeleteYes, plus they use visa procedure to harvest data from military booklets from all applicants.
DeleteIn the meantime, Serbian citizens do not require visa for China. I would always vote for Beijing or Shanghai instead of Toronto
"Just cutting grass at someone's house in TO will give them $25 for an hour's work."
DeleteSorry, but is more like $CND 10 per hour. (7 euors/per hour) for cutting someone grass :):)
Its difficult to get $25 per hour these days even in Canada.
Can't wait to see them in Toronto.
ReplyDeleteHopefully soon
DeleteNot surprised LOT has so many transfers from Belgrade to Toronto.
ReplyDeleteSame from Skopje. They carry lots of transfers from/to Canada.
DeleteWhat equipment do they use between Warsaw and Toronto?
DeleteDreamliner
DeleteWhat I have been hearing internally is that everything was set for this summer`s launch of the Toronto flights, all permits and even hotel for the crew. JU was evaluating if it would be possible to launch with a single A332 but realized they would need to lease another wide body jet, and finally opted against it.
ReplyDeleteThere were a number of factors for launching and a number against, obviously those against prevailed. Lets hope for next summer and the introduction of PVG and YYZ
Interesting. Hopefully 2022 is the year then
DeletePersonally I would love for JU to launch YYZ and ORD each two weekly and then to use the rest of the free space to boost JFK.
DeleteThere is always something that prevails against the decion to actually give it a try, be brave, take calcualted risks and don't dwell on missed opportunities..... That sort of stuff usually comes from those wisdome quotes CEOs send out to their employees.. But it rarley applies in their direction! Lol
DeleteArticle says Toronto was the third busiest unserved route. Anyone know the top two?
ReplyDeleteShanghai and Beijing. There was a whole article about it here relatively recently.
DeleteFound it >
Deletehttps://www.exyuaviation.com/2021/02/china-becomes-belgrades-top-unserved.html
Thank you very much
DeleteToronto has huge ex-yu and Balkan diaspora. I hope Air Serbia sees the potential in these flights.
ReplyDeleteConsidering these figures and the possibility of domestic feed (in Canada), I'm surprised no Canadian airline is considering these flights.
ReplyDeleteIt is good moment now to get YU-ARC for Canada and China flights
ReplyDeleteWhy?
DeleteChina is highly questionable at the moment while the country is still isolated and has closed borders for more than a year, USA and Canada are safe markets for JU and I thnik flights to China should be inaugurated by Chinese Airline rather than JU, it would be more profitable.
DeleteI wonder if someone like Westjet might look at BEG. They also offer connections and their B767 is perfect for a seasonal and low yielding destinations like BEG.
ReplyDeleteThey dont have 767s anymore
DeleteDreamliners
DeleteThe major issue with YYZ from BEG is seasonality.
ReplyDeleteSo, make it seasonal then. And utilize the bird for winter vacation getaways or destinations that are not seasonal. Its not rocket science.. Just needs planning and good marketing.
DeleteSplit, Dubrovnik and many other cities JU flies are seasonal.. Should they not go there at all then? I keep hearing the same bs excuses since 2014....
At the time JU opened JFK Kondic said that it is not profitable for JU to fly winter charters to exotic, warm destinations.
DeleteI still do not get it why.
Seasonality is not questionable for this and many others routes. With huge diaspora, I think there is potential to generate demand throughout year. When there are no direct flights, people cannot travel. If you offer some flights in low season, I am sure demand would come because this would not be touristic route like the ones to Croatia.
DeleteGood signal from the embassy. I really hope flights materialize sooner rather than later.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, it sounds quite impatient, in a sense "C`mon, do it already"
DeleteI get the same feeling
DeleteNow since Canadian side said their piece, the question comes down to who is the one that does NOT want these flights? Government of Serbia or the airline it self??
ReplyDeleteGranted, until Canada removes it's riculous 2 week mandatory self quaranteen including mandatory (self sponsored) first 3 days in a hotel upon arrival, its really not the best time to INTO Canada. Great time for those wanting to leave :)
woah the disproportion between Toronto and the rest of the Canadian city is huge.
ReplyDeleteWell as you see the ambassador says most of the diaspora lives around Toronto so it makes sense.
DeleteCanadian gouvermant is one of the worse when comes to restrictions and travel industry. Their people are not allowed to even purchase a pair of socks at the store as they are not essential, so how we can even discuss JU starting YYZ operation? Passenger landing in Toronto who are not able to pay for gouvermant quarantine hotel are getting finds for 3800 dollars or they are transferred to gated hotels where they are not allowed to disclose any information to their families about their location?. AirSerbia crew would be closed up at the airport hotel for a few days as they are not allowed
Deleteto leave hotels during pandemic. Toronto is also one of the most expensive city in the world where people work for 14.00 dollars an hour but an avrg home is over a million dollars. When you walk dt, homeless people everywhere. JU should double consider flying to such a country and I believe they already have .
But flights wouldn't launch tomorrow. By the time they start them, these quarantine requirements might no longer be in place.
DeleteAs long as it's gouvermant, everything is fine
DeleteDear LaneHotLane!
DeletePlease let me correct you, it is "government" not "gouvermant".
@LaneHotLane you seem to have SOME of your facts straight, but the rest sounds like broken telephone.
DeleteRE Socks: If they are essential you can buy them at ANY pharmacy or do curbside pickup at any retailer. I just got 2 packs of socks on Saturday
RE Gated Hotels: They are hardly gated. They are standard REGULAR hotels. You just have to stay until your airport covid test comes in negative. Most people get to leave the next day, and you can tell your family and friends you are there. I don't know where you heard it had to be a secret. Also, you act like Canada is the only country doing this. Do a google search.
RE Airport Crew locked up in Hotels: NOT true. Since Ontario is on lockdown there's not a lot to do, but they can most certainly leave their hotel whenever they want. They are exempt from the quarantine rules.
RE Homeless People: every big city has homeless people. Toronto has the highest population of residents, but lower populations of homeless people than Vancouver or Montreal. I see more homeless people in Beograd or Zagreb than I do in Toronto. Nice try though.
RE Cost of homes and Minimum Wage: Minimum was is 14.25 and yes houses are too expensive. We just surpassed New York as being the most expensive city in the Americas to live in.. Yes it does suck, but c'est la vie. (Hardly a reason for Air Serbia not to fly here)
I doubt that Air Serbia is going to re-think flying here because of your arguments that make no sense.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gXb2sK6Ic1U everyone has seen it except you guys in Canada . You can not see much news in Canada as they are all controlled media and not allowed to report anything. Anonymous18:57 can you please watch one of your media reportsnd rell me if those are all lies ? Please and tgank you .
DeleteYYZ amnd ORD will start by end of March 2022, its now clear as a sunny day.
ReplyDeleteNew widebody is to be procured by end thisyear, and delivered mid-March. With these two they will be able to serve the three North American routes, and in winter they will perhaps deploy charters to BKK, MLE for better widebnody utilization.
There is an online petition going on at the moment for Air Serbia to introduce ORD. Has several thousand signatures already.
DeleteYeah that will get them to launch flights...
DeleteIf they start by the end of March, they should put tickets on sale by the end of October in my opinion.
DeleteIf JU doesn't launch it then UA might step in. Local market is large and they could cover the whole Midwest and the west from ORD.
DeleteI think spring/summer 2022 seems realistic, the route will perform very well, especially if they attract more transfer passengers, because OS failed on this market.
ReplyDeleteThus said, sooner or later we will welcome YU ARC and hopefully they can introduce in the later stage another long haul flight (hopefully ORD).
Tired of hearing politicians/ambassadors talking about this.
ReplyDeleteSame here
DeleteAircraft leasing rates are very low at the moment and airports are more open to giving very good terms and conditions to airlines.
ReplyDeleteAt the time Air Serbia leased YU-ARB there was one more identical ex Aeroflot plane available for leasing, but it seems that it is now too late for that plane as it flew to Holland for painting.
DeleteIt would have been great if YU-ARC had arrived together with YU-ARB.
If they managed to obtain ARB for a half of the cost of ARA, why get ARC also and have two available aircraft with all associated costs (identical to times when ARA was around). It is obvious that Toronto is a welcome addition to the route network, however, not while the entry in Canada is so restricted. Toronto can't be compared to New York. US visa is easy to get, for ten year period. Canadian is not so easy to get.
DeleteSimultaneously, Shanghai provides more cargo oportunities and therefore relies much less to passenger traffic and its seasonality (+no visas there).
Rgds, Eight
Let's not forget that airplane can't immediately join the fleet and it would take some time to be prepared for it.
DeleteIf, at the time the place is ready, Canada is still closed they can fly to China as there is demand (Shanghai on the first place) . Once Canada got open they will be able to start flying there with the plane which costs were significantly lower than for YU-ARA. Working on this way their leasing costs for 2 planes would be as much as for YU-ARA but with many more destinations covered and many more transfer passengers.
But if they wait too long with finding second wide body the price might be higher and higher.
I do not think visa regime is big problem in this case as these flights would be mainly for Balkan diaspora in Canada. Also lets not forget that passport holders from Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania etc. do not need visas for Canada.
Long overdue in my opinion
ReplyDeleteI hope some serious discussions with JU have started. It will benefit the Serbian diaspora.
ReplyDeleteA market they could get quite a lot of feed from for YYZ is Macedonia. That is if they offer some competitive prices and good connections.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely. LOT does very well there with Canada transfers
DeleteIf Air Serbia were to eventually launch these flights, a codeshare with Air Canada would be very beneficial and would guarantee more passengers.
ReplyDeleteAir Canada codeshares with Lufthansa to Belgrade.
DeleteSince recently Air Canada frequent flyer and Air Serbia frequent flyer cooperate and you can earn miles on each. So tehre is some form of cooperation.
DeleteI believe Air Canada and Air Serbia already have an interline or maybe even an SPA agreement.
DeleteAC no longer codeshares with LH to BEG.
DeleteOk, agreement has been signed but did ASL obtain the official Canadian license?
ReplyDeletePoliticians may speak, but those actions are much more important than words.
Also, we didn't get any sign about a second A330 arrival.
A possible solution is to rent a cheap A340 from Iran or Venezuela and then opt for 2 A330 neos or the A350.
This route would be good for cargo too.
ReplyDeleteCan Air Serbia make NYC and Toronto work with 1 plane?
ReplyDeleteIn winter yes, but in the summer they can't.
DeleteWell it all depends on frequencies but I doubt they would sacrifice their New York flights which are performing well.
DeleteI will believe it when I see it.
ReplyDeleteAir Serbia needs to get second longhaul plane.
ReplyDeleteIf these flights launch I doubt it will be before summer 2022.
ReplyDeleteWhat is Air Serbia waiting for?
ReplyDeleteFor a Canadian airline to start this route and then they will be surprised.
DeleteOne of the reasons they are taking their time is probably because there is no interest from Canadian airlines.
DeleteThey could be waiting for some improvement to their financial situation. The past couple of years saw improvements, but this was set back by Covid. I think once things start getting back on track they will launch it. Launching long haul routes is not the same as launching short and medium haul routes.
DeleteThese flights would benefit the Serbian diaspora.
ReplyDeleteNot just Serbian but part of ex-Yu/Balkan as well.
DeleteIf JU launches Toronto next year I doubt it will only be Toronto. They will probably launch several other new routes like they did when New York was launched. If I remember correctly they launched 6 routes that summer.
ReplyDeleteThey would probably launch Toronto and another long haul route.
DeleteI was convinced TS would launch YYZ-BEG flights.
ReplyDeleteWhy so?
DeleteNumber shown in the text gives in average as minimum two times per week flights year around.
ReplyDeleteWould love to see that plane in Toronto :)
ReplyDeleteIt already has been.
DeleteSearch for Air Serbia Toronto in Youtube, it was a diversion flight!
Say what you want about Dane Kondic but current Air Serbia leadership wouldn't have JFK service success if Kondic didn't have the guts and determination to overcome all obstacles and introduce it in 2016. He was not pliable and meek CEO worried about CV without blemishes, looking for every possible excuse to not start JFK. And he had tons of excuses to use.
ReplyDeleteChances are slim for 2026 leaders to look back at 2021 and say "we now enjoy profitable JFK & YYZ service thanks to Air Serbia leaders of 2021 that were not afraid to make the bold step and seize the opportunity to introduce Toronto service in the time of crisis." Slim to none.
He was ordered by the government to launch New York. He didn't have much of a choice.
DeleteDoes that imply current government doesn't want to launch Toronto?
DeleteLaunching YYZ in 2021 wouldn't have anywhere near the PR value that launching JFK in 2016 did. And true, I also wouldn't give too much credit to Kondic on that one - it was a govt decision through and through.
DeleteKondic was also correct to launch long haul first and then use it to grow local network:
Deletehttps://youtu.be/11f8E1JAVS0?t=337
Same should be applied to addition of Toronto as a catalyst to grow additional feed from the region.
Vlad, govt and Hogan thought it would take 3-4 years from Serbia as a FAA category 2 country and Air Serbia with no long haul operations to actual JFK service, and Kondic pushed for it and did it in about two years.
DeletePR impact is not as critical as it was back in 2016. Air Serbia is well known to operate quality service to New York. Opening YYZ would get local front page coverage and diaspora would know about it in an instant. Independent media in Serbia would go nuts against it! As Michael O'Leary said: "Short of committing murder, bad publicity sells more seats", so overall it would be great news and PR for Air Serbia.
BG - Toronto flight would be beneficial to Air Serbia not doubt about it but for Serbia as country, BG- Peking or BG- Shanghai would be way more beneficial route.
DeleteSo it is toss up between short and long term benefit analysis.
Situation in the world is very fluid
Anon @ 18.58 - you are right. He did push and fight for it. What a lot of people don't know, is that he also made a number of trips to Washington to fight for the approvals after the DoT had declined the application not once, but twice. He engaged Holland & Knight (Aviation lawyers) and together, they put a plan in place to reverse the decision. After much lobbying and personal intervention by him, the approvals were eventually granted which meant that JU could finally launch US services in their own right.
DeleteThe Gov't was keen - Hogan was against it, but Kondic made it happen.
You make Kondić out to be a savior of Air Serbia. He has a lot to answer for. He made many questionable decision while he was a head honcho.
DeleteNo, I just said Kondic was the driving force behind JFK project who didn't look for excuses to delay the launch. I also put that drive in contrast with current delays and excuses not to launch Toronto
DeleteDefinitely having direct filght would be great , more people would teavel since it is easier no language barrier at transfers and I d go 2x a year hope it happens soon!!
ReplyDeleteJust so people get an idea what it's like in Toronto now
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57079577