The airport’s efforts to attract a Chinese carrier gained fresh momentum following a recent visit to Beijing by Fraport Slovenija Managing Director Jürgen Deischl. During the fourth China Air Transport Association Aviation Conference, Mr Deischl held what he described as “numerous airline discussions”, as well as talks with representatives of the China Air Transport Association and the Civil Aviation Administration of China. The airlines involved were not disclosed. Mr Deischl also addressed the event, presenting Ljubljana Airport’s role as the Fraport Group’s testing hub for artificial intelligence-driven airport solutions.
Ljubljana Airport has been pursuing flights from China for several years. Its Head of Airline Management, Janez Krašnja, previously said, “We've been in talks with Chinese carriers for years about launching flights to Ljubljana”. However, he cautioned that long-haul operations carry significantly greater commercial risks, estimating that a Ljubljana - Beijing rotation would cost more than 300.000 euros to operate. China has itself raised the prospect of establishing flights to Slovenia. Ling Ji, China’s Vice Minister of Commerce and Deputy China International Trade Representative, previously said the two countries would work on “establishing an air bridge”. There have never been scheduled nonstop flights between China and Slovenia. Air China launched a service between Beijing and Zagreb via Bucharest earlier this month.
Slovenian officials have also renewed discussions over a nonstop air link with Doha. Foreign Minister Tone Kajzer met Qatar’s Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Mohammed bin Abdulaziz Al Khulaifi, on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York this week. According to the Slovenian government, the two discussed political dialogue, economic and transport cooperation, as well as the establishment of direct flights.
The meeting follows several rounds of high-level talks aimed at attracting Qatar Airways to Slovenia. Late last year, Slovenian President Nataša Pirc Musar discussed the matter during an official visit to Doha, saying, “Slovenia is keen to establish a direct air connection with Qatar operated by Qatar Airways”. A Qatari delegation previously noted that a potential service required further market analysis, adding that flights could be launched once the assessment was completed. Qatar Airways had expressed interest in serving Ljubljana prior to the coronavirus pandemic.
Separately, Slovenia and Japan have signed a memorandum establishing a framework for codeshare cooperation between airlines serving the two countries. The agreement was signed in Ljubljana by Srečko Janša, Acting Director General of Slovenia’s Directorate for Air and Maritime Transport, and Tetsuya Mori, Director of the International Air Transport Division at the Japan Civil Aviation Bureau. Japan Airlines has expressed particular interest in using the new framework to market an itinerary between Tokyo Haneda and Ljubljana via Helsinki. Under the planned arrangement, JAL would place its code on Finnair-operated flights between Helsinki and Ljubljana.
The two governments have described the memorandum as an interim step in the further development of the air transport market, with the conclusion of a bilateral air services agreement identified as the next objective. During talks in Tokyo last year, Slovenian officials also raised the possibility of improving air links, as the country seeks to capitalise on interest from the Japanese tourism and business markets. Ljubljana Airport has previously handled charter flights from Japan. The first arrived in 2008, while ANA and Japan Airlines subsequently operated a number of charters from Japanese cities including Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, Fukuoka and Sapporo. The most recent such operations took place in 2019, prior to the pandemic.
I don't think there has ever been this much momentum at LJU.
ReplyDeleteImagine Ljubljana adding Doha, China and Tokyo in summer 27 together with New York… that would be wild.
DeleteWell after United the sky is the limit
DeleteSome people will be very sad!
DeleteAnd we all know who it will be :)
Delete^ True dat!
DeleteZagreb has equal purchasing power as Slovenia, it covers area with aabout 1,5 million people, 3 times more than Ljubljana, it has 3 times bigger diaspora in the US, and about tha same amount of US tourists as Ljubljana. Nobody is sad that LJU got UA to EWR but angry at people in charge of croatian aviation who didn't manage to establish US service from ZAG wjen even LJU did it. And the same goes for announced potential services if they happen. Nobody will be sad. But some people are not here to comnent aviation but to insult orher people, for reasons known only to them.
DeleteI don't think Japan is anywhere close to being launched next year. I mean it is pretty clear this is for a codeshare and they would have to conclude first a bilateral which even if they started tomorrow would take between 6 months and a year before adopted from both sides.
DeleteChina I can see happening next year. I don't think the pic of China Eastern was used by accident. They said recently they want to expand in this region.
As for Doha, I think it is possible maybe late next year. QR is about to start taking delivery of A321s which will completely reshape its short haul fleet and there will be many new (and returning) destinations in Europe.
PIR took the bait so easily. Lol
DeleteI didn't take a bait neither I wanted to catch a fish. I was just telling simple truth which some minds that operate completely diferrent than mine, simply are not able to process
DeleteLjubljana Airport CEO just posted on linkedin about talks with Japan and confirmed the airport has the intention to establish flights with Japan.
DeleteIt's going to be a codeshare, which is a bit useless if Finnair doesn't fly in winter season when that's the peak travel time for Japan
DeleteBravo Fraport!
ReplyDeleteAs a logistics professional, I can assure you that a regular connection to anywhere in China would make sure that at least the inbound flight from China would always be 100% full of cargo. Outbound flight back maybe less so, but there's still potential for that too.
DeleteA direct China flight sounds exciting, but I struggle to see sufficient year-round demand. Seasonal flights aimed at tour groups might be more realistic.
ReplyDeleteSlovenia is a major tourism destination, and inbound demand should not be underestimated.
DeleteSlovenia is hardly a major tourist destination, although there could be potential for such connection if the prices remain competitive, for example, in line with the prices from Budapest (which is quite well connected with multiple Chinese destinations, with flights by several Chinese carriers)
DeleteLuckily it is not a mass destination, but it is still a major turist destination. It seems you haven't been this summer in Ljubljana or Gorenjska. There are around 60k tourist beds 50km around LJU airport.
DeleteGood to see Ljubljana Airport being proactive. Even if these talks do not produce immediate results, airlines need to be approached continuously and relationships take years to develop.
ReplyDeleteLjubljana needs more frequencies to major European hubs before Beijing and Tokyo.
ReplyDeleteWhich ones ? I think transfer options are well covered already, especially in the summer.
DeleteYou do know that getting flights to Asia does not in any way prevent new routes to Europe, right?
DeleteSo why are you upset about them?
He knows that and that's why he is angry.
DeleteIf LJU pulls off a nonstop route to China, that would be a major one up on ZAG.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteIn their ppt presentation they show North Korea as destination :)
ReplyDeleteThere’s still quite a bit of China on the other side of that bay before Korea begins. It’s obviously nowhere near Beijing, but I believe the spot shown on the presentation is still within China.
DeleteThere’s still quite a bit of China on the other side of that bay before Korea begins. It’s obviously nowhere near Beijing, but I believe the spot shown on the presentation is still within China.
DeleteIt is great to see that this airport has woken up
ReplyDeleteWhich proves my point that "no demand" people, for any airport in the region, are totally wrong (or deliberately mean). Babel left, new guy came, the airport blossomed, literally overnight. So no demand from yesterday became lot of demand today. And haters can continue to hate, despite facts, explanations and real life which proves them wrong
DeleteUnfortunately the new guy kept the old guy. The old guy has zero understanding of passenger flows and travel patterns not to mention he has zero knowledge about the airport’s business. The good think is that it seems the new guy doesn’t listen much to the old guy.
Deletethey want to connect LJU with China, Doha and Japan, but its connections with Europe are still a disaster. These huge long-haul routes seem like a dream when the basic European network isn’t properly connected.
ReplyDeleteForget normal European connections - let’s fly to Japan! 🤣
Well they got US flights.
DeleteTheyare working on eu flights too
Delete@09:24
DeleteYou do know that getting flights to Asia does not in any way prevent new routes to Europe, right?
So why are you upset about them?
@10:23 - Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? This is an online public forum, and it is available for anyone to participate. Everyone has the right to express their own opinion, and I believe everyone’s opinions should be treated with respect. I’m not even defending 9:24 opinion here I’m defending someone else’s right to express theirs. Just because someone has a different point of view from yours does not give you the right to be rude, dismissive, or disrespectful toward them. You can disagree with someone without being unnecessarily hostile.
DeleteRegarding your point @9:24, I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t completely agree with the conclusion. The fact that LJU does not currently have particularly strong connectivity across Europe does not automatically mean that long-haul routes to destinations such as China, Japan, or the United States would be unprofitable or to fail. There are many factors that determine whether a long-haul route can succeed, including local demand, tourism, business traffic, connecting passengers, and the airline’s overall strategy.
It is good to see Slovenia looking beyond the usual European markets.
Delete@10:48 Well said! Some people are such chronic users here that they think that somehow every commenter has some kind of agenda.
DeleteIt is encouraging that Fraport is actually going to China and meeting airlines instead of simply waiting for carriers to come to Ljubljana.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteBut Fraport was supposed to prevent any new airlines flying to LJU and also kick all airlines already serving it in order to have only LHG carriers. What changed?
DeleteManagement team.
DeleteAnd their relationship to LHG changed a lot... there is no too much love any more, I hear
DeleteFraport has not attended a single route conference before it got a new CEO, so yes, Fraport was actively preventing new routes to be launched!
DeleteYes I'm sure Fraport bought LJU in order to lose money by preventing airlines from flying there.
DeleteIt was just the previous CEO being a nepo-appointee and the previous MoT being Bratušek. Ever since we got a new CEO and MoT, we've gotten so many new positive developments
DeleteWhat are the new Minister of Transport's achievements? Restoring flights to Israel? We all know why that had to happen. As far as aviation is concerned, his primary task is to establish traffic at the MBX airport, which is state-owned. Basing one or two Wizz Air aircraft there (Ryanair is already in Zagreb) would be a good start.
DeleteQatar Airways would be fantastic for connections to Bangkok, Singapore, Bali, Australia and East Africa.
ReplyDeleteA nonstop service to China would be great for tourism, trade and cargo. Slovenia has a strong export economy, so the potential should not be judged purely on passenger numbers.
ReplyDeleteThere is growing Chinese interest in Slovenia as a tourism destination. The challenge is converting organised tour traffic into enough demand to fill a widebody aircraft regularly.
DeleteAfter securing United’s Newark service, Ljubljana has every reason to be more ambitious. A few years ago, many people would have dismissed a nonstop US route as unrealistic too.
ReplyDeleteTrue. The airport has demonstrated that it can attract a major global carrier and support a targeted long haul route.
DeleteImpressive
ReplyDeleteFrom no scheduled long-haul flights to potentially having Newark, Doha and China would be an extraordinary change for Ljubljana.
ReplyDeleteQatar Airways would face plenty of indirect competition from Turkish Airlines and flydubai.
ReplyDeleteWhy is everyone assuming Beijing? Shanghai might offer stronger business and tourism demand and could be a better fit for Slovenia.
ReplyDeleteHopefully the government will disclose how much financial support it is prepared to offer...
ReplyDeleteI think that if LJU-China flights are launched, ZAG is either getting a direct flight or the OTP-PEK service will be quickly canceled
ReplyDeleteMy friend flew with them, he said that the ZAG-OTP leg was busier than the OTP-PEK one...maybe it's one off, but if that keeps up, I can't see it staying
Delete^so people actually use it to fly ZAG-OTP?
DeleteWell, it's better to pay even few euros more and fly nonstop than to fly backwards and lose whole day via Minken or Vrankvurt, especially with shitty airline what LH became
DeleteWe have heard about talks with Qatar Airways for years.
ReplyDeleteExactly. More diplomatic meetings, more memoranda and more “market analysis”. Qatar Airways has been analysing Ljubljana for a very long time.
DeleteWell some routes do take years of negotiations. Better than not talking at all.
DeleteQR has had fleet issues for many years. Thankfully this will finally be resolved when the A321s start coming at the end of the year. QR CEO himself said last week this will allow them to launch new routes across Europe.
DeleteThe biggest obstacle for a Chinese route is seasonality. Slovenia is highly attractive during the warmer months but filling the aircraft in February would be much harder.
ReplyDeleteNot necesarly true, you have the caves and Bled that's year round, Ljubljana needs to work on it - I agree
DeleteA summer seasonal China service could be the solution.
DeleteAsian tourists are generally not "sun, sea and beach" type. They are interested in nature, history, shopping...which are year-round activities. Especially in Slovenia with its nature
DeleteA month ago long haul from Ljubljana was a fantasy and now we are discussing multiple long haul routes and one is secured.
ReplyDeleteYeah it's a pretty amazing development.
DeleteHas anyone on here booked EWR flight? If so, how was the seat map looking?
ReplyDeleteNo. But for sure significant part of passengers will be from Rijeka/Kvarner/Istra, where literally every second house have some family member in NY and/or NewJersey, and whose arrival/departure point has been Venice Marco Polo so far
DeleteAh yes of course. Widely known fact here that most if not all pax travelling out of LJU are Croatians who love to travel.
DeleteIn course of this year, I flew 3 times out of LJU. Packages for charters leaving LJU are sold in both Croatia and Slovenia and passengers come from both countries. Diaspora in NY and NJ from North Adriatic which was so far using Venice is huuge. Most of them are US citizens and consider themselves Americans of croatian origin. Is it really so difficult to understand lot of that people will switch to LJU once the flights to EWR start?
DeleteBtw I never said "most" or "all" passengers. But some people who can't even read properly dare giving lessons to others. Lessons based on prejudices and hate
DeleteAnon@13:44 toxic
ReplyDeleteHappy for LJU! I don't see Tokyo happening any time soon though. Did you ever look at the route map out of Narita/Haneda for Europe?
ReplyDeleteWell LJU had charters from Japan until covid.
DeleteWhy did the charters from Japan to Ljubljana stop?
ReplyDeleteCovid.
DeleteI realise it's covid but why didn't they come back afterwards?
DeleteLandscape has changed. Asian travellers did not flock immediately after covid restrictions were lifted and travelled mostly within Asia for a good one to two years after. Also Japanese are travelling much less than before. The yen is weak so traveling has become expensive. That is why so many foreigners are travelling to Japan because it is cheaper than what it used to be.
DeleteThanks. What equipment did they use when they used to fly those charters to LJU?
DeleteYep these charters started in 2016. Pity they stopped. ANA used to send its B777 to Ljubljana.
DeleteThey used to operate to Croatia as well as far as I can remember
DeleteIndeed. First Zagreb and Dubrovnik, then just Dubrovnik.
DeleteThey used to send the B747 to Croatia.
DeleteI just did a search here on that and there is news about it from 2010! haha this site is becoming an encyclopedia
Deletehttps://www.exyuaviation.com/2010/06/tokyo-zagreb.html
Pity there are no longer these charters
DeleteWell, that is dandy news, but I would like to know, who is going to handle this planes/flights.
ReplyDeleteFor rhe whole summer season there has been too few teams with each one max 3 workers in. Disaster
One would expect they are going to hire more workers.
DeleteA bit off-topic, but related to LJU: On September 23rd, a Brussels Airlines flight on the ATH–BRU route was diverted to LJU and continued to BRU after 50 minutes. Does anyone know the reason?
ReplyDeleteIt was due to medical emergency.
DeleteExcellent developments from LJU lately.
ReplyDelete