Monday, April 16, 2012

CAPA: Croatia to take charge of EX-YU airline

Debate over single national carrier for EX-YU continues
The Centre for Aviation (CAPA), an aviation intelligence, analysis and data services company, is the latest to weigh in on the debate whether national carriers of the former Yugoslavia should unite to form a single airline in the name of economic rationalisation. The debate was originally set off by the Association of European Airlines which urged Adria Airways to play a key role in the unification of Croatia Airlines, Jat Airways and Montenegro Airlines (along with itself). The proposal was followed by Adria’s CEO stating that such plans should be put into motion if the privatisation process of the Slovenian national carrier fails this year.

However, CAPA believes that Croatia Airlines, as the only EX-YU carrier with a domestic network, should be instrumental in the unification of these rival airlines. “Croatia Airlines, if it is part of the merger, could have the muscle to direct the base of the merged operation to Croatia. While Croatia’s capital, Zagreb, is not the central point in the former Yugoslavia, its airport infrastructure is presumably more able to handle a larger operation than the bases of the other involved airlines, considering Croatia Airlines is currently the largest airline in the region”, CAPA believes.

However, the intelligence company notes that any unification will be “politically challenging”, noting that next year both Slovenia and Croatia will be part of the European Union while the other states in question won’t, making a merger more complicated. Furthermore, it notes that issues such as choosing hubs would present a problem. However, CAPA notes that a regional railway company was formed between EX-YU countries and that other multi national airlines, such as SAS Scandinavian Airlines and TACA Airlines, have managed to function.

Could this mixture of fleets, destinations, markets and politics ever really work out?

AirlineFleet sizeDestinationsPAX 2011
Croatia Airlines13271.880.000
Jat Airways14281.219.703
Adria Airways13211.163.016
Montenegro Airlines813590.000
B&H Airlines25NA

51 comments:

  1. well, why not post the link to the article

    http://www.centreforaviation.com/analysis/flag-carriers-of-the-former-yugoslavia-urged-to-unite-71358

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    Replies
    1. I'm sick and tired of Zagreb and feel like vomiting each time they write their "LDZA" crap...

      Delete
  2. Ha... one thing that CAPA is forgetting is that it will not work because Croatia, just like Adria, won't be able to get government funding any longer. With the entry to the EU OU will face even more challenges than it has until now. Best proof is Adria, its crisis has only deepened since the accession to the EU.
    I guess it is another attempt of Westerners to play it smart in the Balkans. We all know how well it worked out the last time.

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  3. Zagreb? If the city was so convenient then I fail to see why its passenger numbers are decreasing constantly. This will be forcing the market where there is none.
    I am sorry but I think that the domestic Croatian market is overestimated at this point.

    Belgrade has much more demand, centralized aviation, centre for air traffic control for the Balkans... not to mention that the fact that Serbia is centralized will mean that passengers will be concentrated on a single airport in stead of being forced to fight for passengers on several fronts.
    Also, the fact that Belgrade airport has better infrastructure should play a role.

    Also, Belgrade is served by more airlines than Zagreb.

    CAPA I am sorry but your analysis is an Epic Fail.

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    1. You think that Croatian domestic market is overestimated :DDD

      Croatian domestic network is one of the best examples in Europe.

      SUMMER 2012.

      Zagreb - Dubrovnik up to 5 daily flights
      Zagreb - Split up to 5 daily flights
      Zagreb - Pula 2 daily flights
      Zagreb - Zadar 2 daily flights
      Osijek - Split 1 weekly flight
      Zagreb - Brač 1 weekly flight
      Zadar - Pula 2 daily flights

      People use planes instead of buses in Croatia, like in every modern European country.

      Not to mention that Croatia is new European tourist star :)

      Delete
    2. And with all that your numbers at Zagreb are in free fall? With such a "huge destinations list" i would be really disappointed on your place, if "Croats have got wings", as you say...

      Delete
  4. Do not talk! React! We need 2 players! One multinational Balkan SAS and one lowcost that covers whole Balkan aswell!

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  5. The only reason other than the fact that Belgrade has higher traffic numbers than Zagreb is because there isn't another airport in Serbia that has over 100,000 passengers a year.

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    1. i'm sure that majority of passengers flying to croatian coastal airports are (very) seasonal tourists (exept domestic passangers- we will see how this segment will turn out once croatia enters EU, because as much as i know domestic flights are VERY unprofitable in Croatia and they exist only because the state is supporting them).

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  6. Australia, Brazil, US, Canada with their capitals are good examples what could be the solution for such an airline. The headquarter should not be in Zagreb or Belgrade, it should be elsewhere.
    The hub of course with the most flights etc will be there where the demand is the highest.
    Definitely only private money, no government participation and shares of 51% to one of the global big players such as LH or one of the ME Carriers. Since regular airlines in Europe without intercontinental connection do already suffer under the influence of the LCC, I suggest to create the airline already with cost structures which can compare with LCC

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  7. Since there is no economic growth, nor tourist industry, BEG increased numbers of passengers are obviously result of economic emigration. This number will soon stabilize, without further growth in next, at least, ten years.
    LDZA catchment (CRO Coast, Slovenia & Western Bosnia & Herzeg), is far more developed and will generate lot more passengers then other ex yu areas.

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    1. exactly, not to mention 12 mil. tourists in Croatia, a number that will be increasing to 15/16/17 mil. by 2020/25.
      At least 2-3 mil. will be coming by long haul flights to LDZA due to nearby attractions. The catchment area that you mention, besides populations that gravitate to LDZA, also attract foreign pax to tourist attractions such as: Plitvice Lakes, Istria, Dalmatia, Međugorje in Hercegovia, Slovenia (increasingly attractive for US tourists - check out many agencies from L.A. that use Venice airport from where they go by bus to tour Western Balkan area including Slovenia) etc...

      Belgrade is nothing but a weekend stop-over destination, a fun city for parties and doing some conference business. Not attractive enough for word-wide tourists (just tourist from Balkans, mostly Slovens and Croats in a need to drink) + it has nothing else around it.
      Even today, Zagreb receives more tourists than Belgrade, and BEG is 150% the size of Zagreb.

      Dream on ...

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    2. LoL I guess you are the one who needs to wake up and smell the roses. What you say is based on speculations and predictions, what we are saying is backed by hardcore facts.

      Delete
    3. Great " analysis", joking of course. So, desperate Serbs leave the country, and prosperous Croats are so happy with prosperous ecenomy in their homeland. Great, so happy for you! Could I add in your way of "analysis": ZAG airport, even after reconstruction, with few air-bridges to be a hub for the prosperous region (SLO, HR, BIH). Funny, really.

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    4. Ref. Gentleman above;
      There is no reconstruction of ZG airport. There will be new terminal for civilized handling of five (5) MM pax. / year. Funny region (SLO, HR, West. BIH) has a GDP more than double than any other combination of areas in ex yu and in a matter of months will be part of "rotten" EU.
      Auf Wiedersehn

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    5. Ref to Anonymous, 03:20 AM:
      Not the region is funny, the hub is funny. Please, read carefully. So, as I understand, it seems that your projection is that SLO, HR and western BIH (of course) are and will be prosperous, comparing to "other parts of ex-Yu", which will remain on this stage of economic power? So malitious, as expected from you.

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    6. "Belgrade is nothing but a weekend stop-over destination, a fun city for parties and doing some conference business. "

      - Well i think you could be proud if Zagreb was also "nothing but that", while Zagreb is actually much less and worse than that. All what foreign tourists have to say about Zagreb is that it is "small and sleepy" and they end up staying in Belgrade for weeks. Belgrade is less promoted, true, but Zagreb is categorically outmatched and would still be outmatched even if Zagreb was to handle 50 million PAX tomorrow. These days you can hear all possible foreign languages in the streets of Belgrade which is unlike Zagreb a real cosmopolitan city and that is also thanks to its citizens and the cultural atmosphere and openness, none of which Zagreb has. But lets stay on-topic.

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    7. If ZAG was to prosper so much, why the French are building a terminal that can handle just 5 million pax, and not 10, 15 or 20? Actually, why are the French building your airport at all, don't you have the money in your prosperous Croatia? While Belgrade is financing its own terminal and technical warehouses expansion + new control tower with the already existing air traffic control center that covers the whole SE Europe region, yes, even Croatia...that hurts, right? So the FRENCH plan means that even after reconstruction, ZAG will actually have the capacity that BEG had until last year. Impressive, isn't it? LOL.
      I think that one must really be under heavy delusions to think that even if SLO, HR, and BIH was to prosper so much (which is not gonna happen given the situation in the EU and their indebted economies), that they will ALL want to fly EXCLUSIVELY from Zagreb (and not from Sarajevo, Venice, Trieste, Belgrade). So Zagreb will be the ONLY airport on option for those people? Ridiculous. The truth is, Slovenian and Zagreb people will most likely still fly from Venice or Ljubljana, Zagreb and Bosnian people might want to come to Belgrade which offers far more destinations and at better fares than Zagreb, while Belgrade people never came to Zagreb to take a flight. Look at the reality.

      Delete
  8. There are three things not addressed (unsurprisingly) in the article which I think cause the major problems with this absurd proposal:

    1. There used to be just one airline serving all these countries until 20 years ago, and a recent (and quite bitter) war means that the trust and links which previously existed suddenly aren't there, and won't be in the short term. People in the region have looooooong memories, but it doesn't seem so at the AEA. Irrespective of the arguments for/against Yugoslavia as a nation, it may have existed then but does not survive today, and the same for just 'one' airline to exist.

    2. Geographically, one hub won't work. The population is dispersed, and while a high % of traffic is Europe-bound (therefore, the nearest point should be the hub such as LJU), traffic cannot be divided at multiple hubs for all the different directions the flights *might* be heading. Could 3 (or up to 5) hubs ultimately work if this mega-airline was set up, no way in h***. And it would cost more than the present failure of operations!

    3. No airline presently existing in the exYU has the capability to lead or co-ordinate any larger than what they currently operate. It's pathetic, but sadly true. With government interference, corruption, arrogance and lack of true know-how, there is no other way for the airlines we love to read about on this forum to operate because they know no different! Another important fact to realise is that merging multiple loss-making businesses into a larger entity doesn't suddenly make it turn profitable overnight.

    This 'unite of disappear' proposition will go nowhere, but it will continue to be pushed from an organisation which has vested interests in profitability of its biggest members - (not surprisingly) at the expense of its smallest members.

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  9. Even this debate shows that there is no way to make new «Yugoslavia united airline». People from here can start the war just because of question where headquarters of that company would be, not to mention important questions like hub, fleet, financial input, maintenance center... You all made example of SAS, but just forget to mentioned that SAS made several important and energetic stapes to decentralized company, and now you have 3 totally independent company under brand of SAS. Those 3 companies have independent accounts, development, fleets etc. But even with that SAS is in deep financial shit and crying for selling to Lufthansa or someone else. So, what these unite helped them?

    As this «Yugoslavia united airline» will never happened for debate reasons let us just try to find what solution would be better for hub. For sure it is Zagreb

    1. After entering in EU ZAG will have much more passengers and companies than BEG. For sure till summer 2014 (possibly even in summer 2013) ZAG will overnumber BEG. That case was in most of «new» EU capitals like OTP, SOF, BUD, PRG, WAW...
    2. Zagreb has much more connections that BEG. From ZAG you have every day connections to ZAD, PUY, SPU, DBV, SJJ, SKP, PRN, from BEG just to SJJ, SKP, TGD, TIV. In case of «united» hub ZAG will for sure have also connections to TGD, TIV and OMO.
    3. Zagreb was much bigger transit point during ex Yugoslavia than Belgrade.
    4. Zagreb have much bigger national product than Belgrade, much more tourists, trade is much bigger, city had more influence especially in economic representative offices and politics (and when it will become part of EU it will be even bigger)... Data about ZAG/BEG BNP, number of tourist etc. was published on this blog for several times till now including sources for those data. So, that is fact.

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    1. 1. Wrong. BEG passengers increase is higher than what many EU member states airports had after joining EU (since visas were abolished) and BEG is on the way to over-number SOF this year already.

      2a. "Zagreb has much more connections that BEG. From ZAG you have every day connections to ZAD, PUY, SPU, DBV, SJJ, SKP, PRN." Out of seven, 4 are Croatian cities and 1 is an enemy entity. Jat is starting to fly to some of those coastal cities this year (not that we need it that badly). I don't see the point of this argument.

      2b. Have you counted to how many destinations worldwide you can fly from BEG versus ZAG?
      Well, let me teach you -> You can fly all-year round from Belgrade to 60 destinations on 3 continents versus 40 destinations on one continent with Zagreb. Companies? 15 airlines serving ZAG vs. 24 serving BEG at the moment. This week for example, the cheapest Rome-Moscow round-trip ticket was FCO-BEG-SVO-BEG-FCO. But i guess that wouldn't be possible from Zagreb cause Croatia doesn't even fly to Moscow (might be too far for you LOL).
      So what connections are you talking about? Of few Croatian guys going from Split to Germany via Zagreb to feed Lufthansa's hubs to be able to get anywhere in the world from there, cause Zagreb is pretty doomed to get any decent connections? Wow, what an impressive transit traffic!

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    2. 3. How? Can you prove it or you are further discrediting yourself by writing more speculations? Is that why all the DC-10 from North America always landed first at BEG and then eventually went to ZAG (but not always), even if Zagreb was westernmost? I really wonder why was Zagreb left so undeveloped in Yugoslavia with a match-box terminal, if it was JAT's main transit hub. Ridiculous.

      4. Wow. If all this was true, why Zagreb isn't at least thrice ahead of Belgrade in matter of air-traffic right now?
      (Especially taking into consideration that Serbia was pretty much cut from the rest of the aviation world for 10 years, which should have gave you plenty of time to take considerable advantage, such as BUD did versus BEG.)
      So why wasn't Zagreb chosen as center of air traffic control for SE Europe? Well, if you're unaware of, let me inform you that Belgrade was chosen for that.
      BDP means nothing, since most of travelers in ZAG are foreigners anyway while Croats are busy working paying their debt.

      Statistically, Serbs have less money but they travel much more. How? Cause there is more "pure money" in Serbia that isn't even registered or taxated, while in Croatia it is mostly "credit money".
      Trade, with who? When you'll be part of EU you'll be even more insignificant in every meaning and you're about to taste the bitter reality very soon.

      5. Bonus: Let's all read from a totally independent source what international travelers had to say about the Zagreb airport, on Skytrax -http://www.airlinequality.com/Airports/Airport_forum/zag.htm

      Conclusions: If you was really what you want yourself to be, i don't think you would even care about Belgrade or have time to think that much about it, you just wouldn't damn care... If your "might and grandeur" are so innate and obvious, why do you have to build it on the expense of others, by wishing to others bad faith and condition/place your ascencion on their demise?

      Cause, you see, what Belgrade is, that doesn't depend of Zagreb; cause there is nothing Zagreb can take away from Belgrade and there is nothing Belgrade envies Zagreb for. But in return, what Zagreb is, apparently depends COMPLETELY of what Belgrade is or is not; has or has not.

      Why?

      Because Zagreb is totally OVERSHADOWED in any possible field and way by other cities in the region (Vienna, Budapest, Belgrade) and fueled with historical remourse and nationalistic rethoric, Belgrade becomes the main target/the target of choice or "the closest house that the dog can bark at" out of its own deep frustration.

      So IF you love your city and airport that much, then please develop it and take care of it as much as you want, but leave others in peace, stop looking at them with jealousy and hatred and better invest that energy into building your own "home" and we shall all benefit from such a state of mind at our neighbours.

      Those are the facts.

      Delete
  10. what do you want? to stay in the sh.. forever and claim to be so much different than the other?

    ridiculous behalving to insist on so much difference between Croats, Bosnians, Serbs, Slovenians etc.
    If other nations can live under the same roof, why can t people in ex YU not have joint projects?

    Interestingly most of the nations in the Balkans would like to join the EU. But what s the EU? EU means no border, one big market, one big Europe and join forces...so before entering the EU, live us and show us the EU

    the least the EU needs, is a bunch of dreamers they have to live off

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  11. Mr. JU520 BEGLAX
    This is exactly the point that by entering EU anyone could join whoever he wants and considers appropriate / profitable among 500 airliners in Europe at the moment

    Why to join someone who is worse than you.

    For your easy understanding and example, JAT is free to join TAROM or BULGARIA AIR or anyone else.
    CTN with ADRIA or LH or TAROM or BULGARIA, or TIROLEAN, doesn't matter.
    Certainly, they would and should do it as per their preference and not yours.

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  12. What Croatia gets to come into one company with Jat? Croatia will have to give her new planes to Jat whose fleet is more than too old. And for second time to buy planes to Serbia (Jat fleet was financed by all Republics and it was not split to all in 1990)? Sorry we are not such a big fools! Jat have much more debts than Croatia, Jat's image is disaster in all Europe, especially in Croatia, and Croatia Airlines product and image is good and modern (new fleet, good service, good product, member of Star Alliance), Croatia will not get any new market... Sorry but this idea is very good for Serbia which desperately need new planes and can not have market rising, but it is disaster for Croatia. And I think 68 years of buying things for Serbia (not just in air business) is enough.

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    1. Completely agree with every word!

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    2. If there was no Serbia and Yugoslavia, Croatia would have been burned to the ground by Stalin in 1945.

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    3. Hmmm Stalin or today it would be part of Hungary and Italy ;)
      So if anything Croats have Serbs to thank for being independent today.

      Delete
    4. Right, they're very ungrateful folks...

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  13. This is really funny to read. The odds for this happening is smaller than for all parts of Yugoslavia to unite once again.
    The biggest obstacle and question would be: Which country, and which party would the CEO come from ;-) ? After that question would be solved the next question would be: from which country and which political partys allies would get the contracts on supplying this new airline ;-) ?

    After that is solved the biggest question of all would be: How to get everything to work together as one?

    Nationalism would make sure this company is doomed from the beginning, being it Serbian, Croatian or anyone elses, it wouldnt matter at all.
    All politicians in former YU are the same, no matter what they say or do.

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  14. I guess this article is a mixture of joke, provocation and deliberately interfering into interests of soverign states, in order to discretly promote their own private agenda which is the complete dismantling of all ex-Yu airlines.
    Even more, by putting Croatia and Zagreb in the center of it - the airport with one of the poorest infrastructure (where many planes can't actually land or take-off due to the short runway) and the country that would be the first to dismantle everything what other nations try to build - Yugoslavia was the best example of it. It this was a good idea, JAT would have been still alive and serving all ex-Yu states. CAPA should better look into their own business and advise the carriers in the country it comes from, if their business is not just receiving money in order to lobby the most foolish ideas some interested parties want them to.

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    1. "Not attractive enough for word-wide tourists (just tourist from Balkans, mostly Slovens and Croats in a need to drink)"

      If Belgrade was so bad, why do even Croats drive 6 hours to Belgrade just to have "an evening drink". Cause you must have a good reason to spend all the fuel and do something like that.

      Let me guess, is it because Zagreb is good-enough for "world-wide tourists", but not good-enough for Croats, who need to come to Belgrade to live some decent experience?!

      You are destroying your own argument.

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  15. In 3 years Zagreb will have much better and so modern airport that this old and ugly airport of Belgrade can just dream on.

    It is not true that Zagreb has short runway. All planes can land and take off Zagreb airport. Every year you have impresiv number od 747-400 coming to Zagreb (Japan Airlines, Korean, Tower...).

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    Replies
    1. Prove it. Ah, yes and then you put them in 100 public buses cause you have no air-bridges hahahaha....

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    2. "Impressive numbers"? A couple per day, month year? Still not impressive, buddy!

      Delete
  16. Why do Croats complain about JAT fleet not being shared when the war started?!? We were still Yugoslavia then, not Serbia and planes stayed with the airline of Yugoslavia. You choose to leave and leave it all behind. Do not complain as you are so boring with it. You never ever bought ANYTHING for Serbia ladies!

    As for Zagreb being a tourist destination - yeah, right. Been there, done that, got bored and still foreigners always prefer Belgrade to Zagreb... Off topic but you need to wake up. There's nothing wrong in being a small city you can tour in one day. It's ok to accept it and be happy :)

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    1. I toured Zagreb actually in two hours, there was really nothing to see... Zagreb is totally absent from Qatar Airways destinations description, so "important and influential" it is. No body in the world has ever heard of Zagreb while Belgrade has been and is coming back again as an international metropolis. Look the Wikitravel description for Belgrade and the one for Zagreb, LOL. The international Photovision contest has just been held in Belgrade yesterday. ..Few cities in Europe (not talking of ex-Yu but whole Europe) have such a rich cultural agenda as Belgrade has. Belgrade was voted few years ago as the world's best nightlife city. I think there is not any comparison possible between Zagreb and Belgrade cause it is two completely different categories of city, and that will not change even if Zagreb was to be 200% times bigger than Belgrade and its airport handling 50 million PAX as was said above...

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    2. "Not attractive enough for word-wide tourists (just tourist from Balkans, mostly Slovens and Croats in a need to drink)"

      If Belgrade was so bad, why do even Croats drive 6 hours to Belgrade just to have "an evening drink". Cause you must have a good reason to spend all the fuel and do something like that.

      Let me guess, is it because Zagreb is good-enough for "world-wide tourists", but not good-enough for Croats, who need to come to Belgrade to live some decent experience?!

      You are destroying your own argument.

      Delete
    3. Zagreb receives more tourists than Belgrade annually. Period. So s... the h... up. Enough said. The fact that some people from Croatia and Slovenia go to Belgrade still doesn't change that statistic.
      What a shame for such a "metropolis" like Belgrade.

      Delete
    4. Look at the ZAG passenger numbers and then talk. Maybe Zagreb has more tourists visiting by bus while BEG has more of those coming in by plane.
      I am sorry but ZAG could not even sustain flights on W6!

      Delete
  17. Zagreb airport? A hub? Yes, we all love stairs so much... ahhahahaha :)))

    Maybe ZAG will get modernized but so will BEG which is growing all the time. Please, ZAG, get out of the way now. Real airport needs space. ;)

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    Replies
    1. Yep, the hub that has no air-bridges in year 2012...

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  18. Mr. Tupko
    Fully agree with you, must be provocation.
    Why no nation likes with us?
    I am also crying after JAT. Of course, others should pay and JAT would be alive.
    Fully agree with you, must be joke.

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  19. It is kind of crazy how the European powers pushed for us to split apart in the early 90's and are now urging us to get back together. I have a feeling that this will stretch beyond aviation.

    The reality is that all our countries are still interdependent in a way and that the major trading partners are other countries in the Yugosphere. Whether we get along politically is another issue, but economically we do.

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  20. Firstly, are we really as dumb as the comments above?

    Secondly, in a joint airline situation the people using this service would be the biggest losers. We currently have competition, which is what forces prices down and more people to travel thus having a positive impact on our economies.

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  21. In 2011 Zagreb had 664.176 tourists
    In 2011 Belgrade had 619.124 tourists

    sources:
    Zagreb tourist board:
    http://www.zagreb-touristinfo.hr/docs/press_corner/hr/2012_02.doc

    Serbian statistic institute: http://webrzs.stat.gov.rs/WebSite/repository/documents/00/00/58/45/ut10122011.pdf

    In Zagreb we witness even 747 from Japane and Korea with several thousands of tourists.

    Stop living in dream. Serbian statistic institute:
    Industrijska proizvodnja u Republici Srbiji u februaru2012. godine manja je za 12,8% u odnosu na februar 2011. godine, a u odnosu na prosek 2011. godine manja je za 20,2%. Industrijska proizvodnja u periodu januar – februar 2012. godine, u odnosu na isti period 2011. godine, manja je za 7,9%. Značajan uticaj na pad industrijske proizvodnje u februaru imale su vremenske prilike i otežano snabdevanje industrijskih proizvođača električnom energijom.
    Posmatrano po sektorima, u februaru 2012. godine, u odnosu na isti mesec 2011. godine zabeležena su sledeća kretanja:
    · sektor Prerađivačka industrija – pad od 16,1%,
    · sektor i Rudarstvo – pad od 13,5%, i
    · sektor Snabdevanje električnom energijom, gasom, parom i klimatizacija – pad od 2,8%.
    Podaci o industrijskoj proizvodnji – po namenskim grupama, u februaru 2012. godine, u odnosu na februar prethodne godine, pokazuju da je došlo do pada u proizvodnji:
    · kapitalnih proizvoda, za 24,0%,
    · intermedijarnih proizvoda, osim energije, za 22,3%,
    · netrajnih proizvoda za široku potrošnju, za 7,7%,
    · energije za 7,4%, i
    · trajnih proizvoda za široku potrošnju, za 1,6%.

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    1. Јел схваташ да је твој аргумент потпуно глуп? Заправо, то што си написао само показује снагу српског тржишта које је тренутно оштећено кризом. За коју годину када ова страшна времена прођу видећемо ове тренутно јаке резултате још јачим.
      Огромна предност Србије наспрам Хрватске је то што Србија ће моћи и даље да субвенционише своју индустрију док она не постане конкурентна на међународном тржишту. Ступањем Хрватске у Европски Савез та могућност се губи. Недостатак реформи у Хрватској значи да су субвенције још потребне, што значи да ће разне фирме ићи путем Адрије, то јест ка већем задуживњу.

      Као што је горе наведено, време ће показати своје. Срећно обим државама и порука браћи са западне обале Саве, не заносите се, околности из 1990их су прошле. Данас не можете више да кривите србе за ваше недостатке.

      Delete
    2. Исто тако, хтео би да додам, Београд и Загреб имају прилично исти број туриста на годишњем нивоу. Сви знамо да је Србија имала знатно лошију репутацију на међунарнодном нивоу, што значи да када Србија буде скинула вео лажи којој је намештен, тај број ће постати знатно већи, док ће Загреб мање више остати на истом.

      Пријатно вече.

      Delete
  22. I'm from Hungary. We love all you guys for the style you live and the beauties of your countries but the conversation you have here clearly shows why there's not the slightest chance such cooperation would work. Maybe in another 25 years...

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  23. 1. Wrong. BEG passengers increase is higher than what many EU member states airports had after joining EU (since visas were abolished) and BEG is on the way to over-number SOF this year already.

    2a. "Zagreb has much more connections that BEG. From ZAG you have every day connections to ZAD, PUY, SPU, DBV, SJJ, SKP, PRN." Out of seven, 4 are Croatian cities and 1 is an enemy entity. Jat is starting to fly to some of those coastal cities this year (not that we need it that badly). I don't see the point of this argument.

    2b. Have you counted to how many destinations worldwide you can fly from BEG versus ZAG?
    Well, let me teach you -> You can fly all-year round from Belgrade to 60 destinations on 3 continents versus 40 destinations on one continent with Zagreb. Companies? 15 airlines serving ZAG vs. 24 serving BEG at the moment. This week for example, the cheapest Rome-Moscow round-trip ticket was FCO-BEG-SVO-BEG-FCO. But i guess that wouldn't be possible from Zagreb cause Croatia doesn't even fly to Moscow (might be too far for you LOL).
    So what connections are you talking about? Of few Croatian guys going from Split to Germany via Zagreb to feed Lufthansa's hubs to be able to get anywhere in the world from there, cause Zagreb is pretty doomed to get any decent connections? Wow, what an impressive transit traffic!

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  24. 3. How? Can you prove it or you are further discrediting yourself by writing more speculations? Is that why all the DC-10 from North America always landed first at BEG and then eventually went to ZAG (but not always), even if Zagreb was westernmost? I really wonder why was Zagreb left so undeveloped in Yugoslavia with a match-box terminal, if it was JAT's main transit hub. Ridiculous.

    4. Wow. If all this was true, why Zagreb isn't at least thrice ahead of Belgrade in matter of air-traffic right now?
    (Especially taking into consideration that Serbia was pretty much cut from the rest of the aviation world for 10 years, which should have gave you plenty of time to take considerable advantage, such as BUD did versus BEG.)
    So why wasn't Zagreb chosen as center of air traffic control for SE Europe? Well, if you're unaware of, let me inform you that Belgrade was chosen for that.
    BDP means nothing, since most of travelers in ZAG are foreigners anyway while Croats are busy working paying their debt.

    Statistically, Serbs have less money but they travel much more. How? Cause there is more "pure money" in Serbia that isn't even registered or taxated, while in Croatia it is mostly "credit money".
    Trade, with who? When you'll be part of EU you'll be even more insignificant in every meaning and you're about to taste the bitter reality very soon.

    5. Bonus: Let's all read from a totally independent source what international travelers had to say about the Zagreb airport, on Skytrax -http://www.airlinequality.com/Airports/Airport_forum/zag.htm

    Conclusions: If you was really what you want yourself to be, i don't think you would even care about Belgrade or have time to think that much about it, you just wouldn't damn care... If your "might and grandeur" are so innate and obvious, why do you have to build it on the expense of others, by wishing to others bad faith and condition/place your ascencion on their demise?

    Cause, you see, what Belgrade is, that doesn't depend of Zagreb; cause there is nothing Zagreb can take away from Belgrade and there is nothing Belgrade envies Zagreb for. But in return, what Zagreb is, apparently depends COMPLETELY of what Belgrade is or is not; has or has not.

    Why?

    Because Zagreb is totally OVERSHADOWED in any possible field and way by other cities in the region (Vienna, Budapest, Belgrade) and fueled with historical remourse and nationalistic rethoric, Belgrade becomes the main target/the target of choice or "the closest house that the dog can bark at" out of its own deep frustration.

    So IF you love your city and airport that much, then please develop it and take care of it as much as you want, but leave others in peace, stop looking at them with jealousy and hatred and better invest that energy into building your own "home" and we shall all benefit from such a state of mind at our neighbours.

    Those are the facts.

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