Adria flight staff hint at potential strike


The union representing Adria Airways' pilots has warned of possible industrial action if no progress is made in negotiating their new collective agreements. The Slovenian Pilots Union told the "Siol" portal that a strike could be announced if the carrier's German owners fail to improve the workplace, including shorter hours and a more consistent schedule. "If we do not make significant progress in the next few days in negotiating a new collective agreement to ensure better working conditions, then we will undertake measures available to us within existing legislation", a member of the union said. The union representing Adira Airways' cabin crew is currently contacting its members to discuss a possible walk-out should talks with the management fail.

According to the pilot union, crew duty times have been significantly extended, while there have also been complaints of more out-of-base operations. The existing collective agreement expires at the end of September, but a new one should be inked by the end of August, at the latest. Unions warn that rights within their existing contacts are regularly breached, while July's wages were delayed by several days. Pilot union leader, Luka Radovic, said, "Pilots need to work in line with the collective agreement. The consequences are fatigue and sick leave. Instead of the company scheduling thirty flights per day, there should be five less. This would provide enough standby personnel in the event an aircraft is grounded or there is a lack of staff". Mr Radovic previously noted, "We are under a great deal of stress. The flexibility we provide to the company is quite high compared to previous years. We also work more than fifty hours a week and Adria has been breaching the collective agreement for some time".

Adria Airways' CEO, Holger Kowarsch, refused to comment on the potential strike, noting, "Negotiations concerning the conclusion of a new collective agreement are internal". The last time Adria Airways' pilots went on strike was in March 2017. The industrial action lasted for two days. Following the announcement of further strikes, a deal was reached with the company's management. The potential industrial dispute comes at a time when Adria is seeking to win back the trust of its passengers following operational issues experienced over the past two months. Over the last year, the carrier has hired more than fifty pilots and seventy crew members.




Comments

  1. How much are pilots at Adria paid?

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    Replies
    1. And are the Ljubljana based and Pristina based pilots paid the same?

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    2. As far as I'm aware 8.000 euros gross per month (4.000 euros for co-pilots).

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    3. @Anonymous21 August 2019 at 09:02:
      What does it have to do with anything? They are not paid enough for the amount of work and conditions.

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    4. I was just interested in what pilots are paid. Not judging, no matter the amount.

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    5. It's still a very responsible job, so it should be well payed. Handling with people's lives isn't cheap. If one does it's job well, one should be paid well. That's only my personal opinion tho.

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    6. They are paid the same in all bases.

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    7. There are no "real" bases. Pilots based in LJU fly from PRN (or the OS and LH wet lease).

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    8. JP CMD's gross goes onaverage at 10K. Should someone say is's a bad salary? They never worked hard and most of them dont know what means working hard. Go on work for Wizz, Ryan and you will see what means going to bed after every flight ... Compare it with LX or WK or LH and you will see the the banchmark. Always taking care of their own ass only, not for Cabin Crew, not for office people ... This time they can probably just switch off the light .. .

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    9. 10k gross?! Wtf?! Not working hard?! You really have no clue what you are talking about, do you? Ryanair has 5/4, same as Wizz and Easy. Compare that to a crappy 5/2/5/3 with overnights every day and 11 hour duty and you can easily see which company is better. "Taking care of their own ass only" as opposed to taking care of your ass, right?

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    10. One more thing. I guess since Adria has the same conditions as LH, LX and better than all LCCs (according to Anon 11:15) , ALL of the new foreign FOs are trying to leave as soon as possible because they think they are not worthy of Adria's excellent terms and conditions?!

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    11. Bus drivers also work hard and have a responsible job, and none of them earns 10k per month.

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    12. Haha, but they won't be awarded any medals if they stop the bus in a corn field, will they? Stupid comment.

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    13. Anon@9:02 is definitely a pilot. Who else can justify such blackmailing. :-)

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    14. I mean anon@10:03

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    15. If they are not happy with the conditions, they are more than welcome to seek employment elsewhere.

      But that requires ability to pass an interview...

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    16. I wouldn't worry too much about their ability to pass an interview. Some will, some won't.

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  2. This is just hilarious. JP has become such a tragic business and an embarrassment for Slovenia. Luckily LJU has been preparing for this scenario for a while now. I hope they go on strike because JP has become extremely useless. Hopefully when they go bankrupt Wizz Air, Ryanair or easyJet can open a base in LJU.

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  3. They always think of a reason why they can't sing the agreement.

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    Replies
    1. Yeah, like management not wanting to negotiate.

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  4. Last time there was the strike in 2017 there wasn't that much disruption because they wet leased planes and crew from other airlines, but I wonder how much it cost and if this time around they could sustain that cost.

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    1. This time around JP's finances are an absolute mess and I don't think they could sustain a single day of strike. Only goes to show how fed up the employees are that they don't even care.
      Actually OU should step in if they could and save them in case of a strike. The last thing they need is JP going bust and LJU becoming some sort of a heaven for LCC carriers.

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  5. "and a more consistent schedule."

    Well I understand this demand. Today there are 2 flights cancelled already - Munich and Vienna while Zurich this afternoon has already been delayed by 2 hours.

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  6. A strike would be the last nail in the coffin. I really don't see how pilots can be so short sighted and in the end bankrupt the company if they go ahead with this.

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    1. Typically opportunist move by pilots, timed as always to perfection. They usually don't give a damn about any other employees. Why? Because they are mobile and they can take their skillset somewhere else if things are not to their liking where they currently are. Meanwhile, everyone else, who don't have such options, are held to ransom by the actions of these pilots.

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    2. I support the pilots! Always will! Your corporate bs speech does not get any sympathy from me.

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    3. It's not corporate speech, it's common sense. Aren't they aware of the condition JP is in?! Have they been sleeping for the past few years? If they are so unhappy then they can go and work for someone else, I heard Wizz is hiring. Maybe they can base them in Tuzla.

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    4. @Anonymous21 August 2019 at 09:10
      Me thinks, you are one of the guys/gals sitting in Adria's office building doing nothing the whole day (like answering damn the damn phone when the customer is calling to check if their flight has been cancelled).

      Just to let you know, a lot of pilots have families. Moving them around every year or so is not everyones cup of tea. Maybe you should try being "mobile".

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    5. There are commuting jobs available for people who do not wish to relocate.

      But I guess it's easier to go cry to PM than to send CV and go to the interview.

      Adria's pilots are still stuck in SFRJ.

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    6. I see, so being a gypsy is the only solution. Well, good for you that you have decided to have such a life. You must be so proud of yourself.

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    7. If you don't like the "gypsy" lifestyle, there is always option to relocate.

      Slovenian pilots have known for a very long time that there is both limited aviation market in Slovenia as well as both limited number of companies/jobs for pilots in Slovenia.

      And knowing this, it is insane if you expect you will be able to work your entire career in Slovenia, preferably without spending a single day abroad. As an airline pilot, right?

      What's the solution? Should government just pay every qualified commercial pilot because they don't wish to work abroad for a while? Wouldn't this be unfair to other citizens who have chosen or indirectly forced to do so? Or are pilots above the second class citizens?

      I really wonder...

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    8. @Anonymous21 August 2019 at 18:48:

      What's the point you're trying to make (if there even is one)?!

      Let me ask you something. Are you by any chance a pilot (perhaps a former, disgruntled Adria's one)? I would love to have you phone number so we can discuss things privately.

      Who the hell said anything about working at home everyday?!?!?! Nobody is going to strike over the fact most of Adria's operation consists of ACMI (for every ignorant buffoon, that means not sleeping in your own bed).

      What the does it mean for the government to pay pilots to stay at home?! Above the second class citizens?! Did someone force you to go abroad and now you don't like it and wish every one to be as miserable as you? You really have some issues, mate.

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    9. The point I was trying to make is, you are in the private sector now.

      So as long as Adria respects the law, please don't go crying to PM asking if he could nationalise the airline.

      If Adria goes bust because it can't survive on the market, so be it.

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    10. Who then f*** was asking the PM about nationalizing Adria? Where you by any chance at the meeting?! But the PM has every right to known what kind of people are running the company. If he wants to do anything about, it's his choice.

      But I personally would love to see your money and money from the likes of you, to be invested in Adria. Just to piss you off.

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    11. How the f do you know what was going on at the meeting? Where you there? I for one would love to let the former owner know what kind of clowns are running the company now. If he wants to do anything about it, it's up to him.

      But most of all, I would love for the government to invest money into Adria. Just to piss people like you off.

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    12. What kind of things are going on in Adria, a private company that would involve the PM?

      Seriously?

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    13. Uuh, how about money laundering?! You're right, they should have gone to the State prosecutor. Is that what you wanted to hear?

      You really have an axe to grind, don't you? Would you care to explain why?

      Delete
  7. A pilot is a job with LOTS of demand - one of the most stressful and difficult in the world. Hope they reach an agreement.

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    1. It was yes 20 years ago and today the case with LCC's who intese 900 hours per year. JP is/was a dream job till it last.

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    2. I guess that's the reason why all foreign pilots want to leave ASAP. Because it's a dream job. Right?

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    3. All foreign pilots want to leave because of the toxic attitudes of Adria's employees where everybody is still divided between ours (Slovenes) and the others (foreigners).

      Plus there are better jobs available, as Slovenian pilots in Adria should know. But it's the traditional couch mentality - home sweet home and never live more than 100m from your mother.

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    4. And you should know that, because you work for Adria? Foreigners want to leave, because there are better T&C elsewhere.

      Some of us live with our wives, not mothers. But to each his own. Nobody is judging you.

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  8. everyone in the JP company has to get used that the company does not belong to the state anymore! good luck to everyone!

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    1. So what do you suggest? They should all be overworked because of that?

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    2. They are not overworked.

      Head of the union says they are working to the limit of their collective agremeent that:

      1. Is much more restrictive than the legal limits.

      2. They themselves have signed.

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    3. And you got this information from who?! You have EASA limits posted below. Then only two differences are max DP in 7 days (3 hours leass as governed by ZDR) and max yearly DP. So cut the crap. Flying 60+ sectors per month is overworked. Period.

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    4. ZDR is an ancient piece of paper that is written with the mentality that everybody works either in a factory or an office, like it's still 1960.

      Every country with modern labour legislation allows for the possibility of seasonal/random shift jobs that do not conform to the 9-5 or 3 shift factory schedule and such jobs are exempt from normal labour laws.

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    5. Wow, it would make a whole lot of difference if pilots were allowed to work 60 hours/week instead of 57. Yes, Adria would be making millions and you would be allowed to bitch about every single thing you don't like. Right?

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  9. Considering the airline's finances, couldn't have come at a worse time.

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    Replies
    1. It is so easy...bite when someone is the weakest...but yes I agree with you.

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    2. @Anonymous21 August 2019 at 09:44:
      Or maybe, just maybe, the collective agreement is about to expire.

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  10. Pilots should see the company get through these tough times and then engage management when the company is in a much better healthier state.

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    Replies
    1. if the management wants you to work even more for less money, you have every right to go on strike!

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    2. Or, you have a right to go and work elsewhere and not put everyone else's job at risk

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    3. Why should I give a damn about administrative personnel, when they're trying to make me work harder?! I didn't know that Adria is a charity organization. If/when it goes bust, than I will look for another job elsewhere.

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    4. But you see, you can't work or fly for an airline if it doesn't have admin and other staff to support you. And, if the airline does go under, you can take your skills elsewhere, while they can't...That's how it is and you know it.

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    5. Salaries have been decreasing for years but the company is still making loss. So your suggestion is to keep quite and accept it for the greater good?

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    6. @Anonymous21 August 2019 at 09:49:

      Again, you are probably just sitting in the office of Adria. Why the hell are you not doing your job and are instead posting comment on ex-yu? Too little work, eh? How about selling tickets, notifying passengers of delays/cancellations, finding a way to pay all the bills on time?!

      If I were you, I too would be very afraid about my future. Nobody wants to hire lazy people with no skills. Except Adria Airways.

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    7. Usually when a company is in trouble, all employees rally and work hard together to make the situation better; unfortunately it looks like there are greedy pilots and lazy admin fighting each other, instead of working together to fight the competition.

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    8. Well, no, nobody is fighting anybody. But if someone is accusing somebody of being greedy, they should first get their things in order before pointing their finger at others.

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    9. I am a Adria pilot and I can tell you that the relationship is bad, meetings with management are even worse. No understanding from either side. We earn good money but work conditions are hectic and really bad. Rosters change all the time, we are informed of a flight last minute and in summer they make it impossile to take a holiday. Money is bad and we were informed by airports that JP is starting to be late with payments to them as well. Not good, not good at all. Many don't understand that it was never this bad in the airline.

      p.s. the government is openly siding with Germans.

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    10. 1. What has the government have to do with contracts between a private company and their employees as long as it is in line with labour law?

      2. If the money is bad and conditions are bad, why don't you go somewhere else? Pilot market was excellent in the past 2 years.

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  11. I hope Adria resolves some of its issues.

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  12. In case of Adria bankruptcy: 1. is it easy for these pilots to find another airline to work for (and with similar salary), not counting relocation if they need to move?

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    1. And 2. is it possible for Adria to find other new pilots willing to work instead of the current ones and on the same conditions as now. I think pilots are very well protected by the contracts so can not be dismissed easily. Just asking if they are other qualified pilots "on the market" ready to work without making fuss

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  13. Unions are useless in today's society.

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  14. Strikes are expensive and are in JPs case even a bankruptcy risk. Quite a share of employees work with passion and dedication since decades for JP, all the more it is odd to see the pilots irresponsible behavior.

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    Replies
    1. These fools are digging their own grave. Let me see how your wages look when you don't have a job at all. If you can get more money from another airline, you are free to walk now.

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    2. Dosta je bilo vise sa komunjarskom Adriom. Treba da ide u istoriju. Sloveniji ne treba taj znak suveriniteta. LCC aerodrom u Brniku sto pre.

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    3. @Anonymous21 August 2019 at 09:51:
      Yeah, sure. Ryan, Wizz and Easy are just begging Fraport to decrease their fees, because LJU is on top of their agenda. Get real. Wizz just cancelled CRL during the winter.

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    4. Kraj Adrie sto pre onda ce i Fraport drugacije da peva nece mu se isplatiti da drzi prazan aeroport na koji slecu samo LH i JU.

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  15. Simple math = doesn't increasing salaries cost less than the pilot strike (leasing aircraft, penalties and rerouting to passengers)...?

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    1. Pilots have right to ask for higher salaries and they cannot be blamed if JP goes bust- only 4k can- if that happens. Remember, Adria has survived worse crises, this should not be an issue really.

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    2. Normally you ask for higher salaries when the company is doing well.

      But not with Balkan socialist mentality.

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    3. Austria raised salaries in public sector to fight against crisis in 2010, on the other hand it lowered taxes. Just to compare. Sometimes crazy plans work well.

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    4. Increasing cost of workforce (salaries etc.) is going to help pay debts to suppliers?

      You should teach economics.

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  16. So then it should go belly up. Companies who can't pay their employees proper wages or pay on time should not exist.

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  17. The entire management of the company should be replaced! It's just one problem after the other.

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    Replies
    1. Private owner, private company, private matter.

      As long as laws are respected and people get paid...

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  18. Let them strike until JP is bankrupt and then management can blame pilots for it.How can you, in this situation, ask for a salary increase. Pilots must be nuts. Where is your responsibility?

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    Replies
    1. Nowhere did they say they want a salary increase. They want their salaries to be paid on time!

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    2. This is not so much about money but about tights and obligations.

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  19. I'm surprised by all the agro on here towards pilots.

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  20. And we are STILL waiting for 2018 financial report. Should clear up a lot of things regarding Adria.

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    Replies
    1. They have by the law another 10 days to publish it.

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  21. Could they not have waited a bit. They could not have chosen a worse tine for the airline.

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    Replies
    1. I've been hearing this for the last 10 years. It's always the "worst time" for Adria.

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    2. There is never a good time to go on strike ;)

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  22. I think 4K will give in to the demands this time. They simply can't afford a strike.

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    Replies
    1. They can't afford the demand either ;)

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  23. I don't think there will be a strike. The pilots are just issuing threats because we are in that phase of the negotiations.

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  24. The majority of posters of the above comments have no clue, whatsoever! No one is demanding higher salaries. Just get the operation in order. Working 5 days in a row for 11 hours per day and having two days off is not the way forward. So cut the bullshi* with the usual overpaid, underworked pilots crap.

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    Replies
    1. Exactly! People aren't even reading the article. Or they are not digesting the information. No one is asking for more money, just normal working conditions.

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    2. Because most of the comments about foolish pilots are written by wana be pilots who have no clues about what is going on in the demands of the pilots. And the same hate pilots commentators knows best about anything while probably they really did not achieved nothing in their life. Nobady asked you and nobady caress about what do you think. We are fighting our own fight and if you allow to treated as shit that is your problem.

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    3. Wow, man, Anon 21:37. Your English is so bad that it makes me kind of afraid to even think about flying with you at the helm.

      On topic: Go and strike if you wish, you have every right to do so. I wish you all the luck. But don't be surprised if it comes to bite you in the ass.

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    4. Anon 21:37: Good luck passing English assessment at your next job interview after Adria goes bust.

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  25. Two years ago I said here that I hoped the management learned something out 2017 strike mess and that they will not have the same issues when they start negotiating collective agreements the next time around. Guess I was wrong.

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  26. It's really sad that we constantly keep on hearing negative things about Adria. I really wonder if there might come a day when this becomes a thing of the past. I doubt it but you never know.

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    Replies
    1. Probably when also Adria will become a part of the past. And the time is not that far away...

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  27. I really hope Adria rebounds.

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  28. I don't understand why so many people love to hate Adria pilots on here. Pilots get paid above the national average in pretty much every single country in the world.

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    Replies
    1. It's typical jealousy.

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    2. So as I can see the general thinking in the world is this : if he makes more money than me i can comment and think that it isn't fair..even if that guy is a pilot or a surgeon..well here is the problem dude-you had the same starting point as pilots and surgeons, so why arent you a pilot? It is because you cannot be it, because you are bot up to the task, you cannot pass through initial medical tests, you cant stay up all night studying on a saturday when all your friends are on a birthday party, you cant be in a stressful situation with bad weather, aircraft icing and turbulence and stay calm..I think it is some jealousy in work here..

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    3. Because Adria's pilots were (in the past) partly responsible for the airline's losses.

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  29. Can't they do what Croatia Airlines did? Sign a multi year collective agreement and avoid potential strikes for a couple of years.

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    Replies
    1. It usually is multi year. The last one lasted for 2 years.

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  30. And when someone here said last week that staff were thinking about a strike someone attacked that person here as being an Adria hater and making things up.

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  31. Wouldn't be the first time they threatened with the strike and nothing happened. I think they are just trying to secure a better negotiating position.

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  32. What's an average flight and duty hours they produce per year?

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  33. trying to achieve better/stable/predictable working conditions is a bold demand for anyone in any business. what is unfortunate the industry is heavily arbitrarily impacted by many human or non human factors. therefore everyone dealing with large amounts of stress but pilots being on top of the chain always make it the most difficult only for themselves even though their actual work of manipulating the vehicle is usually very predictable and regulated to the extent of following the check points...The environment is not the most pleasant but it is not for the drivers of other vehicles either. So it many not be the case they bear that much responsibility for others but the nature of having possibility to influence still proves they care mostly for themselves.
    If company makes new appearance in different form it would be interesting to see who would adapt to newly established working conditions from scratch and not try to use its existing lobbying skills

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  34. EU:
    (a) The total duty periods to which a crew member may be assigned shall not exceed:
    (1) 60 duty hours in any 7 consecutive days;
    (2) 110 duty hours in any 14 consecutive days; and
    (3) 190 duty hours in any 28 consecutive days, spread as evenly as practicable throughout that period.
    (b) The total flight time of the sectors on which an individual crew member is assigned as an operating crew member
    shall not exceed:
    (1) 100 hours of flight time in any 28 consecutive days;
    (2) 900 hours of flight time in any calendar year; and
    (3) 1 000 hours of flight time in any 12 consecutive calendar months.
    (c) Post-flight duty shall count as duty period. The operator shall specify in its operations manual the minimum time
    period for post-flight duties.

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  35. A lot of trouble on the horzion for Adria. In addition to the possible strike, and Swiss considering ending its Zurich-Lugano route which uses two Adria Saabs, Luxair is unhappy with Adria's CRJs operations according to media in Luxembourg. So we will see what happens.

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    Replies
    1. For all we know, Adria might as well be a profitable company, given how long 4K has been funneling money out of it and they are still (sort of) flying.

      They just never had a serious owner, only crooks.

      Delete
  36. I bet management will accept all the conditions to keep the ops going for two more months, as they are also aware that there won't be an Adria in 2020.

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    Replies
    1. Might be true, as no changes are anticipated until June 2020 (as far as the collective agreement is concerned).

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  37. What a destructive idea.

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  38. I can understand the employees. They are the backbone of the company and do a very good job. You cannot always give but not receive anything in return.

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  39. all it takes is for one creditor to pull the plug and it's game over. 4k sure as hell isn't goint to funnel fresh money into adria and with current state of financial affairs at adria no new massive pilot hiring is in sight (i.e. can't afford it). so tick-tock tick-tock. worst case scenario - the crj rated pilots will have a chance to have a blast in sudan/rwanda and such exotic holiday countries, where they still operate the type :D

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    Replies
    1. Nema smisla vise produzavati pricu. Bez podrske drzave kao OU, JU i YM oni su gotovi. Banja Luka 2. Ljudi ce morati da se sele sa poslom.

      Delete
    2. yes. and better sooner than later. As it can be read in the news Thomas Cook, flybmi and a couple of others are also in dire financial troubles and may soon go bust. Ryan is consolidating bases. Soon there won't be airbus rated pilot shortage, but overflow.

      the crj & saab rated will be lucky to be able to find a pay-to-fly job on some LCC to pay of their new type rating.

      Delete
    3. the younger stewardesses (minority from my experience at adria) will have no problem in finding a job (sarcasm on). there is a shortage of hospitality personnel across the country. only problem is these are all basically minimum wage + tip salaries, and you can't wear turquise uniform. so qatar, emirates & those women friendly countries are calling.

      The support/administration workers will have the toughest time.

      Delete
    4. flybmi is already gone, but regarding CRJ type rated pilots, they may find jobs at Cityjet or Nordica (RegionalJet), as they are pretty much starting to follow American regional carrier model, which Adria tried to follow.

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    5. Svake godine odlazi u penziju more pilota zaista im nece biti problem naci posao. na kraju zive u EU jednom od najbogatijih krajeva sveta zaista svako iz avio industrije moze naci novi posao. Ne sklapaju tomose. Da li ti citas koliko traze stevki svake godine?

      Delete
  40. the common denominator of the last posts is "no problem finding a job, you just have to move and follow the job". and this is basically the exact thing the guys and gals at adria wish not to do.

    citijet is ACMI company...just the thing the pilots are nagging at the moment they don't wish to do because they are out of lju base too much time.

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    Replies
    1. I agree, although I still do not understand why some people perceive the wish of someone to work from a place close to his/hers family as a sign of weakness?! So as a pilot one must assume a life of a gipsy (let's face it, there is no long term planning in aviation).

      Delete
    2. It would be extremely naive to go into pilot profession thinking you will be home every night and will never have to move in your life at the same time.

      The fact is that most older Adria pilots lived in a government-black hole-sponsoring bubble their entire careers until recently and have never seen the real life, where unprofitable companies go bust or where causing financial damage to the company results in termination of employment.

      Time for a wake up call.

      Which pilots employed in private airline anywhere in the world are visiting the president/PM with regards to labour issues?

      Delete
    3. just speculating, but i'm also wondering if they are not having some sorts of internal drama between the old "i won't work for less than 15k EUR, i can even retire if i wish" captains from the YU times and the new young guys who are seeing that the sh*t can hit the fan at any time

      Delete
    4. @Anonymous August 2019 at 17:35:

      Naive or not, nobody should be happy with being a "part time" husband/father. There is something seriously wrong with you, if you prefer being strapped into a metal tube over spending the time with your family.

      Pilots, whose state sold a company to incompetent bunch of twats who are draining the company.

      Delete
    5. to all stupid idiots who think one should just shut up and eat whatever employer serves. Try it yourself. Whenever this problem pops up, armchair businessmen/experts are full of ideas like shit is full of vitamines. Have you lived under the rock for the last decade? How many crew industrial actions have been there? A lot! Even Ryanair pilots brought their company to the knees, and it was not (only) about their salaries. You always think of salaries and someone (who deserves darvin award for business) compared bus driver with a pilot. Well, there you go, another briliant idea where to recruit crew members....anybody, even trained monkey can be a pilot these days....
      No, I'm not a professional pilot, but I know how things operate in this business. Airline operations and working conditions are heavily regulated in order to provide safe environemnt. Do you realy want to see pilots working like those Romanian combi drivers? No regulation, no rest, just money making operation....no regards to safety of the passengers and to drivers...of course you don't want that.

      What, you morons? Adria pilots have no right for decent working conditions?

      Delete
    6. Wow, bravo! Hats off to you, sir!

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    7. sorry Bor but you are full of crap. Nowhere and never was any statement that they are not safe or exceeding EU prescribed limits for work hours or rest or anything similar. a couple of days of late payment of wages or multiple days out of LJU is not in any ways endangering their safe operation of flight. They are just snowflaking, that's it. So your comparison doesn't mean anything, because it's baseless in this respect.

      Why I fully understand them and support their right to have better conditions, the right of the employer is also to answer to them to p*ss off regarding some demands. As is with every business sector. If the company management decides they will go into ACMI the pilots can leave the company or swallow it. business decisions cannot be forced with strikes (such strikes are deemed illegal as already established by multiple court decisions).

      Reading between the lines in the last couple of months and from some commentators I suspect that the growing of ACMI business is not what the pilots want and they try to avoid it as much as possible. The problem is that regular lines are not profitable (or only 4-5 are), so the management can't give into canceling ACMI, because they will go bust in a heartbeat.

      Also management can't hire a lot of new pilots, because they don't have the money for that, and they are not potential employee's first wish for employment....from what i hear people are leaving as soon as they can. So management is constrained in this regard.

      So why I see that the pilots have reached their limit and can understand their demands and wishes, i also think that the management has no Spielraum left and noone will provide wet leases in case of strike without up-front payment which adria does not have. So a prolonged strike is the end of adria.

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    8. just to add to my previous post: and we all can agree based on the moves, that the guys at 4K are a bunch of amateurs, but nevertheless....there is only as much that they can do at the moment.

      Because forget fantasies that they will inject money into the company which could resolve almost every ongoing issue. They are not here to do that, never forget that.

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    9. They are not amateurs, they are crooks, there's a big difference.

      Regarding the strike - there's nothing to comment. They have the right and that's it. The company is going bust in the next few months regardless.

      Delete
    10. @Anonymous21 August 2019 at 18:47:

      I disagree with you on bor being full of crap. He does have a valid point.

      And a first hand information for you. Nobody is trying to wiggle out of ACMI (understandably, no one is happy about it). When it comes to roster and fatigue, that is a different matter. That's it. Nothing more.

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    11. noone is wiggling out of it, because you can't , it's your obigation to fly :P

      but from the anon that wrote the original comment and your comment combined I see where the sentiment is. Yes, you (the pilots) cannot wiggle out, but will do everything to push management to lessen the ACMI rotation on you. But as some anons already wrote, the problem is adria doesn't have money nor the reputation to get anboard 50 pilots in a week. so cutting lines basically permanently is the only solution at the moment. And I have a feeling they don't want to do that. But probably would have to do it, at least the worst performing ones. But it is complicated, I will grant you that, especially if the info is right that only 400k passenger out of 1.2 million are O&D LJU, the rest transfers. So cutting routes will have cascade effects on the whole network.

      Interesting times, where there cannot be a winner. good luck to all involved. As slavoj zizek would say: there is a light at the end of the tunnel. it is the light from the train that is coming from the opposite direction :)

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    12. Working 50+ hours per week, 1800 hours and 600 sectors per year is unsustainable long term. Period.

      Delete
  41. To figure out how many hours are in a "work year," multiply the number of work hours in a week by the number of weeks in a year. In other words, multiply a typical 40 hour work week by 52 weeks. That makes 2,080 hours in a typical work year.

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    1. Your point being? Are you comparing office work with pilot's? Sure hope not.

      Delete
    2. 1800/52= 34 work hours per week

      Delete
    3. Hmm, you do realise "week" for pilots is not Mon-Fri, don't you? It's a block of 5 consecutive days. Again, I hope you're not comparing pilots and office workers.

      Delete
  42. From Monday to Friday is not 5 consecutive days ?

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    1. Who said that?! Pilots do not have your usual 7.00-15.00, Mon-Fri job. Once again, do not bs with office job=pilot's job.

      Delete
  43. Party continues today. Morning Munich is cancelled and so is the noon Sofia flight. They are really falling apart and I noticed that for a few nights JU has upgraded TIA to A319. This is bad news for them since Albania was traditionally a strong market for them. I guess passengers are moving away to other airlines.

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    1. You can just tell that the end is now near. But I'm totally not ready for it - it would be our favourite aviation telenovela with the biggest number of twists and turns coming to an end.
      Adria and their investors' utter incompetence has been such a great source of endless entertainment on a weekly basis that it's going to be so hard to say goodbye.

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    2. MUC in SOF ni odpovedan

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    3. MUC and SOF are not cancelled.

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    4. Ha ha, anon 08:50, exactly. But in that case the venue of new series of telenovela will move slightly south-east...

      Delete
  44. As always, lots of interesting and grounded thoughts, but also a lot of so stupid inputs, which only such forums can usually handle.
    First:
    mobility of administrative workers - somebody here pronounced them as being hostages of arrogant pilots, who can always find themselves decent jobs, when on the other hand administrative and office workers can't. Such a comment can only come from somebody, who has spent almost all of his or her work lifetime in one company only. Usual insecure mentality of old socialist style. Please, take a look at fast changing employment environment in Slovenia, take a look how young people today have to adopt to the situation, where there are limited jobs for permanent contract employments and more and more employers are offering limited time jobs. This is reality, which on the other side, very well known for ages in capitalism oriented western world. And there is really nothing bad on this, because it actually initiates individuals need and desire to develop their skills, to expand their horisons to get better position on job markets.
    But it can be hard for older people to adapt to this. Yet it can be done and it has to be done if you do not want to end sleeping bellow the bridge or which is still very often in Slovenia, get state aid for unemloyment.
    Again, office workers can easily find similar jobs in any other area of economy, you can hardly speak about aviation specialization in office positions. So, again, normal and not desperate thinking office staff are in better position if Adria goes down. They will find jobs in the same place, where there family, kids are living, going to schools... they will not be separated from their families, as it is almost sure for all the pilots, which have to relocate to other countries, in most cases even to other continents.
    Even majority of cabin crew in Adria have university degree in various branches, so they also will not have such a hard time to find them decent jobs.
    So do not speak BS about mobility issues and poor office workers being held as hostages of pilots.

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  45. Second: stupid remark made by somebody about unions being obsolete these days. Where do you live actually? Unions are the only LEGAL tool and protection of all workers in representations and protection of workers tools. This is put in legal frame in Constitution, in legislation and recognized by every party in society because of that.
    Other than union work and measures, there is no legal tool available and you would only have anarchy, from both sides instead.

    Regarding salaries of pilots - first of all, numbers mentioned are not correct. End of discussion on this.
    And as many others reacted, at this point, it has been mentioned, only pilots requirements for better utilisation and rosters have been pointed out, as one oif the elements which should be discussed in legally provided time for preparation of new contract - old one expiring.

    Adria is not collapsing because of irrational pilots salaries or working time demands. Even if pilots would agree to work for free and to all the maximums management would like them to, this would not help Adria, because problems are on a much more bigger level than any possible raise in salaries. It is collapsing because of bad management from the moment, German ignorant yuppies entered the company. They have entered with only 100K EUR of their own capital and state gave Adria last financial injection of over 4M EUR at that time. German youngsters had a plan to make some small cosmetic changes to the companies, to make it more appealing to potential buyers and to sell for a big amount of money very quickly. At some point, two years ago, they have requested 20M for it. 100K for 20M, fairy tale, which of course, with Adria modest assets could never come through.
    But they are good at one thing only - to make use of all possible holes in legal and administrative system, to actually leak out money in many different forms and still to maintain accounting meet poor Slovene fiscal standards. Creative accounting in as many forms you can imagine or even not imagine so far. Like selling the brand to their colleague company, to make paper money for the accounting and also real monthly money income from leasing a brand. And after some time, after raising the value of the brand, sell it again back, to again raise the imaginary financial state of the company, without any real money coming in, just changing the structure of ownership among buddies.
    So, 4K actually is stucked with a company which they can not sell.
    In the mean time, they grab whatever they can, day by day, that is probably the reason, why they still make use of any opportunity to prolong the agony, which can hardly be resolved even with new reasonable investor, since the debt towards suppliers is measured in tens of millions of EURs. They are floating on a specific status, that no suppliers want to initiate the insolvency procedure first, because they all know, when whenever somebody throws the rock first, it will be the end with no money for any of them at all. Now they are just counting for crums they are getting from time to time.
    Small suppliers, like hotels in Tirana and Pristina just kick the crews out, big ones at the moment just wait a little bit more.

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  46. Fourth:
    4K is a dead end street for Adria. These amateurs are just looking for the moment and elegant way out. And a legal action would be perfect for that, definitely.
    And general public would buy the story, like they have bought the lie, about discontinuation of maintenance contract with Adria Tehnika. The real reason has been, to lower AT prices again and AT did not want to do that any more. Lie about AT not having Saab maintenance endorsed as a reason for break up, can only be bought by general public, served by "yellow" reporters, not capable to explore real fact and also the fact that replacement company not only not having Saabs, but also CRJ maintenance endorsements, fleet which is a backbone of Adria operations.

    So, Adria pilots, just keep on fighting proudly for your rights - it is the normal way of negoating things, to make them at least bearable, if not better. Every company management in capitalist world should take this as normal process and into account.
    At least, you would be standing up straight in this complete screw-up, state did when selling old, well known company to some amateur idiots.

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  47. Some one from the pilot union is really burning here. :-)

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  48. like Wile E Coyote from the Road Runner cartoon.... he hovers in the air obove an abyss, and then only after he looks downwards, he falls and slams into the valley :D

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  49. Whenever airliner go bust during the pilot strike all those pilots might be hardly employable by any new airline. Why? They will be on the list "troublemaker pilot". They will not reach even the hearings... Spanair pilots might share more info...

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  50. Most of the people writing here are just jelous because some people did something with their lives!!! Being a pilot or a cabin crew is a very hard and rewarding job. It's a lifestyle...and i applaud those people for standing up and figjting for their rights. LCCs did a damage to all aviation! Because of them aviation is no longer what it was and it will never be! I hope the story will have a happy ending. People who don't work in aviation don't have a clue about anything. They think that being a pilot or a cabin crew means that you travel to exotic countries, staying in 5 star hotels and doing nothing else. Sitting in an office for 8 hours or being in air for 8hours is a completly different story and they will never get it!!! I would say to those people, just try for 1 week flying every day for 10-12 hours and 56 hors in 7 days and than write stupid commentš. I really want to know how would they comment than...

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    1. LCCs caused damage to aviation?

      Such as enabling people to fly without spending half of their yearly income on a singe ticket? Creating thousands of jobs in the industry, from crew to engineers, check-in staff, baggage handlers, airport security and not to mention other job growth that comes with increased tourism? Actually making profitable businesses instead of posh-image airlines on comtinuous government life support? Look at the big ones, Southwest or Ryanair with hundreds and hundreds of aircraft, transporting safely hundreds of millions of passengers per year and employing tens of thousands of people. Sure, aviation will never be like it was before LCC but at least with LJU-BRU ticket prices we can all enjoy a bit of nostalgia.

      “Some people did something with their lives”. You sound like a typical silver-spoon fed Adria pilot who has completely lost touch with reality. All jobs in this society are important - from toilet cleaners to presidents or CEOs - even though the difference in salary is important. But I guess that is a bit too much to understand for such highly educated people like pilots. Better go crying to Sarec for some more money.

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    2. Corr: difference in salary is enormous.

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    3. @Anonymous 23 August 2019 at 01:56:

      I don't know, if you're the same annon as some of them above, but you really have a problem with Adria's pilots. Where you rejected at Adria at some point?

      Yes, some LCCs (mainly Ryan and a frw regionals in the USA) caused heavy damage. Judging by your post, you have no clue what's going on on the apron. Do you know, that for example BRU, MUC, STN have trouble finding ground handling staff? Crap job, low salary.

      So just because pilots in Adria would like to avoid working for a bottom feeder (which is what Adria is turning into), you think they are spoiled, silver spoon fed brats?

      You sure sound like a true Slovene. Smart ass and envious.

      Delete
    4. Companies having trouble finding people? They'll raise the salaries then. Supply and demand. Any manager woild be very silly to pay people a cent more than it takes for them not to leave the company. And in case of skilled labour which takes long time to train, the margin needs to be higher, as usually notice period is shorter than the time it takes to recruit and train a new employee. Economics 101.

      And no, I waa never rejected by Adria, thank you very much.

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    5. @Anonymous23 August 2019 at 01:56

      "You sound like a typical silver-spoon fed Adria pilot who has completely lost touch with reality"
      You have just proven my point - People who don't work in aviation don't have a clue about aviation and working conditions. I didn't say that other jobs are not important, every job is important! I just said that some of the comments are offensive and they look like the person who wrote them is "jealous" because someone earns a good salary for a hard work and they write comments without any true knowledge. I guess the media is to blame a little bit too because a lot of articles are blown out of proportion.

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    6. silver-spoon fed Adria pilot...yeah right. Work starts at off-block and on-block time. What preceeds and follows is not payed. I'm not talking about coming to job! For sure, there were some silver-spoon fed Adria wiseman pilots, who contributed to the fiasco (by meddling with company sans any responsibility), who, btw, left the company they helped ruining some time ago. Please note, that Lufthansa pilots went into dispute and then in industrial action among others for 2% pay rise! Ryaniar pilots outsmarted the company (which is typical regulations, both fiscal and labour dodging company) and vast majority of pilots (which btw, were employed in different countries) and jointly brought down O'Leary's arrongance.
      Unions are both legal and necessary, as the state is not providing any protection against misuse by employers (and is often looking away at even most disgusting cases of breaching labour laws).
      Regarding LCCs - they indeed have enabled more people to "enjoy" air travelling. But at what cost? Both environmental, sociological and economical. They thrive at expense of others. And what is the outlook? Just look at US - 3 major mastodont airlines and few large LCCs and almost no competition on majority of the sectors. Some would call that "old socialist mentality".

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    7. "Work starts at off-block and on-block time. What preceeds and follows is not payed."

      Adria pilots do not receive basic salary? Only paid for block time? I doubt that.

      "I guess the media is to blame a little bit too because a lot of articles are blown out of proportion."

      It's always the media's fault. Media is cancelling the flights, media is not paying pilot's salaries or social contributions on time etc.

      Delete
    8. Please stop with this drama. Everyone is free to become pilot or flight attendant. If you have a problem with the working conditions change job !

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    9. what drama? Everyone is free to become a crew member? Maybe in the institution you are locked in....In normal world it is pretty hard to become a pilot. Such mentality as anon at 11:51 is expressing is just what white collar "businessmen" would like us to be. Changing career over working conditions. What are you? Some kind of slave owner?

      Delete
    10. @Anonymous 23 August 2019 at 08:09:

      I took Economics 101 and 102 and the first thing they said was, the company should be contributing to the greater good of the society. So I pretty sure squeezing every penny out of your employees doesn't fall under that category. I guess you are one of the new age managers who's in it just for the profit. Manager's salaries always fascinate me. Huge amount of money for no work. Go figure. You're more than welcome to come to the flight deck and spend 5 days living the pilot's dream. I'm pretty sure you won't last more than a day.

      @23 August 2019 at 11:22

      No, no, of course there is a basic salary. A whopping 1200 euros. Since you have no idea about pilot's salaries, a quick overview. All pilots get productivity pay. Short flights, lower salary (of course, it's not up to me which flights I'll do). Stay at work for 12 hours, fly only 4 - you guessed it, you're only paid for the 4 flying hours. It's not like in the office, is it?! Scratch your bottom for 7 hours, do some work the last one and get paid for an 8 hour shift. Nice.

      So, just a quick recap. Slovenes are smartasses who think they know best. You are just embarrassing yourselves by showing you have no clue.

      Delete
    11. c'mon pilots don't actually work. they just push 3 buttons and jerk the autopilot :P that's not really work :D

      Delete

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