Air Serbia and Turkish Airlines, which recently signed a Memorandum of Understanding to further expand their cooperation, have said they are exploring the possibility of establishing a Joint Venture. A Joint Venture is an agreement between airlines to share revenues on a route. It also involves coordinating route planning and scheduling. These are typically large undertakings, that involve significant negotiations. They also often require government approval due to the potential removal of competition. The two said the Joint Venture “will enable the two companies to offer more competitive and more affordable flights between Turkey and Serbia, improve the quality of service currently offered, as well as expand their offer and benefits for all passengers”.
As reported yesterday, Air Serbia is adding an additional three weekly flights between Belgrade and Istanbul for a total of ten weekly from next month, while Turkish Airlines will up capacity by scheduling widebody aircraft on two of its 21 weekly flights between the two cities. Within the scope of the agreed Memorandum of Understanding, both parties will negotiate increasing existing cooperation in terms of codeshare, cargo and Frequent Flyer Program (FFP) while developing cooperation alternatives on passenger lounges in their networks. Apart from lounges in Istanbul and other airports in Turkey, Turkish Airlines also operates its own dedicated lounges in Moscow, New York (opening soon in the same terminal used by Air Serbia), Bangkok, Washington, Miami and Nairobi. Turkish Airlines already utilises Air Serbia’s dedicated Premium Lounge at Belgrade Airport.
Commenting on the growing cooperation and their potential Joint Venture, Air Serbia’s CEO, Jiri Marek, said, “We are pleased to further strengthen our good relations and cooperation with Turkish Airlines. It is our great pleasure to announce that Air Serbia and Turkish Airlines will continue to look for new commercial opportunities for creating efficient and mutually beneficial relationships, while considering the option of joining forces to achieve better connectivity and offer for our customers through possible Joint Venture on the services between Serbia and Turkiye. In this way, we are contributing to the further improvement of relations between our two states, in the interest of users and communities in both countries”.
This year has seen Turkish Airlines add a third daily flight to Belgrade, while Air Serbia has introduced a two weekly service from both Niš and Kraljevo to Istanbul. Furthermore, the two airlines have expanded their codeshare partnership on several occasions. As recently reported, Turkish Airlines is also considering the introduction of year-round flights between Antalya and Belgrade. Serbia and Turkey are soon expected to sign a protocol enabling passport-free travel, which has been approved by the parliaments of both countries.
I wrote it a couple of days ago, sell 49% of JU to them
ReplyDeleteGet a few a330s and a320/321 and just go on an insane expansion covering balkan and create a mini balkan hub
Who knows, maybe that second A330 is coming from Turkish Airlines.
Delete"Sell" 49% of what. JU shares are junk, they're worthless.
DeleteHow exacty do you propose to get "a few" A330s and A320/321s?
Share would be sold the same way Jat's shares were sold, through politics.
DeleteThat said, I don't think TK is looking at embarking on that adventure. I think a JV on BEG-IST could be a win win for both as TK would have virtually no restrictions on adding capacity on the market.
Observer: JU shares are junk, they're worthless.
DeleteThat would be up to stock market to decide, but they are not listed on any market.
To me it looks more and more like we are moving towards TK getting a stake in JU.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Etihad?
DeleteThey still have 18%. I assume they would be more than happy to offload it to TK.
DeleteThey just have a share on paper.
DeleteTurkish doesn't have the best track record when it comes to investing in airlines in the region.
DeleteThey don't have the best track when it comes to investing anywhere.
DeleteWho does?
DeleteLeehman Brothers?
DeleteThis is extremely good for JU.
ReplyDeleteHope they don't get rid of Pegasus on the route.
ReplyDeleteThey won't. This is not Slovenia :)
DeleteQuite the opposite. If a JV is formed on routes between Serbia and Turkey then any and all restrictions on Pegasus might be lifted. At least in the West, when a JV was formed between airlines, their competition profited to a certain extent.
DeleteMy guess is that Pegasus will be allowed to increase Belgrade to daily and launch another route.
Flingers crossed
Delete@ 9:06
DeleteI wouldn’t bash SLO so easily. Having so much (record?) traffic going through ex-Yu airports just shows what a vast amount of its population is living abroad. And that is never good.
Because SLO doesn't have much people living abroad that justifies getting rid of airlines? Speaking of SLO, the govt. just handed 1,8 million € to just specific airlines for flying to LJU.
DeleteYeah but BEG-IST is not this big because of diaspora.
Delete09:33 Another excuse Fraport fanboys can use. Good one!
DeleteWell if the Slovenian economy was doing so well then people would be moving in and that would stimulate its own demand, INI-LJU is an example of that.
DeleteSince there aren't many new routes it shows that there is something fundamentally wrong.
Fraport fanboys know, that LJU-IST performs excellent, the planes are full, sometimes also A330.
DeleteI wouldn't be surprised if JU announces Star Alliance membership next with Turkish Airlines as sponsor.
ReplyDeleteGood idea but I am not sure LH will accept it.
DeleteGiven the difficult relationship between TK and LH Group airlines I don't see it happening. Also, I don't think JU would profit much from it as the Star Alliance is quite strong in the region.
DeleteI wouldn't like JU in Star either but I thought it wouldn't be surprising considering how close they are getting to TK. Wasn't aware of TK's poor relations with LH Group (don't they have a joint airline - Sun Express??)
DeleteThey do but I think it would cost both of them too much to terminate it, I am sure this kind of venture is extremely profitable for both.
DeleteHowever, LH was angry that TK completely obliterated them in IST. If I am not mistaken both OS and LX terminated their flights and with it the code-share they had with TK. I don't think TK and LH code-share either.
Interesting, I didn't know that. TK pretty much obliterated anyone from Europe flying to IST :D
DeleteThat's true, I think some carriers with strong local demand managed to survive: Air Serbia, Tarom, LOT, Aegean ...
DeleteThen again, Western European carriers have destroyed their onboard product which made TK's job so much easier.
Not to mention that TK sends widebodies on a lot of western European routes while I saw LH with an A320 in IST.
DeleteIndeed and not only that, TK offers a real business class product as well as two pieces of luggage to economy class passengers.
DeleteI think LH Group was just angry that their rip off strategy didn't work in a market like IST. At this point, Lufthansa has become such a scam of an airline.
Wasn't it changed also on TK flights that they do not offer anymore free luggage for economy?
DeleteYes, you are right, forgot about that. So I guess they hope their onboard product will be enough to keep their competition away from their key markets.
DeleteThey introduced a fare without luggage but the difference between that fare and the one with luggage is really minimal.
DeleteLufthansa has quickly become one of the bottom tier airlines in Europe. Such a shame.
DeleteAlthough LH is offering 2 pieces for anyone has a starting leg from Turkey. Also Sunexpress offers nice connections through rest of the Turkey and it’s always cheaper then connecting with TK through IST.
DeleteIt's amazing how much this Istanbul route developed in just the last year or two.
ReplyDelete+1 and all in the midst of Covid
DeleteIt's precisely because of COVID. When the whole of the EU was closed to virtually anyone outside, Turks could freely visit Belgrade and Serbs could freely visit Istanbul. Now both airlines are reaping the benefits.
DeleteI'm guessing they expect a big increase in traffic once passport free travel starts. I'm also guessing they are getting a lot of Russian feed on this route. Only yesterday I found out that the American embassy in Belgrade is now designated for issuing visas to Russian citizens (non related but interesting).
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting as well but then I saw it is related only to certain type of US visas:
DeleteAll F-type student visas
All M-type student visas
J-type visas for academic exchange visitors
J-type visas for U.S. Government-funded exchange visitors
You still have to appear in person to get these visas.
DeleteExactly, but I found this as well
Delete"This designation does not prevent Russia-based F, M, and J applicants from applying at another post where they are physically present."
So people from Russia need to come to Belgrade for these visas, but for example Russians from Sofia don't. They can apply in Bulgaria.
I just got my F student visa at a US embassy in Belgrade. On Tuesday I had my interview slot, and 80% of applicants around me were Russians, also students.
DeleteInteresting, while war is raging, smart westeners are finding the way to take the best (from any side) to themselves......
DeleteWill this Joint Venture involve creating a new airline? TK is known for these. They have one with Lufthansa and want to create one with Aeroflot.
ReplyDeleteI really don't think it would be necessary to create a new airline for flights between Serbia and Turkey.
DeleteWho knows what they got planned. No one saw all of this coming just a few months ago.
DeleteVery good news coming from JU this week.
ReplyDeleteI would be very happy if we can earn Miles&Smiles through Air Serbia flights :)
ReplyDeleteProbably on Turkey flights.
DeleteMaybe the codeshare routes too. There are a lot of them now.
DeleteThe widebodies sent by Turkish on this route will be the A330 right? I don't think they use B787s on European flights.
ReplyDeleteA330 for sure
DeleteI've seen their B787 in Athens. Don't know if they send it elsewhere. However the flight to Athens is very short so it could be a convenient way of increasing utilization between two long-haul flights.
DeleteFor example this morning's IST-ATH-IST was done by a B77W.
05.20 arrival from JFK
07.40 departure to ATH
12.05 arrival from ATH
14.05 departure to YVR
wow B777 on European routes. No less than ATH. Didn't know it was that popular with Turkish people.
DeleteBoth flights are with the 777 today.
DeleteImpressive. Do a lot of Greeks visit Turkey, or vice versa?
DeleteWell Greeks travel a lot there because of historic ties. There is also a relatively small Greek community that still lives there. However, TK is extremely popular in Greece for transfers. ATH-IST is a short sector so costs are low.
DeleteIn summer 2019, TK had three daily flights (2 widebodies plus A321) and Aegean had up to three daily, mix of A319/320/Q400.
Of course, transfers. Completely slipped my mind, especially with Aegean not flying anything outside a 5 hour radius.
DeleteIndeed, it also helps that A3 has synchronized their schedule with TK. They have really created a business fortress over there. Then again, both airlines are of decent quality so good for them.
Deletedo not forget that it is also practical for airlines to sometime utilize wide body due to crew (live) training and bulky cargo as well...
DeleteDoes TK wet leases planes out? :D In that case they could be operating for JU considering how much they like this type of leasing.
ReplyDeleteThey don't
DeleteOh, funny guy! We're so lucky having you here!
DeleteErdogan coming to BEG in a few weeks. Let's see what happens.
ReplyDeleteWhat does that have to do with anything?
DeleteA lot. Clusters of important political and economic agreements are signed off officially during state visits because of the convenience and PR effect.
DeleteI believe during his visit they will officially announce the start of passport free travel. So it will impact JU/TK.
DeleteTurkey desperately needs money. They want as many tourists as they can get. They don't care about passports.
DeleteThere is already visa-free travel between both countries so it is not about desperately needing money and even so Serbia is not the best country for that. 2 countries trying to get benefit while having connections with the both side of the war. Although I remember after removing passport requirement Ukraine flights started from 4-5 different cities. Turkish low costs Pegasus and SunExpress might focus on alternative routes as well. ADB,BJV,DLM and of course AYT will be good option for summer flights.
DeleteLong-term this would be a very positive development for JU.
ReplyDelete1. TK even though a massive carrier isn't out to destroy and fully integrate its partners (similar to what LH does).
2. Every small airline needs a larger one to support its growth. TK can play a vital role for JU as it would provide it with over 300 destinations throughout the world. Heck, if Egyptair can do it then why can't JU?
3. Massive O&D demand that just keeps on growing. It's important for TK not to go crazy on the market like they did in Vienna, Munich or Frankfurt. With government restrictions their expansion is limited so that JU can profit from it as well.
If this partnership does take off, then I can expect JU to profit massively but only if they play their cards right. Unfortunately their alliances department has not shown promising signs and this might cripple the whole project. Furthermore, JU needs to react to market trends and they should not be handicapping the market by not growing as fast as demand is. It's nice that they are boosting IST to 10 weekly but these new flights are generally useless for locals. Who in his right mind wants to arrive at IST at 03.20 when you have so many other, better options? Air Serbia must have added at least some morning or afternoon flights. For example at 06.40 departure on Mondays could be very popular with local businessmen. TK offers the earliest arrival to IST at 12.40. By the time you leave the airport and reach the city you have wasted a whole business day.
BEG-IST is about an hour, so similar flying time as BEG-VIE. Air Serbia should also work on offering the possibility of arriving and leaving on the same day.
Looking at the fares for next month, there is definitely room for growth.
Does TK have JV with any other company at this moment?
DeleteYes they have with Lufthansa, in the form of Sun Express Airlines.
Delete+1 Nemjee
DeleteNemjee, you're talking BS.
DeleteWhy would someone want to get up at 03AM to reach the airport at 04:30 in order to catch a 06:40 flight, instead of being in his bed in Istanbul by 04AM (when there are virtually no traffic jams) and get up for a meeting at say 10 or 11AM?
That's total nonsense.
Not all passengers have YOUR preferences.
Either way this service was hallmarked for transfers from the start.
Business people can leave a day early or use the TK's evening flight as well.
Air Serbia's 06AM flight would offer zero transit options and overlap with TK's morning one.
You can't cater only for one category of passengers and in a wrong way.
Well, there is a reason why airlines are not rushing to add night flights instead of daytime ones. Vast majority of people apparently don't share your travel preferences and don't want to spend a sleepless night on a short-haul flight.
DeleteBEG-IST is a massive source of O&D passengers and the current number of seats does not match the demand.
Giving priority to transfers, which are a lower yielding category of passengers, over locals makes no sense. JU is basically handing over the more lucrative group of passengers to TK.
Business ties between Serbia and Turkey are booming right now. No businessmen would want to arrive at IST at 03.40, pay an extra night in a hotel, sleep a few hours and then go to a meeting. Businessmen heavy flights all over the world depart in the morning. These guys then go for a meeting straight from the airport and only after they are done they check in into their hotel rooms. Of course, a large number of business traffic returns on the same day.
At the end of the day, JU probably decided to go for such a schedule because they don't have enough planes to add daytime flights. Especially those which would suit business traffic. Unfortunately this is a whole segment that is being neglected by JU as seen by their inadequate and useless corporate program.
By the way, last year trade turnover between Serbia and Turkey reached a record-breaking $2 billion. They expect that in the next few years this number will grow to $5 billion. Air Serbia should be positioning itself as a convenient carrier for this growing market. In reality, when summer comes, JU could easily operate up to 21 weekly flights to IST. Keep the midday and night flights and then the third daily would be either in the morning or the afternoon. Mind you, TK is almost always completely full on their BEG flights. They could easily add another daily departure.
"Well, there is a reason why airlines are not rushing to add night flights instead of daytime ones. "
DeleteAsk Emirates and QR.
You're again talking nonsense.
DeleteThe reason there are so few night-flights in Europe is because of stupid night-time curfews.
Look at IST and you might see a different picture.
Nemjee is right about business travelling on early morning waves in Europe. But he is wrong about massive O&D on BEG-IST. If there were that much O&D there would be no need to talk about jv. Just each airline (TK, JU) would proportionately increase their flights and all flight would be full. The jv is the response to the fact that TK has a disproportionate ability to increase the flights on the BEG-IST route.
DeleteThey need a jv because JU keeps on blocking TK and isn't adding more flights. TK increased BEG to 21 and all flights are full.
DeleteBy disproportionate ability to increase flights I meant that TK, if allowed, could increase number of flights/seats and have them full, while JU ability to do that would be much smaller.
DeleteTK, EK, QR...all have middle of the night flights because of global connectivity. All those airlines have morning departures to all key business markets (shorthaul). Business traffic on short haul flights does not fly at night because of cost optimization, nothing to do with curfews at certain European airports.
DeleteJU should lease an A330 and fly daily to SVO. Good to see the expanding of the regional cooperation
ReplyDeleteThey were using their own A330 to SVO until the company insuring the aircraft threatened them to stop using the A330 to SVO.
DeleteAhhh... so, that's why they stopped utilising A330 to SVO. Interesting.
DeleteAre the new JU flights to Istanbul in the system yet?
ReplyDeleteYes they are
DeleteThey are in the system and on sale on airserbia.com. They still haven't added it on the Turkish Airlines website but they are usually a bit slow with these things.
DeleteI guess they will add them when they add the two weekly wide body flights.
DeleteCould they be gunning for a new airline (JV ofc) in Bosnia???
ReplyDeleteLol no. Why would they? It's a small market with low yields. All airports in both the Federation and Srpska don't handle 2 million passengers.
DeleteDidn't Turkish already try in Bosnia with B&H Airlines?
DeleteYes but that was still with government having ownership.
DeleteCongratulations to JU for being so proactive and actually doing something. When people complain about taxpayer money, at least with JU they can see some results.
ReplyDeleteInteresting developments and these warming ties between Air Serbia and Turkish Airlines. Can someone explain to me what is the relationship between Turkish and Air Albania? Does Turkish own a stake or what?
ReplyDeleteThey own 49% of it.
DeleteIdeally, they could station 3-4 A319 in LJU as well....
ReplyDelete3-4 in LJU and 5-6 in MBX
DeleteWho could station 3-4 A319s?
DeleteWould you be prepared to cover their loses if they were to take such as risk?
And how would either JU or TK operate flights from LJU or MBX to destinations within the EU?
Deleteby establishing a joint venture between SLO and them, 49% stake. There is large, unserved market in Slovenia right now, and probably in near future as well. People are on waiting lists for flights out of LJU!
DeleteMy friend, that will never going to happen. Slovenia is unfortunately destined to be irrelevant long-term.
DeleteSlovenian market is small, especially when you consider neighbouring airports. Add to that the fact that it is very price sensitive market, and with the inflation it will become even more so, and people will have no trouble driving or taking a GoOpti to Treviso, etc. if the flights are cheaper (which they are).
DeleteI don't see how this project would be profitable, and Turkish probably isn't interested in pouring money down the drain.
Open directs to izmir, antalya and adana....
ReplyDeleteThis is what I was looking for! TK will launch AYT flights soon but ADB,DLM,BJV needed for the summer season for sure.
DeleteHello friends, seems like these new night flights will do well. First IST-BEG is already selling at 17.000 Dinars one way while the cheapest fare is 13,000. Goes to show that the market can handle another daily flight between the two cities.
ReplyDeleteThe LH Group has been historically very strong in the Balkans but it looks like that dominance is falling apart as TK is back on full expansion mode across the Balkans and globally, more than ever before. LH & Group became a real scam, with their low-cost onboard product. Moreover, I noticed this recently: if you fly Turkish and add your LH Miles&More card to the TK reservation, you will only get 25% of the miles you are supposed to receive (no matter the booking class): a ridiculous way from LH to `punish` TK? At the end of the day, who the hell wants to fly LH when you have a much, muc, much better choice (TK) within Star Alliance?
ReplyDeleteLufthansa Group also felt the formation of Air Serbia and the arrival of Wizz Air in Belgrade. Both of them destroyed their dominance they had here.
DeleteERRATA CORRIGE: Moreover, I noticed this recently: if you fly Lufthansa and add your TK Miles&Smiles card to the LH / Lufthansa reservation, you will only get 25% of the miles you are supposed to receive (no matter the booking class): a ridiculous way from LH to `punish` TK?
DeleteThat must be a decision by TK not LH. Miles cost carrier that sells the ticket money.
DeleteI think that's the case for ages now (years preCovid for sure). LH group was penalising usage of Miles&Smiles
DeleteWho will be choosing LH over TK. LH is only good because they offering desperate fares for Turkey with SunExpress connection.
DeleteThis deal will make BEG a lot more relevant in the Balkans. There will be a lot more passengers flying trough Belgrade now. Overall very good news. It's time BEG overtakes Sofia.
ReplyDeleteIn what mechanism? TK will soon fly everywhere direct. Do you suggest pax will transfer twice: in IST and in BEG?
DeleteThere will be some spillover effect and BEG will profit from that. TK is not cheap for O&D so someone from Milan might not want to fly non stop for €400 with TK so they might go via BEG for €300.
Deleteslay
ReplyDeleteThis being the Balkans, nothing would surprise me. That said, in any other "normal" market, where the 2 dominant carriers were looking to form a JV in which together, they hold more than 90% of the market share, this would be 'dead on arrival' as there is no way that competition authorities would ever allow or approve such a JV. If it happens, it will only confirm that politics will put aside the normal/usual "lessoning of competition" and "public interest" tests that would prevent this from ever happening. I will watch this with great interest
ReplyDeleteThere are no 'competitive authorities' involved whatsoever between Turkey and Serbia.
DeleteWell the EU allowed LH to buy OS and LX. What kind of serious competition is there on flights between MUC and ZRH/VIE or between FRA and ZRH/VIE?
DeleteAnon@ 5.57 - you should do some simple fact checking before you make such uninformed comments.
DeleteIn Serbia, you have the Commission for the Protection of Competition - http://www.kzk.org.rs/en, while in Turkey, you have the Turkish Competition Authority - Rekabet Kurumu - https://www.rekabet.gov.tr/en
At the EU level, you have D-G Comp, whose role is to enforce competition law. Serbia, as an EU candidate, must comply with this. Air Serbia went through a very painful process back in 2013/2014 at the time of the Etihad investment and had to change many of the agreements in order to comply with D-G Comp rulings. This will not be an easy process.
And Nemjee - you of all people should know that the EU allowed LH to invest in OS and LX, because those markets - especially Austria and to a lesser extent Switzerland - are already within the EU and considered 1 market, open to any other EU carrier to fly and compete. Turkey and Serbia are 'closed' and do not allow any EU carrier to base themselves in either country and to then fly 3rd/4th Freedom routes between them. Only a serbian or turkish carrier can do so - and that is the fundamental difference. They will need to offer up considerable concessions if this is to get across the line. For example, granting Pegasus more market access or allowing an EU carrier to fly the 3/4 Freedom routes would be the only way to mitigate this lessening of competition.
EU had 19 years to allow Serbia into membership but it didn't. Greece was accepted in 1981 without any significant requirements and Romania/Bulgaria were fast tracked more than 15 years ago. It is trivial to make Serbia 100% compliant with all EU rules and route authorities you wish for - just accept Serbia into EU by the end of this year. There, ball is in your court now.
DeleteIt would be great. Fingers crossed...
ReplyDeleteIt would be great only for TK, while it would be disastrous for JU.
DeleteSuccessful JV's work best when 2, more or less equals come together and bring different strengths to the table so that you end up with a "1 + 1 = 3" outcome. What does JU bring to TK ?? TK flies to more destinations in ex-yu than does JU - so there is absolutely nothing that JU can bring to TK. Infact, by opening itself up to TK, it risks losing what it has fought for so hard and for so long - which are the lucrative charter flights - which is exactly what TK are trying to get access to. JU will lose more frm this relationship than what it will gain. The Turks are nobody's friends and are about "all take and no give".
Off topic: What happened with additional ATR 72 600 in June?
ReplyDelete