Austrian Airlines has held talks with the Slovenian Ministry for Economy, Tourism and Sports, where the two sides discussed Slovenia’s air connectivity. It is the latest in a string of high-profile meetings between the government and foreign carriers and the first time the Austrian airline has met with state officials. Ljubljana Airport recently noted that it is also in talks with Austrian Airlines in order to regain flights to Vienna, which were discontinued upon the demise of Adria Airways in 2019. “The obstacle is the capacity available at Austrian Airlines, as it currently does not have a suitable smaller aircraft that would make it worthwhile to fly to Ljubljana. We are in constant contact with them regarding the establishment of flights to Vienna and, of course, we are working towards this, and we hope that it will be back in our network as soon as possible”, the General Manager of the airport’s operator Fraport Slovenija, Babett Stapel, said last week.
The Lufthansa Group was quick to respond to the collapse of Adria Airways in 2019 by covering key routes served by the former Slovenian flag carrier and ensuring the continued flow of transfer passengers through its hubs. Lufthansa commenced operations from Munich and Frankfurt, Brussels Airlines from the Belgian capital and Swiss from Zurich. However, Austrian Airlines has notably skipped the opportunity to introduce services between Vienna and Ljubljana, despite passenger figures indicating there is solid demand. Services to the Austrian capital were one of Adria’s better performing routes, with double daily flights maintained over the summer months and an average of around 60.000 passengers per year.
Ljubljana - Vienna route passenger performance
Adria Airways relied on transfer passengers between the two, both those headed or originating from regional markets such as Kosovo, Albania, Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina, as well as those originating or heading to Ljubljana from other destinations in Europe and North America. However, a sizable number of travellers were still point-to-point. Notably an additional 10.925 people flew indirectly between the two capital cities in 2019, although this was mostly generated in the third and fourth quarters when Adria was cancelling a number of flights before ultimately declaring bankruptcy. Austrian Airlines had previously operated its own flights to Ljubljana, discontinuing its daily service on the fifty-seat Dah 8-300 turboprop at the end of the 2005 summer season. Adria Airways then increased its operations to the Austrian capital, maintaining four daily rotations until the 2009 global financial crisis. In its final summer season of 2019, Adria Airways served Vienna twice per day.
Can't they just use the Embraer 3x per week? I'm sure they could fill it up.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is that the flight time is 30min,so E jet can't even reach the cruising attitude making it extremely inefficient
DeleteI don't think flight time would make much of an issue. Adria flew the route with jet-engine planes.
DeleteAnd it was the biggest loss making route out of it all according to the financial reports
DeleteAustrian flies to Klagenfurt and Budapest with the Embraer.
DeleteThey fly to Graz with E195, and it is even less than 30 min (average flight time is about 23 min). Not saying that the plane is (fuel) efficient on that route, merely noting that with the right amount of support shorter routes can pay off as well.
DeleteEmbraer is much cheaper to operate than Dash
DeleteSometimes you read deeply insightful comments on this blog, and sometimes you read that an ERJ is cheaper to operate than a Dash.
Deletehahahah true
DeleteE175 would be good, I believe. I guess Austrian has zero?
DeleteThe smallest plane in their fleet is the E195 with 120 seats.
DeleteNobody has analyzed impact on Klagenfurt- Vienna market once Adria wasn't on the market. That aside, 60k pax is more then enough for mix of a319 and e195. LJU-VIE and VIE-KLU are perfect routes for future "green" battery or hydrogen powered aircraft. Only problems are: hydrogen infrastructure, battery cycle life and certification of everything.
DeleteMy strong belive is that Skyalps should do Rome-Ljubljana-Vienna-Ljubljana-Prague-Ljubljana-Rome rotation once daily. They have 12 Dash8s now, 6 of them not utilised during the winter and the demand is clearly there.
ReplyDeleteThey would need two groups of crew for these flights. Six rotations are too much .
DeleteThat way they would cover some much needed destinations from LJU. Have they ever shown interest in flying to Slovenia?
DeleteYes last year they scheduled flights to Maribor from Bolzano, Pisa and Naples I believe but then cancelled them due to the low ticket sales
Deletethe sales was offline... and it was put on sale quite short time before starting of flying.
DeleteCrazy there are STILL no flights between Ljubljana and Vienna.
ReplyDeleteAt least they are working on it and it looks like there might be some results from it sooner or later.
DeleteHope so. It's long overdue and it would probably be one of the busier routes.
DeleteAnd a complete loss maker
DeleteI can't believe there is STILL no fast rail link between Ljubljana and Vienna.
DeleteLet's hope they applied for the subsidies.
ReplyDeleteAustrian has the mindset that people from Slovenia will drive to Klagenfurt to catch an Austrian flight which is stupid.
ReplyDeleteBut many of us do exactly that..
DeleteReally? Someone from Ljubljana uses Klagenfurt to fly to Vienna?
DeleteDuring summer I found myself booking a flight to Stockholm from Klagenfurt via Vienna, because price was 180€ or so EUR and price from LJU was 550€ or somewhere there.
DeleteI'm not from Slovenia. How long foes it take from LJU to Klagenfurt?
DeleteGood 1h. Depends also on local rush hour both in Klagenfurt and Ljubljana. Mid day without any rush hour I'm there in a bit more than 1h.
DeleteOh now I see why Klagenfurt is an alternative. I didn't realize it was so close. Thank you.
DeleteLike someone said, at least they are talking with the government and Fraport so that is some progress.
ReplyDeleteReally hope they will start flights to Ljubljana but not holding my breath.
ReplyDeleteFrom 60,000+ passengers per year to 0
ReplyDeleteThey'll start the flights once the railway to Klagenfurt is finished, and after that the flights to KLU will be canceled according to some. Is there any green policy that makes it impossible to have flights if high speed railway is available to the destination?
ReplyDeleteDo you know when the rail will be completed? Yes a policy like that was introduced, within a certain radius.
Delete2025 methinks. Not 100% sure!
DeleteTwo railway lines must be finished, after which flights VIE-KLU and VIE-GRZ have to stop (condition of Covid related help to AUA). Current plan for final Railway part to open (Semmering) is 2030. Of course things can change until then.
DeleteThat's still some time away.
DeleteSomething is cooking here. I think they will start LJU sooner or later.
ReplyDeleteI think so too.
DeleteTheir Dash 8s would have been perfect for this route.
ReplyDeleteHow many seats do their Embraers have?
Delete120
DeleteSo Ljubljana summer schedule seems to be getting (rumors and announcements):
ReplyDelete-Air Baltic: RIGA
-Coredon Europe: HERAKLION
-Coredon Turkye: ANTALYA
-Norwegian: COPENHAGEN
-SAS: STOCKHOLM
-ITA: ROME
-Austrian: VIENNA
Actually not bad
SAS and ITA would be nice. Will it really happen?
DeleteI didn't believe it but yesterday they announced the CPH route with graphic where Stockholm and Rome were marked too - now it could be A HUGE coincidence, or actual spin where they'll announce the 2 routes later on (link: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=737820375055789&set=a.483206250517204)
DeleteAh true, that's a good hint. Fingers crossed.
DeleteSome of you should be investigators haha! What a good catch
DeleteIts actually a nice catch haha but probably coincidence i would say?
Deletewhat about BCN/MAD/LIS?
DeleteIf Adria flew twice a day with CRJs then there should be at least several weekly flights between LJU and VIE.
ReplyDeleteI believe that avg. 5 weekly flights could work
Delete60K pax per year is so low. If they operated twice a day with CRJ900 then the LF had been 50%. If these numbers are for both ways.
DeleteThey flew with a CJ700
DeleteIf they still had their Dashes in their fleet, then it would be the ideal plane. Thing is they got rid of them. They used to have 76 seats and now their Embraers have 120, which is maybe too much. I think Lufthansa "fears" that Austrian might cannibalise its existing their MUC, FRA and "daughter routes" BRU and ZRH. In BEG or SOF for instance, you may literally have up to 10 daily flights if you combine FRA, MUC, ZRH which is not a small number. No wonder why the European Commission is "concerned" about LH buying ITA Airways because they want to have even a higher monopoly in Europe given that FCO is a huge airport.
ReplyDeleteWould be interesting to see how the talks would end. Maybe LH would first revise the current schedule in LJU and adapt it to their "needs". Doubt the traffic would be O&D given the short distance from LJU to VIE and OS are known to be notoriously expensive when they want to unless they are not threatened on VIE by a LCC such as FR or W6.
The good thing is that LJU is finally waking up and doing well and 2024 seems promising.
LJU-VIE only worked because JP flew transfers on the route at a loss.
ReplyDeleteAustrian has a good Eastern European network and could bring benefits for LJU passengers in comparison to other Lufthansa group airlines.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteAnd just 30 minute minimum connecting time in Vienna
DeleteVIE is nice, clean, comfortable and easy to transfer. Much better than FRA
DeleteAgree. VIE is much more practical for transfers
DeleteAustrian is becoming smaller and smaller. Unfortunate impact of being a Lufthansa stepchild.
DeleteVIE>MUC>FRA if you ask me
DeleteIs it now 30 mins min connecting time? It always used to be 25 in VIE for I think all European connections
DeleteIt is still 25 minutes.
DeleteGuys, I don't understand why passengers should be happy because of the fact that an airport has only 25 min of connecting time instead of for example 1 hour. I understand that you can get a faster connecting flight, but it doesn't help you so much if you miss the flight for 5 minutes and that it was the last flight of the day😐
DeleteWould love to see them back in Ljubljana!
ReplyDeleteI don't see them starting flights. Wouldn't they diminish the viability of Klagenfurt by introducing flights to Ljubljana?
ReplyDeleteWith the support given by the government plus the incentives from Fraport they really could give it a try. I doubt those sort of conditions will be available in a few years.
ReplyDeleteHope the subsidies will convince them to start flights.
Delete+1
DeleteI'm guessing there are not enough P2P passengers on this route.
ReplyDeleteAustrian is a big transfer airline
DeleteThey are covered by MUC and FRA
DeleteIn 2018/19 only 18% pax on this route were P2P.
DeleteWere these transfers from Balkans to Vienna, or from Ljubljana headed onto Austrian flights?
DeleteBoth
DeleteBravo Fraport!
ReplyDeleteI would say bravo if they reduced their fees
DeleteAccording to Fraport, fees are not the issue but the market.
DeleteVienna is also on the list of subsidized routes by the government.
ReplyDeleteI think the government put VIE on the list just to attract Austrian.
DeleteHave a feeling Austrian is coming back to LJU in 2024.
ReplyDeleteFingers crossed
DeleteFast train would be more helpful
ReplyDeleteI'm noticing the Slovenian government has been much more proactive with airlines. This is a good sign.
ReplyDeleteI think it has more to do with Fraport efforts than the governments.
DeleteJust the opposite, FRAPORT is more active because of government efforts.
DeleteIn any case, things are finally moving in the right direction.
DeleteWe will find out soon if they applied for the subsidies. I think the tender closes this weekend.
ReplyDeleteOn the 27th
DeleteDo you know when they release the results of the tender?
DeleteNot exactly but it will be known shortly after who had applied. Probably in the furst days of December
DeleteSome good news lately for Ljubljana… also I’ve noticed flydubai will fly double daily to ljubljana on some weeks in February…
ReplyDeleteAnd Aegean updated ATH-LJU to year-round from next year too according to their website!!
DeleteCan you send the link?
DeleteThats true website says flights resume April 2024 until April 2025.
DeleteThats great news
DeleteAm I reading this wrong or did ADRIA AIRWAYS held talks with Ministry a few weeks ago? (https://erar.si/lobiranje/)
ReplyDeleteIt's not Adria the former airline of 🇸🇮, but it's just a group called Adria
DeleteSome people here still don't understand that number of pax on route doesn't mean that the route is profitable.
ReplyDeleteLJU-VIE is a short line that it's almost served faster with car than plane. It's not a P2P route, it's almost solely used as a connecting flight. This was one of Adria's biggest loss making routes, so I really don't understand why Austrian, a company that it's looking to make profit, would jump on this route just because 60.000 souls flew with Adria once.
Some of you here should really start thinking reasonable and beyond "plane spotting" mentality. Wake up and smell the roses...
Interesting how only LJU has distance problem but ZAG, GRZ, KLU, BUD, KSC... don't. Excuses and excuses :)
DeleteYou can fly with LH via FRA, MUC to most destinations.
ReplyDeleteIf you are flying via VIE no additional destinations added with AUA: except Erbil (Turkish via Istanbul is better anyway), Chisinau (but can be LOT via Warsaw too), Iasi and Kosice.
Yes but it would cover different time slots which is also important. You could fly from Ljubljana via frankfurt and return via vienna.
DeleteWith the green politics dominating in Austria, I doubt we will see them start Ljubljana,
ReplyDeleteAustrian used to have an excellent feeder fleet and was able to fly to places like Ljubljana but also Mostar and Banja Luka because of it. They used to be dominant in the region but not anymore.
ReplyDeleteIIRC it was Tyrolean Airways (not Austrian Airlines) that served Mostar about 27(?) years ago. At that time Tyrolean was still independent, but I guess they had a code-share with OS on the VIE-OMO route?
DeleteWhy is it so important for Fraport to have a flight to Vienna?
ReplyDeleteAustrian used to serve LJU on daily basis years ago, when austrian (by that I mean the state, not airliner) was midst blitzkrieg on Balkans. Remember those times? They were investing heavily in our area (banks, shops, insurance companies). They were establishing a stronghold here. Forcing Austrian to serve cities in our region was just part of the strategy. I used to fly quite a lot to PRG via VIE at that times. Then Adria started to serve VIE with increased frequencies also for political reasons and it forced Austrian out, as they were in deep trouble by that time. When LH took them over, they abruptly discontinued many routes, LJU amongs first. If they will eventually serve LJU again, it will be just to utilize Dash 8 which is already on its way out.
ReplyDeleteThe last Dash-8 left the fleet in Mar 2021. If they will establish route to LJU, it will be a feeder route to their Vienna hub and nothing else. They are looking for some money from the government though.
Delete