Monday, October 20, 2014

National Airlines eyes US - Dubrovnik flights

Potential New York - Dubrovnik flights on the horizon

US charter carrier National Airlines has expressed interest to launch flights from New York to Dubrovnik next summer season. The news comes following the recent World Route Development Forum in Chicago which brought together a wide range of airlines, airports and tourism and civil aviation authorities who wished to meet, plan and conduct business for new global routes. Frano Luetić, Dubrovnik Airport’s Commercial Manager and Deputy Director General, confirmed that National Airlines is interested in launching nonstop charter flights between the States and Dubrovnik in 2016. The airline has two Boeing 757-200s in its fleet, which have the capacity to seat 239 passengers.

US tourists now rank fifth by visits to Dubrovnik and future flights from the United States could prove popular. Only recently, American Airlines began codesharing on Iberia flights from Madrid to Dubrovnik over the summer while US Airways added its codes on British Airways flights from London. During the 1980s, Pan Am operated summer services from the States to the seaside city. Mr. Luetić says it is now up to National Airlines to decide whether it will inaugurate transatlantic flights to Dubrovnik, adding that future operations will depend on a range of circumstances, primarily in the tourism sector. Dubrovnik Airport is no stranger to long haul charter flights. Japan Airlines has been operating summer charters to the city for several years. In 2013, a Chinese carrier expressed interest to fly to Dubrovnik but in the end these flights did not materialise.

Pan Am in Dubrovnik, 1980s

The recent World Route Development Forum proved successful for Dubrovnik Airport with strong interest shown by airlines. Edelweiss, Brussels Airlines, airBaltic and SunExpress have all confirmed flights to the seaside city next summer. Edelweiss and Brussels Airlines will operate two weekly flights from Zurich and Brussels respectively. airBaltic will run two weekly services from Riga to Dubrovnik, while SunExpress will maintain one weekly flight from Leipzig. As EX-YU Aviation News learns, Aegean Airlines will launch seasonal flights from Athens to Dubrovnik from June 18. Currently, Croatia Airlines maintains the route three times per week during the summer months.

94 comments:

  1. And then they will realize that they can't reach Dubrovnik from the US with a fully loaded B757-200 which will make them understand that this will not make any commercial sense. Better luck next time.

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    1. More Jatovanje, Croatian style ...

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    2. It can make the trip fully loaded. They have winglets on their 757s whose range is 7,600. JFK - DBV is way under

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    3. What is "Jatovanje"?

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    4. Some nationalist Serbs here are beyond sick, any news out of evil Croatia is to be regarded as travesty and with utter hate. Grow up you stupid nationalist haters, if an Airline announced their plans, that is what they are, plans you stupid morons.

      How they going to implement these plans is up to the airline announcing these plans, and National has 2 B747 400, number of US visors to Croatia is now at around 250 000 per year and growing fast, 300 000 are expected by the years end, I think, in fact I am sure National if they do decide on seasonal flights to Dubrovnik, wouldn't have hard time filling their flights to Dubrovnik, Korean and JAL regularly fly B747s to Zagreb, I am sure National can send few B747s Dubrovnik's way.

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    5. Don't call me a hater for pointing out that National's 747 are CARGO only.

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    6. And the same 'nationalists' who rubbished Air Croatia and Dalmatian Air were wrong were they ?? The only moron is the one who swallows every single announcement that is made. Seeing is believing ... ask the people who purchased tkts on Air Croatia only to be left with nothing. The only real thing out of Croatia is Croatia Airlines. No matter how 'bad' you might think it is - it is still THE only airline that can do something. You should support it and maybe then it might see better days ahead, rather than jump behind b.s. announcements like this one and those that have come before it .... Love your airline - it is still the best bet for civil aviation in Croatia

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    7. @Anonymous at 2:30 PM

      troll will remain troll, no point even responding to you, other than point out, you're a troll,.

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    8. Why stop at 747s ?? Go the whole way .. they should get a fleet of A380s and put out of business LH, BA and all the other network carriers who have announced their intentions to fly to DBV .... No point in doing things in half measures ... oh, and they may as well put out of business all the cruise liners as well ...

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    9. LH and BA already fly to Dubrovnik, what's your problem, Anonymous 6:28 PM?

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    10. Err, the problem is with your friend who would have us believe that this charter airline will put all other airlines out of business ...

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    11. No one said that, don't make things up, Anonymous 7:47 PM!

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  2. They can't do it nonstop with a B757-200WL.

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    1. Ma ovih prodaju maglu ....

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    2. but they own 2 747-400 as wel

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    3. Even if they were forced to send a B744 to Dubrovnik, I doubt that there are enough tourists to fill it and still sell the seats at an ok price. Dubrovnik is covered very well through major European airports. That's what's harming these charter carriers. That's why I believe that DBV has a greater chance of an Asian charter rather than one from North America.

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    4. It can make the trip fully loaded. They have winglets on their 757s whose range is 7,600. JFK - DBV is way under

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    5. Just because the official range of the 757-200WL is 7600, does not mean that the plane can fly such distances normally. We have to factor in extra fuel for winds, warm termp. performance loss, diversions, holds, non-optimal routes, etc. In the real world, 757-200s never get scheduled to fly such distances non-stop.

      JFK-DBV is 7260 km, by the way. This is within the "official" range, but not within the effective range.

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    6. Yes and an Atr can make it to Frankfurt but it doesn't mean it will be commercially viable. The longer the route the more difficult it is to make a profit, especially with a B757.

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    7. Some people are obviously upset beacuse DBV would be the first to have a charter flight to NY after all these years, I don't think it will happen any time soon, but, for Anonymous 9:38 AM, yes, there are more than enough American tourists in both Dubrovnik and Split! If it's not National, someone else will step in!

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    8. Ok, let's wait and see who else will step in. ;)

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    9. In theory they could fly from BOS, that would give them, an adequate safety margin. Of course, nobody mentioned Boston in the first place.

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    10. 220 000 American tourists in Croatia in 2013! Go Dubrovnik!

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    11. the ones who will step in are the same ones who have been flying it all these years ... yeah that's right, no one

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    12. Yes, it's true that DBV has some 220.000 USA tourists. But if we want to be honest, about half, maybe even more of those tourists are passengers from cruising ships. However, remaining approximately 100.000 americans, with further growth tendency, despite the presence of strong global players, still gives a chance for charters. Would it be National, or some other carrier, from the USA, or elswhere, that remains to be seen. But it will definitely happen. And soon.

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  3. OT:
    Time for some predictions! Get out your crystal balls.

    BEG 2014: 4.650.000

    ZAG 2014: 2.420.000

    SJJ 2014: 710.000

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    1. How many passengers did these handle last year?

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    2. BEG 2013: 3.590.231

      ZAG 2013: 2.300.231

      SJJ 2013: 665.638

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    3. BEG handled only 294.350 passengers last October. I expect this year this number to reach at least 350.000, if not more... They have far more aircraft, far more destinations...

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    4. Why was my comment about the Tel Aviv flight deleted?!

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    5. 140 Y 8 C Tel Aviv to BEG, happy?

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  4. Pa nikada National Airlines leteti za DBV sa 752WL ajde da je 763ER pa onda da to je jos jedna velika laz i svi znamo da ce ASL prvi leteti za USA :))
    INN-NS

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    1. Misliš da si jako pametam sa INN-NS potpisom?

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    2. Pa ja se barem potpisem bilo kako mogu i Marko a mogu i Innsbruck -Novi Sad (INN-NS) nebi bilo lose da se svi potpisemo bilo kako da vidimo ko je koliko strucan ;)
      Posto ovde ima mnogu doktora nauka
      INN-NS

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  5. Kojim je Avionom leteo PA kad je toliko isplativo sto su tad kad je narod imao vise para leteli samo jednu sezonu ili koliko vec
    Hvala unapred :))
    INN-NS

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    1. Posto si jos mali pa ne pamtis, to je islo ovako : PAN AM je leteo u Ex-Yu za 3 grada : BEG, ZAG i DBV. Letovi iz Washingtona i New Yorka obavljali su se sa B747 do Frankfurta, a u FRA su putnici prelazili na manje avione, takodje PanAm-ove, B727 i B737 i nastavljali let. Ovo nije bio slucaj samo sa ex-Yu, nego su iz FRA manjim avionima PA leteli i za gradove unutar Nemacke : Stuttgart, Berlin, za druge gradove u sticnoj Evropi : Varsavu, Bukurest, Prag,, kao i za Istanbul i Ankaru. Kasnije su neke od ovih linija prebacivane na non-stop, bez sletanja u FRA, sa manjin sirokotrupcem (DC10, B767, A310) ali u Ex-Yu jedini grad koji je u zadnje 2 godine postojanja PAN AM-a imao non-stop vezu sa SAD je Zagreb sa 5 nedeljnih letova na A310.
      Takodje je ZAG imao 3 nonstop nedeljna leta Air Canade za Toronto sa B767/L1015. A JAT je jos onda imao iz Dubrovnika redovne letove u letnjoj sezoni za NewYork i Chicago sa DC-10. A danas pitnika ima jos vise, tako da mislim da nisi u pravu kada tvrdis da ce JU biti prvi sa letovima za SAD, ali zivi bili pa videli !

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    2. Inace PA je leteo za ex-YU preko DVADESET GODINA, a ne jednu sezonu, a cak i DBV se leteo kroz celu godinu, ne samo leti. A letovi za ZAg i BEG kada su buli preko FRA su isli SVAKI DAN.

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    3. Pa tako mozemo reci da npr BEG ima skoro direktne letove za ceo svet ili ZAG direktni letovi vaze. A videcete ASL ce leteti za ORD to znam 100% ili grubo receno USA-SAD ;))
      INN-NS

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  6. When will people learn to read? "The airline has two Boeing 757-200s in its fleet", which doesn't necessarily mean they will fly them to DBV. They could expand their fleet with new jets by the time the flights launch...

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    1. Exactly. It is thoroughly the same story with JU which doesn't have long-haul plane, still it plans to go to the USA. So Serbian nationalists should either decide whether both Air Serbia and National cannot fly these routes as they don't have proper equipment, or allow both of them to give it a try. But it's difficult to have same standards and objective views for some people here

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    2. Good Lord. It has nothing to do with nationalism but it has to do with common sense. These charters to Dubrovnik will NOT happen. Air Serbia, an airline backed by Etihad and which is building a true hub in Belgrade, has far more chances to launch flights across the pond than this random, two aircraft carrier has.

      Get over yourself.

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    3. My common sense tells me that JU has long long way to go to profitability, as I expect verdict by EC that airport services in "true hub BEG" as well as fuel for JU cannot be for free or largely discounted. Some other forms of state aid to JU too. In addition to that, Serbia is very politically unstable state, and money generally runs away form such countries. EY might look like an exception, on the other hand I wouldn't be so sure about their "backing", I think it's more about their interest, which is probably to be changed with the next elections. After that, Serbia needs to get approval from the USA for JU flights, all flights to Croatia are just to be started, under USA-EU Open Skies Agreement. So, Good Lord, it has everything to do either with nationalism, or lack of ability to have objective vision of the World around you

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    4. btw National is considering, B777, you have info about that on ch-aviation

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    5. Thank God Croatia is right next door so Hogan can move his hub into Zagreb once Air Serbia and BEG fail.
      Then again, I am sure some world famous airline will be interested in Croatia Airlines. ;)

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    6. Wait.
      1. Serbia already has an permission for flights to USA, they've got a category 1 from FAA in June this year, remember?
      2. I am sure that Hogan wouldn't buy 49% of ASL just to "make an experiment" and to buy an other carrier once "Air Serbia fail". Maybe it really is like that, but ASL really has an big potential to become the best company in the Balkan (without THY). I am sure that they will implement their plans to fly to destinations like ORD ,YYZ and JFK, because there are a lot of Serbs there that would fly to Serbia.
      3. Just because Croatia is in EU, doesn't means that OU is the best option for all carriers such as Etihad is. They obviously saw JU as a better option then OU, as they chose JU.
      And if this is just one of the comments that have intention to provoke someone, then I really don't know why am I wasting time on this.

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    7. Yeah right - that giant of world aviation called Garuda .... And even they walked away from going forward in purchasing a tender document .... Jatovanje, Croatian style !!

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  7. Most likely a tourist agency driven initiative to hire a charter plane for summer flights, similar to failed venture about a decade ago when (now defunct) Sunwing 757-200 was chartered to fly from Toronto to Zagreb and Belgrade with fuel stop in Ireland. Unlike mostly basement bargain VFR traffic on Sunwing flights, charters to Dubrovnik are more likely to be US tourists as part of a packaged tour offer. In a sense this would be more like JAL or Korean tourist charters to Zagreb than regular transatlantic route Air Serbia plans to offer at Belgrade from the same 2016 summer season, and the level of service in a barebone National Airlines 757 is incomparable to a typical widebody on a transatlantic route.

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    1. Those Sunwing flights failed miserably. I know some people that bought the tickets months ahead and showed up at the airport only to be told that there is no flight 2-3 hours before the departure with just a refund offered. Talk about ruining ones vacation !!!

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    2. And what abot Skyservice Canada which successfully operated flights from Toronto ta Zagreb for 5 years and would have continued operating it if it didn't declare bankruptcy? As far as I rememeber, they flew to Belgrade too, for some shorter period of time. I guess when it's about those Belgrade flights, on B757, With fuel-stop in Dublin, theye were not pathetic or miserable?

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    3. Skyservice (not Sunwing) was that service to ZAG and BEG described above. Those flights were miserable for passengers, as they could not get outside to terminal during refueling, so they had to endure 11+ hours inside dense, single aisle 757-200 with no AVOD. I can't imagine that being a fun trip with small kids in tow.

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    4. refuelling with passengers onboard is procedure very rarely performed, except for LCC's, which Skyservice wasn't. So, it might have happened, but was definitely not routine. Second, not all of the people travel with children, it's quite opposite. Toronto-Zagreb is 6+1+2=9 hours, not 11+, and havibg stopover somewhere and flying narrow-bodied (shorter boarding and disembarkation time, smoother IFS, friendlier environment, are for some people advantage, not opposite. Last by not meany least, you switched your story of flights which "failed miserably", only after my reaction. Enough for me, I don+t know about other people here. Cheers!

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    5. Both flights to Belgrade and Zagreb performed ok. It was not them who were the problem, it was the airline. It had a disastrous managed which led the airline to its eventual bankruptcy.

      Still, flying this long on a B752 with no IFE is a nightmare!

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    6. Agree fully. My worst ever flight was Munich-Capetown on A330 with like 350 passengers onboard and pitch enough for chicken only. It might but doesn't necesarilly have to be one- ot two- aisle - there are so many other factors :)

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    7. You are missing a point here, it's not only about the comfort. Let's say National Airlines (or any other N registered charter carrier) starts nonstop NYC-DBV flights in 2016 using modern, fully IFE equipped wide body (like 787, 777, A330, A350 etc). It will still be a seasonal charter flight primarily (if not exclusively) based on US tourists on a packaged vacation. From that point of view, those charters, very much like Korean or Japan flights to Zagreb, will not make much (if any) impact to Air Serbia plans to launch regular, scheduled year round transatlantic flights. Now if AA, UA or DL starts year round, scheduled nonstop service to DBV with great transfers to the rest of the region, now that would be a game changer in a region. But it's not likely to happen. See the difference?

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    8. I don't need you to explain me the difference between seasonal or year-round services, or between charters and scheduled flights, as I've been working in civil aviation for more than 20 years. And I would accept every single word you wrote the day Air Serbia starts transatlantic flights. And due to the reasons of political instability, limited purchase power, week tourism, lack of institutional ties with the EU and correspondingly applied agreements, and so on and so on, I highly doubt that such JU transatlantic flights will start, and especially not in a year time. And today's topic is not Air Serbia's (eventual and potential) long-haul, but possible North American charters to DBV. And precisely as there is HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two, as you say yourself, I don't know what's your point, except if you wish to show us all here how superior Serbia (both country and the airline) is, to all of the others in ex-Yu.

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    9. Pa ja sam sad razmisljao 4 sata sto ne lete sve tri DL-AA-UA za DBV kad ima 3-4 mil turista iz SAD .Pa pricu o tim letovima moze samo ogranicen covek da poveruje prvo LH nebi nikada to dozvolila kao npr u SZG i INN posto AA je nameravao prosle god 4-6 chartera nije im odobreno mozd ce ove da dobiju odobrenje.
      A te letove za DBV treba obavljati sa 772ER koji ima samo ekonomsku klasu ili sa 744 mada bi bilo jos bolje sa 380 posto ima tolika potraznja ;))
      Moram da pitam tatinog druga kolika je potraznja za te letove JFK-VIE-DBV posto je za BEG jako velik ;))
      INN-NOVI SAD MARKO

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    10. INN, za BEG mogu pitati samo pripadnici dijaspore, pitaj Amerikance koliko ih je čulo za Beograd, a koliko za Dubrovnik ;))

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    11. Ko se zadnji smeje najsladje se smeje :)

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    12. Pa ja se vama smejem sto verujete u te letove posto od toga nece nista biti ko ni sa AIR CROATIA I onaj Dalmatian ili kako se vec zvao.
      Molim Admina da objavi sutra da ja otvaram Aviokompaniju HUb mi je BEG.
      FLOTA je
      70 A320 NEO
      45 A321 NEO
      16 A350-900 XWB
      14 789
      22 787-10
      23 A 350-1000XWB
      6 748
      9 777-200LR oni ce leteti za AKL
      25 B777-300ER
      60 777X
      40 A380-800
      To ce Stric i gospodin Dodik i Vucic da mi finansiraju. To ako nebude vest sutra onda cu se razocarati
      INN-NS

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    13. INN, nemaš argumenata, pitao sam te nešto pa te molim odgovor, što se tiče smijanja, pođi u Srbiju i vidi kako ljudi žive i kako se smiju plaćama od 200 eura, ne lupetaj gluposti!

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    14. "And I would accept every single word you wrote the day Air Serbia starts transatlantic flights"

      Great, so we just have to wait a year or two and we'll be in agreement!

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    15. Look: ONLY potential that Croatia has to start flights to USA are summer flights. Air Serbia could make a success with flights to USA, and this is why:
      "pitaj Amerikance koliko ih je čulo za Beograd, a koliko za Dubrovnik ;))"-- Well I don't know maybe some 118 000 that are following this blog almost every day? Also maybe Americans don't know about Riga and still there are flights from there to JFK. Don't mention that there are a lot of Serbs in Chicago and Toronto only. I am completely sure that flights to ORD and YYZ would be full with 3-4 flights per week to both cities. So that's answer on your stupid comment. ASL also could include some flights to China (Beijing, Shanghai) about 2 or 3 flights per week to both cities, that flights also could be full.
      So that's all that I was going to say, I hope now you people who are trolling about ASL can shut up because YOU have no arguments.

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    16. Anonymous 6:30 PM, your comment is great and you should tell Hogan everything you just wrote! Keep up the good work! 118 000 Americans (who read the blog) will be pleased 'cause they will finally be able to see how things should be done! Thanx, love ya, man!

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    17. Sarcasm? Really? That's the only thing you have to say?

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    18. Btw I am American so I think you've heard enough.

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    19. If you were an American, you'd write "I am AN American" or "I'm AN American", so spare me, please! You would also write "those flights could also be full" instead of "that flights could also be full"! Sorry, sweety, just not your day! xoxo

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    20. Really smart conclusion. You forgot one thing - there are some people who are born in one country, but they are living in an another, like me. I am living in China so I am sorry for mistakes in grammar if they hurt you so much. Look, I really don't want arguing here with you, you can say what ever you want, I just don't want to become an troll like you. If those two errors all you have to say, then I am done here. Actually, I'm done anyway.

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    21. Možda je hteo da kaže kako ima amerikanski pasoš. Anyway momci, malo je dosadila ova vaša priča. Dajte nešto drugo, inače će vam bartender svima poručiti kao u Americi: "don't let the door hit you on the way out!"

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    22. Moj komentar je možda bio sarkastičan, ali je njegov bio krajnje nepristojan i uvredljiv! Tvrdim da tip nije Amerikanac koji živi u Kini, inače ne bi citirao moju rečenicu "pitaj Amerikance koliko ih je čulo za Beograd, a koliko za Dubrovnik ;))", da ne spominjem ostale gluposti koje je izgovorio u tekstu! Pozdrav!

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    23. Ma nije ni bitno, ovo nije blog za raspravljanje, ljudi samo treba da unose predloge ili svoje komentare a ne svadje i slicno :D

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  8. I hope that BEG will have a direct flights to JFK, YYZ, ORD, PEK and may be SYD in that time, because in that flights (especially during the summer) would be a lot of tourists who would continue their journey to Croatia.If that flights would be cheap, there could be more passengers, and more tourists in Croatia, while ASL also could have more passengers and could become more profitable national carrier.

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    1. I think you are on the wrong blog ... if you knew anything about aviation, you'd know it is impossible to be cheap flying to the destinations you have mentioned and to be profitable at the same time - especially for a carrier like Air Serbia. Only big network carriers have the ability to be cheap and profitable on long haul routes

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    2. Yes you're right but I didn't meant cheap like Ryanair for example,but cheap like not so expensive. Maybe I just said it wrong. I know that flights on that routes have to be more expensive then flights in range like 3000 km because you need more fuel, for example, which is expensive. I just meant that they could some how reduce prices a little bit during the summer so more people could fly with them. That's all.

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    3. Summer is when they need to be THE most expensive ... Supply and Demand - remember that one ?? Airlines only have 3-4 mths / year to milk the market given that the other 8 mths are extremely lean

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    4. Ok then I am thinking completely wrong lol thanks for information xD

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  9. Yes you're right but I didn't meant cheap like Ryanair for example,but cheap like not so expensive. Maybe I just said it wrong. I know that flights on that routes have to be more expensive then flights in range like 3000 km because you need more fuel, for example, which is expensive. I just meant that they could some how reduce prices a little bit during the summer so more people could fly with them. That's all.

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  10. There you go.
    http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/32030-national-airlines-eyes-b777s

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  11. Nobody to comment here that there was NO Serbian representatives at the World Routesonline meeting this year in Chicago, where this (potential) deal was discussed. Adria was there, Croatia Airlines too, Zagreb, Rijeka and Dubrovnik airports, but no colleagues from Serbia. Wonder why? Maybie Etihad didn't let them? Somebody knows the answer?

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    1. They are taking part at the IATA slots conference next month.

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    2. So are the others. Slot allocations and routes negotiations are quite different stories, so my question remains without the answer

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    3. Send them an email then and ask them.

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  12. Moj komentar je možda bio sarkastičan, ali je njegov bio krajnje nepristojan i uvredljiv! Tvrdim da tip nije Amerikanac koji živi u Kini, inače ne bi citirao moju rečenicu "pitaj Amerikance koliko ih je čulo za Beograd, a koliko za Dubrovnik ;))", da ne spominjem ostale gluposti koje je izgovorio u tekstu! Pozdrav!

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    1. Мислим да нема сврхе да се узбуђујеш... баш те брига. Као и увек, време ће показати шта ће бити са ваздухопловством у региону и ко ће имати више избора и више авио компанија. Што се мене тиче, ја бих радије да немам летове за северној Америци него да имам са неком тамо скроз непознатом авио компанијом.

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  13. It's simple. As long as Delta flies to Venice we are not going to see any decent airline flying into any of the Croatian airports. It's much more cost effective, there is a huge O&D market between the US and Venice and Delta has the B767-300 which is a marvel for this kind of flight!

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    1. Yes, Venice is also very close to all Croatian cities plus they can go around with a boat or via very good roads.

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    2. Well we are talking about seasonal charter flights, which means that flights are only for Americans going to Dubrovnik during the summer season. So Venice does not have nothing to do with this. Maybe this charter flights will happen, but Dubrovnik won't have a direct, year-round flights to the US like Venice while Air Serbia plans to begin those flights from BEG, because there is just too small number of passengers who would travel to those destinations from both cities (BEG and DBV)

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    3. Yeah but then what's the number of Americans who only travel to Europe to visit Dubrovnik? Americans rarely head to Europe to visit a single place, they usually roam around the continent. That's why Venice is ideal, it's right in the middle, great geographical location.

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    4. You're right, I just said that there are no chances to establish direct year-round flights from DBV to USA, as long as ASL is in the race. Maybe my comment is just a little bit inappropriate.

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  14. Flights between USA and Croatia would be much more full then flights between Serbia and USA. It's just so obviously...

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    1. Wtf? Serbia has even more potential on those flights then Croatia. Croatia can have flights to USA only during the summer season, while people from places like Chicago and New York come to Serbia every day. I don't understand what are you talking about.

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    2. Pa moglo bi kad bi se letelo sa A319 CTN pa BEG je svetski Aerodrom po broju putnika naspram ZAG pa po tome mozemo reci da BEG ima veci potencijal ;))
      IN-NS

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