Thursday, April 28, 2016

Air France-KLM sees strong EX-YU potential


Air France - KLM, one of Europe's largest airline groups, has ruled out the resumption of flights to Belgrade in the foreseeable future as it continues to boost frequencies and capacity in Slovenia and Croatia and seeks new development opportunities in the region. The group sees strong potential in the former Yugoslav market and notes "it is here to stay". "Air France - KLM strongly believes in the potential of ex-Yugoslav countries. This was demonstrated in 2014 with the opening of the first KLM flight from Amsterdam to Zagreb, which was the only route launched in central and south-eastern Europe that year", the group told EX-YU Aviation News. It added, "2014 was also a year of milestones for Air France when we celebrated our 10th anniversary in Slovenia, which shows we are here to stay and that we have a real desire to serve the region to our best. We also launched a codeshare agreement with Croatia Airlines to Paris and Amsterdam. This agreement paves the way for new development opportunities".

Commenting on its existing operations to Zagreb and Ljubljana, the group's spokesperson, Ullie Gendrot, says, "Thanks to the four daily flights (two to Paris and two to Amsterdam), we offer Croatian passengers excellent connections to our 231 destinations worldwide. Moreover, Air France has increased its capacity as of the summer schedule. The route is now operated with an Airbus A318 aircraft offering 126 seats. In Slovenia, Air France has recently signed a connecting codeshare agreement with Adria Airways, which will allow us to offer even more possibilities to Slovenian passengers to Paris. KLM also signed a codeshare agreement with Adria last January on the Ljubliana - Amsterdam route". According to Ms Gendrot, the group sees a mixed passenger structure on its flights from the Croatian and Slovenian capitals, with 40% being point to point travellers and the remaining 60% transfer passengers.

Despite its growth in Croatia and Slovenia, the Air France - KLM group has a limited presence elsewhere in the former Yugoslavia. The French carrier suspended its daily flights to Belgrade in the summer of 2013 as part of its cost cutting measures. However, it has no plans to return to Serbia in the near future. "We continue to seek new opportunities for both airlines", the group says. It adds, "Air France did stop its flights to Serbia, but has signed a codeshare agreement with Air Serbia in 2014 and now offers two daily flights from Belgrade to Paris. In Montenegro, Air France also signed a codeshare agreement in 2014 with Montenegro Airlines for flights to Paris". Meanwhile, KLM, which also codeshares on Air Serbia's service between Amsterdam and Belgrade has no intentions to launch the route, noting, "There are no plans to change the codeshare at this moment".

75 comments:

  1. They often upgrade equipment on CDG-ZAG flights so they must be doing well.

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  2. I'm still dumbstruck at their suspension of BEG. Their planes were full.

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    1. Healthy loads does not necessarily translate into profits.

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    2. They had really good loads and the fares were anything but cheap.

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    3. Massive losses coupled with competition from W6 and JU on the route. No brainier really.

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  3. Not really trusting what they say. They close their office in BEG and rely on code sharing with JU. The same applies to KL. The financial situation of AF especially is quite questionable...

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    1. AF-KL has no reason to return to BEG when JU is bringing them passengers cheaply. JU gets only about 7 Euros per segment for all passengers that connect onward to the Americas. They would be crazy to enter the market and to kill such a sweet deal. I mean, at least now we know how KL can offer flights to JFK for as little as €395 (promotion).

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    2. Really bad news for Belgrade, Air France is a major Airline with large connecting flights from Paris all over the world, the fact that they suspended Belgrade means that either Serbia isn't attractive enough as a market or they saw no profit in remaining there.

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    3. "JU gets only about 7 Euros per segment for all passengers that connect onward to the Americas."

      I've seen this misinformation posted time and time again on this blog, with absolutely no valid claim or source to back it up.

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    4. Most of the income for big airlines is from First/Business class passenger and there are not many BEG bound.

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    5. Not trying to turn this into some anti-BEG post but it is odd that both BA and AF packed up and left Serbia.

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    6. 'I've seen this misinformation posted time and time again on this blog, with absolutely no valid claim or source to back it up.'

      It's not misinformation, most fares are around €7 per segment so €14 return. You can easily check in the system for any ticket sold on AF-KL code between BEG and AMS/CDG. (connecting passengers)

      For comparison's sake JU sells its region for €45 one way (for its code-share partners). Again, you can check this in the system if you work in the airline business. Nothing confidential there.

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    7. I don't get this.
      JU sells its code shares for its regional flights for €45. But accepts KLMs charge of €7 per flight. Is this some sort of deal JU cannot get out of? I do not see how this can possibly make sense.
      If anyone knows more about this it would be great if they could elaborate.

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    8. It's a deal that was signed by Jat a few years back after LH suspended their c/s deal. They needed to find an alternative which they did. I doubt the deal with LH was any better.

      Now, the real question is why did Air Serbia renew it? I guess that back then they lacked a proper alternative as AB is chronically on the verge of bankruptcy.

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    9. Sećam se kada nam je Luftika raskinula ugovor. Prešaltali smo se na KL i broj putnika za AMS je odmah skočio. Fenomenalna je bila popunjenost. Tada nije bio toliki problem jer je AMS sam po sebi imao dobru popunjenost.

      Sada ćemo videti šta će se desiti. Dobro se puni JFK ali je zato broj bukinga preko Holandije znatno opao. Popunjenost na liniji za AMS će sigurno opasti, što je i logično.

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    10. That all maybe so, but why are they still honoring this deal? They can only be loosing money on it. Why don't they renegotiate this deal? Or cancel it altogether, I mean it is not to the benefit of JU, it only very greatly benefits KLM

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    11. Sve to stoji, ali i dalje ostaje pitanje zašto danas taj ugovor još postoji?

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    12. It was renegotiated and it was agreed that the two airlines will be exchanging the YQ taxes, they didn't touch the fare structure.
      They had to keep it, how else would they funnel passengers to NA? With Delta and Virgin Atlantic all they have is an interline which is useless.

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    13. I'm happy that Air France flies to/from Zagreb, I'll probably be using them on my flights to New York/Los Angeles in December, they have some good offers on their flights to the US!

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    14. Good for you.

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  4. KLM has a fantastic cs with Air Serbia which is quite favorable towards them. Not surprised they have no plans to change that.

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    1. Why doesn't Air Serbia have plans to change it?

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  5. thanks to our 4 daily flights we offer croatian passengers...... two own aircraft and two code share flights = 4 daily flights or do I understand this incorrectly?

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    1. Yes I think they refer to code shares as their own flights as well.

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    2. 2 total to Amsterdam and 2 total to Paris is what I think they mean??

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  6. "The group sees a mixed passenger structure on its flights from the Croatian and Slovenian capitals, with 40% being point to point travellers and the remaining 60% transfer passengers."

    Would be interesting to see which destinations people are connecting to the most.

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    1. Doesn't have to be the case really. Usually its points in western Europe that are not served directly from ZAG/LJU and then comes TATL destinations.

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    2. I work as travel agent in Amadeus. I sell AF/KL a lot to USA (af code shares with DL cover the whole place), Canada, South and Central America, UK (KL especially), North Africa (Morocco, Tunisia), as well as Northern Europe and from time to time Spain and France.

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  7. TURKISH INTERESTED IN CROATIA AIRLINES

    During Turkey's president Erdogan visit in Zagreb he announce investment in 200 million EUR in Croatia, but also express interest in much more investments especially in ACI marinas, food industry and privatization of public companies.

    In Croatia-Turkish business forum Turks show interest in privatization of Croatia Airlines. As Turks show interest in opening airlines in BiH and Macedonia, and if that materialized including buying shares in Croatia Airlines they can make very strong system in which they can have:

    - routes from Zagreb, Split, Dubrovnik, Zadar, Pula, Rijeka, Sarajevo, Tuzla, Mostar, Skopje and Ohrid to Istanbul

    - routes from Skopje, Mostar and Sarajevo to Zagreb with connections to north and west (connections via IST to north are not cost-effective)

    - routes from Zagreb, Split, Dubrovnik and Sarajevo to Skopje with connections to Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Antalya, Sofia and even some other destinations in south and east

    - some routes from Skopje, Sarajevo, Split, Dubrovnik, Zadar, Rijeka, Pula and Osijek to Munich, Frankfurt, Vienna, Zurich, London, Paris, Amsterdam, Brussels, Copenhagen, Stockholm... with combination of connections via those cities to make more frequencies.

    That could be huge alternative to Austrian, Air Serbia, Lufthansa and even Wizzair in exYU.

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    1. Actually Croatian media said, "Nagađa se i da još uvijek postoji interes za Croatia Airlines". Would be nice but seems this is just media trying to get a story. We will see.

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    2. My source is not Croatian media but participants in forum who I speak with and will have lunch next week about that possibility.

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    3. TURKSIH 450 AVIONA I 100 MILIJUNA PUTNIKA U 4 GODINE

      Turkish planira povečati flotu na 450 zrakoplova (311 danas) i 100 milijuna putnika (72,4 milijuna danas) do 2020. godine. Trenutno Turkish ima 186 naručenih aviona (velika većina će biti isporučena do 2020, tek nekoliko od tih do 2021). Turkish naglašava da dio starih aviona kane zamjeniti sa novima, jer je vrlo važna taktika kompanije da putnicima daju iskustvo putovanja sa novim avionima (ove godine povlače svih tri A340 iz flote, a u idućih par godina će zamjeniti nekoliko desetaka 737-800 sa 737 MAX8).

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    4. Will be interesting to see if LH would leave the Turks do so or if they do not want to better secure Croatia for them selves... i think OU for LH is more important than just JP. On the other side JP has good ties to Albania, Kosovo.... lets see

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    5. I highly doubt this will happen. Turkish said itself it is not interested. Now apparently they are also interested in investing in B&H Airlines and Croatia Airlines at the same time. Don't think so.

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    6. Meanwhile, while we are on the topic of takeover, Alitalia will buy 49% in Air Malta. Etihad has been holding talks for months with the Maltese government to arrange this.

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    7. So many companies said they are not interested in companies they bought later (Etihad for Jat for example).

      Alitalia "will not buy" 49% but they said they are interested and will start negotiations. Turkish already start negotiations with Air Malta last year. So, maybe we will have here fight between Turkish and Etihad.

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    8. Alitalia said it MAY BUY a 49 percent stake in Air Malta to boost its services and accelerate consolidation in the industry.

      (...)

      Chief executive Cramer Ball said the airline WOULD DECIDE whether to invest in loss-making Air Malta if its due diligence on the airline proves successful and once it is certain the move would not affect its own restructuring plan.

      "We have decided to look closely to see whether Air Malta can fit into our strategic growth, particularly how our networks can complement each other in areas such as southern Italy," Ball said in a statement.

      "The future of the commercial aviation industry has to be one of consolidation."

      (...)

      Air Malta Chairperson Maria Micallef said the NEGOTIATIONS WERE AT AN EARLY STAGE AND THE STATE-OWNED COMPANY WOULD CEASE TALKS WITH OTHER AIRLINES (...)

      (Reuters)

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    9. Pegasus airlines representatives were also present at the forum, maybe they plan some routes next year!

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    10. Yeah. Sell everything to the Turks, like the Bulgarians alrady did...

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    11. It would be great if Turkish would buy Croatia Airlines, better than Lufthansa, or no one!

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    12. It is reality. Montenegro sold everything to Russians, Slovenians to Italians, Serbians to Araps, Bosnians to Turks, but for sure Croats will not sold everything to Turks, they already sold almost everything to Germans.

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  8. LUFTHANSA PONOVO KUPUJE

    Nakon što je kupila udjele velik broj kompanija (Austrian, Swiss, Eurowings, Dolomite, Brussele, bmi, jetBlue, SunExpress) i naprsno prekinula sa shopingom Lufthansa je najavila da pregovara sa Brusselsom, SAS-om i Condorom oko preuzimanja i involviranja u Eurowings.

    Jučerašnja objava da će oduku o kupovini preostalih 55% dionica Brusselsa i uključivanje Brusselsa u Eurowings donjeti do kraja kolovoza svakako je znakovita. Eurowings bi bio odlična opcija za brojne afričke linije koje ima Brussels a koje tržište vapi za jeftinim kartama, te bi bio i izvrsna alternativa za MEB3 koji ima veliku ekspanziju diljem Afrike.

    Nakon što potpuno inkorporira Germanwings u Eurowings, te zamjeni CRJ900 sa naručenim A320 Eurowings će imati 105 zrakoplova. No, možebitnim involviranjem Brusselsa flota bi se popesti na 145 zrakoplova (bez RJ100, ali sa naručenim A320).

    Ukoliko Luthansa uspije inkorporirati i SAS, te Condor Eurowings bi imao flotu od čak 324 aviona, a što bi bila kompanija koje bi se ravnopravno mogla tući sa Ryanairom i eaysJetom, a bila bi daleko jača od Norwegiana, Wizza, Vuelinga i Transavie.

    U tom kontekstu moja predviđanja od prije dvije godine da bi Lufthansa mogla preuzeti Adriju i Croatiu i u Ljubljani, Zagrebu i Splitu napraviti bazu Eurowingsa se pokazuju vrlo realnim.

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    1. Ideja im nije nesto pametna,jer bolje je da kompanija bude u grupi,a da se LCC brend Eurowings sam razvija,nema mi logike aviokompaniju kao sto je SAS ili SN(citaj naslednik Sabene),koje imaju preko 50 godina tradicije pretvoriti u neki niskobudzetni brent koji je na losem glaso od bukvalno prvog long-haul leta.

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    2. ok, SN makes sense, they already own 45%. but why on Earth would they buy SK? it's rather big company

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    3. For me to buy Condor and to incorporate it in Eurowings makes perfect sense. Eurowings would have very strong present in leisure routes and with Condor they will do that even more.

      But to incorporate Brussels and SAS looks like no sense. One should leave them as "independent companies" with their own brand (like Swiss or Austrian), shrink their fleet and use some of their A320 to make Eurowings base in their hubs and bases to fly on routes which does not have commercial sense for legacy carriers.

      But, I think that Lufthansa strategy is to have just Lufthansa (and maybe Swiss) as legacy carrier and to make all other airports as feeding to their hubs (Frankfurt, Munich and Zurich) and in same time base for Eurowings. On that way they will fight Ryanair, easyJet, Vueling and Norwegian expansion (Wizz is as good as dead after Ryanair attack), but in same time they will destroy expansion of hubs like CPH, ARN, OSL, BRU, VIE... They will not be hubs any more but P2P huge airports. Is it good? Of course not! Is it real? Unfortunately yeas!

      Let me just point that 10 year ago Lufthansa said there would be just 3 legacy carriers in Europe (Lufthansa - Star, Air France - SkyTeam, and British - oneworld) and 5 LCC (the best chance is on Ryanair, easyJet, Eurowings, Vueling and Norwegian). 10 year latter we are much near to that goal.

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    4. The main reason why i am hating Eurowings project,is merging big legacy airlines in some trash LCC airline,on other side i dont agree about merging Condor in,because if they want to make holiday and LCC airlines,they should take name Condor not Eurowings,introducing new brand like Eurowings is not good,Eurowings existed before but i am really against LH project.SK and SN are national carriers in total for 4 countries so you made some Eurowings crap,and you destroy airline history,and i think they should stay on Germanwings brand,and finish this LCC horror.They cant win war against FR and they really need to know it.Air Berlin was about to buy Condor but they plan,got canceled.I wish SK go in some Sky Team alliance group cause it probably better then having this way of partnership with LH.I hope it wont happen,for SN i know for sure they will buy it,but there is no logic destroying Europe gateway for africa/SN hub at BRU,there is really no need for that.And it will just make prices from LH group higher,for explain their flight for FRA last friday was 700 eur,but with ASL was 123 eur.I really dont get why they have so huge prices.One way ticket to USA cost around 3000 eur,with them but with ASL just 900eur,so they will for sure transit pax from EX-YU/not huge number of pax .And WORK AND TRAVEL USA this year will go also with ASL/many pax on that program goes with AF/DL/KL instead of LH because their prices are huge.

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    5. "involviranja" lipa naša hrvatski jezik...

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    6. Dali vi mislite da ce TK u ZAG da napüravi neki hub sa CTN i mozda preko leta bude bio 1 A333 . A moje misljenje da ako dodje do kupovine da ce se dobar deo feed-a premestiti sa FRA,ZRH i VIE na IST .
      INN-NS

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    7. INN-NS If they buy OU,probably IST will become major destination for them.Hardly they will give A33O to OU cause they have lack of planes,and they are doing rapid expansion.

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    8. Of course they will not put A330 in Zagreb, that for sure will never happened as connection via IST to North America is more than good.

      Instead you will have 4 flights per day from ZAG to IST, 2 flights per day SPU and DBV to IST, and 1 daily flight from RJK, ZAD and PUY to IST. But some routes from ZAG will stay on, and some new one which will be feet from SKP, SJJ, OMO, PRN, DBV, SPU, ZAD, PUY will or sure happened.

      And that should be much better than Eurowings crap + several feeding flights from every airport to MUC.

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  9. Considering the losses they are still making I doubt we will see them expanding much through ex-yu soon.

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  10. A couple day ago, I spoke someone from Transavia, the low cost company (Air France - KLM group) and they are planning to increase flights from the Netherlands to Croatia, and opening some new routers, Eindhoven - Zadar.

    And are planning to increase the flights from Split and Dubrovnik.

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  11. OT: Wizz cancels TZL-NYO from October!

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    1. This is not confirmed. Wizz Air's schedule for the winter is not 100% complete as yet. The airline has operational problems in Tuzla with early morning and late operations due to bad weather and is looking to reschedule flights to Stockholm with non-based aircraft. Expectations are that the flights will be put on sale at a later stage.

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    2. Thanks for clearing that up Ex-Yu.

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  12. Sorry guys but I still don't get it!who can explaine why BA-AF-KL choose to fly to zagreb than belgrade?Since croatia airlines fly to london,paris and amsterdam they could also have code share with OU but instead they fly on their own to zagreb.So why they prefer zagreb than belgrade?

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    1. Cause ASL even when its with JAT branding had huge partnership with AF/KL,OU is STAR ALLIANCE member,and of course Sky Team member wont do partnership with them,they want to kick OU from their hubs,and ASL is doing feeder service like OU do to LH.

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    2. Well GUESS WHOO with your logic all the star alliance members that fly to belgrade want to kick out air serbia from their hubs????What you said got no sense to me!!

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    3. KL and AF do have codeshare agreements with Croatia Airlines.
      Examples:
      OU450=KL3080
      OU470=AF5075

      BA doesn't as far as I know

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    4. Just follow logic,why they dont do same thing they done with ASL,instead they opened their own flights,and what is reason not to have codeshare?AF/KL is earning most of money from codeshared flights,and transit pax so?

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    5. Ok,can you please answear to your questions that you just put to me?Let' say that I'm an idiot and I don't understand please explaine!

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  13. Air Berlin reports another record loss For 2015!!!

    The 2015 loss grew to 447 Million Euros from 377 Million Euros in 2014.
    This is shocking considering their restructuring efforts (cutting fleet, routes and staff) and very low fuel prices which helped almost all other airlines to post record profits last year.

    I can't see how AB will ever be saved.

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    1. All this at a time when oil is at a record low. If Etihad fails with AB it will be the end of their 'business model,' that is of them stepping in as saviors so as to rescue failed airlines.


      RIP AB

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    2. There is no help for that airline,they should let it go,cause they see nothing is helping.Alitalia will probably be same fate.

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    3. With Ryanair expanding in Germany, their demise is all but imminent. I give them a year. The problem is that Etihad can't throw money at them anymore.

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    4. How can they still have such huge losses after all those years of EY investment and management?
      And it is getting worse every year!

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    5. So Air Berlin is almost dead.
      Darwin is as good as dead with just 3 routes.
      Alitalia is not in good condition.

      Basically Etihad is not very successful in Europe.

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  14. OT: regarding current ETOPS for LX B7773. Etops is at 180 min.
    i have no feedback from the fleet chief yet concerning planned etops in the future. Will do once I hear from him

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  15. AF-KL ima jako dobre odnose sa JU ali od kad je dosao EY ti odnosi su se dosta popravili pa se moze jeftinje putovati do USA nego sa jednim presedanjem po Evropi.
    INN-NS

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    1. То шта си написао нема никаквог смисла мачко.

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  16. Did Air Cairo returned to BEG? I can see that the flights are bookable.
    Can anybody update us on this?

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  17. ASL Superfan - night shiftApril 29, 2016 at 4:43 AM

    OT: 1: Air Serbia now lists 22 aircraft in the fleet including CRJ900. Click on the Seat Map for CRJ900 layout:

    http://www.airserbia.com/en/our-fleet

    http://s32.postimg.org/mum4h20et/ASLcrj900.jpg

    2: A330 is getting APU check:

    http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah109/rosko79/received_10207415609206144_zpstz0rcvhl.jpeg

    3: Four awesome Air Serbia charter destinations today for Easter long weekend break:

    JU 3500 Naples 06:00 A3 Boeing 737-300
    JU 6240 Pisa - Gal Galilei 07:00 A1 Boeing 737-300
    JU 3400 Nice - Cote D Azur 09:55 C4 Boeing 737-300
    JU 6140 Madrid Barajas 10:45 C1 Boeing 737-300

    4: Coffee now available at BEG gates:

    https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/13055239_1099697773385486_6482916524811365462_o.png

    5: One of several proposals to extend BEG apron A with additional A11-A15 positions and move GA apron to a new location. NB: A10 is planned for widebody position with dual air bridges (photo credit Dina Djordjevic T6):

    http://media.tangosix.rs/2016/04/20160427_145913-2.jpg

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