Wednesday, February 22, 2017

Air Serbia to launch Venice service


Air Serbia will commence flights from Belgrade to Venice Marco Polo Airport starting June 1. The Serbian carrier will maintain four weekly services between the two cities, maintaining a split morning and afternoon schedule each Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. Flights will be operated by an ATR 72 aircraft, offering 560 return seats between the two cities each week. Venice will become Air Serbia's third destination in Italy after Rome and Milan and one of its longest routes operated by a turboprop. The carrier's CEO, Dane Kondić, said, "Our four-weekly service will provide business and leisure travellers with multiple travel options to the Serbian capital, as well as quick connections over Belgrade to Southeast Europe and the Middle East".

The new flights to Venice will be promoted at the upcoming Belgrade Tourism Fair which begins tomorrow. The service will mark the first time Belgrade has been linked with nonstop flights to the Italian city. While JAT Yugoslav Airlines did operate to Venice until the breakup of the former Yugoslavia, the flights were maintained from Dubrovnik, launching back in 1963. The Serbian carrier anticipates strong loads on the upcoming route. "More than 55% of the Serbian diaspora in Italy, estimated at up to 70.000 people, live in the catchment area of Venice Marco Polo Airport, and will benefit from this new air link to Serbia. We have established a solid presence in the Italian market and will work with our tourism and trade partners, including Alitalia and Etihad Airways, to make the new service a success”, Mr Kondić said.

Air Serbia previously maintained sales to Venice through its partner Air Berlin with the carrier codesharing on its German counterparts' flights between Dusseldorf and the Italian city. In an interview to "Gulf Business" last year, Mr Kondić highlighted Italy as a market with great potential for Air Serbia. "There’s probably half-a-dozen to a dozen points that we could cover that we haven’t started flying to yet. In Italy, we don’t fly to Florence or Venice, for example. Each airline [Etihad Partners] is focusing on core networks now, then we’ll look for incremental opportunities", Mr Kondić said. Venice becomes the airline's first new destination for the 2017 summer season. It has previously announced it would terminate its operations to Istanbul starting March 15, sighting declining demand for travel to Turkey. Further flight details for the new Belgrade - Venice service can be found here.

175 comments:

  1. Good news. Not a lot of people saw this coming. Wonder if we will see other new destinations.

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    1. I think there is still a strong chance that Tehran may be introduced this summer.

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  2. Right destination, wrong aircraft for the route.

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    1. I think there is a much better chance of the route succeeding with an ATR considering the lower capacity and lower costs.

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  3. Nice news, just curious, why Venice?

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    1. "More than 55% of the Serbian diaspora in Italy, estimated at up to 70.000 people, live in the catchment area of Venice Marco Polo Airport, and will benefit from this new air link to Serbia. We have established a solid presence in the Italian market and will work with our tourism and trade partners, including Alitalia and Etihad Airways, to make the new service a success”

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    2. Thanks for the insight.

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  4. Instead of growth, closing one route to open another. Shell game continues.

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    1. Have you ever noticed that Closing unprofitable routes to open profitable ones is what airlines do? Or are you too fixated in your anti-JU psychosis, as the harbinger of JU's demise? lol

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    2. A bit harsh anon 9.35am. I'm sure anon 9.04 am comments are not anti JU and they're entitled to an opinion

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    3. Anon 10:15,

      Anyone who has a clue about aviation knows damn well how difficult it is for small legacies to achieve sustainable growth in the low-yielding region such as exYU. Anon 9:04 is a typical "Homo Balcanicus" who sits, watches and asks cynical questions about growth and success - as if they grow on trees and all it takes is to pick them.

      Growth of any business in this part of the world - and especially an airline business - requires a lot of attempts, good hits, total misses, ups and downs, enters and exits. There is NO such thing as a steady growth path that nothing can disrupt. The conditions are severe and it's bloody difficult to survive them. And so we have some people who actually do something and try something in such environment - and we have some people who sit aside and shoot cynical questions about growth and success. God forbid they pull their sleeves up and make some growth and success in ANYTHING. No, cynical commenting is about the greatest achievement they can do.

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    4. Bravo Dane, nice to have you here on exYU.

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    5. Anonymous at 10:34, next time preface your comment with 'rant' just so we know what to expect.

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    6. Last Anon,

      It actually wouldn't be that bad to have Dane here. He might be able to somehow contribute to the aviation discussion - something you can only dream of. Your league is that of cheap oneliners that of course have nothing to do with the topic or the aviation as such.

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    7. Last two Anons, that is.

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    8. "Anyone who has a clue about aviation knows damn well how difficult it is for small legacies to achieve sustainable growth in the low-yielding region such as ex-YU."

      That is true, but when you're in such a region, like in the case of Ethiopian, what you do is try to create customer bases OUT of that region and act like a transfer airline. Air Serbia has done its expansion in this regard half-way (same as the long-haul) at the very beginning and is now retreating, before reaching its critical mass.

      Air Serbia's main markets should have been MENA, Turkey, Central Asia, Eastern Europe (onwards to Western Europe and North America) but never Ex-Yu. Just look at the route map of LOT or Austrian, everything's there yet Air Serbia's network becomes more and more closer to Jat. It's only a matter of time FR and W6 will invade its home-base like it's happening in Sofia and they'll loose even the O&D they rely upon.

      BEG or the immediate region should have never been Air Serbia's main focus, that's where they're the most vulnerable.

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    9. Ethiopia is bigger than Turkey in terms of population. It's leagues ahead of ASL. It is not fair comparison.

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    10. "a typical "Homo Balcanicus" who sits, watches and asks cynical questions about growth and success"
      I loved this definition. These kind of people are despised in US. Yet in Serbia, it is better to be "smart" do-nothing cynic, than to do anything. You will make you some mistake eventually, and they will immediately pile on you. Explains why is Serbia there where it is.

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    11. Ethiopian had 1.13 million pax in 2003 and a fleet of a bit more than 20 aircraft including turboprops. It operates out of the poorest region of the world with the closest city with a decent purchase parity being 2.000 kilometres away. Ethiopia's population might be higher but the percentage of people able to fly and travel might be on par with Bulgaria.

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    12. What about Icelandair? They are based in a country whose population is as big as New Belgrade's yet they have a fleet of 26 B752s and 4 B763s.

      We can also look at Denmark where Copenhagen is SK's main hub.

      There are many examples out there.

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    13. Sure, but Serbia is not quite El Dorado. 100 millions vs. 7 millions is a big difference. Even if only 10% of Ethiopians can afford air travel, that is 5 times more than in Serbia. Plus, the competition in SEE is fierce compared to East Africa.

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    14. *including AirBaltic

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    15. Every Icelander can afford to travel by air several times per year. Plus there is no real alternative to air travel. Plus they are presently global tourist destination.
      Second, SK hub in a country that has one of the highest living standards in the world and is very popular city destination is very dissimilar to BEG. Not fair comparison.

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    16. So what you're trying to say is that Air Serbia's example is unique and there is nothing that could have been done better under those variables?

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    17. JU is not unique and many things there can be done much better. But there are way smarter ways to say this than: "Route cancelled... nah... I told you so... same old Jat... no growth"

      Nemjee,

      Iceland is a natural transfer point between North America and Europe. Comparing it to Serbia is more than ridiculous.

      Ethiopian, on the other hand, at some point had the entire Africa at its disposal. The whole continent needed a transfer hub, Ethiopian saw the potential and materialized it. They were never squeezed between two giants from the Star Alliance. Had they been squeezed, I guarantee you their story would not have been as successful. Another completely irrelevant comparison with JU.

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    18. So why couldn't Belgrade become the natural transit point between the Middle East/Balkans and the rest of Europe? I don't see how it's ridiculous given that both Iceland and Serbia have a favorable geographical location. The only difference being that Icelanders made something of their own advantage. Even OS is trying to do it.

      Also, the argument about Icelanders travelling often is simply not good enough. If that were true then airlines like Iceland Express would not have gone bankrupt. Even WOW Air is working on setting up its own transfer hub in KEF.

      If your argument about Icelanders travelling was true then why even bother with transfers?

      Yes, Iceland is a popular tourist destination but if we have learned anything from OU then it's that the local airline might not be able to secure the biggest share of the market. KEF is served by several airlines who are exclusively there because of the tourists.

      As for SAS and CPH, yes, Denmark is a wealthy country but Copenhagen has a population of some 600.000 while right across the sea there is Malmo with its own lowcost airport. Equally so once you leave the 'Devil's island' there are several Danish airports with scheduled flights. Yet with all this competition, CPH manages to handle 29 million passengers. Are you implying this is all because of the O&D?

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    19. Allow to me add one final point, even Aegean with its relatively unfavorable geographical location is trying to create a hub. They seem to be successful at it. So what's Belgrade's excuse this time?

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    20. I didn't say Belgrade/JU was doing a great job. What I'm saying is that your comparison of Iceland (a nature-made runway in the Atlantic, connecting two richest parts of the world way before TK or MEB3 joined the game) and Serbia (just one of many continental hub pretends trying to get a slice of cake AFTER the * Alliance grabbed most of it) makes absolutely no sense.

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    21. The market between Western Europe and North America is extremely competitive. You are making it seem as if Icelandair faced no competition all these years. If they didn't have a competent management they wouldn't be here where they are today.

      Yes, Icelandair has been doing this for many decades but so has JU. Both FI and JU went through a turbulent period and both almost went belly up. The only difference is that FI's recovery and expansion seems to be going much better.

      What are we to say about LO which has LH to the west, SAS and Finnair to the north and Aeroflot to the east? With all this it seems they have managed to find a way to grow.

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    22. One more question Anonymous, have you actually tried anything of what I'm saying?

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    23. @ Nemjee,

      you can't compare JU to LO. Poland is country with a population of over 40 mln., with huge even enormous diaspora in North America and also is one of the biggest and fastest growing economies of Europe.

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    24. I am giving you examples of much bigger and much smaller countries making it in this business. ;)

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    25. Sorry that was me above, I clicked a bit too fast.

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    26. Well Nemjee, unlike Iceland, that has hundreds or thousands kilometers around it, BEG has huge competition, with many big airports competing for the same market. You have so many better comparisons, like Budapest, Bucharest, Sofia. There is nothing unique in BEG. Yet JU is doing better than any of the national legacies in the countries above. Criticism is fine, but comparisons with Denmark, Iceland, and Ethiopia make little sense.
      Be realistic people.

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    27. So where do you think all the passengers Icelandair carries come from? All those empty spaces around the island?

      No, they come from places like Denmark, Sweden, Germany, France, the US, Canada...
      All of these markets are highly competitive and are well covered by FI's competitors, even more so than the vast majority of markets JU is after.

      If you paid closer attention to what I wrote earlier you would have seen that I also mentioned airlines such as Austrian Airlines, Aegean and airBaltic. There are even some non-European examples such as MEA from Lebanon or COPA from Panama which could be mentioned here.

      Furthermore, even when I spoke of countries such as Denmark it was to show how a massive hub can be setup in areas with a modest number of inhabitants.

      Also, don't forget that SK might have a much wealthier local market but their costs are much higher than LO's or JU's.

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    28. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 22, 2017 at 4:02 PM

      Nemjee is absolutely right. I was in Iceland and was more than fascinated how they made hub and Icelandair transfer airline. One really have vision to made connection between Western Europe and USA/Canada via Iceland. First there are zillion direct routes, one should ask himself why someone will use 1stop flight via some small island. 2nd they are tiny nation which can not afford tests, and for sure did not have huge P2P base to open those routes. And they made it. They survive 2001. with huge reduction and magic leasing policy. They show how one can use their advantage and did not have disadvantages and potential problems as excuses to do nothing. A contraire.

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    29. Let's also not forget Air Astana or Royal Air Maroc which is a very serious player. Back to Ethiopia, it would be either deliberately dishonest or ignorant to say that they didn't face any competition. They either had direct or indirect competition from all the long-established colonial European carriers flying to Africa with direct flights, from the not at all insignificant Kenya Airways in their immediate vicinity, from the bursting ME3 in the Gulf and to a lesser extent Egypt Air in the North and all that for a much smaller population base. Add to that the stigma they had to fight as an 'African' carrier, yet they made it.

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    30. Nothing goes without obstacles, but you need to have a vision, a strategy, a clear idea of the place where you want to get to and then you stick to it. Ethiopian had it, so does Aegean, LOT...

      The problem with Air Serbia is the absence of it since either model wasn't fully implemented and for long enough (O&D or transfer, boutique or hybrid/LCC...), just like Air Berlin.

      It merely reacts to the developments that others dictate, those who have a vision.

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    31. I forgot to answer to this.

      "you can't compare JU to LO. Poland is country with a population of over 40 mln.,"

      Well, Doha is the capital of a country of less than 2 million people so that argument doesn't make any sense and sounds more like a justification or a prejudice. There are more people living in the ~450 miles radius from Belgrade (cities like Budapest, Bucharest, Athens, Istanbul) than Warsaw. Political borders are completely irrelevant in-here. Looking at that, Belgrade is in an even better position than Warsaw where only Budapest has an equal or superior position to Belgrade.

      https://pp.vk.me/c639125/v639125496/b191/NZ2uPMc2lQE.jpg

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    32. @Aэrologic,
      are really comparing Serbia to Qatar? and let me quote as well "only Budapest has an equal or superior position to Belgrade" - Beograd equal to Budapest?! on what world??? lol

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    33. What's so special about Budapest?

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    34. He's most likely suffering from an inferiority complex.

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    35. He is talking about the airport's catchment area where BUD has more than BEG while BEG has more than WAW. Pay closer attention before trashing.

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    36. hm, comparing land locked country in region with saturated market for legacy products, squeezed between half of dozen of players, several alliances, fierce politics issues... i don't know. some parallels could be made, but not all.

      also it is a question what JU could have done in this area. markets that it is targeting and that you are mentioning are reachable with narrow-bodies, so i wouldn't call this a favorable geographical location. to have something like that you would need to have more destination between the target markets, like MEB3 have. it's not like this is road transport.

      btw kazakhs and morrocans are unsustainable businesses.

      also, there is an effect of saturation of the developed markets. in most rich countries it is usually 1 travel per inhabitant per year. rarely it goes above. so saying Icelanders travel several times per year would be false. although this statistic could have change in last 5y on account of lowcosters changing the industry.

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    37. Excellent discussion guys, keep it up.

      Enjoyed reading your thoughts. Aerologic strikes me as someone who knows his stuff, and yet I can't help but think that if JU did what he's been advocating the business would have lost twice/triple more money than it currently does. It would have been audacious, but it would have ended up in tears.

      Sometimes losing in a particular way feels better than winning in another way though.

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    38. That is true and for 5 years at least but how long it took any of the reputable airlines to get there where they are today? In one thing i agree with the Anonymous poster, is that people in this region 'Homo Balcanicus' expect results and for them to be BIG and right away. That is IMPOSSIBLE. Success is a long-haul flight that starts on the ground and you start by giving your employees at least a clear vision in order to have them inspired and make them feel a part of the team, instead of an army of unsatisfied been counters. That reflects on the level of service as well and acts as a vicious circle that you need to break at some point. Last but not least, at this very stage i believe the priority of Air Serbia shouldn't be profit but to get as much market share as possible in the emerging markets.

      @AnonymousFebruary 22, 2017 at 10:32 PM

      No, i'm pointing-out to the fact that the number of inhabitants in a country/city housing a hub is totally irrelevant given that aviation is precisely the industry of connecting markets beyond national and ethnic borders. I would not go into discussion with you as to Belgrade vs. Budapest since that's purely subjective (each city having its advantages and disadvantages), what i'm talking about here is catchment area and geo-strategic position.

      I may just add that many of my friends who are part of the diplomatic corps were telling me that Belgrade is one of the most sought of positions in Europe, due to its friendly people, good infrastructure and cheap cost of living and ranks in its appeal for long-term living much higher than Budapest. You'd actually be surprised to hear the entire list of cities preferred by people on diplomatic mission and it's very far from your typical "most touristy/most liveable TOP 10" cities in Europe and the world.

      Hope i made things more clear for you now.

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    39. @Nemjee You're correct, particularly with respect to Copenhagen being the main hub for all of Scandinavia. It is way more similar to Belgrade than you'd expect. Even population-wise which is actually circa 1,2 million. 600,000 people is only downtown, which, due to our weird municipal, administrative policy is considered Copenhagen proper. Point here being that there are parts of the city which aren't officially included in the municipality of Copenhagen. Even tho they used to be and still are de facto part of the city. There is a kind of rationale behind it, but it's irrelevant for air traffic. Essentially, it's like not counting New Belgrade, or Zemun as part of the Belgrade city.

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  5. Sad jos Ankara i Lyon sa lokalnim busom do Zeneve. Ovde se zalazem vec dve godine za Veneciju ili Trevizo zbog gastosa i arapa.

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  6. Excellent news. Just don't kill it with over-the-top fares!

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  7. Jat used to fly to Trieste until a couple of years ago. This is a much better choice and has a bigger chance of working.

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    1. Trst je dupe od nicega i Srbi zive oko Vicence.

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    2. Nadam se da razumes da u Srbiji, cak i ako se ne racuna Kosovo, zivi preko milion ljudi koji nisu Srbi. Citav jedan Beograd. Srbija, Crna Gora i Makedonija su jedine ex-yu drzave gde ljudi razlicitih nacija jos zive izmesano u vecem broju. Za ponos.

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    3. Just to clarify I wrote the comment @9.08 and I meant Venice has much more potential of working out not Trieste (which failed). Sounded like I was advocatong for Trieste to be brought back.

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  8. Great news and flying on Air Serbias flagship aircraft. Even better!

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  9. It's interesting that they applied for double daily slots to Venice 3 years ago. Times were exactly the same as the ones published today except both morning and afternoon flight were daily.

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  10. VCE is really a good and right choice, it should have been introduced some years earlier.

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  11. OT: Norwegian, ZAG-ARN, 2pw from 10.06.

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    1. Excellent news, finally Scandinavia direct flight, I used to transfer in Copenhagen!

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  12. Good news. I actually think it is smart they they put an ATR on this route rather than the A319. Hopefully more new routes are to come :)

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  13. Given the recent JU ATR breakdowns the bus might be a quicker and more reliable option

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    1. Haters gonna hate

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    2. Zaista trebaju nabaviti barem dva novija ATRa za ovu sezonu. Novca od prikupljenih sredstava na trzistu imaju.

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    3. Imaju novaca? Nazdravlje!

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  14. 'Our four-weekly service will provide business and leisure travellers with multiple travel options..'

    Congratulations on introducing VCE but this statement is utter nonsense. With a four weekly split schedule there isn't much flexibility.

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  15. interesting & makes sense.

    the part i don't get is this one

    "Each airline [Etihad Partners] is focusing on core networks now, then we’ll look for incremental opportunities"

    what are core networks for partners? vital, best performing routes? best connections through BEG? is that somehow consequently (incremental?) opening JU network to these kind of routes?

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    1. O&D heavy routes.

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    2. if there is a lot of serbian diaspora, plus tourism, that means this is P2P route. i don't see how and why he connects this with other partners.

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  16. Italy has always been a bit of an odd market from Serbia. Alitalia and Air Serbia do well on their flights but 3 low cost airlines failed: Wizz and easy jet between Belgrade and Rome and Easy jet and air one between Belgrade and Milan.

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    1. Yeah interesting that LCC can't seem to succeed on these routes. Wonder why.

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    2. I flew U2 to FCO in AUG14 with around 80€ return fare, and to MXP in JAN15 with 42€ return. I don't know why all of them failed, specially with a LCC war in FCO/CIA. However, while JU and AZ flew two or three times a day, U2 flew to FCO only 3pw I think, and 2pw to MXP. With that ratio of LCC to legacy flights, I think any LCC would be unsustainable.

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    3. It could also be that easyJet's brand recognition in Serbia was rather low back then. Given their success on the GVA-BEG route maybe it will make it easier for them to launch additional destinations in the future.

      There are still a few cities out there that could be served by them, Berlin being one of them.

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    4. Ne lupetaj Nemjee i ne izmisljaj nek lepo baziraju avion na Surcin imaju da se ubiju od posla. Ja sam leteo dva puta u Milano jednom sa Jatom jednom sa Airone. Oba puta su avioni bili priicno prazni. Ima putnika kada je neki sajam inace je Milano prilicno ruzna grad osim malo oko Duomo Srba ima tamo jako malo. Cesto sam leteo preko Malpense u USA, ali to sa Malevom pa klacanje do Beograda.

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    5. Извини што лупетам, ипак си ти летео читава два пута између Милана и Београда.#respect

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    6. Milano je takođe, potpuno irelevantno, ekonomski i finansijski centar Italije, ubedljivo najvećeg spoljnotrgovinskog partnera Srbije.

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    7. Aman vas ni Saopaola Intesa ni Unikredit ne salju svoje zaposlene sa Izijem. Cak i Alitalia i AS nemaju previse putnika.

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    8. Pa da, AZ je bas zato sto nema putnika povecala Beograd sa E75 na A320/321.

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    9. Ti ne primecujes da im se balkanska mreza raspada?

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    10. Balkanska se raspada ali im BEG jaca. Duh

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  17. The turnaround time is quite short.

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    1. 35 minutes. I think it's enough for an ATR.

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    2. no way. As most of the time flights leave Beg with a small delay so there will be no time whatsoever to compensate. Another point is to consider that Italians are not go getters and will not rush too much to get the turnaround in 35 min. Expect delays both ways!

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    3. But in 1h55 flying time there is a large time cushion - even an ATR will be in VCE in max. 1h30 or less!

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  18. Will Alitalia and Etihad codeshare on these flights?

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    1. Very likely

      "We have established a solid presence in the Italian market and will work with our tourism and trade partners, including Alitalia and Etihad Airways, to make the new service a success"

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    2. With Alitalia losing 1.5m Euro a day and forthcoming strikes I'm guessing AZ won't be around much no longer - so yes to codeshares a virtual airline.
      EY is in a dire financial situation having invested in loss making airlines and now trying to find a solution.
      Full credit for giving it a go

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  19. How do these flights fit into their waves? will they be able to get some connecting traffic?

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  20. Transfer times to AUH are 35 minutes long in the morning for EY72 and 1 hour in evening for JU800. So yes, I'd say this is an AUH feeder route. But I think it's a good move for EY; instead of launching a 332 to VCE, they will fed 320 through BEG and 320 direct VCE-AUH.

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    1. You could always fly direct from Venice to the MId East direct on EK or QR and bypass a nostalgic joy flight on an ancient junket?

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    2. From what I know, the shortest transfer time that ASL is selling its tickets is 40 minutes, which is quite weird having in mind the size of BEG. ( I know someone will say it's because of the delays lol) Does anyone know why JU 800 doesn't depart 15 minutes later so it can also have some pax coming from BRU, CDG, CPH???

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    3. Actually, the minimum transfer time in Belgrade is 45 minutes which is beyond ridiculous when you take into consideration the size of the airport and that you can transfer in WAW, MUC and VIE in 25 minutes.

      Austrian sells BEG-VIE-LAX with a connecting time of only 35 minutes.

      That said, Air Serbia does have a few exceptions and it does sell some special connections which are shorter than 45 minutes.

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    4. If we disregard AUH for the morning, the next flight with JU flight number is to SVO on Aeroflot, with connection time of 1h 40min. I highly doubt that this flight is for p2p pax only, but we'll see.

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    5. Hey Nemjee, could you please tell me what the exceptions are? I didn't know for it...

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    6. I was thinking only on ASL transit times at BEG actually :)

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    7. ASL is selling tickets with 40 min transfer time at BEG (e.g. AMS-BEY on Sundays) but as far as I know there are no examples of 35 minutes transfer time at BEG

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    8. Anon 10.52

      I can't remember exactly but i Know that some time ago flights from DUS and CDG with some short connecting times were the exception. However, it's nothing too spectacular, they were 40 minutes in stead of 45.

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  21. OT: Does anyone know what's the pax structure on JU flights to JFK? Transit pax come from where? What's p2p - transfer pax ratio? I've been flying to CDG and CPH lately few times, vast majority were transiting to TLV and BEY... do this routes perform well?

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    1. TLV and BEY are known for many JU transfer pax.

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    2. Well TLV and BEY are not so good as TGD, TIV, Tirana and SKP. Those pax are always 70% of total pax.

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    3. Regarding BEG-JFK transfers, havnt got proper data but their have been images around, especially their Instagram showing pax transferring from KBP, TLV, LJU and a few more.

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  22. Good morning guys and first of all I am not any kind of a hater,just because many of you are talking about cutting frequencies in air serbia timetable can anybody inform me if this is sure and what are those destinations? Thanks.

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  23. This route could easily be daily or double-daily.

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    1. Aerologic they can not even support double daily to ZAG and LJU and will cut them to 10 pw, so I don't thing it can be "easily" double daily. One thing is wish, and totally other is reality.

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    2. Where did you get that from? Flights are double daily in the system.

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    3. He got them from a wishlist of an anonymous poster on this blog.

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    4. ZAG is not VCE.

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    5. It is not. ZAG has much more potential passengers from BEG then VCE

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    6. Cause there's nowhere else to fly out of BEG?

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    7. Are you seriously comparing ZAG to Venice??!

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    8. Venice has incomparably higher transfer potential from BEG than ZAG.

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    9. transfer potential to where? VCE is a much better connected airport then ZAG

      (I dont want to mention what will happen if Wizzair opens Treviso)

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    10. Venice 18 mil. tourits
      Croatia 16 mil. tourists

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    11. What to compare so? Most tourists do not sleep in Venice, bite and flee! Have you ever been in Venice? The main area for serbian workers is Friuli-Trieste. Only in Trieste some 10.000 serbs live there and the previous air-connection between Belgrade and Trieste was not sustainable. The passenger structure should be: diaspora, tourism, business travellers and flight transit. Air Serbia cannot take into account only hubs or diaspora as its network is still rather limited and only important in ex-Yugo. Beyond its former border they encounter much stronger competition.

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  24. Air Serbia will terminate flights to Abu Dhabi JU800 and EY will fly to BEG daily with widebody aircraft.

    This will be around june.

    Thats actually pretty good move by Air Serbia, cause they can use wisely that aircraft.

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    Replies
    1. Use wisely by terminating Kiev, Warsaw, Istanbul and what not else?

      Delete
    2. I heard this also but find it hard to believe. While commercially it makes sense, downgrading AUH to a single daily service (widebody or not) leaves it overly exposed to its competitors in DOH and DXB.

      Delete
    3. Nema sanse... JU800 ce biti poslednji let koji ce biti ukinut!

      Delete
    4. I don't see DXB as competition to AUH with 4 weekly of fly Dubai

      Delete
    5. I'm skeptical about this. EY could do with an equipment boost in the summer to BEG as those flights are always full.

      The only advantage I see in this is if JU needed the aircraft to open a new destination in the east ie: Teheran.

      AUH has the advantage of being double daily from the same partners.

      @ anonymous 1,41pm

      FZ could drop BEG and EK step in with daily B77W service, as seen in ZAG. EK has a lot of advantages over EY. However, yield would be terrible and EY has the better equipment over EK for these lower yielding destinations.

      Delete
    6. 'I don't see DXB as competition to AUH with 4 weekly of fly Dubai'

      Probably would not remain 4 weekly in that case...

      Delete
  25. OT
    Dolazak Emirates-a u ZAG veci projekat od Air Serbie? :-)))
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtvf6UVsV4s&feature=share

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jesi ti dobro?

      Delete
    2. Hvala na pitanju jesam.
      A ti, jesi pogledao video?

      Delete
    3. Otvaranje 1000 novih radnih mesta, obnova flote, uvodjenje 10 novih destinatcija, dovodjenje preko milion novih putnika, uvodjenje dugolinijskog saobracaja, obnova vezanih firmi poput keteringa, omogucavanje dostupnost preko 100 novih kodser destinacija, zarade milja na partnership kompanija... Svakako manji projekat od sedam nedeljnih letova iz Dubaija za Zagreb.

      Delete
    4. Zato sam i stavio smiley :-)
      Objasni to Purgeru

      Delete
    5. na 17'42" ko ne zeli da gleda ceo video

      Delete
    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    7. Hahahaha I know he tends to exaggerate but he has outdone himself now. Hilarious

      Delete
    8. Al ga je Alen ovde lupio za sve pare, neocekivano od njega.

      Delete
    9. Pa i nije bas, imao je on slicnih bisera tokom ovih godina. Meni je samo zao nije obrazlozio zasto je to tako.

      Delete
    10. Kada govori o budućnosti, g. Šćurić prvo dolazi do zaključaka, koji su u skladu sa njegovim ličnim željama i nadanjima, a onda se trudi da nađe argumente. Naopak pristup, pa otud i čudni rezultati.
      Pošto ljudi ovde vole oštre i samouverene postere, on ipak ovde uživa više slave i ugleda od mnogo realističnijih znalaca.

      Delete
    11. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM

      Ja sam rekao da je dolazak Emiratesa veci ISKORAK nego projekt Air Serbije. Air Serbija je bila rast i kvalitativni pomak vec postojeceg nacionalnog prijevoznika. Air Serbia nije nastala iz nule. Dobila je i putnike, i avione (koje jos uvijek koristi), i slotove, i radnike, i opremu Jata... Ona je bila iskorak, bitan napredak, to je neosporno ali dolazak Emiratesa kao njpozeljnije kompanije koja ce povuci i niz drugih kompanija i to bitno prije daleko vecih gradova koji jos nemaju Emirates, a trude ga dobit jest veci ISKORAK!

      Delete
    12. Purgeru,
      lepo ti je anon u 1.57 dao argumente koji su svi ISKORAK u poredjenju sa Jatom. I to je sve manje nego jedna dnevna linija za DXB?
      ZAG nije imao putnike dok nije dosao EK? Naravno da je imao i da ima. Niti je EK stvorio ZAG niti ce kako ti kazes iskorak moci da se meri sa onim sto je uradjeno u JU od dolaska EY.
      Epic fail

      Delete
    13. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 23, 2017 at 12:09 AM

      Ja sam svoje argumente eleborirao kroz 40-tak kartica teksta:

      http://tangosix.rs/2017/17/01/zagrebacki-aerodrom-se-vraca-na-scenu-zbog-cega-je-dolazak-emiratesa-toliko-bitan/

      Ako imate volju, a Vi ih čitajte. Ako nemate, a bože moj, uvijek možete izbacivati stavove iz rukava.

      Delete
    14. Iskorak iz Jata u Er Srbiju nam je doneo 1.000.000 dodatnih putnika za godinu dana i zaposlio preko 1000 mladih ljudi. Da li stvarno hoces da kazes da ce EK nadmasiti sve ovo? Cisto sumnjam.

      Delete
    15. Pustite Alena na miru. EK je značajan jer predstavlja početak velikih stvari za ZAG i općenito promet, turizam, ulaganje u Hrv i regiji. Sve je jasno napisao i rekao. Učinci EK su dugoročni i multiplicirajući. Bit će loš lijepih vijesti. A sljedeća umjereno dobra dolazi bilo kada od sutra pa kroz idućih u dana. Stay tunned ;)

      Delete
    16. "Ja sam u jednom svom tekstu dokazao".. fenomenalno.
      Alene, kakav će iskorak biti dolazak EK u Beograd?

      Delete
    17. Verovatno ce ti reci nikakav

      Delete
    18. Ne, nečemo pustiti Alena na miru jer odvalio je povijesnu glupost koja če ostati zabilježena u spisima. Kada se takvo što uradi tada se mudro šuti i ne pokušava se svadjom braniti neobranjivo. Pa če ljudi možda i zaboraviti. Ovako kako Alen radi, pomoči če im da nikada ne zaborave.

      Delete
    19. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 23, 2017 at 8:54 AM

      Novih putnika
      1.000.000 Air Serbia
      250.000 Emirates

      1000 novih radnih mjesta
      - no o količini zaposlenih u Air Srbiji spram broja putnika koja je neposoredivo veća spram ostalih kompanija sam već pisao

      Obnova flote - pa bilo je i vrijeme, konačno to nije komparativno

      10 novih linija i 100 code share Air Serbia
      141 top destinacija kao svakodnevna konekcija Emirates

      + Emirates
      - globalan brend neupsorediv sa Air Serbijom globalno nepoznatom kompanijom
      - brend koji sam po sebi akumulira putnike, dok Air Serbia zbog nepoznatosti i "egzotičnosti" to svakako nije (da izbjegnemo svaku diskusiju u svjetskim okvirima "egzotična" je i Croatia, Montenegro...)
      - brend koji će biti motor dovođenja ostalih kompanija u Zagreb

      Naravno da bi dolazak Emiratesa u Beograd bio ogroman iskorak. O tome sam pisao prije par mjeseci:

      http://tangosix.rs/2016/22/11/kuda-bi-trebao-ici-beogradski-aerodrom/

      Delete
    20. Iako je EK veća kompanija od EY/QR (uključit ću i FZ), ne možemo se ponašati kao da ova tržišta nisu imala nikakvu pokrivenost i prije EK. EK ju svakako povećava, ali doista ne možemo reći da startamo od nule. QR u ZAG te EY/QR u BEG su ipak već podosta toga stvorili. Ne pretjerujmo sa EK, nije pretvorio noć u dan.

      Delete
    21. Dakle 4 puta vise putnika...Verovatno "beznacajno".

      Cak i ako je broj novo zaposlenih veci nego sto treba biti sigurno je da je broj opravdanih novootvorenih radnih mesta zbog Air Serbie daleko veci nego sto ce to uzrokovati dolazak EK u ZAG.

      Obnova flote - "pa bilo je i vrijeme". Kakav argument! Svi znamo da Jat Airways nikad ne bi mogao da dobaci u obnovi flote dalje od iznajmljivanja losih bugarskih B733 a Air Serbia danas ima pored A319, A320 i A332 sa narudzbinom A320neo. E to je iskorak Purgeru!
      Da ne pominjemo otvaranje linije za SAD, FF program, doprinos srpskoj ekonomiji, znacajno poboljsanje usluge i jos mnogo toga.
      Jeste Emirates globalan brend ali nece taj brend doneti 1.000.000 novih putnika koliko god bio prepoznatljiv.
      Ne zaboravi da je Air Serbia kompanija stvorena na ex yu prostoru za potrebe jedne siromasne drzave Balkana i da samim tim ne moze globalno da se poredi sa Emirates ali nije Emirates dosao u ZAG da bude domaca avio kompanija pa da se prica o ISKORAKU vec jos jedna od MEB3 koja leti za aerodrom u ex yu.

      Delete
    22. Nevjerojatan čovjek. Ne samo da inzistira na daljoj svadji več glupost koju je odvalio brani tako što stvari predstavlja kao da je Emirates odlučio preseliti svoje operacije u Hrvatsku a ne otvoriti jednu liniju do tamo.

      Delete
    23. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 23, 2017 at 9:30 AM

      Anonymous 9:02
      Nitko ne govori da se kreće od nule, ali to jest dolazak nove kompanije, globalno enormno jake, najpoželjnije kompanije. Air Serbije je samo nastavak Jata. Daleko bolji nastavak.

      Anonymous 9:10
      Naravno da nije beznačajno, pa gdje ste to pročitali da sam ja rekao beznačajno. Ali bogami ni četvrt milijuna nije beznačano. Ali u kontekstu svih ostalih benefita Emiratesa mislim da je jasno zašto taj iskorak smatram jačim.

      Broj zaposlenih sam po sebi ne znači ništa. On je možebitno dobar za gospodarstvo Srbije, ali ako je teret poreznih obveznika onda to i nije, već suprotno. Emirates će dovođenjem nekoliko desetaka tisuća novih turista (a što će se sigurno desiti) motorirati stotine novih radnih mjesta u turizmu, hotelijerstvu, ugostiteljstvu, taxi i bus prijevozima, suvenirnicama...

      Ne radi se o tome da obnova flote nije bitna, naravno da jest. Ali ona sama po sebi jest redovan i normalan proces svake kompanije, koji je Jat puno predugo prolongirao. I Jat je mogao uz investiciju države i subvencije obnoviti flotu na način da je uzeo avione u leasing. Nije neka mudrost uzeti avione u leasing. I to kompanije rade. U skorije vrijeme je to napravila i Montenegro, i Croatia, i Adria, i Trade Air. Zato to nije iskorak.

      Koji argument je ff program? On nije iskorak. On je, kao i flota, normalno poslovanje kompanije. A to što Jat prije nešto takvo nije imao to je druga priča. ff programe imaju i Adria, i Croatia. To nije iskorak, to je lovljenje priključka sa ostalima. Konačno i Emirates ima svoj ogroman ff program koji je velik benifit i novost na hrvatskom tržištu. A on je neusporediv sa onim Air Serbie/Etihada.

      Linija za SAD svakako jest velik iskorak, pa čak i nakon što se svela na svega tri leta tjedno kroz većinu godine. I ona je jedan od glavnih argumenata na strani Air Serbije. To nije sporno.

      Emirates neće donijeti milijun punika. Ali će privući niz drugih kompanija (svojim brendom) koje će donijeti stotine tisuća putnika godišnje. I neće donjeti prvenstveno konektirane putnike koji samo prolaze kroz Zagreb (kao što je to u Beogradu), već turiste koji će donjeti bitno veći novac Hrvatskoj i Zagrebu nego konektirani putnici Air Serbiji. I zato to i jest veći iskorak.

      Delete
    24. Ja sam anon 09:10
      Vasa tvrdnja da je dolazak EK u ZAG veci iskorak od pravljenja novog JU indirektno sugerise da je cifra od milion novih putnika manje vazna od jos uvek neprevezenih 250.000 od EK.

      Da bi se novih milion putnika moglo prevesti potrebno je da to neko odradi i to ne mora biti po defaultu na teret poreskih obveznika Srbije a takodje ne sme se zaboraviti ni doprinosi koje ti radnici ostavljaju drzavi Srbiji.

      Sto se tice putnika, nisu svih tih novih milion putnika tranzitni putnici vec jedan deo njih i ostaje u Srbiji i kao sto vi kazete ostavlja svoj novac u lokalnoj ekonomiji.

      Sto se tice Jat Airways vi izgleda namerno zaboravljate u kojoj je situaciji ta firma bila i zato me cudi vase pisanje o tome kako bi koja kompanija trebala da izgleda i kako da se ponasa. Jat je sve to mogao, zasto nije druga je stvar ali vi ovde govorite o ISKORAKU. Dakle, velicina iskoraka se meri stanjem u Jatu 2013 i stanjem u Air Serbiji 2016. Nebo i zemlja.
      ..." Emirates ima svoj ogroman ff program koji je velik benifit i novost na hrvatskom tržištu. A on je neusporediv sa onim Air Serbie/Etihada"...
      Uh kakvo nerazumevanje! Za putnike iz ZAG je daleko veci benefit FF koji ima OU u SA nego FF od EK jer se milje od EK mogu skupljati samo na njihovim letovima dok se SA milje mogu skupljati na svim OU linijama kao i na letovima LH, LO, OS itd.
      Tako je i za JU veliki argument novi ff program pogotovo ako ga nemate povezanog sa nekim od velikih svetskih igraca pa ga odjednom dobijete. OU ima FF jer je u kao i JP u SA , Jat nije to imao pa je dobio. To je iskorak, to privlaci putnike i to zadrzava putnike i to na SVIM svojim linijama iz BEG kao i na linijama EY i AZ. EK uvodi 1 (jednu!) liniju DXB-ZAG-DXB.
      I jos jednom pored svog odusevljenja dolaskom EK u ZAG trebalo bi da budete trezveni (ponavljam jos jednóm da nije EK dosao biti domaci avio prevoznik u ZAG) i da to ne proglasavete za projekat u ex yu okvirima veci od stvaranja avio kompanije koja bas u tim okvirima ima najveci broj prevezenih putnika.
      Najblaze receno deluje neozbiljno.

      Delete
    25. zapravo nije 250k novih putnika. trebalo bi tu oduzeti putnike koji su već leteli FZ, kao što je učinio kada je srbiji računao samo inkrementalni rast od 1mil.

      no dobro. EK je epski korak svakako. sada će oni silni arapi dolaziti sa kontejnerima punim novca i investirati, jer pre nisu imali kako. kompletna hrvatska nato misija od čak 180 vojnika će imati čime da se poveže, kao što piše u eminentnom članku, a procenjuje se da će još 15 hiljada mladih u hrvatskoj svakog dana moći da jede brend EK za doručak, ručak i večeru.

      Delete
    26. Da, EK će dovesti sve same nove putnike, sačuvaj bože da će neko od već postojećih putnika samo promeniti prevoznika. Svi će biti novi koji nikada ne bi videli Hrvatsku da se EK nije odlučio na najveći iskorak u istoriji avio industrije.

      A ove stotine hiljada putnika koje će preko svega toga doći jer će ih privući snaga EK brenda, to je nonsens kakav se čak ni političari ne bi usudili da izvale. Ali eto, imamo eksperta kome to nije problem.

      Delete
    27. Ma kojih 250 tisuća putnika čovječe, pa neće zbog EK svi kolektivno odustati od QR ili TK. Tržište prema Hrvatskoj raste, ali ne tom mjerom. ako EK nudi 350 sjedala dnevno u oba smjera, dakle 700 ukupno X 365 je 255500; ti dakle tvrdiš da će EK imati 98% load factor (evo, neka je i 90%)? Ono, za ozbiljno doista bacaš 250000 na EK koji projicira preko 95% godišnji load factor? Nemoj se ljutiti, ali prema ovoj računici, pretjeruješ u wide body stilu.Tj inzistiraš na pretjerivanju.

      Delete
    28. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 23, 2017 at 2:03 PM

      - niti sam ja rekao da je 180 vojnika bitna stvar (to je spomenuto usput među posljednjim od brojnih argumenata)

      - niti treba banalizirati i objašnjavati ff na ovom strukovnom forumu, da se ne vrijeđamo, može? Molim još jednom pročitajte što sam o tome napisao, ali sa razumijevanjem.

      - niti sam rekao da je svih milijun novih putnika Air Serbie tranfernih

      - niti sam rekao da će svi Emiratesovi putnici biti novi i da neće preuzeti putnike drugih kompanija, no da će dobar dio biti novih to sigurno i da će ta linija biti feedana iz drugih destinacija (SPU, DBV, SJJ, PUY, ZAD, OSI, pa i iz nekih europskih u određenim situacijama...) pa će to dodatno povečati broj putnika preko ZAG

      E sad ono što treba napraviti je još jednom sve pročitati, vidjeti u čemu je Air Serbija napravila veći iskorak nego što je Emiratesov u Zagrebu (a to je vidljivo iz mog jutarnjeg komentara), a što Emirates donosi Zagrebu što Air Serbija nije Beogradu. Staviti sve pluseva a jednu i drugu stranu i stvoriti zaključak. I u redu je da neki ljudi stvari vide drugačije.

      A ponavljanje argumenata u beskraj i izvrtanje riječi (gornji primjeri) nisu način komunikacije u kojoj bi ja sudjelovao. Hvala ne.

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    29. alene jedini koji ovde izvće reči i menja teze si ti i možda bi bilo bolje da nisi ni odgovorao na ovaj lapsus koji si napravio ili ne da bože čak i prihvatio to što si napravio grešku. umesto toga samo se još više ukopavaš, pa ako je tako onda neću ni dopustiti da praviš magarce od ljudi koji pišu ovde

      1. EK novi putnici
      a) citiram tebe "niti sam rekao da će svi Emiratesovi putnici biti novi..."

      ovo je sa članka na T6
      "Ukupno u godinu dana Emirates će ponuditi 265.720 sjedala na zagrebačkoj liniji, a uz prosječnu popunjenost od 79,6% koliko kompanija ima, za očekivati je dodatnih 212.000 Emiratesovih putnika iz Zagreba u idućih godinu dana."

      podvlačim reč dodatnih. nisu dodatni/novi. ni sedišta čak nisu nova jer je kao pripremu za EK FZ otkazao svoje letove, tako da su i putnici samo delom novi

      b) JU si računao inkrementalni rast od 1 mil u odnosu na JAT, dok za EK mašeš sa 250k koji zapravo nisu ni inkrementalni, već ceo broj koji je moguć bez oduzimanja onih koji su leteli FZ i koji sada lete drugim kompanijama. dakle, zašto si upoređivao cifre koje nisu iste postavljene. ili uzimaš cele ili samo inkrementalne. one se ne mešaju.

      2. ti nisi rekao ISKORAK, već si rekao STVAR, što zapravo znači da si mislio na ukupnu pojavu iliti projekat i onda se ovde igraš semantike. Čak sve i da si mislio na ISKORAK u krivu si, što su ti svi već dokazali, ali odbijaš prihvatiti.

      3. ovo za FF, NATO, brend... stvarno ne znam šta da ti kažem. meni je smešno da ideš po tim tezama, kao i cela ova rasprava i tvoje neprihvatanje.

      daleko više respekta bi bilo kada bi umeo priznati grešku. ovako se samo igraš analitike, iznosiš neozbiljne teze i onda ih još tvrdoglavo braniš

      Delete
    30. Purgeru, naprosto priznaj da si pretjerao, stvarno se samo dodatno ukopavaš. Svakome se desi da se zaleti, ali bogami ti ga baš ideš do balčaka sada.

      Delete
    31. Nije ni lijepo, niti pristojno, a ni profesionalno tako s visoka inzistirati na grešci koja realno vrijeđa zdrav razum. Nisu ti svi magarci a ti jedini rasni neshvaćeni 'analitičar'. Pazi, ima tu ljudi koji realno rade taj posao za život, a nisu hobisti....poslušaj ih ponekada, a mislim pogotovo sada. Brojke (koje ti tretiraš iz ne znam kojeg razloga kao čisto inkrementalne) i općenito rezoniranje sa EK ti opako ne štimaju. Uopće ne ulazim u tvoj stečeni kredibilitet na ovom forumu, ali sada ti klizi opako prema 0 metara nadmorske visine.

      Delete
    32. 'Ne radi se o tome da obnova flote nije bitna, naravno da jest. Ali ona sama po sebi jest redovan i normalan proces svake kompanije,'

      A zar dolazak nove avio-kompanije nije redovan, normalan proces svakog aerodroma? Zasto je linija DXB-ZAG ista veca senzacija od Er Srbijinog leta za Njujork?

      Delete
    33. ...a pritom, JU ce verovatno prevesti vise putnika za JFK nego EK iz ZAG za DXB

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    34. neće baš. ZAG-DXB će biti sa većom letelicom i 7pw, dok je BEG JFK sa manjom letelicom i recimo da će izaći na 4.5pw.

      prethodno pitanje stoji

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    35. I dalje sam uveren da ce prosecna popunjenost na liniji BEG-JFK biti znatno iznad EK-ovog leta iz ZAG za DXB.

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    36. Kataru je trebalo dve godine da napune A320 a sada ce EK preko noci da napuni B777

      Delete
    37. Ne razumeš, EK donosi svoj brend koji će istog trenutka da motiviše barem pola miliona ljudi da kupe kartu kod njih. Brzo će to da ode na A380 double daily.

      Delete
  26. Finally the codeshare between JU and KK.

    JU gets its code on all flights in the KK network (domestic and international).

    KK gets its code on selected flights in the JU network, JFK included.

    Further options include loyalty program cooperation and the common use of airport lounges.

    Looks very good! Especially because JU will now be able to reach a lot of cities in Turkey.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. http://www.exyuaviation.com/2017/02/air-serbia-and-atlasglobal-launch.html

      Delete
    2. Let's hope it don't end up like the exorbitant codeshares with Air China or Air Europa.

      Delete
    3. Yes, bravo Serbija for surrendering 100% of the Serbia-Turkey market to the Turks...

      Delete
    4. Not really ... coz they will now keep 100% of the profitable charter market and give up 100% of the loss making scheduled flying leaving it to the Turks to cut each other's throats for a share of the Serbia-Turkey market

      Rather smart move - Bravo Srbija

      Delete
    5. They are not leaving the market because it is unprofitable, they are leaving it because they couldn't make it profitable.

      Delete
  27. Svakako dobar odabir Destinacije posto ima dosta potencijala za O&D pputnika ali i dosta Transfernih.
    Nadam se da ce biti jos nekoliko novih Destinacija ove sezone.
    INN-NS

    ReplyDelete

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