Monday, February 27, 2017

Croatia Airlines to launch Bucharest and Helsinki


Croatia Airlines will commence services to the capitals of Romania and Finland this summer as part of its planned expansion from Zagreb Airport. Bucharest Henri Coanda Airport and the operator of Helsinki Airport, Finavia, confirmed to EX-YU Aviation News that the Croatian carrier will introduce flights this summer season, with tickets to go on sale this week. Croatia Airlines has never operated scheduled flights to the two cities and faces no direct competition on the two routes. The launch of flights to Helsinki will form part of the airline's push to extend its coverage in northern Europe, with plans to commence operations to Stockholm this summer as well. Interestingly, Air Croatia, a failed 2015 start-up, planned to introduce flights from Zagreb to Bucharest, Helsinki and Stockholm, however, the airline went out of business several weeks following its launch. Croatia Airlines has said it plans to unveil all of its new destinations for 2017 this week.

Bucharest has been identified as an unserved destination with great potential from Zagreb since 2007 when over 8.000 people travelled between the two cities. In 2009, the Romanian national carrier TAROM made plans to launch three weekly flights between the two cities using its ATR72 aircraft, however, the service never materialised. Furthermore, Croatia Airlines intended on introducing operations to Bucharest in 2011, but the onset of its restructuring program put an eastbound expansion on hold. The carrier has previously said, "At first, Eastern European countries within the European Union are our priority. At a later stage we intend to fly east outside of EU boundaries”.

Finland will become a new market for Croatia Airlines, where the carrier will attempt to tap into the growing tourism demand. Finnair itself has not ruled out introducing services to Zagreb and has eyed operations to the Croatian capital for some time. The Finnish carrier recently told EX-YU Aviation News, “The Croatian market serves as a great destination for Finnair customers from Northern Europe and Asia. We have also seen increasing numbers of passengers from Croatia using Finnair on their trips. Demand for Croatian destinations has been growing year by year and we have increased our flights to the area consequently”. Currently, Finnair operates services from Helsinki to Dubrovnik, Pula and Split on a seasonal summer basis.

241 comments:

  1. Great additions!
    Bucharest at least must stay year round.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. On the Zag airport wiki page all these new flights are listed as seasonal

      Delete
    2. If it is to stay all year it is probably going to be decided during the Summer season.

      Delete
  2. Interesting destinations. Bucharest is overdue. Might hit JU's loads to Zagreb a bit because their biggest transfer passengers from/to Zagreb were from/to Bucharest.

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    Replies
    1. I think JU will fight back with cheap fares. They have two advantages compared to OU:

      1. they operate both legs with an Atr
      2. they operate daily in winter and double daily in summer.

      Delete
    2. Yes, Bucharest-Croatia market was long overdue.
      JU was the best option for travel between the two countries.

      Delete
    3. good move then!

      Delete
    4. ...or it is OU that will find it very hard to compete against double-daily JU?

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    5. I wouldn't call operating with an ATR an advantage? It's old, unreliable, slow and loathed by pax.

      Delete
    6. Why choose a connection and make your total travel time 4-5 or more hours to go to Bucharest when you can now fly direct in under an hour?

      Delete
    7. Big hit to JU. It is not just about Zagreb, but there will be lot of passengers from Split, Dubrovnik, Pula, Sarajevo, Skopje, Banja Luka and Slovenia to use that route instead of Air Serbia 1stop.

      Delete
    8. Lol, exactly
      JU does not fly directly. You have a stopover...on a short flight, meaning that JU will probably be more expensive as well.
      And JU is not double daily, ZAG is being scalled back 10pw cause of lowish LF and Venice

      Delete
    9. Atr is extremely economical on such short flights. They can undercut OU and still make money.
      For example, JU breaks-even with just 7 passengers on its Atr to TGD.

      Also, the question remains, will OU fly on a seasonal basis? How cheap will they be? What kind of schedule will they offer? Will they code-share with RO?

      Delete
    10. You are forgetting someone else who is going to be extremely hurt, even more so than Air Serbia... Austrian Airlines. Those ZAG-VIE flights are not doing as great as there is too much capacity.

      Delete
    11. LOL, someone will fly SKP-OTP via ZAG? :D :D :D As well as driving from Slovenia and not take a flight from LJU, sure honey. Must have made my day...

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    12. Anon 9.23 - if the ATR is so economical and breaks even even at 7 pax why didn't JU run 10 x daily flights to IST on this dream machine?

      Delete
    13. Not really - as we have a huge asian market that will fill up those seats on VIE-ZAG route. There is a huge demand for travel to Croatia, and any added capacity, whether that be in forms of new destinations or adding capacity on the existing destinations is good and WILL work, given that Croatia is in demand. Croatia does not have to "steal" pax and rely on transfers in order to fill the seats.

      Delete
    14. JU breaks-even with just 7 passengers on its Atr to TGD???

      med i mleko znaci

      Delete
    15. Anon 09.30

      Because the Atr could have been used elsewhere? As in on a shorter flight where more money could have been made?

      Petar

      So does it mean that Croatia will not 'steal' any passengers from JU either?

      Delete
    16. The good thing that may come out of these flights is the fact that OS will finally make their rates more competitive on VIE-ZAG-VIE route. They have enjoyed a monopoly in serving the eastern europe and scandinavia for toooo long.

      Delete
    17. "Not really - as we have a huge asian market that will fill up those seats on VIE-ZAG route." HUGE Asian market, you mean the one EK is supposed to capture?

      Delete
    18. Anonymous at 9:23 AM
      How on earth will JU make money flying someone in two flights plus handling in BEG with one direct flight lasting just one hour.
      Sure it can dump fares like it was doing in 2014 but to what end?
      Subsidizing foreign nationals journeys just to have the pleasure to welcome them in BEG?
      Makes zero business sense.

      Delete
    19. So Austraian should stop selling ZAG-VIE-OTP as soon as possible?

      Delete
    20. Let's wait for the frequencies to judge how OU can be competitive on this route.

      Delete
    21. If they launch, two-three weekly on a seasonal basis then neither JU nor OS will be affected by this. They will not capture any business traffic.

      Also, don't forget that JU's brand in Romania is much stronger than OU's. Best case scenario is for OU to carry tourist groups.

      Delete
    22. @Anonymous 9:45 AM
      Why should they?
      They can continue offering the option for Star Alliance frequent flyers who want to use OS.
      ASL can do the same but it does not have the *A FF base.
      So just lowering fares is the only option for getting the price conscious flyers.

      Delete
    23. And how many people will spend an additional €100 to fly via VIE on OU-OS for 250 miles per segment?

      Delete
    24. Right...so what the huge advantage of flying one way direct and back with a stop in Vienna vs. stop both ways in Belgrade?

      It doesn't change much from the currenty situation.

      Delete
    25. Anon 9:57
      you are asking what is the advantage of flying someplace direct instead of connecting?
      LOL!

      Delete
    26. Connecting flights through places like VIE or BEG might add a few more travelling hours but at the same time they provide flexibility that OU with its frequencies can't.
      Contrary to popular belief, many passengers don't want to stay an extra day just because there aren't more direct flights.

      Delete
    27. Anonymous February 27, 2017 at 9:56 AM
      How do you know that OS will ask for 100€ more for the same class fares?
      Are you working in the OS revenue and planning department?
      Thanks for any info.

      Delete
    28. As a frequent traveller, I'd rather use a direct route, even if the price of a ticket is a bit more expensive!

      Delete
    29. Anon 10:02 how exactly do you know that OU will fly with 2-3 frequencies.
      JU is flying once a day to OTP.
      With 4-5 weekly frequencies I believe flying directly will make most people chose OU in this route.

      Delete
    30. Yes, I am working in the revenue department. OS can't compete with airlines with lower costs because it's based in Austria and because VIE is among the most expensive airport in Europe.

      €100 per passenger doesn't have teh same value for OS and let's say LO.

      Delete
    31. Anonymous February 27, 2017 at 10:06 AM
      +1
      Also JU on certain days offers a total travel time of 18 hours between OTP and ZAG!
      I don't think ANY businessman will chose that when they can fly directly in one hour.

      Delete
    32. Anon 10.06

      Because if they can barely make PRG four weekly then OTP will most likely be three weekly. Prague is a much, much bigger route.

      Also, you can't compare Belgrade and Zagreb. Belgrade is a much bigger market and it has been linked with Bucharest for eight years now. Even Tarom has 8 weekly flights.

      Delete
    33. @Anon 10:07 AM
      That is good news for OU then.

      Delete
    34. Of course, you can see that the LH-OU relationship is getting more and more strained. LH is shifting most of its passengers from OU onto their own flights.

      OU is reacting, fighting back in order to ensure a way to survive.

      Delete
    35. Anonymous February 27, 2017 at 10:12 AM
      Tarom's flights will not help JU's schedule which has very long connections in BEG.

      Also BIE is right between PRG and ZAG. That helps OS connections a lot.
      OTP and ZEG are not helped by VIE location as much.
      It is simple geography.

      Delete
    36. BEG has good location for connecting ZAG with OTP but the scheduling times and the very long connections make it non-competitive.
      Spending the whole night in N.Tesla or arriving in Bucharest at three in the morning after a 15 hour trip is awful.

      Delete
    37. Has it crossed your mind that maybe, just maybe, RO and JU had other destinations in mind besides ZAG when they were signing their code-share?
      Tarom's evening schedule fits perfectly into JU's afternoon wave and both of their flights offer convenient connections to many destinations, including LHR.

      Delete
    38. Most of the ZAG-OTP flights have wait between 1 and 2 hours in BEG, so what are you talking about?

      If VIE is better positionned than BEG to serve ZAG-OTP then kill me.

      http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=zag-beg-otp%0D%0Azag-vie-otp&MS=wls&DU=mi

      It's almost 200 miles extra, why would anyone want that?

      Delete
    39. You make it sound as if 18 hours is the average connection in BEG which is not the case. It's only once or twice per week when there is no overlap between the two schedules.

      JU has revised its OTP schedule so it will have 6 night departures and 3 afternoon ones. It goes to show that Zagreb was not their priority but Europe was.

      Delete
    40. @Anonymous at 10:26 AM

      Try booking a flight from OTP to ZAG by combining both RO and JU flights from the Air Serbia website! :D
      you can try from Tarom's website too! LOL!

      Delete
    41. @Anonymous at 10:31 AM
      Nobody said that VIE is better positioned than BEG to serve ZAG-OTP. What are you talking about?
      The flights of JU that offer a total travel time of 5 hours between ZAG and OTP are about 4 a week. The rest take too long. Longer than driving!
      So OU with even 4 direct flights a week is a better option.

      Delete
    42. Anon 10.33

      Can you re-read his comment once again before commenting? He clearly said that ZAG was not their priority. Just like it wasn't RO's given that they gave up on launching their own flights.

      Delete
    43. Anonymous February 27, 2017 at 10:32 AM

      So since the scheduling times from OTP are not aimed towards ZAG connections but north and western European ones instead OU will offer the most convenient choice between OTP and ZAG.
      Thank you for finally admitting it.

      Delete
    44. Anon 10:37
      Neither JU nor RO give you the option of combining their flights to get better connecting times between ZAG and OTP.
      Check their websites.
      What kind of codeshare agreement is that?

      Delete
    45. Air Serbia's connectivity:

      --3--67
      ZAG-BEG-OTP 10.05-15.10
      Total: 04.05

      1-34567
      ZAG-BEG-OTP 21.00-02.55
      Total: 04.55

      Air Serbia will offer 9 weekly connections between Zagreb and Bucharest.

      Delete
    46. 10.03

      Once again, he never said that the code-share was for Zagreb, it's for the rest of Europe as in Paris, Amsterdam...

      Delete
    47. Let me also add return:

      12-4567
      OTP-BEG-ZAG 05.10-08.50
      Total: 04.40

      --3--67
      OTP-BEG-ZAG 15.40-19.35
      Total: 04.55

      Air Serbia's schedule, especially for passengers originating their journey in Bucharest is really good!
      OU will really need to step up its game here.

      Delete
    48. Why travel for so long when direct Airbus flight is available?
      Two longish ATR flights on the same day?

      Delete
    49. Last anon,

      Because OU will send its Q400 or maybe even the archaic F100 and JU will offer 9 weekly flights with relatively good times.

      Delete
    50. Interesting schedule. Seems like JU is aiming at Romania as the major source of bookings and not Zagreb.

      Delete
    51. 10:46

      Once again, we are discussing OTP-ZAG flights. So why did he mention Tarom's schedule to BEG since it doesn't help with connections between OTP and ZAG.

      Delete
    52. You mean Bucharest vs. Zagreb which is a lot important city.

      Delete
    53. Anon 10:51
      OU's F100 is a JET aircraft!
      JU's ATR fleet is the very definition of archaic. And you expect passengers to choose two flights with them over a direct jet flight?
      JU will need to offer much lower price.

      Delete
    54. The main point of origin.

      Delete
    55. Anonymous at 10:49 AM

      Passengers do not just go from OTP to ZAG unless ofcourse they are migrating for good there. :)
      They want to return too so they look at the whole schedule.
      And on certain days it is a lot faster to drive instead of taking the JU connection ZAG-BEG-OTP.

      Delete
    56. Anonymous February 27, 2017 at 10:49 AM
      What is Air Serbia's schedule for passengers originating their journey in Zagreb?

      Delete
    57. Anon 10.58

      JU has 9 weekly connections with really good times. Check again:

      --3--67
      ZAG-BEG-OTP 10.05-15.10
      Total: 04.05

      1-34567
      ZAG-BEG-OTP 21.00-02.55
      Total: 04.55

      ----------------------
      12-4567
      OTP-BEG-ZAG 05.10-08.50
      Total: 04.40

      --3--67
      OTP-BEG-ZAG 15.40-19.35
      Total: 04.55

      Delete
    58. Anon 11:01

      JU has just 3 weekly connections with good times.
      --3--67
      The rest arrive at OTP at 2:55AM! Not good at all.
      Especially for frequent travelers.

      Delete
    59. Thank you
      Anonymous February 27, 2017 at 11:01 AM

      Is it possible for Air Serbia to change some of the middle of the night flight times to make connections better?

      Delete
    60. So to recap everything Croatia airlines will have to make the scheduling times better than Air Serbia for this route. Maybe early morning or noon flight.
      Any news on when they will announce details?

      Delete
    61. It's actually really good for frequent fliers because it gives them a whole day in ZAG. They can go for a business lunch or a late evening before returning to Bucharest.

      Don't forget, JU is not relying on Croatian sales but the Bucharest ones.

      Also, half of Wizz Air's flights arrive at 02.45 to OTP. I am sure Romanians won't mind JU's.

      Delete
    62. Frequent travelers actually work and morning arrival suits them. As said earlier, the main city here is Bucharest, not Zagreb and from Bucharest you reach Zagreb at 09AM which is a very good time. You can't have the two both ways, you need to give priority.

      Delete
    63. Anon 11.05

      As already mentioned, for people in Bucharest this is a convenient schedule as it gives them a whole day in Zagreb.

      Delete
    64. Anon 11:09 2:55 AM arrival is not morning arrival.
      it is horrible for a business person who would need to pay for an extra hotel night .

      Delete
    65. Business passengers originate in Romania so he goes home, not to a hotel room.

      Delete
    66. Business passengers wherever they originate would prefer a direct flight at normal hours that lasts only one hour than a 5 hour connection that brings them to OTP at 2:55 AM.

      Delete
    67. Romanians are well used to arriving in the middle of the night. Here are last night's arrivals:

      00.50 - Wizz Air - Turin - A320
      01.10 - Blue Air - Tel Aviv - B738
      01.20 - LOT- Warsaw - E70
      01.20 - Lufthansa - Munich - A320
      01.30 - Wizz Air - Barcelona - A321
      01.35 - Turkish Airlines - IST - B738
      01.35 - Wizz Air- Tenerife - A320
      01.55 - Wizz Air - Glasgow - A320
      02.45 - Wizz Air - London - A321
      02.45 - Wizz Air - Madrid - A321
      02.50 - Air Serbia - Belgrade - AT7
      02.55 - Wizz Air - Gatwick - A321

      Delete
    68. Anon 11.23

      Business passengers want connectivity which optimizes their efficiency. Arriving at 02.50 with JU is better than spending another night at a ZAG hotel and arriving the next day at 10.00. At least with JU he can be back in the office at 09.00

      Delete
    69. Without knowing OU's schedule we can not judge what is more convenient for business passengers.
      Also Anons 11:26 post shows that only low costs arrive after midnight and they use A320s.
      JU will be arriving later than most and after two ATR flights. Brutal for someone who needs to be at the office in the morning.

      Delete
    70. LOT, Lufthansa and Turkish Airlines are not lowcost carriers.

      Delete
    71. LOT, Lufthansa and Turkish do not arrive in Bucharest at three in the morning.
      Nor do they arrive with an ATR either.

      Delete
    72. You are all becoming so B O R I N G with this ZAG to BUCHAREST via BEG matter please stop.

      Delete
    73. Air Serbia had on average 50 passengers this winter to OTP so I guess people don't mind arriving on the Atr at 03.00 :)

      Delete
    74. The length of this thread is disproportionate to its usefulness.

      Delete
    75. Anon 12:27 how many of those passengers were connecting from ZAG?
      Now these passengers will have a much more fast and easy option to fly directly.

      Delete
    76. This penis measuring between Serbs and Croats we've had for the past weeks is really annoying.

      Delete
    77. @Anon at 1:58 PM
      Exactly, that is what I have been saying all along.

      Delete
    78. Yeah, OU's three weekly Q400 flight will obliterate JU's nine weekly connectivity between BEG and ZAG. Ouch...

      Delete
    79. Anonymous February 27, 2017 at 2:37 PM
      What are you talking about?
      OU's direct ZAG_OTP flights will only obliterate most of JU's connecting traffic between ZAG and OTP (all flights with ATRs) through BEG.
      Stop creating straw man arguments if reality does not agree with you.

      Delete
    80. Why are you guys only mentioning JU? There is also OS via VIE and LH via MUC.

      Your hate for Serbia and it's national carrying is despicable.

      Delete
    81. Anonymous 3:15 the only one "hating" here is you.
      You can not compare JU and LH or OS. It is dumb.
      Also neither OS nor LH connect Bucharest with Zagreb with ATRs.

      Delete
    82. No, you are right they don't use Atrs... they use Airbuses, CRJs and Embraers which are less economical and passengers connect at MUC and VIE which are far more expensive than BEG.

      haha

      Delete
    83. Yes, horrible aircraft that passengers just so happen to prefer compared with 25 year old ATRs!
      They are also going to close down their hubs because they can not compete with JU and BEG!
      LOL!
      Some people are truly delusional.

      Delete
    84. The only delusional people on here are those who are overestimating the importance of ZAG, an airport that doesn't even handle 3 million passengers.

      Delete
    85. The only people with delusions of grander here are people with think JU's 25 year old ATRs can compete not only with direct flights by better aircraft.
      Keep on hating on ZAG, it looks better and better every day!

      Delete
  3. Any figures how currently most of the ZAG-OTP pax fly, via BEG or VIE or...?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Just a small correction, Finland is not in Scandinavia, it's in the Nordic region.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Just reminded me about Air Croatia out of nowhere. Since they were planning those destinations too it is possible that statistically they are the most undeserved destinations with the most passengers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. +1
      OTP in particular is big market to and from Croatia.

      Delete
  6. Can we expect an official announcement of all the new routes today?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Like it, finally some moves from OU!

    ReplyDelete
  8. So Purger had good information again.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Finally Scandinavia
    Like holy shit, took forever

    ReplyDelete
  10. Reliable information is that Croatia Airlines will announce a total of 4 new destinations out of Zagreb. Stay tunned ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The other two will be Stockholm and Oslo.

      Delete
    2. As was mentioned on another forum..they will lease aircraft for this expansion ?

      Delete
    3. Thanks, Petar, but Purger already announced it, Oslo and Stockholm are new destinations.

      Delete
    4. Ma moglo se i naslutiti, sve opcije su logične. Kao i to da će sljedeće destinacije vjerojatno biti Dublin i Sofija

      Delete
    5. Do we know the frequencies?

      Delete
    6. Purger was not the first. It's not like he is the only well informed guy. Petar knew it too. And another guy from another forum.

      Delete
    7. Petar can you confirm the 4 new routes?

      Delete
    8. Purger was the first to announce them!

      Delete
    9. Yes I can confirm OSL and ARN.

      Delete
    10. Great news. Go OU!

      Delete
    11. Yes, the first to announce them. The other two wanted to keep it secret till the very end.

      Delete
    12. Yes. OTP,HEL,ARN & OSL.
      Ihve known this info for over 2 weeks but chose to keep my mouth shut. The only reason I am speaking now before the official announcement from OU is because everyone knows the info. Thanks to Purger. Its not a biggy though...will be public very soon...

      Delete
    13. Thanks Petar :)

      Delete
    14. Petar, what planes will they use on these routes?

      Delete
  11. The English language version of the Croatia Airlines Wikipedia page lists Dublin, Moscow, Oslo and Stockholm as future destinations. That said, it is for Croatia Airlines generally, and not necessarily connecting to Zagreb.

    Doesn't actually mention Bucharest or Helsinki, so maybe that wiki update was based on an older article, and some speculation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's based on what Kucko said last year about routes they are considering. They have changed their plans since then.

      Delete
    2. the Sofia route will be the ball breaker with a touch of spice, just watch

      Delete
  12. Finally OTP!
    I'm really happy with their choice. Long time I was speaking about OTP and SOF. Let's hope that next year we will have SOF as well.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Everybody seems to be missing the crucial question, what are the frequencies?

    ReplyDelete
  14. As already mentioned before ARN is good choice, OSL also acceptable but not as good as ARN, OTP is totally unknown to OU and it is obvious OU wish on this route to beat mostly JU.

    It is sure that JU will still offer better connectivity with decreased prices, but OU will surely have some passengers. If it is going to be enough for financially positive results (taking in consideration OU will fly with A319 which has higher break-even) remains to be seen. I personally believe this route will be cancelled after some time, but still wish OU success.
    HEL is wrong choice and no reason like touristic, business or EU membership can justify this route.
    Dublin would be much better destination than HEL

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How do you know this will be A319 route? It will be Q400.

      Delete
    2. And would you think it will be cancelled? Last year everyone was predicting LED won't survive after summer season, but they are flying there this summer season again.

      Delete
    3. One Q400 flight is better than one ATR flight.
      Imagine two ATR flights...

      Delete
    4. Hmm yeah you mean like OK outperformed OU with their Atr on the ZAG-PRG route?

      Delete
    5. Anon 11:13
      From a passenger perceptive one Q400 flight is more comfortable-faster than 1 ATR flight. let alone two!
      PRG-ZAG ATR flight is direct.
      OU on the ZAG_OTP sector does not have any competition.

      Delete
    6. Atr is far more efficient on such routes which is what matters the most as airlines operating the Atr can offer a lower price than their competitors flying the Q400 or the Airbus.

      Also a major advantage for JU is that they fly year-round while OU will most likely be seasonal. Very bad for brand recognition

      Delete
    7. Ok Petar, we get it. Leave it alone already.

      Delete
    8. One Q400 flight is far more economic than TWO ATR flights.
      Let alone comfortable and preferable for passengers.

      Milos you can leave this discussion if it upsets you in some way.

      Delete
    9. Disagree.
      Flights BEG-OTP are not meant to serve only as connecting flights for ZAG passengers so you cant compare it.

      Delete
    10. I am not comparing BEG-OTP flights. I am comparing OTP-BEG-ZAG on ATRs with flying direct OTP-ZAG on a Q400 or an F100 or an A319.
      Those are the options and we can all definitely compare them.
      Cheers

      Delete
    11. Actually you did compare by saying 1 Q400 flight is more economic than 2 ATR flights. There are many pax who fly only ZAG-BEG or BEG-OTP and only few of them fly ZAG-BEG-OTP so for JU is very economical to have 2 ATR routes.
      Taking in consideration JU's presence for much longer time in OTP and OU was never there it will be much easier to fill the planes than it will be for OU whose Q400 burns more fuel than AT7.
      Market positioning is the name of it.

      Delete
    12. Maybe your English are not very good Nebojsa but OTP-BEG flight needs only one ATR flight, not two.
      JU is very economical with the ATR on BEG-ZAG and also on BEG-OTP.
      Not though when you need BOTH flights plus a connection in BEG compared with a SINGLE Q400 flight from ZAG to OTP.

      We are talking about the passengers using JU to fly between ZAG and OTP here.
      So "market positioning" foes not change the fact that a one hour flight on a Q400 is far more economical and of course convenient and comfortable compared with two AT7 flights plus a connection.

      LOGIC and ECONOMICS is the name of It

      Delete
    13. Maybe my English IS not good, but at least I know to use plural and singular of verb "to be".

      Please say what was the part you did not understand and I would be glad to
      clarify it.
      Where did I say that OTP-BEG needs 2 flights?

      Here you have company that has not been positioned on certain market hoping to get some passengers on 800km turboprop destination on one side and on another side you have company who has been positioned on the same market for quite a long time with proven quality of service who is using more effecient airplanes making stopover in their hub and the most probably offering better connectivity.

      Flight with Q400 aircraft that burns more fuel that AT7 does not have to be more economical taking in consideration that route needs to be developed and that in the beginning the plane will be more empty than full.

      Yes, that is called logic. Agree.

      Delete
    14. But in your logical explanation you are forgetting a few things:

      1. point of sale will be in Romania, not Croatia. Air Serbia's brand is much stronger in RO than OU is.

      2. JU flies to both destinations year-round.

      3. Higher number of frequencies thus it provides for a lot of flexibility.

      4. The schedule JU offers allows for single day trips to ZAG from OTP if there is such a need.

      5. Even when it's not a single day JU offers more.

      6. OU will need at least 5 weekly flights to come close to affecting JU.

      Delete
    15. It is better to admit that you were wrong than to keep digging a deeper hole.
      A single and direct Q400 flight is not only more convenient for the passengers but also more economical for the airline operating than two separate AT7 flights plus a connection.
      That is logic and economic-commercial reality.

      Delete
    16. I guess OS and LH will not sell a single ticket to HEL, ARN and OSL now that OU is launching flights. I wonder how they allowed this to happen.

      Delete
    17. Anonymous at 2:27 PM
      1. You seem to believe that ASL flying with an AT& in OTP has the shame prestige and brand awareness as an Emirates A380. It has not!

      2. You do not know if OU will keep its flight year round or not. And in any case passengers will have no problem choosing OU during the Summer instead of JU if the flight times are more convenient. It is not like JU is part of an alliance that Romanians have an affiliation with.

      3. direct one hour flights offer even better flexibility and convenience.

      4. The schedule of JU offers passengers the option to spend half of their day at an airport or on a AT7 in order to then spend 2-3 hours in Zagreb. Good luck with that option.

      5.What does JU offer that is more convenient and economical?

      6. OU can easily affect JU by just offering direct flights three days a week! It could be even more than that. We don't know yet.

      Delete
    18. Anon 2:27 excellent points

      Petar, I offered many arguments in "bad" English, but if you still do not want to see them I really cannot help you.

      Delete
    19. Nebojsa denying reality does not change it!

      Anonymous at 2:35 PM
      Thank you for comparing JU with LH group, you gave me a good laugh. Bless you son!

      Delete
    20. Why? What's so different between JU and OS offering connections to OTP?

      The only difference is that JU can make money with a €170 ticket, OS can't.

      Delete
    21. So Petar, what you want to say is that OU will fail on Helsinki route because of LH?

      "5.What does JU offer that is more convenient and economical?"

      Probably lower prices and good flight times for Romanians, like people already said to you.
      You use word "economical" way often. Economical for passengers or airlines?

      MM

      Delete
    22. LOL anon 3:39!
      What is the difference between Lufthansa group and ASL you ask? Ha ha ha ha!

      Delete
    23. Anonymous February 27, 2017 at 3:42 PM

      Flying people on two flights plus handling a connection costs a lot more than one direct flight.
      So JU can only dump prices to get some cheap tourist traffic.

      Romanians will chose the better option for them, they are not JU fanboys nor do they have any particular desire to stop in BEG instead of flying directly.

      So flying directly instead of connecting is economical for airlines and usually for passengers too unless of course someone wants to dump fares and subsidize foreigners trips.

      Delete
    24. Talking about logics, you may understand that a plane carrying fuel for a longer flight spends more fuel by just carrying the excess fuel, hence the very emergence of the hub and spoke model.

      Second, a Q400 flight to OTP would take approximately 1h30 and not one hour which is not negligible.

      Third, if those 'frequent/business travellers' you talk about have as much time on their hands as you did today on this blog writing crap, then for sure they wouldn't mind a connecting flight which offers more flexibility.

      Now you may want to give it a break.

      Delete
    25. the anger of JU fanboys on these news today such as you Aэrologic proves what will happen to connecting traffic between ZAG and OTP once direct flights commence.
      Also do not try to prove that two flights and a connection is more economic than one direct flight for the airline.
      Nor it is preferable for passengers, let alone business passengers.
      But you can keep showing your frustration about news like that. It means that it is in the interest of passengers instead of immature cheerleaders.

      Delete
    26. At the end of the day, this will be a seasonal flight just like PRG, MXP and LIS are. This is a flight which will cater to the needs of some tourists coming to visit Croatia.

      If OU was after those regular fliers then this flight would have been year-round. Otherwise what would be Croatia's logic behind these flights?

      Air Serbia carries passengers between many other cities that already have a direct flight. In summer there are around 40 passengers connecting from Moscow to Tivat despite there being several non-stop options. Just like JU didn't lose there it won't lose here.

      How often have you looked for a flight and the non-stop option was more expensive than the connecting one? As far as Belgrade goes this is a common occurrence for flights to Paris or London where Lufthansa or Alitalia are always cheaper.

      Bucharest has a high GDP which means there will be some business traffic. Air Serbia (and Austrian Airlines) offer great times. A person can leave Bucharest at 05.00, arrive to Zagreb at 08.50. He can have meetings and whatnot and then leave at 21.00 and return back to Bucharest at 02.55. Yes, 02.55 is not an ideal time but for most companies it's better than spending €70, €100, €150... on a hotel room in Zagreb.

      Like I said, if OU wants to make it big in Bucharest then it has to make sure it sticks around. Seasonal flights won't cut it.

      Delete
    27. Can we please have some sense of scale here.

      Ju load factor on Zagreb flights is appalling, 60% best of time, most of the times aircraft are almost empty. 46000 pax on Zagreb - Belgrade - Zagreb route. this is around 32 pax per plane.

      So please no more nonsense how JU will dominate at Zagreb take all pax away. Enough of that !!!

      Realism, if OU has OTP plans it'll benefit firstly business travelers who fly directly point to point. Zagreb is attractive destination for Romanians and some 16000 Romanians visited Croatia. Zagreb can be used as a transfer hub to Dubrovnik and Split.

      This is what OU is betting on, sadly TAROM was too slow to react. For 160-20 000 or more Romanian visitors to Croatia OU is ideal as it offers best connectivity with the coast and best for business travelers who fly point to point.

      If Air Serbia can fill in gaps left by OU, more the merrier. Zagreb is a growing destination and is becoming a popular tourist and business destination. Zagreb airport will play crucial role in Zagreb's future growth as a destination and more airlines service Zagreb the better for all concerned.

      I couldn't care which airline flies to Zagreb, as long as there are more of them and offer me cheep tickets.

      Delete
    28. Where you got your numbers? I'm sorry to see Zagreb see so little demand. After all the airport handles <3 million pax per year but still...

      Delete
    29. Who said JU will dominate the market? Stop changing the discussion just to fit your twisted narrative.

      Croatia's flight is a glorified charter to bring Romanian tourists into Croatia.

      This line will not be for business people unless it's at least five weekly with convenient schedules.

      Saying this route is good for businessmen just because it's direct is like introducing one weekly flight and saying it will dominate all otehrs because there is no need to connect.

      And let's hope you are right as far as tourists go. Zagreb desperately needs more passengers.

      Delete
  15. I supposed it would be A319 as Q400 would be torture for passengers.
    ZAG-OTP is even longer than BEG-PRG which is known to be too long for turbo prop.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you can't compare the DH8-4 with AT7

      Delete
    2. DH8-4 has a more comfortable cabin, is quieter and flies faster.
      On longer distances it makes for a much better choice for passengers than an AT7.
      Hope that helps.

      Delete
    3. Over 750 km of distance turboprop is not effecient anymore. ZAG-OTP is more than 800 km.
      Q400 also burns more fuel than AT7.
      Facts.

      Delete
    4. Actually for a load of 70 passengers over a distance of 800 km a turboprop is much more efficient than an A320 or B737.
      Fact.
      Also the Q400 while burning more than an AT7 it also gets you there faster and more comfortably.
      Fact.

      Delete
    5. http://media.tangosix.rs/2016/12/alen-5.png

      Delete
    6. On a full aircraft? Sure!
      Can you fill a 320 between ZAG and OTP as often as a DH8-4?
      No of course not. So the DH8-4 is more economical than a half empty A320 series.
      Shame goes for an F-100.

      Delete
    7. Why do you think you will have full aircraft on newly developing route?

      I mean it is nice to have hope, but some portion of reality is recommended.

      Even if it happens OU will need much time operating with loss and at the same time companies that operate more economic planes with already established market position will make profit.

      Delete
    8. OU had a mere LF of 60% to LED. I am sure OTP will be about the same.

      Delete
    9. Nebojsa filing a Q400 is much easier than filing an A320.

      I know it is good to have hope but believing that people will chose to connect on BEG and two ATR flights over a direct Q400 has no base in reality.

      There are no other airlines in the market! OU will be the only airline flying directly. So good luck competing with a 5 hour connecting trip through BEG.
      Or you can seriously dump fares to get some back packing tourists. Good luck with that strategy!

      Delete
    10. What about those who chose to connect on two of Austrian's archaic Fokkers?

      Delete
    11. the Fokkers are/will be history

      Delete
    12. Prvo skoci pa reci hop

      Delete
    13. Austrian's Fokkers are much better choice than ASL's more archaic ATR's.
      And Austrian's Embraer 195s are better than both.

      Delete
  16. It's only 11AM and already over 100 comments :D

    ReplyDelete
  17. These new routes will also benefit Zagreb Airport. Growth should be really healthy this year.

    ReplyDelete
  18. They should really put these flights on sale ASAP. Norwegian already beat them to it on the Stockholm line. If they keep dragging this out TAROM and Finnair will announce flights.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ZAG-OTP can possible support one airline but not two.

      Delete
  19. Wow, great news. I hope they make code-share with Finnair. That way they could partly reduce loss of passengers going to Asia with Turkish, Emirates or Qatar, which would previously use OU + Lufthansa

    ReplyDelete
  20. OT

    Seems like February growth at BEG will be around 10%

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great! Any info how much is JU growth?
      Thank you!

      Delete
    2. It will be hard considering that this year in February there is one day less than last year...

      Delete
    3. JU growth will be between 5% and 7%

      Delete
    4. JU at this moment should be more focused on profit. It's easy to sell seats, making them make money for you is a different story.

      Delete
    5. JU is finally growing again, they have consolidated their operations. However, p2p market is pushing this growth despite some routes like ATH always departing full with connecting passengers.

      In summer growth will be around 15% so BEG will come close to 5.5 million passengers.

      Delete
  21. Any numbers about ZAG?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the month isn't over yet. What number you want?

      Delete
    2. Suppose how the numbers have been doing so far in February?

      Delete
  22. & AnonymousFebruary 27, 2017 at 11:36 AM
    OT

    Seems like February growth at BEG will be around 10%

    This is wrong information, BEG growth will be around 5% thanks to fewer number of days in February compared to last year. JU won't see any growth in February cause the decline in the number operations by 5%.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Air Serbia alone will see about 7% growth with New York and on top of that add another frequency by easyJet and the Israeli charters and voila.

      Delete
    2. So Air Serbia is losing market share?
      Who are the main airlines who gain?

      Delete
  23. Mostly terrible comments today, why must it always turn into a Croatia vs. Serbia game? As a Serb I congratulate OU and wish them well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. +1
      Unfortunately some Serbs chose to get angry about this new flights.
      Fortunately they are a tiny minority just like Croats with similar mindsets.
      These are good news for travelers and foreign visitors to the ex-Yu region.

      Delete
    2. Exactly, that's the way this news should be viewed.

      Delete
    3. +1, I opened this site early today and there was already 170 comments. I knew it was either a big announcement or just hateful and nonconstructive comments.

      Unfortunately I dont think its a tiny minority on either of the sides. For example if you visit the skyscrapercity forum for Zagreb Airport you will see a ton of hateful comments against Serbia in general.

      Delete
    4. @YYZ
      Haters on both sides are loud but they are few in numbers and as the years pass by they become fewer.

      Delete
  24. In regards to the Helsinki flights. I feel the airline which will be affected the most will actually be Finnair from Ljubljana. They normally fly 4 flights to Helsinki during the season. They seem to have connections to the Asian market. Any thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
  25. From Skopje you cannot go to Bucharest. Romania is 20 million people.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You can but via IST.

      Delete
    2. Any plans from Wizz Air or Blue air to start flights?
      RO is in bad shape, I can't see them starting anything risky.

      Delete
  26. VERY bad news from Alitalia!
    Situation is getting desperate...

    Alitalia, the airline that broke the camel’s back?
    http://atwonline.com/blog/alitalia-airline-broke-camel-s-back

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What a shame, hope something still can be done!

      Delete

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