Friday, March 17, 2017

Air Serbia eyes Krasnodar service


The Ministry of Transport of the Russian Federation has granted Air Serbia approval to launch up to seven weekly flights between Belgrade and Krasnodar in the country's south. It comes following a permit request filed by the Serbian Civil Aviation Directorate with Russian authorities in January. In its request, the Serbian regulator noted, "Our designated airline, Air Serbia, has expressed its interest in establishing scheduled air services to Krasnodar with seven weekly frequencies". In its response, published yesterday, the Russian Ministry noted, "The Russian side is ready to give the administrative permission to Air Serbia to perform services from points in Serbia to Krasnodar with up to seven frequencies per week on a temporary basis until the next round of consultations between our aeronautical authorities. We hope to develop successful and mutually beneficial cooperation between our authorities".

Air Serbia currently codeshares on Aeroflot's flights between Moscow and Krasnodar, in addition to Kazan, Samara, Sochi and St. Petersburg. Last year, Air Serbia introduced flights to its second destination in Russia - St. Petersburg - which it currently serves three times per week on a seasonal summer basis. Due to the route's relative success, the airline also ran a number of flights during the winter. It carried some 12.000 passengers between the two cities over the year. Furthermore, Air Serbia also maintains services between Belgrade and Moscow. Krasnodar Airport is Russia's ninth busiest. Apart from Russian based airlines, European carriers serving the city include Austrian, Air Moldova and Belavia.

The Serbian carrier has previously announced it will be introducing four weekly flights to Venice this summer. It recently discontinued services to Istanbul and will no longer serve Warsaw, which it suspended at the start of the winter season. Furthermore, summer services to Varna and Kiev are unlikely to be resumed this year either. The 2017 summer season begins next Sunday. EX-YU Aviation News will bring you all the changes the national carriers in the former Yugoslavia will be making to their network's this summer over the coming week.

113 comments:

  1. Well that's a bit unexpected....

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  2. It's a bit odd. I thought demand for the Russian market was declining...

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    1. Demand for Moscow route is declining. Not necessarily the rest of Russia.

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    2. I am eage to wait for next flights to Irkutsk, Novosibirsk and Vladivostok! ;)

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    3. You may wish to learn some geography first. Studying the aviation market in Russia could also help. After that you may become less eager for cheap mockery.

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  3. They did not succeed in Warsaw, Budapest, Varna, Kiev, Istanbul but will be successful in Krasnodar? Congratulation.

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  4. Maybe they will just fly charters with Aviolet.

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  5. Humm now this is odd...

    why not Sotchi then?

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    Replies
    1. Sochi primarily depends on Serbian construction workers traveling there, which makes it volatile.

      On the other hand, Krasnodar seems to be quite underserved by western European carriers. No LH, no AF - only OS have a route to Vienna (literally the only western capital with a direct link to Krasnodar). This could make a good niche for JU - a bit of transfer pax to Croatia and Montenegro in summer, a bit of transfer pax to JFK, a bit to Germany, and there you go.

      Perhaps the best opportunity lies in the fact there is no TK in Krasnodar.

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    2. Actually Krasnodar can serve the needs of Serbian construction companies in Sochi too - it is abot 100km away so transfers can be arranged if contracts are signed.

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    3. Fyi there are no more Serbian large scale construction companies working in Sochi/Adler the major works are completed.

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  6. I could read the first batch of comments with my eyes closed. Doom, doom, doom. When JU opens routes, it is bad. When they cut them it is bad. Everything is bad and can only be bad. Bad, bad, bad. I sometimes wonder how these people make it through a single day with so much hate and bitterness on their souls.

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    1. i havent read a single "bad" post. Most say its odd decision

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    2. Check 9:05, 9:06 and 9:16. There will be dozens such doom predictions by the end of the day. Nothing but automatic hate, no matter what the news is. Any argument to support it? No need. Hate is enough, as long as they spit it left and right.

      And there are some posters who actually took a look at the data and said the decision may not be so "crazy" after all. But why would the hater brigade ever bother to actually discuss anything? For them it is all about shouting doom, doom, doom.

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    3. Could you please share the data ?

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    4. I believe this became a boring tradition in this blog, attacking/criticizing every negative comment on JU. I'm sick of reading notes on how others hate JU, that JU is the greatest and the most successful airline in the entire planet but people in this blog can't acknowledge it etc. Please stop that. If you have a counter opinion, write it so, instead of directing your reaction towards other people and their comments.

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    5. I do not have the feasibility analysis in front of me. What I was simply saying that some posters already share a couple of arguments on why/how the route might work. We will of course not know until we see how it goes - but at least we can discuss it as aviation enthusiasts.

      And these neverending chants of doom, crazy, wtf is Krasnodar, etc... this is not enthusiasm. Just a daily dose of toxins.

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    6. Anon 9:30,

      No one today said anything even close to JU being the greatest and most successful airline. What is said is, that the same way JU makes you sick because it exists some other people are sick of reading hate attacks without any argument to back them up and before a route is even launched. Hell, your brethren do not even know where/what Krasnodar is - but they know the route there is crazy.

      So please stop playing a victim here as you are exactly the opposite.

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    7. You expect enthusiasm on a route that makes "not the most sense" ?
      If your average aviation enthusiast had to compile a list of top 20-30 airports unserved by Air Serbia (within the range and capacity of their current fleet) how many do you think would put Krasnodar on it ?

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    8. Who says it does not make sense? How in earth can you know that? Can you offer any argument other than "nonsense"? You may start with those top 20-30 unserved airports and we may compare JU'c chances there compared to Krasnodar. Light up some discussion, contribute with something. 30 comments since 9am and I am still waiting to actually read an ARGUMENT on why Krasnodar would not work. All I can read is "nonsense" without anything behind it.

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    9. Everyone is entitled to an opinion - aren't they?
      Besides everything is scrutinised on this blog and channeled as applicable

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    10. We all know that haters go into a frenzied overdrive when there's any positive news on JU, BEG or RS. A good analytical correlation can be followed, for example, between Wednesday's, yesterday's and today's news. Which is indicate that there are fanatics on standby, that feed their mental insecurities through their daily barrages directed against one country in particular and all that it has.

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    11. I highly recommend everyone to comment on the actual topic, instead of trying to humiliate, make a mockery of or attack the people dared to leave a comment here. And note that the improper posts are filtered by the administration, regardless of your comments.

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    12. Just want to remind people that JU won the ATW 2016 Market Leader award, beating out a host of bigger, better and more well known airlines. That says alot.

      More importantly, it is good recognition for aviation in ex-yu that airlines in this part of the world are capable of doing well and delivering against their targets.

      Something for other's to aspire to

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    13. It wouldn't be the first time an award has been bought.

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  7. Maybe they know something we don't? It will probably be a seasonal route, maybe it is for Serbian constructor workers, but 7 weekly?

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    1. well, it says UP TO 7 weekly. so they might start with 2-3, and gradually increase. or just leave it with 2-3

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    2. Believe it or not for Venice they initially applied for double daily.

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  8. One word - Crazy!

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  9. Who knows what the actual traffic flow is like between Serbia and Russia. Apart from Moscow and LED it could have the most passengers from southern Russia. The fact that they are codesharing with Aeroflot from Moscow to Krasnodar is an indication that their could be traffic there.

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    1. No! Why discussing anything?! Why being constructive?! Do not do that, just shout: CRAZY, DOOM, NONSENSE. Never use more than a single word but make sure it is as negative as it can be.

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  10. Wtf is Krasnodar? This is how much sense make that flights to me!

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  11. this makes only sense in summer 2-3 weekly with connecting traffic to Podgorica and Tivat

    otherwise i have no idea

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    Replies
    1. Think its time Air Serbia got a management refresh

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    2. Suppose they put you in charge. Which route would you open instead? And why?

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    3. Read the first couple of comments then.

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  12. I don't know this just seems like a really odd choice. I guess during the summer if they see potential in shuttling tourists to Montenegro and transfers to the west it could have some basis.

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  13. Can the ATR make it to Krasnodar? It would be exotic to add such a different destination. Also Russians can visit whole of Srbija with no visas.

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    1. This route will not be operated by ATR.

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    2. It will most likely be operated by ATRs

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    3. Range wise an ATR can make this route.

      Belgrade-Krasnodar is 1460km.

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    4. same for Montenegro and Macedonia

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    5. The ATR is JUs flagship aircraft. Look forward to seeing the ATR getting a water canon salute in .... where?

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    6. They are not sending the ATR to Krasnodar. It has neither the range nor comfort for such a flight

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    7. Anons 9:45, 9:47

      Being theoretically in range of ATR does not mean ATR will fly there. It is simply not an ATR type of route. It requires at least a regional jet, in the absence of which JU will deploy A319. A move that will definitely ruin another day in the life of Anon 9:50.

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    8. Never a ruined day in anon's 0950 life. JUs prosperous plans of forthcoming flights to somewhere in the south of Russia is pure amusement. If you can't make IST work then this is the one

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    9. If you had any clue about the aviation business you would have figured out that just because IST does not work does not mean another route could not work. Factors determining an airline success in IST and KRR are so fundamentally different, it is embarrassing to use the two in a same sentence. But it's something you still have to discover since your mission here is to insult certain countries rather than talking aviation.

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    10. @ anonymous 10,30am

      Fact is, many airlines have stopped flying to IST such as IB, AZ, LX, AC. TK have greatly reduced frequencies and have parked many aircraft.

      JU struggled in IST, struggled to get the slots it did. This way, they have a good code share agreement with KK who could also better sell BEG and JU to the Turkish market, something JU couldn't do.

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    11. It's interesting how people here, including JATBEGMEL have double standards and criteria - so not succeeding in IST is OK because some other airlines are withdrawing from there, yet opening Krasnodar is also OK, despite the fact that other airlines, much bigger and more appealing to passengers don't fly there and consider it zero posibility success market. Cheers!

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    12. No one said dropping IST was OK per se. It was clearly said that since JU failed to position itself there and attract customers, a better solution to the problem was to replace their own route with KK codeshare than to keep flying empty.

      Dropping one route is not comparable to starting another one, so please stop accusing other posters of something they did not say.

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  14. Well JU will have to start something new. With the current planned timetable they will have a lot of planes with long hours doing nothing so I was expecting that they will be starting up some new flights.

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  15. Perhaps JU should start flying to LHR more often. "Apparently" its a gold mine in terms of revenue so they say

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    1. To fly more they would have to buy more slots which is expensive. JU has 9 slots during the summer (inherited from JAT). Jat Airways flew LHR and LGW one year because there was a lot of demand.

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    2. I doubt JU will find the funds and AZ have asked EY for more cash to support their new business plans to survive the next few months at least, so I suspect that won't be happening - unfortunately

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    3. JU actually requested for 10 additional slots in LHR around 2 years ago and were rejected.

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  16. Good to see a focus on secondary cities, and not tired old destinations where everyone is scrambling for a slice of an ever-diminishing cake. Good luck JU!

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    1. Good luck JU. Hopefully will drive demand although as I suspect will be a waste of time

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  17. I don't mind when airlines think outside the box. If they can catch some transfers passengers than it might work out well for them.

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  18. Was hoping they would go for Mineralnye Vody or at least Nizhny Novgorod

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    1. Well these are two very different places. But what is interesting is that both destinations are served by Atlas Global which means JU can cover them through the codeshare they have with KK.

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    2. They are booming cities in a booming country with a relaxed visa policy. The ties are strong. And they could codeshare with HY to Tashkent

      It's a no-brainer

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  19. If this is true then I think it will be a great strategic decision. This is definitely a move that can be labelled as thinking outside the box.

    Krasnodar is a growing city with some 745.000 inhabitants. It's population is continuously growing which can only mean that there is some economic activity which in its own turn creates a travelling public.

    Their airport handled 3.128.248 passengers in 2015, meaning that it handled more passengers than any ex-YU airport with the exception of BEG. I also checked their website and seems like several airlines are adding frequencies and destinations.

    Mind you, Austrian Airlines operates these flights with a mix of F70 and E95. Air Serbia's A319 would provide a far superior experience, not to mention that the flight would be shorter than OS' which is almost three hours from what I remember.

    Finally, don't forget that Russians don't require a visa to enter Serbia so they could organize tourist groups like they do from Turkey and Israel.

    My prediction is that we will see a similar schedule like the one to LCA.

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    1. when Kiev is not working ...

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    2. Actually, if you look at a map you will notice that KRR's geographical location is far more favorable than KBP's in terms of transfers via BEG.

      Anyway, I am sure KBP could have worked with some marketing and better pricing for O&D passengers.

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    3. Thank you Nemjee. As some of you know, I've been advocating this route for years. KRR is the gateway to the South, Caucasus and Crimea which has no international services so KHE and KRR are becoming its 'main' airports for international travel. KRR is also an alternative to Rostov. This would be the first of a kind of 'odd' routes materializing. Better late than never.

      https://pp.userapi.com/c614631/v614631496/8288/JZr6nz6Xj4A.jpg

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  20. AS mora da se pomiri sa cinjenicom da nema avione za okruzenje da bi mogao da leti svaki dan sa raznih manjih aerodroma. Naruceni su jos veci avioni nego sto imaju sada. Bolje 3-4 dana puni iz Krasnodara i Venecije nego prazni svaki dan iz Ist. Bice i tako puno transfer putnika za ameriku i kinu.

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  21. Just checked that OS do fly 6 flights p.w VIE-KRR while PC do daily KRR-SAW. There is no other major foreign, European airline so I am thinking that JU took a very good decision.
    KRR has more traffic, compared to say, ZAG so there will definitely be potential on that route.
    Maybe VAR or KBP didn´t work out well but hey KRR might prove to be the next gem.
    Pozdrav ot Sofia.

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    Replies
    1. but KBP is doing just fine at Sofija. What do you mean didn't work out from BEG? There is no logic in that

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  22. JU has 10 airbuses and only 4 or 5 of those are used for the night departure wave (ATH, SKG, LCA, TLV, BEY). That leaves 5-6 for trying and testing the market. Its better to try currently undeserved destinations in the east (up to 3 hours away) than to leave them sitting idle all night long. It is not like they were throwing darts at the map. Planes are moved where they can be used more profitably. Hence IST, BUD, WAW, KBP, cuts.

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    1. I agree more can be made from the night departure wave. ME departures do well during this wave and I would focus more on that.

      However, as for the last sentence, JU simply needs a regional jet for markets like KBP and WAW. Its not a market for the ATR but too small for an A319. Budapest can be made by car in 4 hours and high fares didn't help stimulate O&D demand.

      Going back to the night waves, I honestly think AMM would be a good addition.

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    2. CAI would be a good route to test.

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  23. I think this is a good decision. Let us see if they will start flying there or it's just words...

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    1. Well, they did submit a request so I have a feeling they might be actually serious about it.

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    2. They didn't submit a request to fly, they asked for the bilateral agreement between Serbia and Russia to include a 3rd city (in this case KRR) in order to broaden the range of cities available for BOTH designated carriers ie. Air Serbia AND Aeroflot. Aeroflot also agreed to this.

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  24. For me it is surprising decision. It seems that JU is looking for bit unexpected solutions (that might not be bad at all) but somehow it reminds me on VAR. At the time JU started flights there we had similar comments here of people who did not expect it but believed it might be good destination. Unfortunately JU was not successful there.
    From the other side these "exotic" destinations (Krasnodar, Almaty) somehow remind me on strategy Czech Airlines had in Russia but failed.
    I still believe that BCN could be better solution.

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    1. I don't know how JU have failed at VAR when VAR is booming now.

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    2. Yeah, BCN where everyone flies already would be much better than an underserved point that keeps growing in importance. Why trying something new if you can fight for crumbs in BCN against Europe's largest legacies and LCCs.

      Not to mention that VAR does not compare to KRR. And even if it does, this logic: "If one destination failed then everything else will fail no matter what" is really beyond me.

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    3. How can you compare Varna and Krasnodar? I'm sorry but this is borderline ignorant.

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    4. KRR would have different profile of passengers than VAR but if it fails (which I hope will not happen) it will be very comparable by "success" it made.

      I wonder how LH, AZ, LO, RO, LX or even TK are so blind not to see KRR on the map.

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    5. LH Group has 'seen' KRR which is why it is served from VIE with OS.

      What would RO do in KRR? They have a rather weak network out of OTP and they are increasingly focusing on the O&D market.

      As for LO, they are expanding in the Caucasus so who knows...

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    6. If KRR has big pax potential there would not be presented only one company from LH Group but more.

      RO has weaker network from OTP than JU for approx.30% but it is closer to KRR and surely would be recognized as interesting destination if it was.

      It is quite interesting to see that TK is not flying to KRR although they fly to almost any village in Europe. Maybe with the reason

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    7. Relations between Russia and Romania are nowhere close to those between Serbia and Russia. Also, JU actually carries more passengers than RO.

      Well, TK might not be flying there but Pegasus does.

      Why should another LH Group airline launch KRR if there is no need for it? VIE is perfectly positioned to cater for transfer passengers, much better than FRA or ZRH.

      I still believe that this route has potential. Like I said, you mentioned VAR which is fundamentally different from KRR.

      KRR is more similar to SKG where JU performs rather well.

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    8. @ Nemjee,
      what you are saying about Romania is totally incorrect. I know Romania very well. This is a country with which I'm working very closely in last years and can assure you that their relations with Russia are very bad. TAROM even have stopped flying to SVO due to poor loads...

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    9. Well, he did say that Serbia-Russia relations are better.

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    10. 3:59 wrong sub-topic

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    11. 3:58PM bellow is the wrong sub-topic, what's wrong with the forum? Can you please delete it?

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    12. Dear NEMJEE can you please inform me how many passengers did TAROM carry in 2016 ? Thanks a lot.

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    13. RO carried 2.41 million in 2016.

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  25. If we follow that logic JU should not be flying to LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG etc as "everyone flies there already".
    We have experience that Spanair was very successful on that route (worked much better than MAD) and there is no reason JU not to be.

    Vueling must have good reasons to keep that flight during summer (even this year until end of October) meaning there are enough passengers despite JU has different business model than Vueling.

    VAR does not compare to KRR as KRR sounds really exotic at this moment while VAR is far more popular, but still not successful for JU.

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    1. Air Serbia had around 30 passengers per flight to Varna. My guess is that they were not losing money but they were not making much either.

      I mean, how successful would DBV or SPU be for JU if there weren't all those O&D passengers? These summer airports get most of their traffic from charter and scheduled flights which sell their seats to tour operators.

      Krasnodar on the other hand is a city with year-round demand. Their passenger growth is not dependent on foreign visitors coming to have a swim in their sea.

      Don't forget that Russia and Serbia have extremely strong ties. This will play an important role as well. After all, wasn't there a survey recently which found out that roughly 40% of Serbs would support some sort of union with Russia.

      In the end, the best solution would be to introduce both BCN and KRR. ;)

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    2. You need a balance of both. Air Serbia is flying too much to mainstream places and losing at it.

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    3. Well, he did say that Serbia-Russia relations are better.

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    4. "Air Serbia had around 30 passengers per flight to Varna. My guess is that they were not losing money but they were not making much either. "

      My entire problem with this discussion is that nobody came near finance or planning dept. and here is alive assumption that 7pax in ATR could brakeaven

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    5. Well, maybe with 7 pax they could break even in terms of fuel spent (and fees?), but for sure not if you include fixed costs (corporate, etc.)

      But I keep wondering why haven't they leased at least couple more ATRs and introduced new frequencies and destinations in the region. There must be something we're not seeing.

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  26. OT: Any news on JP pilot strike next week? Will they have somebody else operate the flights?

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  27. Offtopic Eurowings begins flight from Munich to Skopje from October http://plusinfo.mk/vest/107990/eurovings-kje-leta-i-na-relacija-minhen-skopje-

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    1. You are the third one who tells this kind of info

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    2. @easyJet

      I just want to make sure that you have already noticed that Eurowings will start flying Skopje - Munich at the end of October.

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    3. So what's so goddamn important?

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    4. Is Eurowings flying from Munich to Skopje in October? Really?! When? I thought SKP was the LCC heavenly destination ;)

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    5. oh wow, shocking

      call bbc, financial times, wsj..

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  28. They can initially start 3 weekly service with ATR:
    BEG-KRR 23:50 01:00 AT7
    KRR-BEG 03:00 05:00 AT7

    NYC and Balkans will be covered especially Zagrab and Crna G0ra.

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    Replies
    1. you can't fly these legs with an ATR in 5 hours!

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    2. Also, time difference between BEG and KRR is two hours, so if an Atr takes off at 23.50 it would arrive there much, much later than 01.00. ;)

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  29. Yesterday SJJ to BEG ATR.72.500 a near 60yrs old stewardess with bavarian rolls, why so old cabin crew, I thought they went to retirement with JAT name...

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