Thursday, August 17, 2017

Adria considering Kiev flights


Adria Airways is considering introducing services from Ljubljana to the Ukrainian capital Kiev after Dniproavia cancelled its plans to commence flights between the two cities this summer. A source at Kiev's Boryspil Airport has confirmed that advanced talks between Adria and the airport have taken place with flights possible as early as this winter season. The Slovenian carrier itself has previously said it is examining the Ukrainian market. “Ukraine has potential. We are now in negotiations with Ukrainian airports and are exchanging ideas. I cannot go into detail at this moment but we are discussing a direct service between Ljubljana and Ukraine”, Adria's Chief Commercial Officer, Thomas Hoess, said in the past.

Adria's CEO, Arno Schuster, and the Ukrainian Ambassador to Slovenia held talks over the resumption of flights between the two countries earlier this year. The Embassy said Adria had expressed strong interest to launch services to Ukraine, with the two sides discussing commercial cooperation. It was followed up by a meeting between the Slovenian aviation regulator and the Embassy aimed at amending the bilateral air agreement between the two countries which limited flight operations to Kiev and Ljubljana only, excluding other cities in the process. After fulfilling all criteria of the European Union's Visa Liberalisation Plan in May, Ukrainian nationals were granted visa free travel to most EU-member states two months ago, resulting in a significant increase in travel demand. The Ukrainian carrier Dniproavia was to introduce three weekly flights between Kiev and Ljubljana in late June with tickets put on sale, however, the service was cancelled prior to its launch.

Adria last operated flights to Ukraine six years ago when it ran two weekly seasonal services from the Slovenian capital to Kiev. The airline has boosted its operations to key markets this year following a consolidation process in 2016. During the January - July period, the carrier handled 672.905 passengers, representing an increase of 11% on last year. The number of operated flights grew 6%. Adria will enter the upcoming winter season, which begins on October 29, with a fleet of thirteen aircraft. It is also exploring mutual synergies and efficiencies with Darwin Airline, which it purchased in July through its Swiss subsidiary. Mr Schuster recently noted that following Adria's takeover by 4K Invest in 2016, emphasis was put on the restructuring effort, as well as stabilising the business, while this year has been devoted to growth and improvements in service quality. "Of course, the restructuring cannot be completed overnight but we are on the right path", the CEO said.

119 comments:

  1. I think it's a great feeding market for west European flights (or even their Balkan network).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree. Hope they go for it.

      Delete
    2. Yes, it's impossible to fly from KBP to the Western Europe at the moment. Only KL, AF, LH, OS fly to their hubs. Not to mention Ukraine International.

      People are already waiting in line to fly 3 times a week via LJU with a regional jet.

      Delete
    3. It's a massive market which is still underserved. So yes there would be interest.

      Delete
    4. KBP is already in Adria system JP934/JP935 3 times per week and it's perfectly feat into Adria's wave of West and East flight. Plane will depart LJU at 9.30pm and arrive at 6.05am next day in LJU.

      Delete
    5. wow great news! :)

      Delete
    6. I still can't see it in amadeus

      Delete
    7. @ 10.05 Do you know when ticket sales will start? Thanks.

      Delete
    8. I think in a few weeks. Flights to KPB will start 29.10

      Delete
    9. Fantastic :) thank you.

      Delete
    10. In Adria's W17 we will see huge increase of frequencies on existing routes. For instance ZRH 5 more flights than in W16 that's mean 20 weekly flights. Just wait and see to W17 timetable :)

      Delete
    11. Looking forward to it! Exciting times ahead for Adria.

      Delete
    12. Those are good times. Anon 10.05 do you know which aircraft type will operate the flight?

      Delete
    13. expected is CRJ900

      Delete
  2. How many people do actually want to travel there in winter?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's mainly for transfers not people going for a city break to Kiev.

      Delete
    2. A better question is how many Ukrainians want to connect via Ljubljana to western Europe?

      Delete
    3. If ticket prices are decent there will be enough passengers to fill a CRJ700/900 three times per week.

      Delete
    4. Its meant to compete against Wizzair, which had a presence in KBP. So if you are cheaper than Wizz with your 70 seats it might work for the pax, but not for the company.

      Delete
  3. It is great to see how Adria is recovering nicely. I am sure we will have a new route this winter be it Kiev or any other city as they will have additional planes. I also hope they add frequencies.

    With them purchasing Darwin they are in a really strong position. What a change on just a year ago.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree with you for the most part but all of that means nothing until we see their finances.

      Delete
    2. JP is doing much better than other ex-yu airlines.

      Delete
    3. According to amadeus PRG is already upgraded from 3 to 4 this winter

      Delete
    4. And that is just the beginning ;)

      Delete
    5. @ 9.06 +100
      This time last year we were talking about Adria declaring bankruptcy. Now they have just bought another airline.

      Delete
    6. ^Read JU520 BEGLAX's comment below for the real situation.

      Delete
    7. Investor got JP for peanuts, same for F7. As per fact 4K has no proven experience in the airline sector will be interesting to follow up their results.

      Delete
    8. Does anyone know any of 4K's other clients? Do they have any?

      Delete
    9. Since they released no financial information with regards to buying Darwin, we can assume the following...

      Either Adria bought Darwin for peanuts or it was done with 4K's money. If you look at the financials, there is no way Adria with their own money could afford to pay a substantial price for Darwin.

      Delete
  4. I remember reading that Romania is the top unserved market from Slovenia. Maybe they should consider that as well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Biggest demand for unserved cities from LJU:

      Barcelona
      Berlin
      Cologne
      Dublin
      Dusseldorf
      Madrid
      Milan
      Oslo
      Rome
      Sofia

      Delete
    2. A lot of potential and unserved routes from Ljubljana but little interest from airlines unfortunately.

      Delete
    3. Berlin was flown by both easyjet and Adria, BCN by Adria and Vueling, Cologne shecduled but all were cancelled after only a few months due to low demand. All those routes might be the most unserved but in absolute terms the number of pax flying those routes is vanishingly small.

      Delete
  5. Would be nice to see something new from Ljubljana :)

    ReplyDelete
  6. Didn't JU fail to Kiev because the yields were low? Won't it be the same issue for JP?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. JU never failed, JU bluntly gave up. The route was seeing very healthy loads for a route that just started and just needed time to mature.

      Delete
    2. And that was before visas were abolished for Ukranians which would have brought even more transfer pax to the flight.

      Delete
    3. The main issue for JU on this route is that they don't have the right plane. They used to lease CRJ900 and that was perfect but it can't work with an A319/A320.

      Delete
    4. It works for Aegean and for many other airlines. Also, JU could have sent the ATR to LWO which is a huge feeding market to JFK so there is really no excuse.

      Delete
    5. JU isn't reacting to any development be it regional or European.

      Delete
    6. It works for Aegean because they don't have to rely just on transfer passengers. People are forgetting that the Greek market is huge and can sustain a lot of P2P passengers.

      Delete
    7. I was flying Aegean KBP-ATH last November, we were maybe 40 pax. The thing is not about ATH - which JU could perfectly serve via its own hub, don't forget - but about not giving up easily and being consistent on a market, having long-term perspectives.

      Delete
    8. On our flights on JU from Kiev there was a healthy division between O&D and transfer pax. I spoke with representatives at Kiev airport, they were saying that most of flights are full and some see up to 70% of O&D passengers. Same things repeated by the JU station manager. So enough about talking stupidities about Kiev flights and finding excuses for JU. Besides, as once again repeated, Kiev isn't the only city in a country of 40 million people. The results are clear, the airline is shrinking on all fronts because:

      - it doesn't know to capitalize on its advantages
      - it ignores key markets in its vicinity
      - lack of investment in existing markets what also results in a limited reach (fact that Adria or OU carry the same number of pax from SKP is catastrophic)

      ...and so on and so on.

      Delete
    9. It can be 100% full, if the yields are not there it will still produce a loss.

      Delete
    10. We all know that mantra. To improve the yields you need to build up and present a viable product and not give up on a destination after two months.

      After all, Kiev is not the only. There is Warsaw, there is Budapest and over a dozen other destinations that were never launched and/or either being reduced.

      PS just announced they're launching Eilat what i spoke about two years ago. That's a niche market, highly lucrative. Yet each time for a second my brain gets numb when either LO, PS or A3 are launching one by one all the destinations that were listed here back in 2013.

      Delete
  7. Did Dniproavia cancel Ljubljana because there was poor interest or something else?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Probably low interest but they were going for completely different passengers. They were not catering for Ukrainians going to the west like Adria would. They were catering for P2Ps.

      Delete
    2. The reason is that Slovenian FAA not gives the permission to Dniproavia for this flight.

      Delete
    3. Dniproavia has to be nationalized according to the court decision in Ukraine. They have other issues right now to take care about then opening new destinations...

      Delete
    4. Ah ok, thank you.

      Delete
  8. A CRJ700 would be perfect for this route.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes with an average ticket price of 400€ round trip at 70% LF they could actually make money!

      Delete
  9. I'm curious how there is still no JP routes towards Iberian peninsula. I'm glad for possible new route to the east, but West/South West Europe is really underserved at LJU.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Good luck Adria!

    ReplyDelete
  11. Hope the loads will be there.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Don't see it. Air Serbia couldn't make it on this route. Doubt Adria could.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. JU should hardly be used as an example other airlines should look towards.

      Delete
    2. Air Serbia served this route with Adria's plane last summer. Reason why they wasn't continue flying on this route is because loads are to low for Airbus A319. Air Serbia does not have an regional jet like CRJ900 or CRJ700 like Adria have. If they have jet plane of that size and economy they maybe continue flying on this route at least during summer season.

      Delete
    3. JU has the ATR and Lvov where LO flies double daily is almost the same distance as LJU, shorter than VCE.

      Delete
    4. I don't think they can use ATR on more routes without reducing or canceling some other route. Timetable is full. And lvov is not the same as Kiev.

      Delete
    5. Well, there comes the question, why Air Serbia can't do virtually anything?

      Such as leasing a single additional Atr.

      Delete
    6. You had an entire Air Serbia topic yesterday. Should have wrote then.

      Delete
  13. How much did Dniprovavia charge for fares to Ljubljana while they were selling tickets?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That was quite expensive actually.

      Delete
    2. dont expect that JP will be any cheaper. and thats the problem

      Delete
    3. Cheapest direct flights from VIE to KBP are 380€ if booked via Austrian and 360€ if booked via UIA. I think 250€ is a damn good price.

      Delete
  14. If the flights are scheduled to fit into Adria's waves then it should do very well.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I still think they missed an opportunity not flying to Tehran when they planned to start those flights. Would have been an excellent feeder.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There was some issue around plane insurance which is apparently expensive.

      Delete
  16. Not sure what Schuster is dreaming of KBP? Adria was there, Dniproavia cancelled LJU. Even JU did not manage to keep KBP
    Either this news are cold coffee or he must be nuts

    Btw atmosphere at JP is not at its best. Ongoing pressure on ground crew since mgt wants to further reduce salaries. Also communication of Schuster is bad. Employees do not get status information of company situation. At least each quarter the employees should be informed by Schuster about progress etc

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have info too that timetable is being worked out for these flights now so I think it is happening. It could be that they got nice incentives.

      Delete
    2. KBP is already in Adria system JP934/JP935 3 times per week and it's perfectly feat into Adria's wave of West and East flight. Plane will depart LJU at 9.30pm and arr at 6.05am next day.

      Delete
    3. He will burn some EUR and soon it will be stopped again. No idea why JP should get some incentives to fly this no market lane

      Delete
    4. "At least each quarter the employees should be informed by Schuster about progress etc"

      Why? Employees are not shareholders.

      Delete
    5. Anonym 1137 am. U must be from an anglosaxon country. There shareholder come first and than customers and employees. Complete wrong philosophy. All 3 factors are same important and not just financial success is a success. But lets leave that discussion. LX in the early 2000s after the collapse of SR, the CEO was posting results, challenges, progress every Q mainly to motivate, remind bit also inform them.
      In my eyes thats the right way to proceed. Shareholders are important, equal important are employees. If u just hve capital but no one working in yr company, you can clean yr bud with the banknotes. And least and most important: customers are kings. If they are happy they will return again and again
      Unfortunately the new business philosophy trends origining fm the anglosaxon territories are going the wrong direction and unsatisfaction of the citizens in the USA is more and more evident

      Delete
    6. Of course customer is king, otherwise no revenue = no salaries and lastly, no profit. But it doesn't mean employees need to know every little detail about the future plans of the company.

      Delete
    7. Actually we do have a quarterly report from Arno on the status of the company; there will be one coming at the end of august or early September.

      Delete
    8. So what was the contents on his last report?

      Delete
    9. Unfortunately thats confidential, sorry.

      Delete
  17. If things continue developing the way they are, Adria could become a major competitor in this region.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Trade between Ukraine and Slovenia is notable. The route could probably attract some business passengers as well.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I think Croatia Airlines should consider Zagreb-Kiev. I am sure there would be interest and during the summer they would also benefit from tourism traffic.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Croatia Airlines only recently found out there is another part of the continent located east of Croatia. I don't think we will see them in Ukraine anytime soon.

      Delete
  20. Those JP uniforms are so stylish. Wish Adria the best with the new route. Keep growing .

    ReplyDelete
  21. The fact that Adria used to fly this route seasonally in the past would indicate little demand during winter time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That was 6 years ago. Things have changed on the market since then.

      Delete
    2. KBP passenger traffic 2010 was 6,7 million, 2017 10,5 are expected.

      Delete
    3. Numbers for the second airport in Kyiv Zhuliany: IEV 2010 - 30 thousand; projection for 2017 - 2 million passengers

      Delete
    4. Yet for Air Serbia there is no market ;)

      Delete
    5. @11:43
      There was/is market. There ain't appropriate aircraft tho ;)

      Delete
    6. There isn't appropriate marketing.

      Delete
  22. Maybe it has something to do with Darwin?

    ReplyDelete
  23. They better nor fly those planned Sukhois there :D

    ReplyDelete
  24. If they want to start these flights ticket sales should begin very soon. It's already mid August and winter season start in 2 1/2 months.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I think it's too late for Schuster's team to polish the EBITDA and try to sell the money losing company to a third party. EBITDA fetish days are gone, investors are looking for profitable companies again. Buying Darwin and its turboprops in its fleet was a clever move to reduce the operating costs (CRJs are quite expensive equipment to operate) but again, it's too late. Even though we assume they did all the right moves (but they didn't), the market size is limited, prohibiting the company from growing. Sorry Arno, that was a dead investment.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Saab 2000 is not the cheapest turboprop to operate. Plus it's been out of production for almost 20 years, so reliability is not the strong part.

      Delete
    2. Not the cheapest turboprop to operate but definitely cheaper than CRJs.

      Delete
    3. Not really. You need one spare aircraft or stock of expensive rotables difficult to get. Everybody is getting rid of concordino, legendary aircraft it was. Another two options are, ATR which you can make money with but its a piss of crap and Q, which is too expensive. And btw, ask F7, SB20 reliability was one of their strongest kpi's (read: one of a few)

      Delete
  26. Other than Kiev are there some other perspective destinations for Adria from Ljubljana?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Spain - Madrid or Barcelona. Italy - Rome or Milan. Middle East - Dubai.

      Delete
    2. Milan is too close (5 hours by car) and Dubai is a no-brainer with EK in VCE and ZAG with their huge network from DXB.

      Delete
    3. They fly to Vienna, which is 3,5 hours away from Ljubljana.

      Delete
    4. They feed OS!

      Delete
  27. OT

    AA will start PHL BUD and PHL PRG aa of SUTT 2018

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How will that impact LO's plans for BUD-JFK?

      Delete
    2. JU520 Beglax - Where do you see that they will start Philadelphia-budapest and Philadelphia-Prague in 2018?

      Delete
    3. It was released last nite in the USA. U can seeit on their facebook too

      Delete
    4. AA during SUTT 2018 will also serve ORD fm VCE

      Delete
  28. They will probably get subsidies from Kiev Airport to start this route. I'm looking forward to seeing their winter ops. Also very interesting will be to see if there are any Darwin turboprops added to the fleet.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Great to see Adria growing and expanding!

    ReplyDelete
  30. This is also great news for Ljubljana Airport which desperately needs more destinations (and airlines of course)

    ReplyDelete
  31. Here is the new logo of Adria Airways Switzerland (ex. Etihad Regional)
    http://www.routesonline.com/airlines/12417/adria-airways-switzerland/

    ReplyDelete

EX-YU Aviation News does not tolerate insults, excessive swearing, racist, homophobic or any other chauvinist remarks or provocative posts with the intention of creating further arguments. A full list of comment guidelines can be found here. Thank you for your cooperation.