Monday, January 15, 2018

Air Serbia flights to Toronto unlikely in 2018


Toronto Pearson Airport has said that Air Serbia will not operate flights between Belgrade and the Canadian city this summer season, despite talks taking place between the two sides. Speaking to EX-YU Aviation News, a spokesman for the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, Robin Smith, said, "At this time, Air Serbia service will not be starting this summer, but we will continue to work with Air Serbia to find an opportunity to add Toronto Pearson as one of their newest travel destinations". Mr Smith added, "We will make an announcement in cooperation with Air Serbia if there is any future development of service to Toronto Pearson". As EX-YU Aviation News learns, the Serbian carrier gave up on the idea last month.

The Serbian government said last November that Air Serbia is considering Toronto as its second long haul route after New York. It noted that preparations for the new service were underway and in the advanced planning stages, however, it emphasised that there was still a lot of work to be done and the carrier would still need to be granted regulatory approval. In December, the Serbian Minister for Construction, Transport and Infrastructure, Zorana Mihajlović, said the government was anticipating the introduction of flights to Canada in 2018. "We are talking to and working with Canada to try and secure nonstop flights", she said. The Canadian Ambassador to Serbia, Philip Pinnington, noted that while there is a common interest for flights to be resumed between the two countries, it is ultimately up to the respective carriers from each nation to determine whether such a service would be commercially viable.

Air Serbia has never officially confirmed its intention to launch flights to Toronto. Last October it said, "We are seriously considering expanding our destination network with another long haul service. Of course, a final decision concerning this matter will be made in the coming period". In 2016, the now former President and CEO of the Etihad Aviation Group, James Hogan, said the Serbian carrier could expand its footprint in North America in either 2018 or 2019. "We have already considered flights to Chicago and Toronto and these services could be introduced in two to three years. First off, the New York route must become functional. We don't want to make a decision that would set Air Serbia back", Mr Hogan said at the time. Air Serbia will boost its long haul operations this summer by adding an additional weekly flight to New York for a total of six. Services between Toronto and Belgrade were last operated by Skyservice in 2007. Prior to that, JAT Yugoslav Airlines maintained operations from Belgrade to both Toronto and Montreal from the 1970s until the break-up of the former Yugoslavia.

135 comments:

  1. Oh what a surprise!

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  2. Sooner or later someone else will start it and it will be too late for them.

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  3. It would be impossible to do it with 1 A330, especially now that they will be flying New York 6x per week.

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    1. They could have leased a second A330.

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    2. With what money exactly? If you haven't noticed they are cutting costs to save money. Do you know how expensive it would be to lease another wide body?

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  4. They will probably launch it next year. And if anyone was in doubt about Air Serbia's future, Vucic gave an interview last night where he talked about Air Serbia as well and said that the state will always support the airline. He said under Vinci it will have a passenger share of 40-48% in BEG.

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    1. Great news, glad to keep on giving my money to the Air Serbia project and make Vučić happy!

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    2. Happy tax payer, yes because we need this airline! It gives us more back than the money spent on it!

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    3. says who? oxford economics? the same shi**y report that hogan was showing to arabs until he got kicked out?

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    4. true, the cheese in the sandwiches is local and supports the Serbian economy when Balkan people connect in BEG and get it. imagine if the fuel get also localized :D

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    5. Sve sto se potrosi u Srbiji je mnogo vece od donacija kompaniji. Samo nasi "poreski" obaveznici to ne znaju kao i nista drugo o ekonomiji posto uglavnom ne rade i ne privredjuju.

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    6. drže, ovde pričamo o substitutima i efikasnosti ekonomije.

      - da ne leti JU leteo bi neko drugi na velikom delu tih ruta i taj efekat se ne bi gubio

      - neefikasne rute ne treba da postoje. multiplikator avioindustrije je bedan

      - bacanjem novca na neefikasnu kompaniju se pre finansira iznajmljivanje i maintenance, koji su daleko veći troškovi od bilo čega drugog

      -država ne bi trebla da bude ta koja će da pravi biznis, to treba da radi privatan kapital, a nijedan privatnik na svetu ne bi uložio u JU biznis model ikada

      - za tih par desetina miliona € koje spali JU se godišnje mogu zaposliti hiljade ljudi

      - substitut u rafineriji za proizvodnju goriva je dizel (srednji destilati su oba). dizel se u srbiju uvozi u velikim količinama. da je potražnja manje jet fuela, komotno bi se to zamenilo dizelom i smanjio trgovinski deficit srbije

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    7. Residents of Macedonia, Bosnia, Albania, Montenegro, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece and Lebanon would like to thank from the bottom of their hearts the Serbian tax payers!
      They are subsidizing their travels to the rest of Europe and especially the US!
      Thank you!

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    8. Po tebi treba davati pare poreskih obaveznika da bi se letelo sa lcc kompanijama. Vecina tih ruta je neefikasna i radi se o dovodjenju navodnih turista, a najcesce gastosa
      iz tih krajeva. Tako sirotinja u Tuzli finansira dolazak gastosa iz Nemacke i Skandinavije i slicno je u Nisu i Skoplju.

      US su isfinansirale sve gubitke svojih velikih aviokompanijama toliko ne znas o avio saobracaju.

      O rafinerijama i avio gorivu i o ustedama, tih desetak milona dolara spali samo Novi Sad u Srbiji kamo li Beograd.

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    9. @ AnonymousJanuary 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM

      Don't you get tired posting the same thing over and over again?

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    10. @ AnonymousJanuary 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM

      +1000

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    11. Anon 12:14, i thought croatians Didnt fly air Serbia?

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  5. It would be a wise idea for ASL to focus on further developing NYC as a destination. The route performance has been improving as of lately and 6 x flights per week is a respectful frequency. Besides, it would be hard to compete with AT and Air Canada, given that most Bosnians, Slovens and Croats would probably use them from ZAG at this point in 2018 - the prices are decent and the route has been put up on sale in September.

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    1. Slovenes sure but I see Bosnians only from north-western Bosnia using the service. I mean western Bosnia is closer to Belgrade while those from around Mostar would use Star Alliance flights from DBV.

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    2. Agreed. It's better to focus on JFK until it becomes profitable as a destination. I also think it would be better to convert the A330 to all economy and become like UX or DY.
      The idea of JU becoming a hybrid LCC is better.

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    3. Why would they do that when their business class loads have been good?

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    4. ASL pretty much has a monopoly in the Ex Yu as of now, with decent product and competitive prices. It's still ways from making the route sustainable year round, so IMO this is good and rational course of action, at least for now...
      As far as YYZ, Zagreb and the surrounding market - my response to anonymous 9:14 is that I partially agree in that it depends on the exact location of bosnian citizens. Some may simply drive to Zagreb (Banja Luka wider area), while others from central BiH may fly with OU (Sarajevo) and catch Air Canada morning connection. OU and AC are both star alliance members and these flights go hand in hand upon departure from ZAG. As far as the return leg...well, that will be a bit less convenient given that flights to SJJ don't leave before 14:45 or so from ZAG...and that's quite a long wait. Theoretically, this would leave them a few hours to snoop around Zagreb, but it's not allowed to simply "leave" the transfer zone I suppose ? Who would know ? thanks

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    5. But if they have to drive to SJJ why should they chose OU-Rouge combination and not, let's say, Turkish or Austrian? What competitive advantage will the ZAG connection have over the other already existing offers?

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    6. U cemu je problem u napustanju transferene zone za gradjane BiH?

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    7. Мислим да нема проблема. Једноставну прођу пасошку контролу као и сви остали. То је једино немогуће за грађане којима су потребне визе.

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    8. @anonymous 9:28 - well, it depends on when they buy those tickets and what prices turn up. AC has very competetive prices on this YYZ-ZAG-YYZ route. Some people may drive together in one car (2 or 3 people, less cost per person), or the ticket SJJ-ZAG-YYZ-ZAG-SJJ may be competetive, so they'll just fly from and to SJJ. The tickets will not be competetive to everyone in BiH all the time, I am just saying there's potential to attract a portion of central BiH, as well as the western part of BiH.
      They could even use Air Transat if they choose to drive. Weekly number of seats out of ZAG will be 260 pax on average every day of the month - that's respectable and pricing may do the job.

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    9. My point is that OS, TK and LH will not sit idle and just leave Rouge and Transat to take over the market. They might become more aggressive in neighbouring airports.

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    10. Belgrade - Toronto flights will happen sooner or later because of the huge diaspora. What do Slovenia and Bosnia have to do with Belgrade. Flights to New York from Belgrade are being filled primarily by Serbs, Montenegrins, Albanians, Romanians and Greeks. It would be the same case with Toronto.

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  6. No shock there. Everyone who is close to the airline knew it was not going to happen this summer season or anytime soon. The airline is struggling and now with the Boeings leaving the fleet it will be even more difficult for them to cope with new market realities. I still don't know how they plan on operating all those charter flights with just two B733s.

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    1. 733 from Aviolet?

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    2. ANJ left the fleet and ANI is next (02.02 scheduled retirement) so they will have 2 in stead of 4 Boeings this summer.

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    3. Do you know exactly when those boeings are going to leave ? Thanks a lot.

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    4. YU-ANJ was supposed to have its last flights yesterday while in the system it writes that YU-ANI is supposed to leave on the second of February.

      YU-AND and YU-ANK are supposed to stay for the summer. There is a plan to lease two more aircraft to run charters but those cost so... we will see.

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    5. it is unbelievable that such a thing wasn't announced

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    6. I don't think they would want to draw attention to the age of the aircraft.

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    7. Petar, why is it unbelivable to not announce a plane retirement haha? Do you think someone cares except us? A very few people.

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    8. Erm... look at all the fuss that happened when LH was retiring their Bobby.

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    9. end of an era really

      i think those 737s were even leased in africa during 90's to keep the company alive.

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    10. Petar Čelik... ako Bog ima i malo milosti da se smiluje pa da ti podari nešto pozitivno. Još nisam sreo a ni video nekoga sa toliko negativne energije.

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    11. I work for travel agency that rents aviolet. They told us they will do the season with 2 boings who will fly 3 times x day. And that sometimes maybe some other airbus will jump in. We wanted to rent foreing air line company but we know they will not have permission to fly.

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    12. Im 38 and my first flight on a plane as a kidster in 87 or 88 was on one of these brand new boeings...makes me a bit emotional that that they retire them 🙂

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  7. Etihad could have flown AUH-BEG-YYZ.

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    1. No it couldn't. It could never fly between BEG and YYZ because neither Serbia or UAE have a free sky agreement with Canada.

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    2. And Canada was very adamant about Etihad and Emirates not getting additional frequencies

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  8. Seasonal demand has been proven courtesy of Sky Service a few years back, the hype and route publicity generated, so pretty easy for a Canadian airline to simply step-in now and eat the cake.

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  9. thank you ex-Yu for giving some people a reality check.

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    1. You mean for making haters happy?

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    2. No, I like JU. Have flown with them many times and think they are a good company (even now when most people here are overdramatizing the size of the on board sandwich). BUT I don't get when people start making up that they have requested slots at YYZ and are choosing engine options for the second A330. What's the point?

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  10. Good news for ASL.

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  11. where is the air Serbia crew, serving flight JFK-BEG? Are there resting in the plane to JFK or are there already in JFK?

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    1. They stay at a hotel in New York. They have layovers.

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    2. What do you mean exactly? Air Serbia rotates its crew in New York, they don't return with the same flight. They stay at the Mariott.

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. On some long-distance trips to the Caribbean, I noticed that the seats in the back of the plane are completely covered with curtains. I often wondered that the crew is for the return flight or for whatever reason

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    5. JU has those as well, all airlines have that when operating flights on aircraft without a dedicated crew rest area.

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    6. LOL Yes, they sleep in the place while they wait for the return flight :D

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    7. I think this is a very good and valid queation.
      What do other airlines do long haul regarding crew for the return flight when they operate to a certain destination only once a week? Crew cant get 7 days of paid holidays each time?
      For example OS VIE SEZ VIE route?

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    8. Of course they get paid Holiday.. thats whu the crew to these destinations (e.g. OS crew to MLE, SEZ, HAV) always have full bunch of travel partners on board who enjoy together with them paid holiday vacation. So many example like TK flight to TNR (Madagascar) via MRU (Mauritius). TK crew flies to MRU stays 2 days then take again TK flight MRU-TNR-MRU on a day trip and then stays again for 2 days in MRU and then return back to IST. Been on that route and talked them abt it. They simply love it since they really have paid vacation. ;-).. ED

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  12. I think it's a good decision for now. It doesn't look as if any Canadian airline will start these flights this year (they would have announced it already) so there is no need to rush.

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    1. But they could come next summer. They make their announcements in September. And with Air Canada/Air Transat covering Croatia and Bosnia in Zagreb, there is not going to be a lot of space for them.

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    2. How exactly are they covering Bosnia? A part of Bosnia is more like it.

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    3. Ok part of Bosnia, you are right. But come to think of it there is still Montenegro, Albania and Macedonia that they can cover.

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    4. Unfortunately OU's network in those markets is weak and there are no indications that will change any time soon. They even suspended PRN.

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  13. Main issue is lack of aircraft.

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    1. Lack on money is a bigger issue.

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    2. Main issue is lack of €€€.

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    3. That would be an issue in summer, but in winter they could easily serve JFK and YYZ with one A332.

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    4. And what after that winter? Cancel YYZ to go back to JFK 6x a week?

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    5. I said it would be an issue in summer. The only option would be to operate 3x New York and 3x per week Toronto if they were to do it with a single plane.

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    6. So, absolutely unrealistic. What's the point of launching a route which you can't maintain in the peak summer season?

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    7. They could keep the same frequencies in summer. The only difference is that yield would be higher.

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  14. Nakon B77L i A340, navodno flotu ETD napustaju i A332. Videcemo sta ce biti ali ne izgleda dobro po buduce operacije ASL ako se ovo pokaze kao tacno.

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    1. A340 je predvidjen da napusti flotu jos pre pola godine
      https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/56067-etihad-to-end-a340-ops-by-october-2017

      Avion se pokazao kao tatlni promasaj Airbus-a i ne proizvodi se vise.

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    2. Yes, all the planes are leaving their fleet... Don't think so. Don't trust everything you read on internet forums. If we were to do that then BEG-JFK was to be suspended in its first year.

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  15. Better luck next year.

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  16. so.....Toronto this summer, right? hah...and when someone wrote that here that not gonna happen just few weeks ago you people said we hate everything connected with Serbia. Let's try to be realistic!

    Best wishes from Zagreb! (and yeah, I'm sure we will not have direct flights from Zagreb to US this year ;) )

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    1. it will come at last dont worry, and it wont be seasonal ;)

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  17. No worries JU, there is no need to rush by launching YYZ which, at the end of the day, is a seasonal destination. It's better to focus on becoming more legacy and renewing the fleet. Upgrade ATR to newest ATR-600, become all economy, upgrade to A320neo, focus on Ukraine and CIS, Romania. Consider INI, forget about freebies and fake luxury, focus on all wi-fi fleet. Convert Aviolet to LCC and launch on busier routes.

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    1. Boze gluposti osim nabavke polovnih ATR 72-500 i nekog polovnog A321 za aviolet ako ima od neke od propalih aviokompanija.Kakva Rumunija da ima leba tamo bi leteo LH na svaki aerodrom.


      I nemoj samo neko da mi pominje q400 pre neki dan je opet sleteo bez prednjeg tocka. http://avherald.com/h?article=4b377c21

      Kao i na domacem Orlu postoji neka teska gresak u stajnom trapu.

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    2. Alen Šćuric PurgerJanuary 15, 2018 at 11:25 AM

      Aviolet as LCC in competition with Wizz Air, easyJet, Transavia, Ryanair, Eurowings, Norwegian... And with 31+ years old 737-300.

      They would bankrupt in a second.

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  18. A codeshare with Air Canada would now be very beneficial from any European point to YYZ.

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    1. So people can travel more easily.

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    2. and for Air Serbia to earn some money.

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    3. ASL have an interline with AC for at least couple of years. They offer transfer through several cities, very decent prices and two suitcases. Everyone I know here in Toronto and surrnding area used them over LH.

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  19. Regardless of Toronto, their usage of widebodies must become far more efficient during the winter.

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    1. Introducing 2 weekly Toronto next winter season would make sense, along with 3-4 weekly NYC.

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  20. I wonder if there would be any chance of securing rights to do BEG-YYZ-ORD-BEG (obviously without the rights to sell tickets on YYZ-ORD) and/or the other way around. I know this is tricky with two foreign regulatory agencies involved... but If they combined the two destinations they could have outstanding loads and good yields.

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    1. Canada would not allow it. They are very protective of their skies and national airline.

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  21. Sinisa Mali will be next Air Serbia CEO.

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    1. This will be the worse that can happen to ASL

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    2. lol, this would be an interesting turn :)

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    3. It would happen if Etihad pulls out or if they keep basic functions like loyalty.

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    4. Actually it makes sensei. Vučić told that Mali won't be the next mayor of Belgrade on his own request. Vučić added that Mali is getting ready for a new job with great responsibilities and that he will work in Belgrade.

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    5. If that happens, it will be back to the days of Jat with political appointees who know nothing about aviation ...

      That said, nothing would surprise me and it will probably happen

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    6. He also confirmed BEG would get second runway in between current runway and current taxiway. Horrible temporary solution that will make it easier to repair current runway and later use both similar to Gatwick but not for simultaneous ops. Cheap and horrible solution when there is land on the west side for proper second runway.

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    7. They will build something like this. Top runway is existing one. Second one is inserted between existing rwy and existing taxiway:

      https://s9.postimg.org/rpozcrmf3/ant1.jpg

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    8. Can they be used simultaneously?

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    9. Can they be used simultaneously?

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    10. Can they be used simultaneously?

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    11. no, they are too close. inserted rwy won't have ils, so you can use it for departures while old one can be used for arrivals but not at the same time.

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    12. @AnonymousJanuary 15, 2018 at 11:00 PM

      Is that second yellow box on the far right possible location of a new terminal?

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    13. I really doubt they would built such a second runway, in such a position. Effectively they would get like 1.1 or 1.2 times of runway capacity in an operational sense. Considering the costs for it, that would be plain stupid.

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  22. A second long haul route would have significantly increased costs. Apart from leasing a second plane, any long-haul expansion should be followed with the strengthening of the regional network. That would mean they would hav to expand the regional fleet and they obviously don't have the money to do that.

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  23. Pitty. YYZ-BEG. 2-3 times per week would have been great for everyone

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    1. U Kanada ima samo oko 30000 Srba sto znaci da nema ogromne dijaspore. Slicno je to kao i sa Maltom. Dijaspora nije lojalna tako da direktan let nista ne znaci kad LH spusti cenu 50 jura, jer mogu.

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    2. Not true, there are much more especially 2nd and 3rd generations, allthough they may consider themselves as canadians now they do still have cultural ties with serbia, and a direct link with belgrade could help them visit serbia more often and strenghten their bonds to the homeland. If you take into account all the yugoslavs (majority of them from serbia) it will be much more aswell.

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    3. Pretjerujes.
      Zasto bi iz NY letio za BEG pa cekao daljnje konekcije za ZAG pa dalje za SPU, kad mogu sa Lufticom prek FRA odmah za SPU?

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  24. PVG would have made more sense than another North American destination.

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    1. Why? Who on earth would fly on that route?

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    2. ORD is the second biggest market in North America, right after New York so it would make sense to go there.

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    3. Chinese tourists and businessmen.
      The shame type of passengers that fly on the BEG-BUD-PEK route.

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    4. You do know that Shanghai is the business capital of a country with the population of 1.4 billion, soon to be world's number one economy? If any intercontinental route makes sense, then it's one to PVG (or Hongqiao).

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  25. Nije ovo jedini aerodrom u torontu. Možda jeste glavni, a možda su pregovori prebačeni na letenje ka sekundarnom.

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    1. No, they have cancelled plans to fly to Toronto.

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    2. LOL!
      The secondary one only accepts regional jets, not transatlantic flights.

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    3. The second airport is so called Island airport, very centrally, almost city core, wiht a lot of bussinesses and residential buildings arround. Currently only Q400 is landing there due to short runway and severe noise restriction.

      There are other airports in and around Toronto but none of them are commercial type.

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  26. They really need to join an alliance if they want more North America flyers and destinations.

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    1. +1.000.000
      This is 2018, how many non-LCC carriers are left outside of alliances?

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  27. Air Serbia long haul plans with multiple aircraft should have been in place from day one when Etihad joined. Either multiple planes or no long haul at all. Single plane is not a sustainable solution while competition is going after them. Starting with 2-3 planes in 2014 would be a lot more costly and difficult but if EY supported it at that time, Air Serbia would by now have solid long haul network able to compete in the region against LO and the likes

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    1. Or would be bankrupt by now ... which would be a morel likely outcome. One strong route with a full plane is a better solution IMO

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    2. Two strong routes are better than one, and three are better and two. That would not bankrupt then if they planned with EY and Govt on supporting couple of planes from the start. Remember LOT almost shut down WAW-BEG in the winter of 2014? Then they resisted Air Serbia competition on the route, then kicked them out, and slowly expanded to what will soon be double daily. Almost all of it was built on expanding LO long haul transfers. That's exactly what JU should have set out to do from day 1.Instead of making long haul expansion a cornerstone of Air Serbia strategy, they played with failed and costly experiments like 2-2 business class with sparse economy, failed destinations like Budapest, Varna and Abu Dhabi, extremely expensive wet leasing of 2 A6 A319 and expecting approval for EY codeshare to the USA via AUH in 2013. This last one is FAR more stupid than starting long haul with couple of planes.

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  28. Just curious where are those 'insiders' who were saying that preparations are already under way at YYZ

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  29. Odredjene insajderske informacije govore o tome da je Kondic bas zbog uvodjenja leta za Kanadu dao otkaz jer se sa tim nije slagao.
    Izgleda da JU za sad odoleva pritisima da uvede ovu liniju

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    1. Kondic se pokazao bas kao veliki poznavalac, sem srozavanja servisa i ukidanja linija nije nista drugo uradio.

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    2. Не заборавимо сав онај народ што је протерао из фирме.

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  30. most disappointing news i heard.. i hate that there was so much talk and bringing up hope to so many that this will happen in 2018..now we have to wait and pray it comes sometime in the future

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  31. So, no Toronto flights, no 2nd A330, no Teheran flights.

    Jatovanje again!

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    Replies
    1. Restarting flights to BUD, WAW and IEV is far more important than IKA.

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    2. How about VAR?

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