Wednesday, August 21, 2013

Croatia Airlines to be sold

Garuda Indonesia interested in Croatia Airlines stake

Despite previous plans not to privatise the Croatian national carrier until at least 2015, the country’s Ministry for Sea, Transport and Infrastructure is set to launch tender procedures for the airline’s sale by October 15. According to Croatian media reports, Garuda Indonesia and China Southern Airlines are interested in purchasing a stake in Croatia Airlines. A high ranking government delegation will travel to the Indonesian capital Jakarta next week upon the invitation of the Indonesian government where the sale of Croatia Airlines will be discussed. Tender procedures are likely to run until February 2014.

It is the first time plans have been made for the sale of Croatia Airlines, a move previously ruled out. The airline has had a difficult year so far as it faced industrial action from employees and has been forced to cut down on its route network and fleet. Furthermore, Croatia Airlines has seen it its revenue and passenger numbers decline so far this year. With Croatia recently becoming a European Union member, the national carrier faces a more competitive market with strict limitations on government aid.

In addition to Croatia Airlines, China Southern Airlines is also eying a possible stake in Adria Airways. While the tender for the sale of a majority stake in Adria was carried out last year, the results have never been made public. The Slovenian government aims to sell Adria by the end of the year. So far, only two national carriers in the former Yugoslavia have been privatised. In 2008 Turkish Airlines bought a stake in B&H Airlines. However, the Bosnian national carrier was renationalised last year when the Turks left, unhappy with the government’s attitude towards the partnership. This year Etihad Airways bought a stake in Jat Airways. Whether Croatia Airlines will be successful in its quest remains to be seen but with a large leisure market, solid fleet and plenty of potential to expand, the airline could garner some interest.


  1. I guess Jat and Serbia passed on the torch onto Croatia and Croatia Airlines when it comes to announcing random airlines interested in the national carrier.

  2. So a government delegation gets a holiday to Indonesia on the pretext of selling an airline that is in the process of major contraction and leaching money due to miss management and corruption just at the time when the Indonesian currency is in free-fall against the US$ and has major recession indicators. The next thing we will hear is that OU is buying airships painted pink to look like giant pigs to replace the A319's

    1. Croatia Airlines fleet in 2014

    2. @admin

      Croatia Airlines to be sold!?

      Not to be sold, 49% steak in the airline to be sold for 1 billion kuna.

      This was on the cards for some time now, only thing we didn't know that it was Garuda Indonesian, we got to look at deal on the table, Croatian needs to pay Croatian Government back some billion kuna, so this will also come to play if Garuda or China Southern buys in to Croatian Airlines.

      In all honesty I can't see Garuda buying or spending 2 billion kuna ($300 million), considering they've got their own issues at home and rather bad network to start with.

      China Southern Airlines would be something, they were eying the region for a while now and with Ethiad taking over JAT, LOT (talks ongoing), Lingus, Korean over Czech Airlines, new Hungarian airlines being financed by most likely Qatar air and scores of smaller European airlines going bust, would be nice to see OU gets someone interested in it.

      China Southern Airlines would be best option or OU and current government should tread lightly, try to get best possible deal for OU and Croatia.

      Zagreb new airport terminal is about to be built and it'll be the biggest terminal in the region by far with world class design and capacity to boot. It would be only appropriate for major airlines to start calming their stake in Zagreb.

      That being said, I don't think Zagreb Airport will become major hub if China Southern Airlines takes over, sure China Southern Airlines will initiate few long distance flights from China, Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong might be on the table, but realistically speaking not much would change from what we've got now, Czech Air being taken over Korean Air should gives a clue what might happen with Croatian if China Southern takes over.


      EU laws are quite simple, 49% steak is all China can get and with 49% steak you can't run an airline if the host State doesn't wish it.

      lets see how all this works out before jumping in to the fray, Jutarnji list is least likely source to come with a news in Croatia, if this was reported by the Vecenji List, sure I'd be more accepting of being relevant, but the fact it was written by jutarnji List, i remain sceptic.

    3. The new Zagreb airport (if ever built) will still be smaller than BUD or BEG (that will further develop in the mean-time) but even if it had the capacity of 20 million pax, what makes you think that's what'll usher airline to launch flight there? Pure nonsense.

    4. @AnonymousAugust 21, 2013 at 2:53 PM

      How are current 2 Belgrade airport terminals lager than future Zagreb airport, and what makes you think that Belgrade will expand beyond what it is now.

      there are no plans announced to my knowledge unless this is your imagination running wild.

      Current 2 terminals at Belgrade airport are 46000sqm, new Zagreb terminal will be 72000sqm, and old 21000sqm.

      So if old one is used by the LCCs and domestic flights and new terminal for everything else, this would make both terminals near 93000sqm.

      If only new terminals is used than still this terminal will remain largest on its own in ex-yu and best looking.

      And new terminal will also expand once traffic exceeds 5 million pax, additional 6 PBBs will be added (terminal will expand by additional 5000 sqm) and capacity increased at fist to 8 million with 3rd stage expansion terminal will get an 370m pier extension and expand by further 10 000sqwm to its maximum size of 87500sqm. Stage 4 calls for new terminal and 2nd runway, and it won't be reached before 2040.

      Budapest is expanding dramatically, new 40 000sqm terminal was just added and additional 40 000sqm terminal is planned, when completed Budapest will have just under 100 000sqm, both terminals.

      But at this point works on skycourt have stopped until investors can be found for the project.


      this is what it will look like when completed,

      A long term plan is to add a 3rd terminal, (2nd terminal as 1st terminal is no longer used) that will look almost identical to sky-court but will have additional 400m pier extension, increasing pax to 20+ million.

    5. Belgrade airport is adding two additional parking spaces next to the last gate on the C side. These will be initially used by lowcost carriers or airlines which do not want to use airbridges. However, in the future as demand grows the airport can simply increase the terminal building at add gates C7 and C8.

      Thinking about that, Belgrade should really think about its future. This year they will come close to 3,500,000 passengers and if I am not mistaken Terminal 2's capacity is 5,000,000 passengers.

    6. They are building a whole new floor on top of T2. There have even been renders

    7. @AnonymousAugust 21, 2013 at 5:14 PM

      do you have any pictures i can see what a future plans are for Belgrade airport.

      BTW, I love airport infrastructure, and follow news regarding airport expansion in the EU and Europe in general, so its more out of interests that I am asking not to compare.

      I just like what some airports have done, like Budapest and Bucharest airports, Sofia Airport has interesting take on their expansion and Warsaw airport is quite interesting to me, as i can't possibly see where they can expand further with the current airport as space is quite limited, unless they do what Heatheow is doing and buying homes in local villages that around it with aim of eventually knock all down to build 3rd and 4th runway in not to distant future.

      This is what Zagreb airport will look like by 2016.

      floor plan

      and architectural pdf report

      Whole thing is going to be massive, 5 levels, and 3 level underground garage for 1600 cars.

      some impressive stats for new terminal.

      Main building will be 155x165m with piers to either end extending to 670m with future phase 2 370m extension, for total of 12 +(6) +(8 phase 3) passenger boarding bridges.

      8500m2 of photovoltaic solar panels that will generate 10-15% of all energy needs of the airport and 64 mini wind turbine that will add extra eco energy credentials.

      At night terminal will glow in blue, read, green and purple lights depending on occasions and events being held in Zagreb, internally place will be full of green plants and water features that should make travel a lot easier for any would be visitor.

      Basically terminal will look out of this world.

      2nd runway and 2nd terminal are also planned and can be seen as part of architectural briefing.

      There'll be an underground tram link/light rail link to Zagreb city center.

      Very exciting about this.

    8. @Anonymous at 5:04 PM
      Man, oh man...
      Don't you think you are a bit biased ?
      New terminal works did not even start yet, and once/if they start it will take 2 or so years to be completed.
      There is a good saying -Prvo skoči pa reci hop... All the best.
      "Zagreb new airport terminal is about to be built and it'll be the biggest terminal in the region..."
      "And new terminal will also expand once traffic exceeds 5 million pax,..."

    9. @AnonymousAugust 21, 2013 at 6:35 PM

      Well construction works on new terminal should start in early September, will take 3 years to complete and once airport passes 5 million mark it'll be expanded, phase 2 envisages adding extra slots on left pier, i.e additional 6 passenger boarding bridges and small add on the terminal.

      Phase 2b right pier is to be extended by 350-370m and 6-8 additional passenger boarding bridges will be added there, this is when Airport passes 8 million mark, around 2027/28.

      A new terminal will be added and 2nd runway when airport hits 12-15 million pax, around 2040 or 2050.

      These are the plans.

      They might knock down terminal 1 in meantime.

    10. AnonymousAugust 21, 2013 at 6:21 PM

      I can't find them now but I do know that Belgrade airport published them on their website some months ago. You can either contact the airport or check out their archive.

      As for the two additional parking spots, they are almost complete if I am not mistaken. I wonder which other airlines besides Wizz Air might use them; I suppose easyJet and Pegasus?

    11. I really hope there will be some solution for BEG airport soon as weel. Either they should totally reurbanize/replan the Surcin-Tesla airport, or look for some completely new location for Belgrade airport - near Pancevo or something like that. A serious airport today needs at least two runways (last time they renovated the runway at Tesla traffic was relocated to Belgrade Batajnica airport). It also needs far more pleace for extra-airport facilities, such as it is hotel, business centre, small shopping mall, far more parking space, railway connection... On the other hand, the location near Pancevo would be an problem for passangers from Novi Sad? So maybe the smartest decision would be to put the airport somewhere between Belgrade and Novi Sad and to buil a fast train connection between Novi Sad and Belgrade, with a stop at the new BEG airport.

    12. @AnonymousAugust 21, 2013 at 10:31 PM

      Current location is perfect, no point moving something that works perfect, and construction of new major international airport would be something Serbia can't afford, runway alone (Cat IIIB) would set Serbia back by $200 million, than add new terminal another $300 million + 250 000sqm platform, fuel storage and cargo terminal another $150 million, u're talking at least $600-700 million, I doubt it would be smart thing for Serbia to move from present location. O yeah there's issue of buying private land as well, another major costs.

      Current location is fine and you can add easy another 4km runway, another terminal can be added adjacent to current one although you can't build an airport city at the airport as there's no space unless you knock down that are where what looks like a carting ring 2km north-east from terminal.

      Also you can put nice airport business hotel there, Marriott or holiday inn or something.

      Only problem, right now is that current terminal is ugly as hell, and looks like something right out of communist Russia, soulless and ugly as hell.

      Perhaps you can do what Budapest did knock bits down and re-design things a bit, make it look nice and modern, even that option is quite expensive.

      For something like this Belgrade airport would need to find a good partner and considering right now its a recession its gonna be hard finding, perhaps UAE government can help out there.

      U won't get a world class terminal, for that you need to spend $300-320 million, but you could get something Pristina is getting, for $180 million.


    13. Well, nobody actually said that Serbia would have to pay for the new airport.. and above all there are some spendings which are high (metro network, airports, universities, flood facilities, optical lines), but profitable and necessary in long terms. The current Belgrade airport deals with some serious fog problems, and doesn´t have enough space to build up all business, cargo, hotel etc. facilities.

    14. Plenty of space and fog is something you going to have to live with, you got loads of flat land around Belgrade so you have to adapt .

      To move entire airport just case of fog is stupid, and there's loads of space, Belgrade Airport area is so empty you can build whole new airport there and still have plenty of space, only issue where i can see is that museum thing, it occupies prime airport land, i'd tore that down and empty that space for expansion in future.

    15. There is absolutely no need to even think of a new location for Belgrade airport. The current one is more than ok, especially since it's located right next to the highway and hopefully soon it will be linked with the Belgrade ring. Moving it to Pancevo is a bad idea as the airport would be located in Vojvodina. In other words the administration of the airport would fall into the hands of the highly corrupt bureaucrats in Novi Sad. No thank you.

    16. Pančevo has actually been transfered to central goverment jurisdiction. But anyway, Surčin is the perfrct spot. Especially since Mubdala may make a fab there. Moving the airport to Pančevo would kill that deal.

  3. it wont help to keep all those carriers alive, some need to disappear in order for the others to Progress. In Europe we have too many airlines and the aviation market is def not a healthy one.

    Garuda just recovering from own Problems (rememeber they were not even allowed to fly to the EU), exactly this carrier wants no a stake in OU..give me a brake.

    Again Air Serbia being now a strong player in the region, Solyom also a carrier with middle eastern support, Czechs with KE in the back, the only chance to survive I see, is if OU/JP/BA/YM join forces or BA/YM even disappear.
    2 strong Carriers for the former YU region is enough.

    1. I am sorry but joining a bunch of dysfunctional carriers together won't solve the problem, it will only make it worse. An alliance between these ex-Yugoslav carriers would be doomed from the start.

      I see that Croatia Airlines has a chance of surviving while I give Air B&H, Montenegro Airlines and Adria maximum two years.

    2. BA and YM will chase their operations by 2015 winter season I am sure, and if OU doesn't get any help they will go even faster... JP will live a little bit longer, but I don't see them turning into a sucsesfull&profiteble company. Air Serbia will turn into JAT from the 80s and they will be present in all EX YU airports. First Montenegro than Bosnia... And eventually Croatia.

    3. I agree with the above comment. However, I can see a flood of ex-YU nationals attacking him for being delusional. lol

      Just look at what happened in FYROM, they got rid of their own dysfunctional airlines and now they are doing more than fine. Why can't Slovenia, Bosnia and Montenegro do the same thing? Especially Slovenia where Adria has to face Wizz Air now.

    4. Last anonymous, stop trolling around.

    5. BA and YM will chase their operations by 2015 winter season I am sure, and if OU doesn't get any help they will go even faster... JP will live a little bit longer, but I don't see them turning into a sucsesfull&profiteble company. Air Serbia will turn into JAT from the 80s and they will be present in all EX YU airports. First Montenegro than Bosnia... And eventually Croatia.


      This is from the economical point of view a realistic scenario. However, with the name "Air Serbia" it will never come to happen. For me it is quite obvious that any other than the state´s name in the company´s brand could bring far more profit, more flights, more impact, more destinations in and from the region than a nationally styled company name "Air Serbia". That name is a direct stimulator for governmant in Montenegro, Sarajevo, and not to mention Zagreb, not to let their company´s fail and dissapear.

    6. MACEDONIA not fyrom you stupid idiot.

    7. @JU520 BEGLAXAugust 21, 2013 at 10:09 AM

      To a degree I agree, but I don't see Garuda taking 49%, China Southern on the other hand would be something. Gsaruda has no flights to Europe to speak off, and most likely they're interested in OU cause of Croatian national football squad being quite popular in South East Asia, and this is how they got to know about OU.

      Garuda would be a ppot choice for OU and vice versa. I think more serious offer would be if it came from China Southern.

      Merger of regional airlines is not possible, Adria and Croatian might hold talks over possible merger but in all honesty can't see it happening.

      Also Croatian air travel market is geared for mass tourism, so different set of priorities. Problem with the OU is internal mechanisms and really bad corruption, was OU run by someone from Germany or the UK with strong experience in airline industry (either working for BA or Lufthansa) Croatian Air would be a highly profitable airline with a fleet of 25 aircraft and 4 million passengers.

      I am so happy corruption in Croatia is finally being dealt with and things are getting there, still long way to go, but its only a matter of time before Croatia is attracting real business, and China Southern might be a spring-shoot of anti corruption drive, making Croatia safe for investors.

    8. @AnonymousAugust 21, 2013 at 10:16 AM

      U're a nationalist troll, not worth talking to.

      Air Serbia is just a minor acquisition for Ethiad, they're taking steak at LOT, just took stake in Aer Lingus and Air Berlin is their main priority.

      Air Serbia has no chance in the region cause of other airlines, a lot bigger players already staking their claims.

      Skopje Wizz air and Flydubai are about to create some sort of regional hub there, with Priistina feeling the pinch as a result of this new strategy.

      Sarajevo will remain a virgin territory for now, how long its matter of time.

      Belgrade - Wizz Air, Ethiad, Air Serbia

      Pristina - Adria Air, Wizz air (potentially)

      Podgorica/Tivat - Montenegro and perhaps Air Serbia might play a role there.

      Zagreb - Lufthansa, Austrian Air, Easy Jet, German Wings, Croatian Airlines and now British Air.

      Once Airport Paris takes over, Air France will try to claim bigger stake and KLM is also coming. Zagreb even is Croatian Airlines did go bankrupt, would do ok, and Croatian government would immediately launched a new airline, Croatian Air - most likely, we are talking inside 5 weeks, taking over OU's own slots at all major airports and the fleet but renaming is and re-branding it.

      Unlike Air Serbia and JAT, Croatian airlines in Croatia is seen as vital of national importance, i.e its not even a question whether to have a national airline in Croatia, its a must have!!!

      its like with the Air Swiss when it went bust, or Sabena. exactly the same thing.

      So stop dreaming of greater Serbia again.

    9. O.M.G. last anonymous, were you the delusional guy from yesterday who claimed all those airline will launch flights to Zagreb? :D

      As for Aer Lingus, you might want to check what kind of percentage Etihad has there. ;)

      'its like with the Air Swiss when it went bust, or Sabena. exactly the same thing. '

      Hahahahahhahaha are you seriously comparing Croatia to Belgium or Switzerland? No one will want to buy your precious Croatia Airlines. It will fail and your market will be divided between the bigger players. Naturally, unless Garuda steps in to save the day. :D :D :D

  4. U svakom slučaju Garuda jest kompanija koja se bitno izmjenila u posljednjih četiri godine. SkyTrax ih je čak nagradio sa nekoliko nagrada, među kojima za najveće napredovanje, te u 2012. za najbolju regionalnu kompaniju svijeta. Garuda ima 99 zrakoplova, najviše Boeinga, od čega 20 širokotrupaca, te još 39 naručenih. U Europu lete samo za Amsterdam, ne lete za SAD, u Australiji lete za Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth i Sydney, lete za dvije destinacije na Bliskom Istoku, te 13 destinacija na Dalekom Istoku. Dakle lete 33 domaće i 20 inozemnih destinacija. No, za Croatiu to bi bila najveća moguća glupost. Bolje da kompaniju odmah zatvore nego da tako što naprave.

    China Southern je već druga stvar. Kompanija je jedna od najvećih u svijetu, u prošloj godini prevezla je 76,5 milijuna putnika. Flota im ima 429 aviona, od čega 42 širokotrupca (među njima i A380, te 787), a imaju naručenih još 77 zrakoplova. Imaju i 8 cargo aviona. Baze su im u Pekingu, Guangzhou, Urumquiu i Chongqingu. Lete na 120 destinacija, od čega 6 u Europi (Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Istanbul, London, Moscow i Paris), 6 u Australiji i Novom Zealandu (Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Cairns, Auckland), 3 u SAD-u i Kanadi (Los Angeles, Chicago i Vancouver), 1 u Africi, te 43 u Aziji (bez Kine). U svakom slučaju jedina opcija za Croatiu bi bila kupovina od strane Kineza (Lufthansa više ne kupuje, Emirates je odlepršao u komšiluk, Koreanci su se istrošili na Čehe, Turci nešto baš i ne kupuju a i imaju loša iskustva u regiji, a ostali nemaju para). Sa Kinezima sigurno bi dobili:
    - liniju prema Kini
    - Kinezi bi preko Zagreba pokrili konekcije za Europu, Sjevernu Afriku i Bliski Istok gdje su vrlo kratki
    - Za očekivati je da bi Kinezi otvorili i New York i Toronto preko Zagreba (oni ove linije nemaju, trebaju ih, a sa stopom u ZAG linija bi bila win-win kombinacija)
    - preko Kine dobili bi odlične konekcije prema Dalekom Istoku (desetke linija), Zapadnoj Americi i Australiji

    Kinezi bi bilo daleko bolje rješenje nego što ga ima Jat u Etihadu (koji ih ipak guši u razvoju jer se prvenstveno temelji na svom razvoju i razvoju Air Berlina, dok bi Jat ipak bio pretežno feeder ovih kompanija).

    Obje kompanije su članovi SkyTeama. Ovo za Etihad ne treba uopće komentirati koliko je blentavo.

    Jedini problem je što su Kinezi pokazali i insteres za Adriju, pa od toga nije bilo apsolutno ništa. Čak ni preliminarni pregovori nisu pokazali rezultata. U svakom slučaju isto što sam rekao i za Jat u slučaju Etihada: Pokloniti im i to odmah, bez puno pitanja i bez ikakvih uvjeta. Odmah!!!!! Jedino rješenje za hrvatsko zrakoplovstvo i za opstanak CTN-a!

    1. Ma kinezi će za vas hrvate da otvore 100 novih destinacija. Ma ima da vam pošalju najmanje 5-6 A380ca kako bi opslužili svoje rute. LoL

    2. Јаој Пургеру сада једноставно лупаш. Нити ће Кинези нити ће Индонежани купити Кроацију, ово је једноставно државни трик да створе илузију да постоји купац пошто Кроација постаје сувише тежак терет на раменима хрватске државе.
      Да Кинези или било ко други жели да купи авио компанију у Европи онда би изабрао много боље кандидате него што је то Кроацијан. Само почев од ЛОТа, Тарома или ерБалтика или пак Олимпика кој тражи решење за своји кризу већ дуже време.

      Пусти нас тих прича о томе шта би они могли а шта не. Шта ти мислиш, да ће ико озбиљан купити Кроацијан док саобраћа са оног ћумеза званог Аеродром Загреб? Ма дај...

      А што се тиче Јата и Итихада, само бих хтео да додам да ће Ер Сербија постати фидер само за Азијска и Северноамеричка одредишта. Судећи по објавама будућег реда летења, Ер Сербија ће створити своје сопствено чвориште у Београду. Тако да не знам о чему причаш.

    3. First of all I also think that is just Government spin. But deal Jat-Etihad show us that dreams can become reality. Comparing to Jat, Croatia Airlines is much better company (less debt, new planes, potentials, image, European union, tourism, Croatia has much bigger BDP than Serbia, Croatia has 100% more air passangers than Serbia...). Still Etihad invest in dead company, with bad image, huge debt, ancient fleet (with no use which you can just put in garbage and have to invest in all new fleet, it is not same thing with CTN where you can use their planse for another 15-20 years). In that light investment in CTN is not so unreal. Of course it is so far from anything, but Jat-Etihad deal was just wet dream for Serbian politicians in March, and today? And yes, China invest everywhere, they have almost unlimited funds, and they want to make influence where ever they can. And to buy CTN is just a peanuts for them.

      Sure, China can invest in LOT, Air Baltic, TAP, TAROM, Olympic... But also Etihad could do that, and still they choose Jat. It is up to investment/potential/benefit mathematics. CTN is small and very cheap, potentials are not so bad, competition is not so high as in case of LOT, Olympic, TAROM... Still Croatia is in EU what is very important reason for potential investment in air company for someone from China.

      Why I think it is spin? Because our politicians just peeking out of German ass, and by this they try to influence Lufthansa to buy CTN, and it Lufhtansa will aks for CTN we will give them CTN for nothing. And that is disaster for CTN because in that case CTN will be just another Air Dolomiti with base in MUC and flights with Q400 to PUY, RJK, ZAD, SPU, DBV, ZAG, OSI.

      And by this writing that it is stupid, it will never happened, you are just the same as those «haters» which apriory called Jat-Etihad deal just another Jatovanje and that there is no way.

      I hope that Croatian government will understand that Jat-Etihad deal is huge danger for Croatian air traffic, and that only solution for Croatia is to give CTN it to China doesn't meter of conditions. Anything else would be quick death for CTN and Croatian air traffic.

      For sure Air Serbia will not be feeder as Croatia is to Lufthansa but you have to know that development can be only:
      - flights to Abu Dhabi, Berlin and Dusseldorf for connections to Etihad and Air Berlin, and one day to some other Etihad companies (Aer Lingus, LOT...)
      - flights do Southeast Europe for connections via BEG especially to Etihad and Air Berlin (Slovenia, Croatia, BiH, Montenegro, Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania)
      - flights which are not very well connected via Abu Dhabi, Berlin and Dussseldorf such as Turkey, Greece, North Africa, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, South Germany, Ukraine, west part of Middle East
      - high potential and niche lines for Serbia which will make huge LF and profit (Germany, Austrian, Switzerland and Paris for Diaspora, Moscow, London, some tourist routes...)

      But do not dream that Air Serbia will fly to Air Berlin destinations to North and Northwest from Germany, and for flights more than 2 hours from Germany, North America included (so where connection with Air Berlin is profitable), and to any destinations where connections with Etihad is profitable (East part of Middle East, Indian subcontinents, Australia, Far East, Chine, Africa).

    4. Nigde nije ni pomenuto da bi Kinezi mogli da kupe Croatiju. U clanku se govori o Garudi i Croatiji, i odvojeno o Adriji i Kinezima.

    5. I would agree mostly with the opinion provided by Purger, but there is one element forgotten almost by all participants and it is related to Etihad.
      Etihad made the investments up to now in many different airlines, but not at one's hub is geographically close to each other as it would be in the case that Etihad invests in CTN. Simply Belgrade is too close to Zagreb and Etihad already made their investment there. It looks like to me that Croatian politicians simply can't stand the fact that Jat managed to make a deal with Etihad and now try using these kind of news to show how they also have something to offer. According to my opinion it is too late now for deal with Etihad - nothing but a wet dream. If Etihad had not purchased Jat , we would not have seen this kind of articles at all.
      From the other side, it is true that OU has to offer more than JP to Chinese investors, but I would not say this deal is realistic.
      As mentioned above, it seems to be only the reaction on Etihad investment in Jat and their fear that Air Serbia might spread its wings wide over Croatia.

    6. Of course possibility of CTN deal with Etihad is so stupid that I even did not want to comment, that was just Minister wish, nothing else. That was what I said: "Ovo za Etihad ne treba uopće komentirati koliko je blentavo".

      Concerning Chinese you are not right, as in ExYU article, and Jutarnji list news was: "According to Croatian media reports, Garuda Indonesia and China Southern Airlines are interested in purchasing a stake in Croatia Airlines".

      And yes I totally agree with you that it is just reaction of our politicians to Etihad deal with Serbia. Unfortunately they did not react for years, but now when we are in deep shit. In 2010 I told minister and Croatian president that it is 5 minutes no midnight (gave them solutions), and after their inertion I just said that it is “the end for CTN and Croatian air traffic”. So they are so in hurry now (first announcement in August about possible tender in October). I just hope it is not just "excuse" to show that they also work something, but that it is reaction to danger of Etihad-Jat deal by which they finally understand how that deal can make Croatian air traffic dead in just few months, and that the only exit is to quick sell CTN to someone good enough and on that way to compensate Etihad-Jat deal. And the only way to do it is China or USA (the USA companies are not buying at the moment, and European companies are without money and they just want companies to be their feeder).

      So, here we have to scenarios:
      1. Quick bankrupts of CTN and disaster future of air traffic in Croatia
      2. To give company to Chinese (and only to Chinese) and that should be even better deal that one Etihad-Jat, what would reanimate CTN as clinical dead as it is now, the same way Etihad reanimated clinical dead Jat.

    7. @Purger
      just a thought, if Northern America is already profitable for AirBerlin with very poor AB feeding throughout SouthEast Europe i dont see why a launch of a N.American destination from BEG would harm AB . The only question here is , is the US/CAN - SouthEast Europe market big enough to justify those flights ?

    8. Absolutely agree with you. One more time: it is all mathematics.

      It there is enough passengers for that line it would be already open (by Delta, United, American, some European company). For sure there is option to make something like Belgrade-Berlin-New York, or Beijing-Zagreb-New York. But again, it is mathematic. If it is cheaper to have just BEG-TXL route with connections to JFK, ORD, YYZ... there will be no 1stope routes from BEG to North America. If Air China competition with direct route Beijing-New York is more profitable there would be no line via ZAG to JFK. But if BEG-TXL-JFK will attract more passengers and because of that will steal some of those from LH, BA, AF... than it is real option. If there are no enough passengers on PEK-ZAG route, not enough on ZAG-JFK, and not enough on PEK-JFK routes, but in combination PEK-ZAG-JFK can be good LF in both legs than for sure that is real. Of course including main condition that this option is profitable.

  5. Mislim da nije pristojno da neko anoniman potpisanom članu foruma govori da lupa i naziva zagrebački aerodrom ćumezom. Prosto nije u redu. Ovde smo da bismo razmenili mišljenja i dobili nove informacije a to znači da moramo biti tolerantni i prema mišljenjima i stavovima sa kojima se ne slažemo.

    Purger je izneo pretpostavku koja bi možda i bila realna kada bi Kinezi imali interes da lete preko Zagreba bilo kuda. Meni ne deluje tako. Njujork ili Toronto se jednostavnije pokrivaju non-stop letovima iz Kine preko severnog pola, ne treba im evropska obilaznica, a do destinacija u Africi se može stići brže preko neke od vazdušnih luka na Bliskom istoku. O Garudi mislim da ne treba ni trošiti reči, to mi ne deluje čak ni kao sanjarenje.

    Problem sa Kroacijom je da se tokom proteklih godina nisu fokusirali ni na šta. Niti su se ozbiljno potrudili da u Zagrebu naprave mini hub za balkanske destinacije i iskoriste nestanak Maleva i tromost Austriana, a sa druge strane nisu se potrudili ni da povežu Zagreb sa Evropom na pristojan način. Sve se svelo na "šta Mama Lufthansa kaže"... A `mama Lufhansa` je gledala u Swiss i Austrian i potpuno ostavila Adriju i Kroaciju na cedilu.

    Pozdrav svima iz Novog Sada.

    1. E druze a gde si bio da branis Srbiju i one koji su branili nas u ovakvim momentima? Tada te nije bilo tako da...

    2. Zagrebacki aerodrom realno ne lici na aerodrom i to nije jasno samo nekome ko tamo nikada nije bio. Pravila ovog sajta su takva da moze da se pise i bez imena, i ako ti to smeta trazi da se menjaju pravila, ali ne napadaj ljude koji ta pravila postuju.

    3. Ne samo to, nego ja mogu da svaki put promenim svoje ime ovde tako da realno ne shvatam poentu komentara.

    4. Contails, cijenim što ste napisali... i u pravu ste. Da, jeftinije je i brže iz Kine preko Sjevernog pola za Sjevernu Ameriku, i da, to jest budućnost. No, indikativno je da China Southern ne leti za Istočnu obalu (osim Chicaga). Let Peking-Zagreb-New York jest manje isplativ, no računajte da se broj putnika na legu Peking-Zagreb koji izađu u Zagrebu nadopunjuje sa istim brojem onih koji lete na legu Zagreb-New York (naravno, plus kineski putnici iz Pekinga do New Yorka). Konačno, ovaj sustav koristi nemalo kompanija iz Azije. Isto je tako istina da Air China leti direktan let Peking-New York, i naravno da je to ogromna konkurencija eventualnom letu sa 1stop, no isto tako sve se svodi na cijenu koja je ljudima glavni prioritet, dok par sati duži let ne igra bitan faktor, izuzev neznatnom broju poslovnih putnika koji ne mogu biti okosnica strategije kompanija. I opet sve se svodi na matematiku.

      Što se Sjeverne Afrike tiće, ma ne radi se ovdje o velikom broju potencijalnih linija. CTN bi svakako trebao letove prema Cairu, a eventulano bi mogao imati letove prema Tunisu i jednog dana prema Tripoliju i Malti. Jasno da bi kompanija koja bi investirala u CTN koristila takvu konekciju prije nego što bi ušla u deal sa kompanijama iz Bliskog Istoka koje su
      1. nekooperativne (boli ih ona stvar za code-share poglavito sa kompanijama u svojoj zoni interesa, a to Kina i Afrika svakako jesu na prvom mjestu)
      2. time se direktno reže grana na kojoj se sjedi, jer upravo su MEB3 glavna opasnost koja je gotovo uništila promet između Azije i Europe/Afrike, pa tako što svakako ne treba pomagati
      3. Taj i takav put za te destinacije sigurno ne bio bio toliko duži i nikako jeftiniji (nego preko svoje kompanije) da bi bio isplativ investitoru u CTN.

    5. ^ Hello Purger,
      There will never be flights from Beijing or other places in China to New York via Europe because Air China already flies nonstop to New York.The route is even shorter than Hongkong-New York with Cathay Pacific,which is also nonstop.

    6. 'China Southern ne leti za Istočnu obalu (osim Chicaga)...'

      Erm... Chicago is NOT on the east coast, it's in the mid-west!

    7. Please do read my comment about JFK, Air China etc. I thing I made my point about that!

      Of course it is not in East cost, but everyone calculate Chicago, Cincinnati... as East coast destination (comparing to Los Angeles, San Francisco, Settle... as West coast).

    8. Just because some buddies of yours are ignorant does not justify you writing nonsense here. No one educated would consider the windy city or Cincinnati as east coast. They consider them as mid-west, nothing else.

  6. Adria has a very bad reputation among potential "real" (no mafia style buy-sell, tropical island offshore ghost companies with ex yu people in it) area foreign investors.
    It's not the situation of Adria only is the ATMOSPHERE, "working" environment, management "corruption style" at Adria.
    When foreign investors dig in the papers and in the Adria's "way of working" ... they give up ... full of NEGATIVE surprises ... they are SHOCKED about "how the situation is".

    Adria staff (but much more (!) connected so called businessman and selected politicians (that know what is going on)) are happy with the "status quo".
    Public = sure money = no competition (Ljubljana airport connection) = heaven for CORRUPTION and EASY MONEY without + balances coming from real business (read flying) ... just nasty transactions on the official documents to show + results for additional public money.

    While the tender for the sale of a majority stake in Adria was carried out last year, the results have never been made public.


    There is no real interest from "real" foreign investors to buy portions of Adria stake.

    1. I would add
      that despite all problems
      Croatia Airlines -compared to Adria airways- has still a higher (although it will be hard too) chance to
      be sold to real foreign investors.

      Croatia airlines is full of problems included corruption but it still 1 or 2 levels better than Adria.

  7. Congradulation to Croatia Airlines :) Nice to hear this, wish them luck :) Greetings from SERBIA!

  8. In my humble opinion, nobody will buy Adria Airways which is an entirely irrelevant airline. Adria Airways will declare its bankruptcy.

  9. 3 things are good in Croatia Airlines.

    1. More than 20 years of know-how. That is priceless
    2. Croatia's workers, although half of people are complete idiots, there are some excellent experts.
    3. Croatia Airlines Technic. Best Technic in region.

    But there are 99 bad things.. No need to write them.

    1. 4. huge potential market
      5. good image
      6. new planes
      7. inflight service

    2. Actually, I have to say that the cabin crew of OU is compared with JAT or Montengro Airlines (whose cabin crew was coached and mostly regruted in Belgrade) offeres a really bad and somehow unsure costumer service. It is true for JAT that it also has very aldo cabin crew (a "problem" every single old airliner is facing). But despite of that there is something classy in JAT´s cabin´s service, a nice mixture of confidence and good training, which I have never expirienced on OU flights. The OU cabin crew is acting somehow like highschool kids working at the bar over the holliday.

  10. Erm... how can anyone on here actually claim that any European airline being purchased by the Chinese can be a good thing?!
    All Chinese airlines are controlled by the Beijing government. The most absurd thing is that any airline in China wishing to buy planes has to get the approval from the government. Another reason why the Chinese carriers seem to be doing ok is because they get cheaper petrol from the government- this privilege will be abolished soon though.

    No Chinese airline can successfully run a European carrier simply because the market here is a jungle where one wrong step could spell disaster.

    1. And what is the different between Etihad and this Chinese model? Etihad head is head of Abu Dhabi, Etihad is state company which can not buy planes without sheik agreement, Etihad gets cheap petrol, Etihad is in service of state as tool for their interest... So what is the different?

    2. Everything is different for the love of God. Both mega carriers from the UAE (Etihad and Emirates) are operating with the purpose of making a profit. Also, their fleet expansion is NOT subject to sheikh's approval the same way the Chinese carriers' is. I really do not see where you got that idea from. China Southern was forced to buy the A380, an aircraft it absolutely does not need, an aircraft for which it really does not have an adequate market, especially since they were banned from operating it out of Beijing. Naturally because of Air China.
      When Merkel visited China, the Chinese signed a massive deal for Airbus aircraft. Only after signing it they went on to decide to which airline they will assign them to. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH EITHER ETIHAD OR EMIRATES. That's the primary difference. Etihad is run like a real business, Chinese carriers are run like JAT Yugoslav Airlines.

      I will not even talk about business mentality between the two different airlines. Everyone who travelled with Chinese carriers will know what I am talking about.

    3. Hahahaha... you are joking right?

      Emirates and Etihad never, but never had goal to make profit. And they will never do that if they play under rules, without huge discounts on patrol from their governments and other way of subventions. They are just and only tools for their government goals. Their government invests in companies, subsidize them even today, and will in the future.

      You say that they don't need approval from sheikhs:
      Etihad chairmen is Sheikh HH Hamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan
      Emirates chairmen is Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum
      ...and yes, chairmens and board give promission for buying planes and other important decission in their airlines. The best example was urgent deal Jat-Etihad after political decision by the Sheik to invest in his brother’s Serbia (Jat including).

      But the best sentence is that Etihad and Emrates choose planes not because of political influance but because of business. Sure, and you do read some news from air traffice from time to time?

    4. Both Emirates and Etihad are profitable, regardless of what you might think of their business model. They have found a way around the system, unlike Europeans which seem to think that neo-liberalism is the way forward. Don't hate them just because they are smarter.

      ALL business deals are mixed with politics, that's not just aviation. The main difference between the Chinese companies and the Arab ones is that the latter actually bothers to read the specifications and think about how they can best use them related to their business model and strategy. Also, both Emirates and Etihad primarily divide their fleet between Airbus and Boeing and this is because they do not want to heavily rely on a single manufacturer.
      Also, your argument that they are tools of their governments is just WRONG. Their governments wanted their airlines to become world class businesses... which, guess what, they have become. Airlines which are tools of their governments are those that are like Cubana. Opening routes which are demanded by their government. The Dubai and Abu Dhabi administration do NOT order their airlines where to fly. That's where the main difference is. They set them some goals which they have to follow. These airlines have to reach these goals in their own way. Government tools can not do this.

      Also, the CEOs in these two Arab airlines actually have autonomy. The Chinese ones do not as they are politically appointed marionettes.

      So maybe it's not me who should read some news about air 'traffice' from time to time but it's you who should read about politics or international relations. But then again, leading an army of marionettes could be time-consuming.

    5. Sasvim je smesno porediti koncept poslovanja u Kini i u UAE. U Ujedinjenim Arapskim Emiratima uglavnom strani menadzeri imaju mahom odresene ruke da grade i vode kompaniju sto uspesnije i da pritom gde je moguce ugrade i neke elemente orijantalnog poslovanja, koji ukljucuju ideju da je u izvesnim situacijama vazniji odnos sa partnerima od golog profita. Sa druge strane, u Kini se ili sve resava partjiski i korupcijom ili, kao i Rusi, primenjuju neki nebulazni oblik najortodksijneg kapitalizma koji ne preza ni od cega. Iskreno sumnjam da se bilo koja kineksa kompanija moze sitaci kao dobar valsnik nekog preduzeca u Evropi, ali videcemo.

    6. By profitability there is also no different. China Southern in 2011 has profit of more than 835 million USD. Last year they were also profitable, and just for dividend they paid to their shareholders over 80 million USD.

      Head of MEB3 companies are sheiks from their country, they are owned by country or sheiks. They give companies political decision (about fleet, some of destinations, partnership like last one with Jat...). To say that companies are tools to their government does not mean they work in totalitarizm or totally controlled (as those from MEB3 are). But that means that goals are defined by government and profitability is not main goal. For example Emirates is just a tool to make Dubai center of business, tourism, political power... For that reason they invest in Emirates, give them all benefits, subventions, cheap kerosene, privileges in airports... By that way they made just in some 10 years world hubs from their airports. The same think is in China, they are just tools to their interests and goals. Are MEB3 private companies with public shares? Of course not! Are they totally controlled by government, and their sheiks? Of course yes! Are they independent in their business? Of course not! Are they instructed the same way as Etihad was instructed to make deal with Jat? Of course yes!

    7. Purger, give it a break. You can't win this argument. Aviation in China and aviation in the Middle East can't be compared and similarities between the two are not that great. That's the truth.
      China is missing what the Middle East has, vision and proper aviation knowledge. Try flying via the Middle East and then fly via China, you will see what we are talking about.
      Business ethics and the very approach to doing business is fundamentally different. After all, the ME3 operate in a capitalist way while this can't be said about the Chinese airlines.

      FYI all Chinese carriers are reporting losses as this comes as a consequences of the Chinese market being further liberated and with the petrol prices rising. Let's see how competitive they will become with the passing of time when the Chinese aviation market becomes more and more liberated. Chinese airlines still have to prove their worth.

  11. Mislim i da Vas Srbe i nas Hrvate može jako biti sram koliko smo nesposobni da smo uspjeli uništiti sve što se da uništiti i da nas sad moraju kupovati ko zna kakvi istočnjaci koje ne cesti ne bi ni pogledali jer su do pred 20-ak godina za nama zaostajali jedno stoljeće.

  12. Eh, we will see what happens.

    I would like to add one point in this discussion, despite having a bad reputation at this time Indonesia is one of the worlds fastest growing economies, estimated to be fifth largest world economy by 2030.

    I'm not saying Garuda is the best option for an OU takeover but it is not as bad as some suggest.

    In saying that, any move by OU away from the LH sphere of influence would be a huge undertaking by the airline. Don't forget Miles and More is owned by LH including all the frequent flyer passenger details. OU would have no chance divorcing themselves from LH without the help of a huge investor.

    Also interesting to add, just browsing today looking for info on Zagreb's new terminal project, Zagreb Airport International Company Limited (ZAIC)is seeing interest from an additional investor into the project from China.

  13. So soon we will have direct flights from Jakarta to Zagreb on Garuda's B747 :)

    1. As soon as Belgrade-New York via Berlin with Air Berlin A330

    2. Hahahah yeah, as if the 747 flight can happen that soon.

    3. All ex YU is very far from such flights...either Jakarta or New York...especially to US it is not a question of LF...anybody can fill it. it's the yield, front cabin...ex YU market type of traffic to the US is purely VFR...and seasonal..thus extremely price sensitive. airlines will allocate their planes where theres more yield. Until further ex yu is just feeder potential for bigger apts as gateways to US.

  14. Purger, one question: why would China Southern use any city in the Balkans for its potential flights to New York and Toronto? Wouldn't it make more sense to simply use one of primary or secondary hubs in Western Europe? After all, more Chinese passengers would disembark in those hubs and more potential passengers to North America / China live in those hubs. Balkan IMO is too small to successfully supplement the loading rate of a wide-body aircraft required to make such flights profitable. Not attractive for Chinese business people or tourists to start flying in large numbers, and certainly not enough local demand for such flights.

    Your views btw very useful as always.

    1. No part of Croatia is on Balkans. Croatia borders with Balkans, to be precise

    2. Sorry, I'm not purger but let me weigh in a bit here.

      One reason I can think of is cost.

      China Southern could have enough point to point demand to satisfy direct flights to some of the major European hubs you mentioned but they lose money, huge amounts of money here with transit passengers.

      What I think we are seeing is a new strategy unfolding before our eyes from the major Asian and to an extent Middle Eastern airlines but we just do not know it yet.

      I personally think within the next 5 to 10 years once other airlines catch on, that there will be a huge play for both mid to small size airlines and airports around Eastern Europe by some major airlines fly from the east. We are seeing this already with Korean / CSA and Etihad's investments in European airlines. This way they can have more control the cost of their operations in Europe

      The major hubs in Europe are in huge demand and bursting at the seams and like all market economies huge demands equal huge costs. This is just a way airlines in Asia / Middle East could directly control the cost of their operations in Europe and also force price changes and some of the major hubs because of more competition.

      If true, this is a very interesting strategy and time for commercial aviation for Asia the Middle East and the region.

  15. The government fails to identify with the Croatia as a national state as defined in the Constitution, and behaves as a bankruptcy Trustee instead. The does not force member states to sell national air carriers. They just imitate Serbia, their secret idol

    1. "The EU does not force..."

  16. No part of Croatia is on Balkans. Croatia borders with Balkans, to be precise

    1. Hahahahah are you telling me that places such as Dubrovnik or Split are not in the Balkans? :D

      Please, only a small part of Croatia is not in the Balkans, that's the hump north of Zagreb.

    2. Hello Anonymous at August 22, 2013 at 1:41 AM
      You said,
      "No part of Croatia is on Balkans. Croatia borders with Balkans, to be precise"

      I wonder if you wanted to say, 'No any part of Croatia is located in the Balkans. Precisely, Croatia borders some of the Balkan states only.'


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