Thursday, August 27, 2015

Toronto - Zagreb flights cancelled

SkyGreece Airlines likely to suspend all operations

Services between Toronto and Zagreb are likely to be terminated as operator SkyGreece Airlines begins cancelling flights, with rumours circulating the carrier will suspend all operations. SkyGreece Airlines’ services to and from Toronto on Wednesday and Thursday have been cancelled "due to operational reasons", a week after its flights out of Pearson Airport were delayed for four days. A total of 178 passengers travelling from Zagreb to Canada’s largest city yesterday were left stranded at the airport with no accommodation, food or alternative transport offered by the embattled carrier. The fledgling airline's Twitter and Facebook accounts have also been taken down, sparking rumours that it was ceasing operations entirely. A recorded message from the airline said that its Wednesday Athens - Zagreb - Toronto flight has been cancelled, as have two flights between Toronto and Greece via Budapest. Staff at Toronto Airport tsaid the airline was grounded because it hadn’t paid its landing fees to the airport.

Officials from the airline have been unreachable. However, earlier this morning, co-owner Bill Alefantis said the leisure carrier would issue an official statement on its future later today. A Facebook group called “SkyGreece Troubles” has been set up for stranded travellers to discuss their experiences online, with many complaining the airline has not responded to their requests for information. SkyGreece Airlines launched operations on May 22, while its one weekly seasonal service from Toronto to the Croatian capital was inaugurated a month later. A 274-seat Boeing 767-300ER is used on the route. The flights have proven popular with both holidaymakers and those visiting family and relatives. A total of seventeen rotations were to operate to Zagreb until October 7, with some 4.500 passengers booked on these flights.

Earlier this summer, SkyGreece’s Regional Manager for Croatia, Mark Mocnaj, told EX-YU Aviation News that the carrier was evaluating the possibility of extending its services to Zagreb and even introducing flights to other cities in the region. “We are monitoring demand and evaluating the possibility of extending and renewing our service and frequencies for this year and next to possibly even include new routes to the region. This, however, will only be announced in Q4 of this year”, Mr Mocnaj said at the time. SkyGreece is a Greek-registered airline, founded by a group of Greek entrepreneurs, with its offices in Toronto, Montreal and Athens. Some 150 of SkyGreece’s employees have come from Greece’s former national carrier Olympic Airways. The Toronto – Zagreb route marked the resumption of transatlantic flights from the Croatian capital after a seven year hiatus.

123 comments:

  1. Feel sorry for the people that booked with them but this was highly predictable from the very beginning.

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  2. Replies
    1. Finally what? Or are you just happy someone else's cow has died?

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    2. Yes, that is why he is happy.

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  3. Ako jedan Zagreb ne može realizuje letove to Toronta, ja ne vidim kako ce to BEG poći za rukom. Tužno zaista.

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    1. Mislim da nije problem u Zagrebu, letovi su bili jako dobro popunjeni.

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    2. It is about the carrier, not the airport. Legacy carrier with strong (government or private) support can sustain short term losses on the route and try to succeed on a longer run. Mumbo-jumbo-take-the-money-and-run carriers will shut down the route (or the entire business) the moment they see they cannot make some quick cash. Croatia seems to be plagued with such clowns and I think the local authorities should do something about it.

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    3. Anonymus 9:15, u Bogradu ce biti druga prica, imaju kakvu takvu mrezu i veliku potporu drzave koja ce te letove finansirati.

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    4. "Ako jedan Zagreb...". Lol. You make it sounds like we discussing London Heathrow here.

      With almost double the number of passengers and a strong national airline, Belgrade's predispositions for transatlantic flights are miles ahead that that of a relatively small airport like Zagreb.

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    5. JAT je do 1992 pouzdano prevozio triput sedmicno na liniji Bg-Zg-Montreal-Toronto. Mozda se Air Srbija ugleda na JAT koji je nasledila.

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    6. "With almost double the number of passengers and a strong national airline, Belgrade's predispositions for transatlantic flights are miles ahead that that of a relatively small airport like Zagreb."

      And what are Belgrade's prepositions, since many other countries in the neighbourghood don't have transatlantic flights? Tourists, diaspora, "the big leader - najjaci smo u regionu - Vucic"?

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    7. "And what are Belgrade's prepositions,.."

      Have you even read what you copied and pasted? As I already wrote, the predispositions are double thew number of passengers as compared to Zagreb, and a strong national airline (najjaca u ex-YU regionu).

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    8. Anyways let's cut the fighting, planes from Zagreb were full, and we hope the same would be if JU starts operating this route one day..

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    9. And all we are saying, is give peace a chance. lol

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    10. Anonymous 10:37 AM, read my question, double number of passengers doesn't guarantee transatlantic flights!

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    11. What the SkyGreece fiasco shows us is that you can't have a transatlantic schedule with only one aircraft whether that is a 767 or an A330 if you catch my drift... ;)
      If you can't make money during July and August how are you gonna support year round service?

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    12. Anonymous August 27, 2015 at 10:57 AM

      Red my answer. I didn't say it guarantees successful flights. I said its a good predisposition for them.

      Let's wait and see. With strong inter-alliance backing and ability to step in, one aircraft could suffice to start off with, but definitely not in the long run.

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    13. For a seasonal charter with no external support, one aircraft is a recipe for disaster.

      The way it can work is shown by ČSA for example: they have one A330 and they use it only for the PRG-ICN route. It is leased from their strategic partner Korean Air (based in ICN), so if the aircraft for whichever reason drops out of the rotation Korean can quickly provide a replacement from its hub.

      These cowboy startups in the Balkans are really a disgrace and should never receive AOC without material guarantees that would protect the customers.

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    14. ^^ I don't think that any of these carriers so far have even had an AOC except Skygreece. All the rest have just used the AOC of the ACMI operator if I understand correctly.

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  4. It's a real mess at Toronto Airport. Poor passengers who spent good money for their tickets.

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  5. Canada-Croatia flights on a widebody? Sounds too good to be true... Give or take the Titos ideas of flying the DC10s for the prestige or the effort to patch up the fake Yugo brotherhood.

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  6. Well jeez,who didn't see that coming?

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  7. I thought they would have gone bankrupt much earlier.

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  8. http://www.jutarnji.hr/-skygreece-je-propao--a-let-otkazan--ne-znam-kako-cu-s-cetvero-djece-natrag-kuci-u-kanadu-/1405658/

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    Replies
    1. Really sad, 178 passengers stranded at Zagreb. At least HTZ is trying their best, perhaps they could pay for tickets or charter a plane for stranded passengers, that would be a nice gesture I think.

      I expected for SkyGreece to go bust, I've said it before flights too off, don't expect too much from them, it is good they're coming but I'd be surprised if they are around 1 year from now.


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    2. God, the small airport at Zagreb must be ready to explode with those stranded pax, or they may put them in the new terminal?

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    3. Stupid jokes.

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  9. What the hell is going on with Croatia and phantom airlines!?!?!

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    1. This was not Croatia registered airline, SkyGreece was from Greece. But some Croatia tourist organizations invested promotions money into them.

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    2. It's not some it's the National Tourist Organization of Croatia

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    3. When we were talking few years ago about Zagreb being a ghost airport, they made fun of us. Now we see all those phantom airlines and we see that we were right.

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    4. They weren't even Greek. They were based in Toronto and owned by Greek Canadian businessmen.
      But you can't have a transatlantic schedule with only one aircraft whether that is a 767 or an A330 if you catch my drift... ;)

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    5. Are you saying that Air Serbia needs to have two A330?

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    6. Two at least.

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    7. Even more than two and ESPECIALLY deep enough pockets to absorb the losses of the first 1,5-2 years of operations until the airline establishes itself.
      All that of-course IF its competitors with hubs in FRA, MUN, VIE, FCO, IST, ZRH don't just lower their prices and squash AirSerbia's profit margins.

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    8. Air Serbia might transport about 200 passengers daily between their destinations in Southeast Europe and the Middle East to North America.

      Lufthansa Group transports thousands of passengers on this market every day. They won't spend millions of euros in fare dumping just because a new competitor is trying to capture the bottom 2% of the market.

      All of the frequent and premium passengers will continue flying the same airlines they already have been flying, and only the most price sensitive passengers, the ones most airlines aren't even interested in, might be convinced to ride Air Serbia just to save some money.

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    9. Aleksandar Stojanovic August 27, 2015 at 12:57 PM

      I don't understand why you are positioning Air Serbia like some kind of a "bofl" airline. I believe that in today's economic climate, at least 70% of European travelers are price sensitive. Secondly, the popularity of JU's transatlantic flights will also be determined by its times and connectivity potentials.

      I am quite confident that the final product will be en par, if not better, than Lufthansa's, service wise. If that comes at a lower, dumping rate, thats a bonus for me. As an end user, I don't really care about financial ethics. I want to get the best quality at the lowest price. And, I'm sure Air Serbia will live up to my expectations, especially during he introductory phase of these transatlantic flights.

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    10. Anon 2:39

      How can JU compete with lufthansa? Lufthansa has access to hundreds of flights per day across the pond across their alliance. They have a codeshare with both United and Air Canada, so they can take you to hundreds of airports in USA and Canada. They have people from every continent enrolled in their frequent flier program. They have huge corporate travel contracts. They are known throughout the world. Their business and first class is beyond anything ASL can even dream of achieving.

      Literally the only aspect that Air Serbia can compete on is price, and nothing else.

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    11. Air Serbia as a new entrant can not rely only on passengers who look for the cheapest ticket.
      It will have substantial expenses establishing itself in the US and maybe Canada too.
      They also need passengers who buy business class seats and Economy seats of 1000$ plus.

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    12. Aleksandar Stojanovic August 27, 2015 at 3:04 PM

      I beg to differ. Firstly, I clearly stated that the the differentiation will be based on quality of the service and price, not on the size of the fleet, code-share partners, airport coverage, etc. As it stands, Air Serbia is already offering a far superior service compared to Lufthansa, on Euro-Mediterranean flights.

      We can't judge the product before it's launched, but I'm sure since Air Serbia's short-haul offering is already better than Lufthansa's current one, I see no reason for that standard not to carry through to their long-haul service level, as well.

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    13. Far superior product? It is 2015 and JU still doesn't have online check in across their entire network. They still don't have a dedicated business class. People who fly Air Serbia still have their luggage stolen or lost much more often then when they fly with Lufthansa (not saying this is JU's fault, but it still happens to their passengers). Air Serbia doesn't even have any IFE in economy.

      Lufthansa is so far ahead that they realize that onboard product has little effect on people's choice of airlines when flying intra-Europe. This is why Ryanair is so successful in Europe even with Business travelers.

      Considering that Lufthansa's first class gets driven up to the plane in a Porsche, I don't think that Air Serbia's premium offering has any possibility of ever reaching that level. Of course, I doubt Air Serbia would even have any premium offering other than say 20 business class seats because Serbia and our region doesn't have much premium demand.

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    14. O n the contrary, I think people primarily look at the on-board product, after the price and time variables are taken into consideration. The whole backlash of European legacy carriers slipping into the low-cost hybrid model over the past tow decades, has been precisely because of that. Air Serbia has brought a breath of fresh air with its classic on-board product. And, judging by the feedback, that's what keeps passengers coming back for more, abroad its flights. The remaining items of the augmented product are being worked on. Air Serbia is still an airline in the making, versus Lufthansa which is an established brand and product.

      Ryanair would be successful anywhere in the world. Once again, as I mentioned initially, price sensitivity is the primary driving factor in majority of passengers choice of airlines. Not, as you said, of 2% of the people traveling.

      It will be a business class setup, to start off with. But, as has been discussed here over and over again, the spread between regional and connecting passengers will be pushed towards an equilibrium, which would pull both lower income regional ones and higher income connecting ones.

      As for the Porsche, its a local brand in DE. We can drive ours in a Fiat lux from Kragujevac. ;)

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    15. Aleksandar - where have you been all this time ? Air Serbia is the only European airline (i exclude Turkish Airlines since they are not European) with a dedicated business class cabin. Everyone else - incl LH and their affiliates - do NOT have a dedicated business class cabin with proper dedicated business class seats. They all use their economy seats while blocking out the middle seat and shifting the divider curtain to separate the economy class cabin from their business class cabin.

      Make all the points you want to make, but please don't start by telling a lie - it undermines the rest of your arguments or criticisms, however valid they may be

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    16. Alex, you are all over the place with your arguments. Online checkin exists and everyone expects it to be available for USA flights as well.
      First class is not needed in many markets including this one, for example Air Canada does not have first class at all. IFE plus wifi will exist on A330 in economy. On short/med haul IFE is not needed when free streaming entertainment is going to be offered via wifi. Last time I checked Ryanair was not an option for my business travel in Concur, while Air Serbia was. Lufthansa long haul biz class seat varies by plane and some are not up to date. Their service is professional but generally not as warm and attentive as Air Serbia's.

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    17. AnonymousAugust 27, 2015 at 4:43 PM

      I didn't say that only 2% of passengers are price sensitive. I only said that Air Serbia could at most capture around 2% of the South East Europe and Middle East to North America market because of how limited their network is. Even this much would be a huge achievement after a long time of huge investment and expansion.

      AnonymousAugust 27, 2015 at 4:44 PM
      Sorry I meant to write "dedicated business lounge" instead of "dedicated business class". I was writing fast because I am doing some work in between so I hope you will excuse that slip.

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    18. AnonymousAugust 27, 2015 at 4:58 PM

      The topic of that post was weather Air Serbia is superior to Lufthansa NOW, not down the line. Right now online check in limited, there isn't any IFE in economy, and no business lounge.

      Concur is the only way for people to travel on Business? Huge corporations have separate contracts with the airlines directly.

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    19. Aleksandar Stojanovic August 27, 2015 at 5:03 PM

      Yes you did say that. This is what you wrote:

      They won't spend millions of euros in fare dumping just because a new competitor is trying to capture the bottom 2% of the market.

      So, "fare dumping" refers to the final product price, which it affects directly.

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    20. Aleksandar Stojanovic August 27, 2015 at 5:19 PM

      Air Serbia's on-board product is better than Lufthansa's on Euro-Mediterranean routes, NOW. It is what it is.

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    21. 1 ASL ce imati impresivnu biznis klasu .
      2 LH nema stjuardese kao ASL .
      3 332 imati i IFE i WI-FI .
      4 Ljudi iz LH sami su mi rekli kako ASL ima zajedno sa TK najbolju Bizinis klasu .
      5 Nije nikakav problem nabaviti koju S klasu ili BMW 7 za takve potrebe.
      6 Niko ni netvrdi da ce ASL imati vise putnika od LH .
      7 I mogu vec sad reci da e biti jako popularna.
      INN-NS

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    22. AnonymousAugust 27, 2015 at 5:20 PM

      I don't understand but I can assure you that I strongly believe that price is the strongest motivation these days when choosing an airline for majority of people who buy their own tickets. I have written that on this blog many times.

      AnonymousAugust 27, 2015 at 5:24 PM

      Yes Air Serbia's onboard product is better but Air Serbia isn't superior to Lufthansa.

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    23. Aleksandar, you have proven to be a fair guy with your admission of a slip. So we agree, Air Serbia DOES have a dedicated business class cabin which no other European has on its short haul flights.

      Word on the inside is that they will also be opening their new Business Class lounge in 2 weeks time. So that is also a box ticked off.

      On-line checkin is being slowly rolled out, now covering 70% of their network.

      They will also shortly be "switching' on their onboard wi-fi - something which few airlines in the world are offering, certainly when it come to European carriers and others in this part of the world.

      Remember, these guys have not even been in the chair for 2 years, so a lot has been done in this time, when you compare what the airline didn't do over the past 20 years.

      Give credit where credit is due.

      Now they have to try and fix the mess at BEG airport with baggage. Hopefully a new owner of the airport will do much to fix the antiquated baggage system that is still in place today and causing them all the grief ....

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    24. INN-NS, u pravu ste. Nema LH stjuardese kao ASL. U LH je limit godina za taj posao 55, u ASL ih ima sa 55-60 god...

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    25. Anonymous August 27, 2015 at 5:34 PM

      +1

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    26. AnonymousAugust 27, 2015 at 5:34 PM

      Oh yeah I agree that Air Serbia has a lot of potential. If they can unroll online check in across their entire network, open that lounge, get the WiFi working, and whatever else I forgot which they have announced so far, they would be among the best airlines in Europe. No doubt about it.

      And then the only thing holding JU back would be BEG. Some solution needs to be found about the baggage issue. BEG should also improve the passenger experience to be more in line with the most liked hubs but I don't think that is as critical yet.

      Then the only last thing that I think JU would need to become a really good carrier is to add a fleet of 70-100 seat jets because the connectivity right now needs improvement. More destinations need to be double daily.

      But every improvement needs to be done while keeping costs as low as possible. I keep hearing that currently Air Serbia's costs are similar to Easyjet's. If that is true, then that is very good.

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    27. More than fair .... so let's see how they go. The better they become, the more that the other airlines in the region will also need to improve, so everybody wins

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    28. As someone who flies both for pleasure and business I can attest that COST is probably #1 factor for 99% passengers. When I fly privately I also look at the length of travel because I have small kids but for a lot of my friends that are going alone even this is not the factor. That’s why some of them were using TK for YYZ-SSJ flight even though with connection it’s more than 15 hours. For my business travel the cost again is #1 factor and not by choice. My company (and many others) make you go online and book your own travel to reduce cost. Now when you get there, you are always offered the cheapest flight. If you’d like to change it you have to provide explanation and approval from your boss. One other factor in my plans is the alliance because of the miles collection but even this is less and less possible. Even for big bosses there was reductions. VPs in my company would fly business class only up until 2008. Now they face the same rules like I do. So in my mind, product onboard is good, nice service is important but at the end of the day for MOST people cost is #1 deciding factor.

      As far as ASL and its success on NA flights what they need in my opinion are three things: cheap prices, strong local feed and strong codeshare in NA. LH wins outright in last two. Because if ASL flies YYZ-BEG and I live in Ottawa, without the local codeshare partner (AC or WJ) they have no chance in hell.

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    29. SM completely agree. +1

      If only Air Serbia could push it's way into some joint venture.

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    30. Gospodine dosta mladih STW je primljeno .
      Ja sam samo rekao da mogu dosta mladih i lepih stw da nadju i to ce biti svakako faktor da neko upamti ASL.
      AC ce biti partner ASL kao i sto je EY .
      A u JFK kao i EY sa B6.
      INN-NS

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    31. Why the people here always end up in a fight? It is getting bordline ridiculous. Thread after thread end up with similar discussions no matter what the topic was.

      AirSerbia is a pet project, not entirely commercial in nature, to put it politely... and as such it will have business twists and turns not entirely commercial in nature. We all know it. So what is the big deal? If the owners want to make an airline like Swiss, they have to start from somewhere.

      People keep mentioning Lufthansa... well, most things are true, they are a behemoth of an airline, gazillion flights, deep pockets for fare dumping... but so what? Should all other airlines just cuddle and die? I remember the days when this entire region was LH Group playground (before Wizz, New JU, ME3) and I do remember their fares to Europe, North and South America. I do not want those times to return.

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    32. I think WestJet in Canada (AC probably wouldn't cooperate even though it has cs with EY) and maybe Jetblue in US they should be already talking to if they have any intention of flying here.

      I also heard the story about their unit cost being comparable to Easy. If that's really the case it's great and will help them contain losses at the beginning big time because they are going to have to be cheap first year or two until they establish themselves.

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    33. Ti si dao sebi za pravo reći da će letovi početi u martu i na kraju jr ispalo kao i uvek da lazes.

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    34. Ja ne lazem i trebali su letovi krenuti mozete proveriti i sami .
      Mozda ipak budu imali cs sa AC zato sto imaju sa EY .
      INN-NS

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    35. Naravno da lazes. Lagao si za to. Lagao si da će u Milanu objaviti vest o A330. Lagao si za nove letove. Lagao si za nove pojačane frekvrncije.... nemam energije ds nastavim.

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    36. Al' ne laze da treba da budu mladje i lepse stewke...

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    37. SM @ 6.17pm ... not sure what sort of business you work in, but it can't be in the world of "big business' where corporate travel managers procure travel and set travel policy. Because if you did, you would know that factors critical to business travel, are the following - 1/ schedule/timings/network 2/. safety of the airline 3/ company rebates 4/ FF schemes that allow miles to accumulate to the company rather than the individual 5/ pricing 6/ inclusion in one of the major airline alliances.

      And, it is pretty much in this order, with schedules/timings/network, dictating about 80% of the decision. It might surprise you to know that, but this is a fact, with price being one of the last criteria. I know, because i do this for a living working as a travel manager in a US MNC.

      In your example, price is a bigger consideration for leisure travellers and SMEs.

      Therefore, no need to make sweeping statements like 99% of travellers for business base their decision on price. Just call any of the big TMC's such as Amex Travel, CWT, HRG or BCD and they will confirm how wrong you are.

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    38. I don't know who is SM but can tell you he is right. From YYZ to top USA and Canada business destinations your top factor is price. Schedule and frequency is insane, top destinations are on a shuttle frequency. Keep in mind that YYZ to Canada/US is served by essentially 5 airlines: big US3 and Canada 2 (AC and WS) - all considered very safe, so that's not an issue. YYZ is not served by low cost US airlines like Southwest, Jetblue, Virgin America, Frontier etc. Travel policies generally force travellers to take cheaper 1 stop options, as timing is usually not much longer than direct flights. Remember that almost all US flights are border precleared in Canada, so connecting at US airports is quick.

      As for FF, Canadian biz passengers prefer if employers not take away their earned award miles and more importantly, status/lounge access, from them! Employers and travel providers mostly managed to force use of corporate-issued credit cards (you won't get refund unless travel is booked on corporate CC), but FF miles stay with employees as a perk.

      Corporate rebates exist and companies list their preferred airline, but in most cases price difference trumps preferred airline.

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    39. Anon 9:48 PM


      I agree with you in two things. First of all 99% or any exact figure is not justified here because I just don't know. It's meant to illustrate my opinion that what I'm talking about is majority. Also, I would probably agree with you that in the world of “big business” (and by this I mean your Wall Street type companies and employees) this is not the case. I spent last 15+ years working as a field engineer for 6 different companies, all very big players in utilities services sector, 3 based in Europe, 2 in States, most with 100K+ employees). So, what I shared is based on this fact, the experience of my wife who worked for 2 out of 4 major Canadian banks and what I heard from people like me in planes, airports, lounges etc. So yes, there is a portion of business flying public that has the option to make timing, safety etc. as a #1 factor (directors, VPs etc.) but for us regular folks, workers, engineers, salesman those days seem to be long gone.

      Don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to dispute your claims but my opinion is that when you combine what I said above with the fact that leisure travelers are very much price sensitive (even you agree on this), you end up with a sizable number of people. Might not be 99% but it’s a certainly a sizable amount.

      Also, as I said in my original post, I’ve seen these changes first hand. When I first started in one of these companies, we had in house travel consultants who would book everything for us. Every flight over 4 hours was business class, couple of hundred $ difference wasn’t even a thought. Then came Sep 11 and the crisis, first wave of outsourcing, lot stricter rules. After the crisis of 2008 was even worse. It might be different in the US but this is what I am seeing and experiencing in Canada (though I spend most of my time working in US and internationally so this is probably not a factor)

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  10. 150 employees? That's nearly 1 employee for every passenger on a flight... No wonder they've gone bankrupt

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  11. They will restart the services next spring. This is official. The closure of greek banks caused all these problems.

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    1. Dont give excuses please. There are so many apologists on this site which will forgive everything

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    2. Don't be naive.

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    3. By next spring you won't know they ever flew.

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    4. That is BS!
      It is a Canadian company, based in Toronto and with local owners.
      Their bank accounts are in Canada and something like 90% of their passengers are from Canada and travel to Greece, Croatia, Hungary.
      They are just crooks!

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    5. You might want to know that one of the local owner s is an orthodox priest .

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  12. Booking on their website has been suspended. Seems like they are gone.

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  13. I would say that many of us aviation enthusiast would jump at the chance of starting or operating our own airline and some people actually find themselves in the position to give it a go.

    Reality is that airlines, especially the new ones require intensive capital expenditure to operate and they have to be masters of managing very thin margins.

    Look at Etihad, they have just been given another 2.5 billion dollar cash injection from the Emirate government so how will a new start up survive?

    It's like the old saying, to make 1 million in aviation you start with 5 million.

    Everyone would have lost money here from the unfortunate passengers to the operators as well as the airports involved.

    A positive from this is that loads gave a good indication that seasonal charters could be viable possibility in the future.

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    Replies
    1. No other airline is willing to lose money on summer charters. Air Canada Rouge and Air Transat are not likely.

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    2. Air Canada Rouge and Air Transat are doing very well flying to ATH from Toronto and Montreal but it is probably a bigger market.

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    3. @Q400August 27, 2015 at 11:11 AM

      totally agree, and it proves Zagreb is in demand, with almost all flights booked out and Zagreb alone taking 170-200 pax each turn, that is a good reference for the future.

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    4. if you have regional connectivity to the coast by OU you could have even more pax,
      so Rouge would be the best solution.

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    5. " it proves Zagreb is in demand, with almost all flights booked"

      Hold your horses. From Toronto site CP24 today, Aris Sideratos, the owner of travel agency SkyWay Tours on why was SkyGreece popular:

      "We were skeptical from the beginning but on the other hand if somebody, a customer, walks into your office and wants to fly with SkyGreece because the prices were very, very affordable compared to other airlines"

      Very, very affordable. So affordable that airline went bust in couple of months. Use more sustainable prices and see if all flights will be booked, then draw a conclusion.

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    6. Anonymus 11:36, does it mean that ASL should apply sustainable prices for it's possible transatlantic flights from the very beginning? Then we will see ;)

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  14. Hust shows once again how wmall the croatian market are as people dont have any money, somebodu wrote that 90 % of Croatia Airlines passengers are foreigners and croatians living abroad

    Without state subventions no airline trafficking Zagreb would survive

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    Replies
    1. Lucky for Croatia, Dalmatia is full of donkeys and we can take donkeys instead of flying.

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    2. Internal Croatian market isn't small, i think you need to look at numbers but on weekly basis you have at least 50 flights between Zagreb and coastal cities and vice versa.

      Extrapolate these numbers and you'll get around ~320 000 pax, that's not a small number, 650 000 in both ways.

      I think there's plenty of room for growth,/

      Delete
  15. This fiasco reminded me of those charters,that were suppose to happen in 20122 from the Chicago area to ZAG/BEG. They never left the states.Swiftair was the airline that was suppose to handle these flights.They also left passengers stranded . The American Tour Operator was Fly Air Plus.

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  16. Suludo je bilo otvarati u opste Kompaniju i ti samo sa 1 763 bez ikakvog feed-a i to je nenormalno uporedjivati sa ASL koja skoro leti u svaki glavni grad u regionu .
    ako se uradi dobar marketing i dobra cena Avioni ce uvek biti puni i Holandjana , Svedjana , Poljaka i Rusa.
    INN-NS

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Plus dobro finansiranje drzave, to si zaboravio. Bez toga nema nista. Nula.

      Delete
    2. Sve su kompanije tako krenule ;) .
      INN-NS

      Delete
    3. Ne lupaj, nisu sve tako krenule... eto Aeroput je osnovan zahvaljujuci privatnom kapitalu. ;)

      Znaci po tom sto si napisao, bilo bi ok da imaju jedan avion ako imaju regionalni feed?

      Delete
    4. Cilj privatizacije je da država skine sebi preduzeća sa grbače, a ovim potezima su navukli tolike troškove i probleme sebi da je to neverovatno...

      Delete
    5. Ta drzavna kompanija pravi profit tako da pricate svasta .
      INN-NS

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    6. Jeste da. Državno preduzeće BEG gubi pare jer je deo ugovora ogroman discount na sve i ogroman je profit kada država ubaci u kompaniju 14 miliona kao prošle godine a dobije 12.

      Delete
    7. @8:33 Naprotiv, ovako jak ASL sa gomilom tranzitnih putnika samo čini BEG jačim. Zar mislite da bi BEG imao prosle godine rast od preko milon putnika i istorijski rekord da nije bilo ASL?

      Delete
    8. @7:27 hajde malo ozbiljnosti.. kakvi bre dugovi, kakvi problemi?! ASL i BEG stoje kao nikada u proteklih 25 godina.

      Delete
    9. ovim potezima su navukli tolike troškove i probleme

      Troskovi i problemi su bili deo starog jata. Najveci deo ulaganja u Er Srbiju je pokrivanje dugova koje je napravio jat i za koje nije kriva Air Serbia.

      Delete
  17. Sorry to say but I wld never book such an airline. Cheap is never the sole or decisive criteria. And its not about the financial possibilities someone has, its an about your own attitude. Cant be that everything is always claimed down to the financial aspect

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There wasn't even a need to book such an airline because Jet Airways and Croatia Airlines offered similar prices via Brussels. Plus there was more frequency.

      Delete
  18. Zagreb je bio stop-over. Znaci avion se punio i u Ateni. Ne vjerujem da je problem bio u popunjenosti te linije. Mislim da je ipak nesto drugo.

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    Replies
    1. To many emtpy legs as I warned about before they started

      Empty legs in beginning of rotations from Greece and Croatia as no one goes to Canada over summer and then empty legs from Canada to Greece/Croatia in the end of season when all pax is going back to Canada.

      They could save some bucks if they listened

      Delete
    2. Oh, and by coincidence this happens in September when the demand suddenly drops.

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    3. they forgot selling tickets for the next season... as all other carriers are doing.

      Delete
  19. OT: Air Serbia expands its offer of religious meals. On top of its existing halal and Hindu meals, it now offers kosher meals too. Furthermore, it has added Christian Orthodox fasting meals, in the following variations: 1) made on water; 2) made on oil and 3) made including fish, to cater for specific requirements of different fasting days.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great news, now spread the word in media, travel agencies, put billboards at the airport and Air Serbia sales offices, update social media...

      Delete
    2. It's on their website, plus every time you book a seat, it allows you to preselect whichever option you prefer. I don't think it's something worth doing a marketing campaign on, but definitely one of the most diverse airline menus, at the moment.

      Delete
  20. OT: Air Serbia introduces online, interactive suggestions, complaints and compliments section, to complement the existing email complaints process:

    http://new.airserbia.com/en-RS/complaints-compliments

    ReplyDelete
  21. There have been far too many failures in one year for a small market like Croatia. The Croatian CAA has much to answer for. Their due diligence of airlines applying for a license to operate is pathetic. Someone has to answer for this. They need to protect Croatian consumers, as well as the reputation of Croatian aviation. They have failed on both counts.

    Why isn't the Croatian media all over this, asking for and demanding accountability ??

    What a joke of an organisation. The real issues in Croatia are not ZAG airport or even OU, rather, the poor oversight being provided by the regulator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. +1 to add to that it took them 2 months to issue Air Serbia a license while airlines like Dalmatian, Sea Air, Skygreece seem to be selling tickets without a problem months in advance.

      Delete
    2. From what i hear from within Air Serbia, the Croatian authorities are still trying to prevent Air Serbia from flying and expanding their operations. Go figure ...

      Delete
    3. Croatia has been pursuing an anti-Serb commercial policy for years. This continues to be done blatantly, even with, so called, EU rules and values in place.

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    4. Actually, Croatia is still making it hard for JU to operate there and with each new renewal they are adding more and more hurdles. Not to mention that Zagreb and Ljubljana initially turned down the application for A3 to code-share out of BEG. lol
      Thank God they changed their mind in the end.

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    5. Apparantly, the Croatian CAA has brought charges against JU for 'breaking' their rules in carrying passengers beyond Belgrade. Meanwhile, crooks and thieves can start phoney airlines, rip off Croatian consumers and bring their aviation industry into disrepute, by granting operating licenses for undercapitalised airlines which don't even own 1 aircraft and have no hope in hell from ever flying.

      They have much to learn about joining the EU and embracing European values of fair play ....

      Delete
    6. Don't they ever get tired of maintaining this agenda? Gosh!

      Delete
    7. @AnonymousAugust 27, 2015 at 3:35 PM

      its a Canadian company with Canadian issued certificates, they applied for flights to Zagreb, what is so difficult to understand.

      Croatian Authorities aren't responsible for foreign carriers, they have no authority over that, all CAA can do is make sure operator has valid certificates and complies with Croatian and Canadian laws.

      Air Croatia and Dalmatian air were never serious outfits, one never took off to start with, the other took off but is UK based outfit with dodgy history and past.

      Croatia is in the EU and in retrospect can't forbid any EU based aircraft operator from establishing flights out of Zagreb, sorry to burst your bubble but that's how things are and why Croatian Government and CAA couldn't do much, and still can't!!!

      Delete
    8. At Anon @ 7:56

      Indeed, no authority except to deny Sky Greece to fly to Croatia.
      It's quite easy to grasp.

      Delete
  22. INN-NS, u pravu ste, zaista bi mogli da nadju mladje i lepse stjuartese. Te bledunjave tetkice, i rumene čičice, sa 60.god izgledaju k'o roditelji ostalima u posadi. Tragikomicno.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SNS... Sta će. Ipak je ovo Srbija.

      Delete
    2. You need glasses:

      https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1544001832480581.1073741855.1406571032890329&type=1

      Delete
  23. SkyGreece issued a statement about suspending operation "temporarily" this morning. Their aircraft is impounded in Toronto for the unpaid debts.

    ReplyDelete
  24. impounded? I would say this is probably the end...too bad, I was hoping we would have at least one direct flight to the Balkans....

    ReplyDelete

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