Wednesday, February 15, 2017

Emirates prepares for Zagreb launch


Several months ahead of the introduction flights to the former Yugoslavia, the world's largest international airline, Emirates, has begun preparations for its new Zagreb service. Speaking to EX-YU Aviation News, the airline's Area Manager for Austria, Slovakia, Serbia, Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia & Herzegovina, Martin Gross, said. "The route was announced and went on sale less than one month ago, so at this stage it is far too early to make comment on bookings and trends. We are still working on our strategy for the market, but have noticed already a keen interest from travellers from the Far East". Accordingly, the airline has offered competitive fares out of Zagreb to markets such as China, South Korea and Japan during the high season, rivalling both Qatar Airways and Turkish Airlines for the same passenger base. In the last year, an estimated 330.000 passengers flew between Zagreb and markets across the Middle East, Asia and Australasia with single direction flows of around 30.000 from Zagreb to the Gulf nations, 45.000 to Far East Asia and over 50.000 to the Middle East.

The airline still faces the challenge of filling up a large number of premium seats in first and business class outside of the busy summer months on its 364-seat Boeing 777-300 aircraft. However, Emirates anticipates attracting passengers from neighbouring Slovenia and even the southern regions of Hungary and Austria. The Croatian Minister for Tourism, Gari Cappelli, is confident the new flights will sell well, "We are extremely delighted that Emirates, the world's largest airline, has announced daily flights between Dubai and Zagreb. This is an interesting market for us with great potential. Over eighty destinations will be made available via Dubai to markets we are focusing on at the moment. This will increase the number of visitors coming to Croatia. These are travellers who prefer high-end accommodation such as five or four star hotels, with greater spending power". Abi Shalabi, a prominent hotelier and businessmen in Croatia, noted, "Emirates has recognised Croatia as an important tourist destination. This is a major opportunity for the country to attract investors from Dubai. As soon as one comes, the rest will follow. Emirates has analysed the market for a long time and they have decided that it's time to invest in Croatia".

More destinations in the former Yugoslavia could be served by Emirates over the next five years with the carrier considering a major deviation from its existing business model, as it looks to order narrow-body aircraft. The company’s President, Tim Clark, told CNN he has three different proposals in front of him: a narrow-body aircraft order, a mixed order for some number of narrow-body and twin-aisle aircraft, and a pure wide-body aircraft order. No decision will be made within the next eighteen months, Mr Clark said. The carrier currently operates a fleet of Airbus A380 and B777 aircraft. Speculation has been growing that Emirates will launch its second destination in the former Yugoslavia later this year. Sources from its immediate competitors indicate that flights to Belgrade could be introduced in the fourth quarter of this year to replace Flydubai on the route although the airline itself has not commented on these claims. Emirates is seeking to eke out new routes as lower oil prices weigh on travel in the Gulf and stuttering economies hurt global demand. With most first-tier cities within an eight-hour flying radius already connected to Dubai, the Emirati carrier approached both Zagreb and Belgrade airports in 2015 to negotiate future flights.

149 comments:

  1. The flights will work no problem during the summer. Could they maybe link it with Budapest during the winter if demand is lower?

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    Replies
    1. New EK route is not enough for an brand new terminal! They should bring some more companies to Zagreb so I'm definitely disappointed with Zagreb announcements for summer 2017.

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    2. There will be another announcement soon, just be patient, please!

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    3. LOL, yeah, it will be, tomorrow, or maybe day after tomorrow, or next week, etc.

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    4. I know people don't believe it, but the guy works for ZAG airport, he can't say a thing, but he says it will be great and the talks are in their final stage.

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    5. Hey man, today is 15th of February and summer season is really near, so please stop with trolling.

      Zagreb need something "big", like EK, but that would not happen this year, unfortunately!

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    6. "Never enough. EK wasn't enough. We need something bigger. Better."
      Geez...

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    7. Frishki, Zagreb deserve that

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    8. more destinations?

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  2. Can't wait to see EK livery in ZAG :)

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  3. EK the worlds largest airline...... not really

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    1. The world´s largest INTERNATIONAL airline.

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    2. Please read the text. It said "world's largest international airline" and by number of international passengers they are the largest airline, indeed.

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    3. FR carried twice the pax of EK in 2016 and most of their routes are international...

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    4. Anon 11:02 Then everyone else is wrong and you are right. Congratulations!

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    5. The text says worlds largest....

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    6. Aren't we allowed to doubt titles, where they are provided with any facts. Just like Emirates is the 7th safest airline of 2017 and they've had a crash last year....

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  4. "We are still working on our strategy" ... shouldn't they have done that before they announced these flights?

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    1. I'm not surprised at all. Emirates head office rarely informs its representatives of what they are about to do. They find out at around the same time as the rest of us.

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  5. I believe BEG will be launched in September, and not during the last quarter of 2017.

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    1. Why the hell would they launch a route in September? That's basically the end of the summer season, when demand should be highest

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    2. Good point that actually, most routes are launched prior to summer

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    3. It is interesting that QR is increasing Belgrade to daily in September.

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    4. Emirates is aiming for the Serbian diaspora in Australia and New Zealand which usually travels during northern winter season.

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    5. Anon @ 10.29am - not sure where you get your info from, but Serbian diaspora from Australia doesn't usually travel during Northern winter at all - they travel in droves during the European summer - as do most other people from APAC, as reflected in the capacity that all airlines add into their summer schedules.

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  6. Would also like to see how Qatar and Turkish will be doing

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    1. Yes this will be interesting. Has anyone been looking at their fares from/to Zagreb since the EK announcement? Have they reacted?

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    2. In about 5 years there will be enough pax for Emirates, Qatar and Turkish..but as it is now, Croatia still doesn't have the numbers to sustain all 3 year round, summer is probably different

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    3. Qatar usually reacts by saturating the market with even more seats.

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    4. So saying that I would not be surprised if they start sending a B787 to ZAG.

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    5. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 15, 2017 at 9:51 AM

      Anonymous 9:19
      Can you give us some number to support your thesis. Au contraire here are some facts:

      http://tangosix.rs/2017/17/01/zagrebacki-aerodrom-se-vraca-na-scenu-zbog-cega-je-dolazak-emiratesa-toliko-bitan/

      It is not just to say something on bases of your presumptions. One should support his idea with reading of numbers and than make some conclusions.

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    6. Alene, napisao sam da ljeti nemaju problema
      Ali sve te brojke su velikog sezonalnog karaktera. Zagreb je daleko od year round turizma

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    7. Let's not forget that ZAG handles 170.000 passengers in January, that's some 2.471 one way passengers. How many of these travel to Australia or eastern Asia?

      As mentioned in the article, there were some 300.000 Asian passengers at ZAG, I really don't see where are those 1.500.000 someone mentioned on here.

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    8. '2.471 one way passengers' per day.

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    9. And 70% of that on Star Alliance carriers.

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    10. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 15, 2017 at 10:40 AM

      Anonymous 9:59
      I opet mislim da morate pogledati brojke. Samo tijekom Adventa u Zagrebu bude 100.000 turista. Za razliku od Jadrana Zagreb nema ni izbliza toliku sezonalnost. Naravno da je ima, kao i sva druga tržišta Europe, ali ipak je broj putnika u top sezoni i u najgorem dijelu godine samo 1:2, dok je na Jadranu 1:20. Dakle treba pogledati brojke dolazaka turista zimi, pa onda donositi zaključke. Nije da ih ima gomila, ali nije i da ih nema. Prije 5 dana sam naletio na grupu iz Dalekog istoka (Japanci, Koreanci, Kinezi ili neko treći). Vani nula, po cesti snijeg (bolje rečeno bljuzga), tmurno i preružno vrijeme, njih 50 obilazi gradom. U 2. mjesecu.

      Emirates ima problem sezonalnosti i drugdje, pa svejedno puni avione. Kao što piše u mom tekstu u 2. mjesecu imate karte po 90 EUR AMS-DBX-AMS. To puni avion. Ne čini let profitabilnim, ali puni avion. I hotelske kapacitete, restorane, bus prijevoznike, taksije, suvenirnice...

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    11. Koji procenat tih 100.000 na Adventu dolazi avionom? Zagreb je opsluzio 187.000 putnika u decembru, 17.000 vise nego lane. To je i dalje relativno slabo da bi se ZAG okarakterisao kao veliki regionalni igrac.

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    12. Uz sve to, pogledajmo koliko je godina trebalo QR-u da napuni A320 i da poveca ucestolosti na vise od 7 nedeljno.

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    13. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM

      Anonymous 10:27
      No one said so. There is 1,1 million tourist from Asia, Australia and Africa in Croatia. Also there is huge Croatian diaspora from that part. Big share of those passengers travel via ZAG. But of course lot of them travel to Dalmatia directly (ANA), via some other hubs (Turkish, Austrian, Lufthansa, Aeroflot...) and some via other airports as they are on round tours (BUD, VIE, MUC, VCE...).

      Emirates for sure will accumulate more passengers from that part of World to travel via ZAG. And for sure 1,1 million tourists (0,3 million in Zagreb), 350.000 diaspora, business, politics (especially NATO) is good base to make those number better with help of Emirates.

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    14. Neeee...330k je putnika između ZAG i Azije. U Hrvatskoj i Zagrebu je osjetno veći broj posjetitelja iz Azije.
      Veoma mali broj iz Koreje u Hrvatsku (Zagreb) stiže Koreana. Osjetno veći broj dolazi busom iz Beča. A posjetitelja iz Koreje ove godine je vjerojatno blizu 400.000, u Zagrebu preko 100.000

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    15. Nadovezujući se na prethodni..
      Odgovarao sam na postove iznad a ne ovaj zadnji od Alena

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    16. Ok, let's wait and see. Alen, you have been predicting all these booms for many years in the past and nothing has come of it. Just remember how much growth you predicted from EU membership yet growth has been at around 7% for a long time now

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    17. You just talk of incoming traffic to Zagreb. Why are you excluding Slovenia in winter time as destination or outbound traffic eastbound to warm water destinations via DXB (while european winter)?

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    18. Because Slovenes mostly use VCE. More choice and its generally cheaper.

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    19. Alen - why do you continue with the misinformation about the size of the diaspora in Australia, Asia and Africa ? C'mon 350,000 is a fictitious number that you keep on peddling. There is no more than 120,000 in Australia and i doubt very much that the balance of 230,000 live in Asia and Africa.

      The number - while large - is a LONG way away from the 350,000 you keep on talking about.

      Get real....

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    20. @AnonymousFebruary 15, 2017 at 10:27 AM

      Croatia had 1,75~ million visitors from outside Europe in 2015/6. Not Zagreb, data available at ministry of tourism.

      China/HK/Taiwan - 225000~
      South Korea - 375 000~
      Japan - 250 000~
      Australia/NA - 175 000~
      USA - 350 000~
      Canada = 125 000~
      Chile - 20 000~
      Mexico - 24000~
      Brazil - 72000~
      Argentina - 17000~
      + ........

      http://www.mint.hr/UserDocsImages/170214_t-promet_XII.pdf

      Potential for 1.5 million from Asia alone is there. So quit trolling!!!

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    21. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 15, 2017 at 11:42 PM

      As I said once those date are from Ministry of foreign affairs and European integration. In my article you can see how much diaspora is in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa... I don't have doubts in official data.

      Basically I don't predict numbers. And for sure I was not predicted anything. Always I just put numbers and possibilities. Emirates will have this number of seats. Their usual LF is almost 80%. Maybe they made huge mistake and will have LF in ZAG 10%. Maybe they will be so successful that will attract most of tourists that are now flying via VIE, BUD, VCE, who will use Emirates now directly to ZAG, and will have 95% LF. One can not say how much Emirates will spend in this route, will they go with huge dumping especially during winter, with how much Zagreb tourist board will participate in attracting passengers, what will be trends in 2017, will there bi any terrorism, political turbulences etc. So, I don't and was not predicting numbers.

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    22. At last anonymous, the 300,000 odd thousand is an estimate based on how many people state that they were born in Croatia which was a bit more than 90,000 in the last census. Many of these people have Australia born children and grandchildren who still identify as Croatian but it will also be true to say that many have intergrated completely into Australian society and have very little connection to their ansestry homeland.

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    23. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 16, 2017 at 9:46 AM

      Not exactly. There is two facts:

      1. That 2nd generation travel to Croatia as tourists as they want to see lend of their fathers. That is why there are so many Australian and New Zealand tourists in Croatia.

      2. In last 3 years there was huge exodus from Croatia. Estimation is that more than 300.000 young people leave Croatia. One of main destination is Australia.

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    24. OT

      @Q400

      Your opinion of Timatam https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Tim_Tams.jpg/1200px-Tim_Tams.jpg

      Edible, not edible ?

      I think timatam per 100 grams has more sugar and fat than any other biscuit I've ever tried.

      It should be called cholesterol biscuit bar.

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    25. The official census of Australia states 118,000 people identifying as Croats (all generations). 50,000 born in Croatia. The largest number I could find for New Zealand is 40,000 (unofficial). Everyone can check it out. Not saying anything other than putting out the facts. So Australia & New Zealand have 170,000 Croats at the most. The entire region here in question maybe 200,000. Don't know where the numbers like 350,000 are coming from.

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    26. @MichaelFebruary 16, 2017 at 2:56 PM

      There are loads of 2nd and 3rd generation Croats in Australia, many who have mix family heritage, Croatian, Italian, Irish and so on. A friend of mine has English surname cause of his Irish father ,his mom is Croatian.

      He's great Aussie pal of mine and he speaks Croatian too. But on census, he never ever puts nationality or any of that sort.

      He is like many millennials, he just doesn't care.

      Total number of Croats in Australia, including 1st, 2nd and the 3rd generation are considerable, i'd say 300-350 000 easily.

      172000 Australians visited Croatia in 2016, no idea how many of these had Croatian heritage.

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  7. Replies
    1. Iz pouzdanih izvora sam dobio informaciju da ce Qantas sljedece godine uvesti double daily SYD-INI via SIN s airbus A380.

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  8. So they need to steal a large share of the 300k passengers.

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  9. EK should keep in mind that this is the first full year Turkish will be flying to Dubrovnik. Being a Star Alliance member and offering direct flights, I think they will take a large portion of passengers that are heading to the coast.

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  10. Uocio sam da EK prodaje karte i za DBV via ZAG, gdje naravno OU feed-a za DBV. To je odlicna stvar.

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    1. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 15, 2017 at 9:55 AM

      I do sada je Emirates koristio OU za feedanje svojih linija preko trećih gradova. Sada će to svakako više činiti. Za očekivati je da SPU, DBV, ZAD, PUY, SJJ, a možebitno i OSI i SKP budu code-share feeding linije Emiratesa.

      Nije nevjerojatno da Emirates koristi i Air Serbiu za feedanje putnika iz BEG ako još uvijek ima interline sa JU.

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    2. JU i EK imaju interline preko VIE.

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    3. Cisto sumnjam...i da naprave codeshare putnici iz BEG bi cekali u Zagrebu oko 4-5h na let za DBX, a jos i vise u povratku natrag za BEG. Za to veliko presjedanje se vise isplati doci automobilom.

      Mada ne bi trebala cuditi i cinjenica da se privuku putnici iz BUD jer primjerice znam dosta ljudi koji iz BUD putuju za Istanbul preko Zagreba jer im je puno jeftinijje letiti iz ZAG nego iz BUD. Mozda je nekima usteda 50-100€ zanemariva, ali mora vam biti jasno da vecini turista svaka moguca usteda dobrodosla i da svi nastoje putovati po sto povoljnijoj cijeni. Ako Zagrepcani redovito putuju za BUD da hvataju njihove vrlo jeftine letove s WizzAirom i Aer Lingusom, ne vidim razloga zasto ne bi bilo obrnutog slucaja ukoliko EK nudi jeftinije letove iz ZAG nego iz BUD kao sto je slucaj s Turkish Airlines.

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    4. Treba samo sacekati i baciti oko na parking ispred zgrade i pogledati registarske tablice :)

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    5. Gledam šta mi je povoljnije za put u Aziju.
      EK je za sada jeftiniji iz BUD nego iz ZAG, da li će se promeniti, videćemo.

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  11. Emirates arrival will really shake up competition in Zagreb. I think Turkish Airlines will be hurt the most here but it is encouraging that they will not be cutting frequencies during the summer.

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    1. The reduction was only seasonal, there are far less passengers in winter time. We'll see if they cut it in W17 with EK in town.

      I think OS and LH will be as hurt as TK. First victim will be OU's flights to MUC and VIE.

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    2. OU's flights to MUC and VIE, as much as they've been "profitable" due to good internal agreements with star partners (good pricing, less cost, some other benefits), VIE and MUC, especially VIE are overserved. 5 x daily flights (3 by OS, and 2 by OU) to VIE, which is not even that big of a hub. VIE's importance in respect to offering connectiongs to ZAG should decrease in 2017. not only due to EK's new presence, but most importantly due to the fact that LOT and ČSA/OU had now stepped up the game by connecting ZAG to WAW 10pw and 11pw to PRG in season. LOT and ČSA offer connections to Scandinavia, and all this was previously served only by OS/OU via VIE.

      So, that particular change is GOOD. Stop with the monopoly and dominance in the manner of Austro Hungarian Empire, just joking about this... relax :)

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    3. I agree, the LH Fortress of Slavery in ZAG is definitely crumbling, especially since AF and KL entered the market. This was the first blow. I am especially happy for LO because they are a serious airline and will offer great connections to Asia.

      I agree, VIE is overrated and I think it only does ok because of North American connections, otherwise it's expensive. OS charges us well over €350 to fly intra-Europe.

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  12. Still waiting to see will they offer chauffeur transfer to premium passengers and what distance away from ZAG. Anyone know?

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    1. I contacted them about this. They said they are still determining it. Wonder if they will offer it from Ljubljana.

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    2. Thanks. Yes, would be a good move in my opinion.

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  13. This is not good news for Croatia Airlines.
    Does anybody know their financial year results

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    1. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 15, 2017 at 10:54 AM

      How comes? EK will feed that route with OU from ZAD, PUY, SPU, DBV, SJJ, OSI. How that can not be good for OU?

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    2. OU already feeds those passengers to other airlines flying from ZAG (TK, QR, even LH). You are talking about redistribution of the existing feeding capacity - not the creation of a new one. For OU it makes no difference.

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    3. Also, TK flies directly to DBV, why would anyone go for a two stop option when there is one?

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    4. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 15, 2017 at 11:49 PM

      For sure with capacity of 250.000 passengers per year Emirates will attract lot of new passengers. Huge capacity, huge image... And there will be benefits for OU in those new passenger.

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    5. Yeah like you said that NATO or EU membership will bring thousands of new passengers and that we will see a double digit growth and then we saw a regular one.

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    6. Alen Šćuric PurgerFebruary 16, 2017 at 9:42 AM

      And they did bring thousands of new passengers. 475.856 exactly.

      I never said it will bring double digit growth. And it should. Like it was in Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia... Unfortunately Zagreb did not use its opportunity like other capitals which enter EU did. In same time Croatia in total had double digit grow of air traffic in that period.

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    7. To add on what Alen/Purger has written: E.U. membership absolutely did help Croatia and croatian tourism. Zagreb on the other hand, well - no LCC so far, high airfare tickets, it's a miracle ZAG had any growth. What is good is the arrival of strong legacy carriers (KLM, Swiss, Emirates, Air Serbia, LOT, ČSA, Brusseles). Legacies are a pre-requisite for a strong overatlantic/fareast connection network. LCC are quick to react and once the time is right (once the legacies which are harder to get take their proper "slot" place), LCCs will populate the "missing" or new destinations. Just wait and watch...

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  14. Is Qantas codesharing on these flights to Zagreb?

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    1. Yes from Perth. Why else do you think they are considering the 777X?

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    2. I was talking about Qantas codeshare between Dubai-Zagreb on Emirates....

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    3. Ah sorry!! I miss read your comment. I thought it said is "Qantas considering Zagreb" and thought it was a sarcastic comment.

      My bad!

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    4. Hah no but it is unfortunate Qantas has quit all of its European destinations except London. Hopefully they will consider other European routes from Perth next year. Flew with them last time a few years ago Sydney-Frankfurt. Flight was piratically empty but it was February.

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    5. You can book the flights via the QF website and it does show both Qantas and EK flights as an options so dare I say yes they are codesharing?

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    6. I think London is their only European destination now.

      Sorry for OT but interestingly;
      When the 787 was still on the drawing board, Qantas was actually going to be one of the launch customers with 80 on order and a further 80 options with the plan to use the aircraft as a "hub buster". People then were talking about flights to a bunch of European cities like Athens and Rome. The previous CEO (Geoff Dixon) than suddenly changed plans and ordered the A380 instead and changed the 787 order to a large 737-800 order with only 12 787's being bought for Jetstar.

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  15. @ Admin, did the speculation you wrote about regarding Belgrade come from any other source than this blog? Did the area manager say anything about possible Belgrade flights this year?

    Personally I think they will eventually launch Belgrade but didn't think it would be as soon as this year if true.

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    1. Didn't the same area manager say in November '16 there wouldn't be flights to ex-Yu anytime soon? Like someone said I'm under the impression that they haven't actually told anyone until the last minute. I'm sure that if the area manager knew in November that in less than 2 months they would announce ZAG he would have just said "we constantly evaluate the market or smtng like that.

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    2. Q400:

      Several different sources, not related to comments published here. But until the airline itself confirms these services, which is unlikely to happen until tickets are put on sale, this is mere speculation, as noted in the article. The airline has not put in a request for a permit with regulatory authorities, as some have claimed.

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    3. Thanks Admin,

      If Flydubai suddenly pull out of Belgrade I think we will know too.

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    4. What's interesting is that FZ increased BEG to 4 weekly this winter season. That said I think it's still early for BEG to get EK but at the end of the day who knows what will happen.

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    5. No one was expecting EK Zagreb flights and if ticket sales are more than decent than I'm sure Belgrade would become more interesting to EK.

      The Ex Yu diaspora in Australia is large and many people travel to their ansestry countries every year if not every few years religiously. This is why I think Zagreb and possibly even Belgrade now will have EK flights before some other cities in the region like Bucharest and Sofia.

      The only disadvantages Belgrade might have here compared to Zagreb is the minimum Asian orientated toursims at this time and if Etihad could have any influence on this going ahead.

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    6. I don't think BEG will get EK any time soon. With EY and JU daily to AUH, QR to DOH daily from September, and the behemoth TK, there's not enough room for them

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    7. Belgrade might not have the tourists but it does have growing economic ties with China and India. They might not provide the volume but they do provide higher yield.
      I mean, airlines such as Aeroflot, Turkish Airlines, Qatar, flydubai, Etihad... are not in Belgrade just because of our diaspora in Australia.

      Bank of China recently opened its Balkan HQ in Belgrade and I am sure they alone will provide quite a few high yielding passengers, not just to China but to the Balkans states as well.

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    8. Unrelated but today easyJet increase BEG to three weekly and the flight, like several before it, was operated by the A320.
      Let's hope they add more flights by the summer season.

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    9. I hope all above are not basing their predictions based on the fact that QR is increasing BEG to daily in September. I also doubt the QR team in BEG would openly tell some members on here or admin about their future competition just like that ( but its Serbia so I could be wrong haha). I also hope you did not get that information from a friend of a friend since that is unreliable.

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    10. Nije podnet zahtev direktoratu i nema sanse da ove godine dolazi Emirates
      Sledeće mozda ali to ce da se vidi po flydubai

      I nije istina sta se pisalo da Emirates gleda na jos jedan grad u regionu
      Samo ce jos BEG ovde da dobije letove, tesko proceniti kada

      A biznis i bankare moze i Turkish da voza, verovatno i Kinez dolazi prije Emirates

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    11. A ti odakle znas?

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    12. ^admin said it
      " The airline has not put in a request for a permit with regulatory authorities, as some have claimed."

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    13. Anon 5.30

      Kako ti sve znas. Mora da si clan upravnog odbora ASL-a.

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  16. It will be exciting to see EK in ZAG. There have been some rumors that they will operate the first flight with an A380 with a Croatian pilot. Can anyone confirm this?

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    1. Here you can even get a confirmation that the entire fuselage of that A380 will be painted in red&white squares, the Emirates name and logo on the fuselage will be replaced with "Bravo Hrvatska!" (both in Croatian and Arabic), and the aircraft will be named "Kralj Petar Krešimir" specially for the occasion.

      Whether it would actually materialize does not matter that much. You want a confirmation on something - the posters here will provide it.

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    2. Actually it doesnt sound impossible to send one off A380 just for marketing purposes - and also maybe invited by ZAG airport to test the infrastructure at the same time (unique opportunity). I would be surprised if they didn't. As for the rest, calm down, don't exaggerate and embarass yourself.

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    3. What I wrote above does not sound impossible either. Yes, EK sometimes deploy A380s on routes served by 777s and it can of course happen in ZAG. But if you are seeking the confirmation from the famous experts who visit this blog then you may get much more than you hoped for. That was my point.

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    4. I get what you are saying, and indeed many times one can read really funny posts here (even from so called experts, unfortunately validated by many members here), but this is a public forum and I suggest you don't get so agitated over very usual thing the guy asked. Of course noone can (or will) confirm this, but hey, treat it as if it is like a general question....'what do you guys think about it'?

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    5. No, A380 will not be on first flight. That flight will have enough promotion like this. But they will use A380 few weeks later as opportunity for extra promotion. That will, for sure, be magnet for lot of journalists and enthusiast from region with million photos to be published.

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  17. OT Seems like most Balkan airports saw double digit growth in January (BEG, TGD, LJU, SOF...).

    Here are the results for ATH:

    Domestic:
    2016: 438.315
    2017: 430.619 (-1.8%)

    International:
    2016: 654.529
    2017: 775.840 (18.5%)

    Total:
    2016: 1.092.844
    2017: 1.206.459 (+10.4%)

    From what I saw IST numbers dropped by some 12%. I think they are one of the few airports in the region to record falling numbers.

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    1. It was high time for the region to flourish. I'm just very glad about INI, SKP, SOF region which is home to approx. 3 million people seeing brilliant results. Southern Serbia needed this to catch up with the Northern part. Bravo!

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    2. I am really curious to see how LX does in INI especially since they can't offer super cheap fares like FR and W6 do. I think it's a shame their flights don't have convenient times to offer north American connections.

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    3. Many European airports are experiancing double digit growth so I guess the question to ask for the region is, are we ahead or just following the curve?

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    4. Good point. I think all Balkan airports must record double digit growth in order to remain relevant.
      However, this growth in international passengers in Athens must be attributed to Aegean, especially since Ryanair has considerably downsized their presence there. The latest route to be reduced was ATH-BTS.
      I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of passengers who used to connect in IST are doing it in ATH now.

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    5. Nemjee, who cares about ATH??

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    6. I do care, stop being so ignorant

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    7. It's ok to post them but there is no need to go that much into details with everything re Greece. +18% should be enough

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    8. Never understood these people who complain about a topic. You don't like it? Ignore it.

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    9. ATH would require 50% growth simply to catch up with the second busiest airport in Istanbul. Need I say more, Nemjee?

      If you want to 'compare' airlines and airports then compare A3 to PC (larger fleet than A3) and ATH to SAW (busier than ATH). Furthermore, PC has orders for an additional 71 aircraft, A3 has none. Enjoy!

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    10. I don't get the point of your comment. I was referring to Balkan airports, Istanbul's second airport is not located on the peninsula.

      Even if we compare ATH to SAW, the latter is not in such a great position.
      First of all, last year SAW grew by 3% while ATH by 10.7%.
      In January 2017, SAW saw its numbers slip by 5% while ATH, as you can see above, grew by 10.4%.

      International traffic in Jan 17:

      SAW: 695.754 (-3%)
      ATH: 775.840 (+18.5%)

      Aegean has a fleet of 63 aircraft compared to Pegasus which has 74. That's not such a great difference. Also, Pegasus is going through a crisis right now which is why they decided to put the A320s and the B737s up for lease. So the fact that they have an additional 71 aircraft on order is not necessarily a good thing. Especially not given the current situation in Turkey which won't stabilize any time soon.

      Also look at Aegean's fleet growth:

      2013: 30 aircraft
      2014: 50 aircraft
      2015: 58 aircraft

      Passenger growth:

      2013: 6.9 million
      2014: 10.1 million
      2015: 11.6 million

      Their goal is to carry 15 million by 2023.

      Athens ranks as Europe's 28th busiest airport (30th last year) and it's right behind Tegel, Brussels and Lisbon while it has overtaken Malpensa. If Athens keeps on growing like this then by the end of the year it will come close to Vienna.

      Their ATH hub keeps on growing and they are constantly adding more and more flights. They are heavily investing in their brand awareness which has enabled them to defeat FR in ATH.
      Finally, ATH is making the most of the crisis in Turkey which is acting as a catalyst, speeding up their growth.

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    11. The point is, give us a break with info about Greece/Cyprus and if you want to do it, just do it briefly.

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    12. Why so cynical?

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    13. Above comment meant for Observer.

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    14. Anon 4.59

      A što mračiš čoveče? Eto meni ne smeta kada čitam vesti iz regiona nebitno da li je to Grčka, Austrija ili Bugarska.

      Ako te toliko iritira što čitaš prepisku?

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    15. +100 Last anon

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    16. I meni obicno ne smeta ali je smorio vise

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    17. Pa ono... ne vidim u čemu je problem kada je jednostavno odgovarao na pitanja koja su mu drugi postavili. Prvobitni post je relativno kratak. Ali ovde narod voli da hejtuje tako da...

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    18. Observer is obviously Turkish and somehow feels threatened by Aegean's success.
      I am very appreciative of all members contributions who let us know what is happening to the neighboring markets and we can compare with our own (ex-yu) developments.
      I am very much surprised that Ryanair retreated so much from ATH market while traffic grew 18%!
      Not many full service carriers have managed to defend themselves against FR low costbase.

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    19. Now we're talking Nemjee, A3 vs PC (not TK).

      Are you seriously suggesting that IST is in the region, but SAW is not? Never mind.

      My intention was to provide a bit of perspective and show how futile it is to compare A3 with TK or ATH with IST (it comes across on this site quite a bit). I wanted to remind the readers that ATH would have to grow by 50% to catch the second largest airport in Istanbul, as well as point out that A3 (including OA) is smaller than PC (10m vs 24m passengers in 2016). On top of that PC fleet order suggests future growth prospects.

      TK's network at SAW is nearly 3/4 of A3's network at ATH, so a number of passengers are moving from IST to SAW before the new Istanbul airport opens.

      Yes, granted, A3 is growing, but it's in a different division to TK and it's not viewed or considered an existential threat.

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    20. Well, IST is on the European side while SAW isn't.

      I understand that you wanted to provide some perspective on TK-A3 or IST-ATH comparison but that had nothing to do with my comment. Initially I did not compare any of them. I only did it later on as a reply to your comment/statement.

      Are you sure that PC fleet order suggests future growth prospects? This year alone they retired three B738 whose retirement coincided with the arrival or their NEOs. To me it seems that most of the ordered aircraft will replace existing ones, especially the Boeings.

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    21. Completely agree with Dejan. You cannot live in a bubble and isolate neighboring countries just because they do not fit into the ex-yu category. All additions are meaningful. Keep up the info Nemjee!

      The A3/TK debate unfortunately turns into a Greece-Turkey argument. I believe it is more important to look at relative sizes, i.e. Turkey's population (80 million) in comparison to Greece's population (11 million). I agree that TK, IST, SAW and Turkey in general are in a different category, but if one were to factor in population size, A3's growth from such a small country is certainly noteworthy. However, I don't expect it to dethrone TK anytime soon (or ever) unless Turkey as a country breaks apart Yugoslavia style. Until then, even after countless terror attacks and economic turmoil, TK and other Turkish operators could survive based on local consumption and domestic travelers much more so that A3 can in Greece.

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    22. Turkey's population is circa 75m.

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    23. Pegasus is concidered by a lot aviation experts as a below average airline , their service and personel bahaviour is simply AWFUL.

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  18. OT: Adria 2016 with 1.450.400 PAX. +13,1%

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    1. Guess this is excl Nordica?

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  19. OT: regarding yesterday's discussion of UA an impression of UA's fleet renewal:
    Paine Field (Boeing ramp) with 3 new B773 being prepared for delivery:
    http://paineairport.com/images/kpae14214d.png

    a 4th should also be on the ramp (N59034).

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  20. Svakako je dobro sto je ZAG uspeo dovesti EK u ZAG.
    Ako je istina da ce doci EK i u BEG bio bi zanimljiv odgovor dali ce EY poslati wide body u BEG.
    INN-NS

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    1. Svakako se da li pise odvojeno.

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    2. Ja ne znam šta Etihad čeka sa wide body, letovi za BEG su im ~95%

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    3. Jednostavno ne znaju da rade poso. 95% LF, toliki potecijali, a oni ni da povečaju na A321, a i sa A319 na A320 su prešli samo zato što su ukinuli A319. Baš neki diletanti ti u Etihadu. Ili brojke baš i nisu tolike kakvim se nastoje prikazat?

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    4. Ili mozda nemaju potrebu da povecavaju kapacitet jer je je dnevno na raspolagnju preko 260 sedista iz Beograda za Abu Dabi.

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    5. Can someone answer me if there is someone out of his damn mind at Air Serbia? I was looking for fares for a friend from Sofia to the US and Air Serbia is 1.100$ while all the major players are bellow 500$.

      What sort of policy is that, especially in such a slow month like February?

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    6. Stop trolling because it is not true at all ... do a search on kayak.com and you will see that JU is even lower than TK

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    7. Return, not one-way.

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    8. @8:44
      Check again, troll... JU offering 409EUR is the lowest return available.... geez

      Delete

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