Thursday, September 28, 2017

Croatia moves to secure China flights


Croatia anticipates establishing flights to China as the number of tourists visiting the country from the Mainland continues to grow. The Zagreb-based Chinese Southeast European Business Association (CSEBA) has said that Zadar Airport is leading the way in securing such operations. "The number of Chinese tourists visiting Zadar and Croatia itself has grown significantly even prior to the launch of flights", CSEBA noted, adding that a Chinese carrier is interested in establishing services between Guangzhou and the coastal city. "Guangdong Province is prepared to financially support the new route. Flights could operate twice per week, most likely by Hainan Airlines, which is very interested in introducing services to Croatia and the region in general", CSEBA said. However, it warned that there is still much to negotiate and that politics also plays a big role in securing such flights.

Hainan Airlines, which earlier this month launched flights to Belgrade, said last week that in line with China's One Belt, One Road initiative, the carrier plans to continue expanding its presence outside of its home market, especially across countries in Central and Eastern Europe, most of which have already established close ties with China. In July, the CEO of the HNA Group, the parent company of Hainan Airlines, held talks with Croatia's President, Kolinda Grbar Kitarović, where the two discussed both investment opportunities and potential flights. HNA is believed to be interested in a concession of both Zadar and Osijek airports.

Zadar Airport had previously held talks with China Southern Airlines over possible services from Guangzhou, however, the carrier decided against launching the flights. It follows on from talks with Hainan Airlines in 2015 over possible services from Chongqing, in China's south-west, to Zadar, which would have continued on to Rome. Another HNA subsidiary - Beijing Capital Airlines - planned to commence services to Croatia, between Beijing and Zagreb, over the 2017 summer season. The carrier filed for a permit for a two weekly service with an Airbus A330-200 aircraft, however, the planned flights were later cancelled. Chinese companies are beginning to invest in Croatia's tourism sector, with Zhongya Holding, one of the leading developers from Guangdong Province, recently unveiling plans to invest some thirty million euros in the Krapinske Toplice health resort. Such projects are excepted to eventually result in the introduction of nonstop flights between the two countries.

157 comments:

  1. I hope Hainan reviews their plans to Croatia and starts flights to Zagreb and not Zadar!

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    Replies
    1. If Chinese want to finance flights to Zadar like it says why not?

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    2. Didn't someone just yesterday say how Croatia has no need for subsidised flights?

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    3. Read the article again. It says that Guangdong Province wants to financially support the flights, not Croatia.

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    4. I think flights from China to Dubrovnik would make much more sense than Zagreb.

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    5. How? The only passengers using the route to DBV would be tourists. ZAG would be good for tourists and business travel as well. You would also see a lot more Croats travelling from Zagreb to China than from Dubrovnik.

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    6. Unfortunately it seems that Dubrovnik is not very interested in flights to China. They said that the only two far away markets that have potential for flights to DBV are Korea and US.

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    7. @ Anonymous 9.16 you should know that Zadar has spent millions to get Ryanair to keep flying there.

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    8. That crapy irish airline!

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  2. I'm just waiting to here that Kosovo is pursuing flights to China. I think they are the only ones left.

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    Replies
    1. It is quite normal that Hainan is interested in ex-Yu because they are the official airline of the belt and road initiative

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    2. Except that exYU is far from being any important part of the Belt and Road. It may make sense that they connect one sport in exYU, maybe two. But this so-called ambition of each and every airport in the area to simultaneously connect with JFK and PEK is... amusing, to say the least.

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    3. "Except that exYU is far from being any important part of the Belt and Road."

      You better phone the Bank of China regional HQ in Belgrade, they seem to have understood it all wrong.

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  3. Great news, hope it will materialize this time!

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  4. Agree with the above. Guangzhou-Zadar really makes no sense at this point. Hopefully Hainan starts Zagreb flights.

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    Replies
    1. Why doesn't it make sense?

      1) HNA wants a concession of Zadar Airport so that is the main prize
      2) Local Chinese government wants to pay for these flights

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    2. Exactly. But the only thing they have to check is if croatian politic supports the concession idea.

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    3. Someone has to pay for the runway extension..

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  5. Maybe Beijing-Belgrade-Zagreb next summer?

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    Replies
    1. With fifth freedom rights, it would be fantastic!

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    2. That would be cool actually. Eventually when both can become self sustainable they can separate them. It would also make more sense geographically then the current way of flying to Prague and then going back down towards Belgrade.

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    3. Several yeas ago CSEBA suggested for flights to operate with that routing. At the time there were no flights between Belgrade and Zagreb.

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    4. CSEBA also announced that charters between Beijing and Zagreb would start in October 2014 and still nothing 3 years later.

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    5. They also announced flights from Zagreb to Astana a few years ago.

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    6. So another scam?

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    7. Flying to both Belgrade and Zagreb would be ludicrous for Hainan.

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    8. CSEBA and this Rensulić guy are a scam. Confirmed

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    9. So many promises from CSEBA, so non results till now.

      ExYU should really not put information about new routes after so many "failing" from CSEBA promises.

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  6. Didn't people already say here that the runway in Zadar is not long enough to accommodate flights from China?

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    Replies
    1. It can land but I think it cannot takeoff without some restrictions if a plane like the A330 is used.

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    2. As far as I remember Russians have used Il86 in the past to Zadar.

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    3. MOW is not longhaul
      Can't remember regular charter flights to MOW?

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  7. This is simply the perpetuation of the 'follow the leader' syndrome ...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Or the "big head" syndrome...

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  8. Maybe this could be a chance for Croatia Airlines to be sold to HNA. Now that would be great.

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    Replies
    1. That would be great for Croatia Airlines.

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    2. The government should be trying to secure that as much as possible.

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    3. Lufthansa would never allow it. They created 4K Invest to secure their future subsidiaries in ex-Yu.

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    4. Unfortunately the croatian government is not free to take such kind of decisions.

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  9. How are the HU BEG loads these days?

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    Replies
    1. I.doubt anyone knows that.

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  10. I think Croatia has a lot of potential to attract Chinese tourists.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, there is a huge potential from Chinese market.

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    2. Why? No shopping opportunity in Croatia.

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  11. You people are missing the point that China is involved in the new Zadar port, and that Alibaba are opening up a distribution complex in Zadar which would add alot of cargo on top of pax which is a well thought out strategy.

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    1. Ok now it makes more sense actually. Good for Zadar.

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    2. But what about the runway that people keep talking about. Can for example an A330 land and takeoff there?

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    3. Zadar can't handle A330 without restrictions and the Chinese can't send anything smaller than that.

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. @anon 9.20 Alibaba still hasn't made any decision about opening their distribution complex in Zadar and they are also interested in doing it in Serbia

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    6. @anon 9.54: There is one big obstacle to have it in Serbia. Serbia is not in EU and will not be there for 10 years more, at least. Having distribution center outside EU makes no sense to Alibaba.

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    7. Alen Šćuric PurgerSeptember 28, 2017 at 10:12 AM

      There is several cities in Europe to be candidate for Alibaba distributive center. Zadar is one of them. For sure Zadar has several advantages over other candidates:

      - brand new and modern harbor

      - airport with 2 runway and huge aprons, with mild climate without snow (small snow once in 3-4 years)

      - huge facilities and infrastructure on airport from JNA time

      - Split airport on just 140 km by highway and Zagreb 290 km by highway as alternatives

      - two more runways with possibility of use for military or other purpose in case of future development, of which one in Šepurine (abandoned) is just 18 km from airport, and Udbina military airport is 83 km mostly by highway

      - highway to Zagreb and Split-Dubrovnik is very near to airport

      - 4 lines brand new fast road connect Zadar airport with Zadar harbor and Zadar city

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    8. Zadar has two runways?

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    9. Yes, although the second one is 2000 meters long

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    10. wow interesting I had no idea. Cool. Is it the only commercial airport in ex-Yu with two runways?

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    11. Aliababa wants to come to Serbia

      http://www.politika.rs/scc/clanak/389676/Alibaba-zainteresovana-za-otvaranje-centra-u-Srbiji

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    12. Alibaba is interesting in 6 cities in Europe to open distributive center. At the end they will choose one of those, depend on conditions or support they will get from local government.

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    13. Key infrasfructure requirements these days for a project of this size: port, airport, freeway and rail.

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    14. Alen Šćuric PurgerSeptember 28, 2017 at 5:04 PM

      And Zadar has them all:
      - brand new port
      - airport with 2 runway, huge apron and lot of infrastructure already on it
      - highway very near to airport
      - rail near to airport and port
      - fast brand new road to port and highway

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    15. Hi Alen

      ZAD use to be JLA military base, is that the reason for 2 RW?

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    16. Alen Šćuric PurgerSeptember 28, 2017 at 6:25 PM

      Of course it is.

      P.S.
      It was not JLA, but JNA (Jugoslavenska narodna armija)

      Delete
  12. I wrote before that when you have a small market and you want flights from China politics has to be involved. The Serbs did it, and there were many condescending comments here about it. But finally someone else has said it. " However, it warned that there is still much to negotiate and that politics also plays a big role in securing such flights."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So far only Serbia has done something concrete in attracting the Chinese, both tourists and businesses. They abolished visas and several Chinese companies, including the Bank of China, have their regional HQ in Belgrade.

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    2. Abolishing visas was a huge step and sent the right signal to Chinese.

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    3. Croatia cannot simply decide to abolish visas. They are obliged to follow the EU code on that. Other exYU countries are too small for any kind of regular long haul routes, regardless of how much their politicians promote them as key hubs of the known universe.

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  13. Chinese tourists apparently spend the most money when they travel somewhere. More should be done to attract them to Croatia.

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    Replies
    1. They spend the most but the do the most of the mess too.

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    2. How do you mean? What mess?

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    3. Agree. They make even more mess than drunk british students. Leaving trash everywhere etc.

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    4. Tbh, Chinese tourists also go on massive shopping sprees. That could be the thing driving the spending up

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    5. Speaking of, just read this

      Chinese embassy in Singapore issues etiquette manual to its citizens arriving at Changi Airport

      I found this one interesting: "Another piece of sound advice from the embassy is that airline goods such as blankets must not be removed from the plane"

      http://www.businessinsider.sg/chinese-embassy-in-singapore-issues-etiquette-manual-to-its-citizens-arriving-at-changi-airport/

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  14. Great news. Nice to see they that advanced talks are taking place. I really hope something does come of it this time around. I think it's good that Zadar is attempting something different and are trying to diversify their offer.

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  15. Before it was the US, now it is China... Guys, stop with this obsession!

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    Replies
    1. Talking about all ex yu, or Serbia excluded?

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    2. Serbia is the only one that actually did something about it

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    3. I agree. But it is an obsession for Serbia too.

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    4. At least they managed to do something about their obsession that benefits the local market.

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    5. Well, the others can do the same, don't you think?

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  16. What combination are Chinese using the most to fly to Croatia at the moment? Aeroflot, Lufthansa?

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    1. Emirates I would assume.

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    2. Star Alliance hubs like Frankfurt, Munich and Vienna were most commonly used by Chinese to come to Zagreb. Might have changed now with Emirates.

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  17. China is seriously interested in economic and trade cooperation with Croatia so flight would make sense. I hope sooner rather than later.

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    Replies
    1. The problem is the croatian government.

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  18. Why did Beijing Capital Airlines cancel planned flights to Zagreb?

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    1. ZAG did not offer subsidies which Hainan hoped to get. ZAG will do so if the Croatian state chips in at some point later...
      Has nothing to do with any other reason.

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    2. Are you suggesting Belgrade Airport is offering subsidies to Hainan?

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    3. Didn't Vucic say they would financially support the route?

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    4. No, he said that they will see if they can help out in any way, not that they will give money to thrm.

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    5. Actually he said they will financially help. Several times.

      One of his famous press announcement was "I made this politically possible, now my ministers must find money to support that route".

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    6. Tekst g. Scurica
      https://tangosix.rs/2017/29/05/ima-li-smisla-avio-linija-peking-beograd/

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    7. No I am not suggesting anythin in regards to Belgrade. Just sharing what I know in regards to ZAG. Hainan made their choice for xy reasons we may only speculate about...but I know that Hainan did ask for the money...both from the chinese govmnt and zag.

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    8. Where is the proof Hainan received money from the Serbian government?

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    9. Well if PM said so, I don't need more proof. Why on earth would he said so if that was not true?

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  19. this kind of news comes every 2 months somewhere online, HR to USA, HR to China, Balkans to the moon...

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    Replies
    1. I know, exciting that talks are progressing. The growth across Croatian airports is phenomenal really and so much more to come. Moon, perhaps that too

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    2. Growth thanks to easyJet and Thompson bring tourists from every German and British village.

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    3. And Emirates, LOT, KLM, Transavia, Eurowings, Croatia, Norwegian BA,Red Wings Airlines.... Next year Aegean. So much growth. Well done Croatia

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    4. Alen Šćuric PurgerSeptember 28, 2017 at 11:39 AM

      And what is the problem in that? Thanks good that tourists have so many opportunities to travel from their villages. That is more than good for tourism and open much more potentials.

      Of course you know that more than 2 million tourists in Croatia last year were out of Europe.

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    5. And that 2 million is much more than Serbia or Montenegro had foreign tourists last year all together including tourists from exYu.

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    6. Serbia is not a tourist destination nor does it pretend to be one.
      Shall we compare HR to CZ? Lol

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    7. It is not? So what fore do you need Beijing route then?

      As far as I understand Government said it is about tourism.

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    8. @AnonymousSeptember 28, 2017 at 5:54 PM

      Yes, lets,

      CZ - 9.6 million tourist - 22 million nights
      Croatia - 15.6 million - 78 million nights

      In Central Europe, if we can call ex-communist states, only Poland might have more tourist visits, not the night.

      Croatia ranks among top 10 in tourist nights in Europe.


      2017 projection

      17.5 million tourist - 90 million nights.



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  20. When they when they

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  21. If it's Zadar, it should just be charter flights. Zagreb would make more sense and would allow for connections to the whole region. If Zadar is so interesting (port, etc.) other airlines would be scrambling to get there...and they are not.

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    1. I think there is interest in Zadar because Zadar Airport has been the only one that has had the initiative and been approaching Chinese carriers for a few years now.

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  22. Another Balkan obsession. Both BUD and VIE have flights to China. Why would they add ZAG?

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    Replies
    1. To top it all off Slovenian Infrastructure minister is also going around announcing flights from China to Ljubljana next year. And he has been doing it for some time already.

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    2. Alen Šćuric PurgerSeptember 28, 2017 at 11:23 AM

      It is not obsession at all.

      Croatia with more than 2 million tourists out of Croatia (and rising) has main goal to attract as many long-haul flights as it can. Here are the facts for 2016 (2017 will be some 10% better):

      S.Korea 377.779 (94.563 in Zagreb)
      USA 337.464 (53.541 in Zagreb)
      Australia 149.829 (17.516 in Zagreb)
      China 125.975 (31.453 in Zagreb)
      Japan 120.971 (21.796 in Zagreb)
      Canada 110.997 (18.776 in Zagreb)
      Taiwan 83.538 etc.

      And all of that is without direct flights (exempt Canada and Korea). So, think about how would direct route influence on number of tourists for those countries.

      And present number of tourists for sure make those possible routes less risk.

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    3. Yet BEG, VIE and BUD happened before ZAG.

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    4. Yes. But it is not obsession. It is real need here in Croatia concerning number of tourist.

      Obsession is when you open route with small, almost non potentials and spent money and resources for that non-potential route just because of promotion or political reason.

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    5. Serbia has almost the same number of Chinese tourists as Croatia, if not more by now.

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    6. I don´t know how Zagrab can have flights if has 2 million traffic per year.

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    7. Anonymous 5:52
      Please don't say those bullshits.

      Even official number (Serbia tourist organization) is 120% more than last year. Last year it was 18.000, so it will be 20.000 more than last year, total of 36.000.

      Croatia had 125.000 last year, this year 35% more, but in real numbers that is 45.000 more, total of 170.000.

      That means there is 25.000 more NEW Cheesiness tourist in Croatia than in Serbia.

      That also means Croatia has 134.000 more Chinese tourists than Serbia, what is some 300% more!

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    8. I did not say Zagreb, but Croatia.

      And yeas, some tourist lend on some other airports (VIE, BUD, MUC, VCE) but still they are Croatian potential, where Croatian airports should attract them by nonstop regular routes.

      Do you want to say that official numbers of tourist are false?

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    9. Serbia will have Chinese tourists in winter coming in with direct flights, something Croatia won't have. Just like there won't be any flights in the end.

      I mean I am still waiting for Garuda to buy OU. lol

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    10. You do know that Air Canada today announce 4 weekly flights to Zagreb next spring. That is more than Air Serbia will have to JFK on average yearly bases.

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    11. Those are seasonal.

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    12. And 2 flights per week via PRG, what is some 100 passenger per flight and 850 per month, so 4250 Chinese during winter is some important number?

      Croatia has much more than that during winter. Some 22.000 Chinese tourist visit Croatia during winter. So, what is your point?

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  23. I think Croatia Airlines should have led the charge here. They would have a lot to gain if a Chinese airline started flying to Zagreb. They could then fly passengers to Dubrovnik, Split or Zadar and fill up the unprofitable domestic flights...

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  24. The management at Zadar Airport is about to change and a politically appointed HDZ member CEO/GM is about to take over with no knowledge of aviation whatsoever. We will see if he will be interested in China as much as the current CEO Irena Cosic.

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    Replies
    1. Who is the person taking over?

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    2. Josip Klišmanić

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    3. Shame I think Cosic did a pretty good job.

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  25. When talking about flights between China and Croatia, for me it would be most logical for Air China to start flights from Beijing to Zagreb. As a Star Alliance member it could cooperate well with Croatia Airlines.

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    Replies
    1. I doubt it because they serve Vienna and they probably think this covers the region. Remember the news a few weeks ago when Thai said that by launching flights to Vienna they will be serving the Croatian and Slovenian markets?

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  26. How many Chinese visit Croatia?

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    Replies
    1. Alen Šćuric PurgerSeptember 28, 2017 at 11:30 AM

      125.975 last year,

      till July 2017 there were 37% more Chinese tourist in Croatia, and if that stays in rest of the year it will make some

      170.000 tourist from China in 2017. in Croatia

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    2. around 5 times as many as in Serbia. And Chinese are coming to Zagreb year round, Christmas this year, all hotels booked out, almost, 80% booking for most 4 and 5* hotels in Zagreb.

      We're not even in October. Christmas time, no hotel room will be free. 120 000 foreign visitors expected, likely 150 000.

      Zagreb is likely to have 1.35 million visitors this year. in 2018, at least 1.55 million and 2019, 1.75 million.



      Delete
  27. Does Croatia have enough capacity to accommodate a big influx of Chinese?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alen Šćuric PurgerSeptember 28, 2017 at 11:33 AM

      Yes. Just in Zagreb and near surrounding there were 20 hotels and hostels opened or start construction in last year. Another 8 were rebuild and increase capacity.

      Delete
    2. Actually not. Tour operators are desperately trying to get allotment.
      There are more supply than demand for FIT, but for group supply is critically short.

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    3. Zagreb has 20 4* Hotels, three 5* hotels and 37 Three star hotels.

      For total of 60 hotels as of now, there are several inns and guest houses, all classed as 2*, and not really aimed for group visit or stay, mostly on Medvednica and around.

      Of 60 Hotels and some 8200 rooms on offer, currently Zagreb can cope with current demand which is around 2.5 million nights.

      However Zagreb will need additional hotels soon.

      There are 50 hostels with additional 1700 beds and air&bnb additional 1500 beds, however long term that won't be enough, by 2020 Zagreb will need total of 4.5 million nights, right now Zagreb is offering around 3.5 million nights.

      http://www.infozagreb.hr/planiranje-putovanja/smjestaj/hoteli&stars=273

      Zagreb needs additional 1.5 million nights (4100 beds) on the market by 2021. So at least 20 average hotels to be built in Zagreb in coming 3-4 years, just to meet the demand.


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  28. Let's hope some of these developments materialize into some actual investments in Croatia in 2018.

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  29. If HU starts flying directly to BEG starting from next spring and JU signs code share with them (both options expected) there will be no need this airline to open direct line to Croatia.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alen Šćuric PurgerSeptember 28, 2017 at 12:03 PM

      With 170.000 Chinese tourists this year in Croatia and increasing of 37% sure there is.

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    2. Given that Chinese tourist like Plitvice lakes and the historic heritage of Dalmatia I would put my money on flights to Zadar. A lot of my money in fact.

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    3. Just because Chinese come to Croatia doesn't mean they will fly there directly. BUD and VIE are much more convenient as they can then go in several different directions.

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    4. Possible but there are various lines of interest to huge Chinese market. Some of them will find interest in having a direct connection to Croatian coast as well. Croatian airports are expanding and becoming more visible and attractive to different airlines. Zadar is never going to be a huge airport but will attract its piece of the pie.

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    5. Beside of that it would be good to have another long runway on the coast between Pula and DBV

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  30. The time will tell.
    I do not think HU will be coming to Croatia soon

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  31. I don't understand what does the Zadar airport have to do with chinese flights instead of ZAG, SPU or DBV.
    This news is going to be blowing in the wind.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SPU has no infrastructure for intercontinentals - and won't have.

      Delete
  32. Zadar makes sense for charter flights with its position in the middle of counrty. It is very close to highway and a lot of attractions are few hours away with a bus, which seems the preffered means of transport for big charter groups. It is very easy to plan whole package of trips from there. It makes more sense than landing in DBV and than plan every other night in some other town. With ZAD you have much better coverage (plitvice, rastoke, whole island archipelago, few hours away from zagreb, istra, southern dalmatia, even montenegro and slovenia). You also get much cheaper landing fees and less stressed airport which can concentrate more on your needs during turnaround.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not true. They don't need something in middle but at the edge, so it is Zagreb or/and Dubrovnik. Because Chinese tourist routes usually looks like:

      Zagreb-Kumrovec-Plitice-Zadar-Kornati-Split-Dubrovnik

      It would be stupid to make it Zadar-Plitvice-Kumrovec-(Zadar)-Split-Dubrovnik-Zadar

      Delete
    2. What makes you think they will stay in Croatia the whole time? They don't do that in Austria, The Czech Republic or Hungary.

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    3. Even if they go to Austria, Hungary, Slovenia, they always go to Dubrovnik and Zagreb. And in that case Zadar is even less logic.

      Zadar-Dubrovnik-(Zadar)-Zagreb-Budapest-Vienna-Zadar

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    4. And having a plane land to a expensive ZAG and then go ferry to some other place, plus vise versa equally expensive situation at DBV makes sense?

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    5. So how you explain Emirates, Air Canada, Korean, Air Transat in Zagreb next summer. That will be 14 wide bodies per week.

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    6. This is only a tip of the iceberg... ;)

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  33. The Chinese are travelling with group mainly It's unrealistic. The group allotments at hotels in Croatia for 2018 are already booked out pretty much.

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  34. Chinese Southeast European Business Association (CSEBA)、is dodgy con man...

    ReplyDelete
  35. Zaggy can be connected to both Beijing and Shanghai just like PRG. ZAG-PEK: 4 flights pw and ZAG-SHA 3 i.e. daily flights to China.

    ReplyDelete

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