Tuesday, November 21, 2017

Foreign carriers to vie for inter-EX-YU route


The governments of Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina have finalised a draft agreement which calls upon foreign carriers to operate subsidised flights between the three countries. "The contents of the agreement between Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina has been settled and will be forwarded to all airlines operating in the region. Carriers will be requested to make their offers. The proposed routing for the service is Skopje - Podgorica - Sarajevo", the Macedonian Prime Minister, Zoran Zaev, said. He noted that Bulgaria could also join the Macedonian-led initiative. Unless the service is operated by Montenegro Airlines, it would involve a carrier being granted seventh freedom rights, which allows an airline to operate international flights between two foreign nations with no onwards service to its own country.

The only foreign airline that maintains services between two former Yugoslav states is Flydubai, which on November 1 introduced flights from Sarajevo to Podgorica. The route was made possible as the United Arab Emirates has an open skies agreement in place with both Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina, enabling the designated carrier to operate with full flexibility on routes, capacity, frequency and types of aircraft, in any type of service, including the exercise of fifth freedom rights. These rights give Flydubai the freedom to carry traffic between two foreign countries on a flight that either originated in or is destined for the United Arab Emirates. Macedonia is also a signatory to the open skies agreement with the UAE. Another potential operator for the service between Skopje, Podgorica and Sarajevo could include Wizz Air, which has a base in the Macedonian capital.

The governments of Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina believe the new route will boost trade and tourism, as well as people to people exchange. Bosnia and Herzegovina's former flag carrier, B&H Airlines, maintained flights between Sarajevo and Skopje on an off-and-on basis for several years. At one point services operated via Podgorica as well, although the airline had no fifth freedom rights between the Montenegrin capital and Skopje. Earlier this month, the Chairman of the Council of Ministers of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Denis Zvizdić, said an airline had expressed interest for the introduction of flights between Sofia and Sarajevo via Skopje, however, he did not specify which carrier was considering the route.

112 comments:

  1. It would make most sense for it to be Montenegro Airlines, although I don't get the point of having another airline flyimg TGD-SJJ if Flydubai is already there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Maybe it will be Skopje- Podgorica and Skopje-Sarajevo.

      Delete
    2. Not according to the PM.

      Delete
    3. So what if Flydubai is flying SJJ-TGD. A little competition never hurt anyone.

      Delete
    4. It's ridiculous because one of the airlines would be subsidized and the other would not.

      Delete
    5. You are forgetting that Flyubai is flying to Podgorica only seasonally. These subsidized flights will likely begin in summer 2018 when Flydubai will no longer be operating this route.

      Delete
    6. True I forgot about that.

      Delete
  2. Adria's SB would be a good fit for the route

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And it seems like a route Adria would operate.

      Delete
    2. if its fully subsidized then JP might be in

      Delete
    3. and Lodz was very likely eh? JP would fly everywhere as long there is money thrown at them

      Delete
    4. True. They also applied to fly BUD-ex-Yu routes but didn't win the tender.

      Delete
    5. oh interesting, hear it for the first time

      Delete
    6. Not exactly. They didn't apply because they didn't meet the requirements of the tender (since it was made specifically for Wizz Air) but they did intend to apply like it said here
      http://www.exyuaviation.com/2015/12/adria-eyes-entry-into-hungarian-market.html

      Delete
  3. Interesting concept, very uneconomical in the real world... FZ is in a sweet spot with this because of the route characteristics during the low season between DXB and SJJ. Effective S18, I'd be surprised to see this tag-on surviving... will almost certainly go direct to both destinations. The only logical carrier to do this is YM, and if the money offered is go, they should jump ASAP with their situation...

    Speaking of FZ, from 16 Mar, the 737 MAX8 will be deployed daily to BEG, replacing the 738 on the route.

    ReplyDelete
  4. This "tender" or "expressions of interests" reeks as if being set up for someone.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree. They just came up with this idea 2 weeks ago and they are already sending letters for interest and have found money to cover the costs. This is being done for someone.

      Delete
    2. Well since the initiative is coming from Macedonia the only airline they have an interest in is Wizz Air but I fail to see how such a route could ever work for them.

      Delete
    3. I have a better proposal for Wizz Air:

      SKP-SJJ
      SJJ-TGD
      TGD-SJJ
      SJJ-SKP

      SKP-TGD
      TGD-BEG
      BEG-TGD
      TGD-BEG

      :D

      Delete
    4. nope

      BUD-SJJ
      SJJ-TGD
      TGD-SKP
      SKP-BUD

      Delete
  5. Air Serbia could send an Aviolet B737 to fly this route. It would be like the good old days. A "YU" registered plane flying between Macedonia, Bosnia, Montenegro. In fact it is exactly the same plane that used to fly these routes 27 years ago :D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah probably exactly the same B737. No thanks. Those planes need to be disposed of - sooner rather than later

      Delete
    2. @Anon 9.09 I was joking ;)

      Delete
    3. Air Serbia shot itself in the foot by naming itself Air Serbia.

      Delete
    4. Even if it was named Air Tunguzija Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia would never give them fifth freedom rights.

      Delete
    5. One of the best comments on here. :D

      Delete
    6. Don't be so sure. Jat Airways received rights from the EU to operate Portoroz-Rome in 2012 with an ATR72. So a non EU airline got a permit to fly inside the EU. They never started the route but they got the air traffic rights.

      Delete
    7. if that is one of the best comments on here then we finally know whats your state of mind is. thx for clearing up

      Delete
    8. So many butthurt jatovci on here

      Delete
    9. Anon 10.10
      The only thing it shows is that you have absolutely no sense of humour. Relax.

      Delete
    10. Why old 737? They have an A319, or A319s currently surplus capacity, right?

      Delete
  6. Is there any demand for this route. I mean who flies from Podgorica to Skopje?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Montenegro Airlines used to but they were banned by Skopje Airport because of debt. I read somewhere last year that they finally settled that debt.

      Delete
    2. There may be demand you never know. No one wanted to fly Budapest-Podgorica or Budapest-Skopje until the Hungarian government gave subsidies to Wizz Air. The routes are now a major success.

      Delete
    3. try to get to Sarajevo from Skopje!

      Delete
    4. @10:09 AM
      SKP-SJJ via LJU, ZAG or VIE (all *A members).

      Thank me later.

      Delete
    5. no thanks...
      you can have also included BEG (its actually the most convenient one geografically)

      Delete
    6. @ Anonymous November 21, 2017 at 10:26 AM

      All of those involve a journey time of over 4 hours! So for someone to get from Skopje to Podgorica they would have to allocate half a day.

      Delete
  7. Please finally get a low cost airline to fly inside ex-Yu!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. and if it works extend onto other routes too!

      Delete
    2. I don't think an LCC can make any money on such route, that's why there are none flying inside ex-Yu.

      Delete
    3. I agree. I'm waiting for the day Wizz Air is allowed to start flights between exYu cities.

      Delete
    4. Wizz Air now is not allowed to operate flights??

      Delete
    5. No. Most ex-Yu countries have regulated air traffic between each other through bilateral air agreements, pretty much allowing only national airlines to fly. I mean just look at Serbia and Croatia. Croatia doesn't want to allow JU to start Zadar for over a year now because it sells transfer tickets from Croatia via BEG and apparently that isn't allowed which is nonsense.

      Delete
    6. Another issue for LCCs to fly inter EX-YU flights is the huge taxes at all these airports, especially Sarajevo and Podgorica. I don't think Fly dubai makes any money on that route. The ticket price is basically just taxes.

      Delete
    7. W6 could not fly BEG-SJJ or BEG-TGD or BEG-SKP but W6 could fly SJJ-ZAG or ZAG-BEG or LJU-SKP or LJU-BEG etc

      Delete
    8. Exactly. They can fly EU to non-EU country but not non-EU to non-EU, unless all the governments agree, as it may be the case here.

      Delete
    9. Alen Šćuric PurgerNovember 21, 2017 at 8:23 PM

      You are idealizing too much potentials of inter-exYU flights. In Crotia Wizz, easyJet or any other airline can fly Dubrovnik-Zagreb. For sure one of the best inter-exYU routes with 33 weekly flights on summer mostly with A320 (22 on winter). But still no interest at least in season. What about any flight from Zagreb, Ljubljana, Split, Zadar, Pula or Dubrovnik to any exYU destination? No interest at all for Ryanair, easyJet or Wizzair and they have hundreds of weekly flights from exYU airports.

      There is no money in those short routes with low potential.

      Delete
    10. Alen, guys from macedonia said they will subsidize these routes

      Delete
  8. There were some talks about introducing a triangle SOF-SKP-SJJ when the Bulgarian PM visited Bosnia. But I have no idea who might introduce these flights considering that FB is 100% private owned company. Also considering that they are stagnating and cutting routes and frequencies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm surprised that Wizz haven't started the route between SOF and SKP considering the success that they have for SOF-VAR. It is daily and now they have upgraded it to A321

      Delete
    2. What about BH Airlines (the Bulgarian one)?

      Delete
    3. @Anonymous November 21, 2017 at 9:38 AM
      BH Airlines is in a very difficult position because of the A330 that they leased for the JFK flights that never materialized. They used to be one of the most profitable Bulgarian Airlines, but last year they ended on loss. From 6 aircraft now they are left with only 3 and are struggling to survive. It is good they never started the JFK because they were going to go bankrupt.

      Delete
    4. Thanks, what I shame. I wasn't aware that they were doing it that tough.

      Delete
  9. This will only work if the pricing is at LCC levels. Otherwise, it will be dead on arrival ...

    ReplyDelete
  10. Turkish Airlines finally creating its own airline based in Skopje ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Everything south of Danube will be OUA, Ottoman United Airlines. Telling you the truth, all is politics. The prize for Turkey not joing the EU is the Balkans. Thats why they build roads, airports, airlines. Very dangerous development. Thanks god Bulgaria and Romania escaped just in time!

      Delete
    2. I think that the Balkans needs some airline that will act as a regional player. May be something similar to SAS, of course much smaller...

      Delete
    3. anon 9:29
      u were watching Game of Thrones before you posted here?

      Delete
    4. anon 9.29: conspiracy theory yawn, give us a break seriously

      Delete
  11. Good regional project. I like it.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I just realised neither Macedonia or Bosnia have a national airline.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. With Montenegro to follow suit soon.

      Delete
    2. Good morning anon 9.28

      Delete
    3. ... and the other ex-yu who have their national airlines, are doing an excellent job in running them

      Delete
    4. last anon haha good one

      Delete
    5. I think all of them are in a much better place then they were 4-5 years ago.

      Delete
    6. and I don't think so

      Delete
  13. Maybe Qatar Airways could extend their Skopje flight to Podgorica. From what I've heard the SKP route is doing all that great, plus it would be a good opportunity to start Podgorica and compete against Flydubai.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you sure SKP is not doing well?

      Delete
    2. is your english not good enough?

      Delete
    3. I think he meant to write *not* doing all that great.

      Delete
    4. Yes I wanted to say not doing that great. I don't have reliable info and I don't know if they are making money. But I have had 5 people I know fly on this route already and each one of them said the plane was half full and they all flew in different times. We will see. I certainly hope they let the route develop but if they are unable to sell seats they can always try linking it to another city. I don't know if them launching Thessaloniki next year could further affect this route to Skopje.

      Delete
  14. 'He noted that Bulgaria could also join the Macedonian-led initiative'

    Nice so the final routing will be:
    SOF-SKP-TGD-SJJ-TGD-SKP-SOF

    Like in the good old days, back in 1932.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hahaha with crew rest in Sarajevo :D

      Delete
    2. can we add INI here somewhere?

      Delete
    3. INI is part of the north-south line, something along the lines of:
      BNX-KVO-INI-SKG

      Delete
  15. Would be interesting to see the terms of this deal.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I remember years ago that Atlasjet (now Atlasglobal) wanted to set up an airline with bases in Sarajevo, Skopje, Podgorica and Tirana.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh yes I seem to remember that. What happened?

      Delete
    2. It was related to them buying B&H Airlines after Turkish Airlines pulled out. That never happened and neither did their Balkan airline initiative.

      Delete
  17. Im sure they can rely on some EU funds here.
    If Vueling can get 900k for Asturias-London ...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dokle mislis da se moze placati avioprevoz parama poreskih obaveznika? Ova inicijativa je upravo to. Ko moze naci barem 160 putnika da leti Skoplje Podgorica osim tri skole za ekskurziju?

      Delete
    2. nemora let biti dnevno ...

      Delete
  18. I would much rather the Bosnian government subsidize Sarajevo-Frankfurt then Sarajevo-Skopje!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. +100 or SJJ-CDG, SJJ-LHR. Apart from the fact that there would actually be more passengers on this route, it would also be much more useful then SJJ-SKP.

      Delete
    2. SJJ-FRA would not need much subsidizing, if it would be done six days a week double daily with a star alliance code. That was the very idea for basing an OU plane there a few years ago: a early morning rotation to FRA from SJJ and a second rotation late in the evening. And filling the time in between with two rotations to other cities that are served only 1 to 3 pw.

      But nowadays I would not count on OU, that they are considering that again. Adria would be now the ideal company for that. However, they seam to prioritize subsidizes way to much compared to good marketing.

      Delete
  19. Some EU fund probably will give money for this route with some explanation that it will improve regional cooperation. If the EU is giving the money then it will certainly be operated by an EU registered airline.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hungary is financing Wizz's BUD-ExYu.

      Delete
    2. Should be noted that the tender for the BUD-ExYu flights was fixed in favor of Wizz Air from the start. The conditions were ridiculous and the only airline that could fulfill them was Wizz.

      Delete
    3. totally agree with you

      Delete
  20. two weekly SKP-TGD-SJJ could work on a smaller aircraft. Like someone said those Adria Saabs fit in nicely on this route.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. two weekly is bad for business pax . at least 3 weekly

      Delete
  21. If there was demand on these sort of routes, they would already be operated. The sooner everyone here moves on from the 'ex-YU' nonsense, the better. It's like calling the region "Ex Ottoman Empire". Look forward, not backwards, the young generation don't give a damn about Yugoslavia and all the fake nostalgia, and unless the diaspora intend on returning to the region, their view is irrelevant to the real future of the nations of the Western Balkans.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah yeah sure. Like it or not this region is bounded by family ties and business ties. Just because a route did not operate before does not mean that demand has never existed. There are so many examples of routes that did not operate just a year ago and turned out to be a success. And the young generation first goes to their neighboring countries to travel and visit, listen to music from those countries etc.

      Delete
    2. Sto je jos jedan nonsens zvati SFRJ zapadnim Balkanom. Kazi lepo Jugoslavija.

      Delete
    3. It seems to me annon 11.04 you are the only one looking backwards and trying to escape from something.

      Delete
    4. lol Western Balkans ...

      you cannot look forward when you cannot get to your neighbours

      Delete
    5. The neighbours of interest nowadays are no longer the same as in the past. Most of the ex-YU countries are more aligned through business to their neighbouring EU countries then ever before. Business and family ties are fading slowly but surely. Do you really think that if there was such latent demand on, say SKP-SJJ, that the existing airline would be saving that route in their back pocket to 'surprise' us as some future date? No chance.

      Delete
    6. This to me seems as finally looking to the future. Like it or not, these western balkan countries have no chance of ever entering the EU, if they don't learn to play nice with each other. Establishing closer ties is the way to go forward. Serbia and Albania should be included.

      Delete
    7. again some crap propaganda from the croatian guy that hates SKP @anon 7.52

      Delete
  22. Can't wait to see which airline gets the money to fly this route.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think it will be Montenegro Airlines. It would be the easiest and most logical. But then again Montenegro Airlines and logic don't go together.

      Delete
  23. Trade Air should consider these flights.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Well here is a chance for Croatia Airlines to open its Balkan bases like they planned :D

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think those dreams left the company together with Kucko.

      Delete
  25. This will mean traveling with ID CARD only between those countries who have bilateral agreements which is good !

    ReplyDelete
  26. For the last 12 months, SJJ-SKP traffic (indirect via another airport) was a little over 2,100 passengers, 71% of whom transferred via ZAG. Contrast this with almost 70,000 passengers on Belgrade-Bucharest (of which almost exactly 50% of 35,000 were point to point passengers) and the comment about so-called "Ex-YU" by previous poster rings very true. The winds of change blow everywhere, even here.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you are the one coming always two days later on SKP related topics to share your hate. Ok we got it.

      people take the bus. Thank you

      Delete

EX-YU Aviation News does not tolerate insults, excessive swearing, racist, homophobic or any other chauvinist remarks or provocative posts with the intention of creating further arguments. A full list of comment guidelines can be found here. Thank you for your cooperation.