Summer charters to North America

Soon in Belgrade
Ryan International Airlines will commence summer charters from Chicago Rockford International Airport and Toronto’s Pearson Airport to Belgrade. Each service will operate once per week with a Boeing B767-300, Serbian media report. Both flights will be served via a technical stop in Shannon, Ireland. It is expected that seats will be sold to tour operators who will then resell tickets to passengers. Flights are scheduled to commence in June. On Monday, the Serbian Civil Aviation Directorate issued an operating license to Ryan International, granting it permission to begin the Belgrade flights. Services between Belgrade and Toronto will be resumed after 5 years. Skyservice operated flights between the two cities in 2006. On the other hand, there have been no flights between Belgrade and Chicago since 1992.

Ryan International Airlines is a charter airline which also serves the United States Army and several other departments of the United States Government.

Meanwhile, later today, it is expected that Croatia will be granted a category 1 rating by the US Federal Aviation Administration, in turn allowing Croatian registered airlines to commence flights to the United States. An as yet unnamed airline is expected to innagurate flights between New York and Zagreb, according to Zagreb Airport’s CEO, this year. An announcement in regards to the future service could be made later today.


  1. Anonymous09:09

    Where the hell is Rockford?

    As for the service with the stop in Shannon could it be that they are still not sure wether it will be a 767-300 or a 757-200 so they are just keeping it like that?

  2. Lukavi Bosanac!09:16

    Go Croatia! Hope there are flights across the Atlantic soon to and from Zagreb, and other Croatian cities. The Bosnians will fly to and via Croatia no doubt about that :)

    Hajmo Hrvatska braca!

  3. Purger09:25

    By Cat 1 code-share between Croatia and United on flights from Croatia to USA will immediately come to realisation. Contract is already sighn and code-share will start soon as Cat 1 come out. I presume it would be from summer time table.

    Information was presented to me on meeting with CTN general manager mr. Srecko Šimunovic, in december.

  4. JU520 BEGLAX10:27


    who will fly the route? Will OU lease any widebodies or will one of the Star Alliance Partner help out?
    For example TK could do a flight IST-ZAG-JFK

    good luck. I m sure that ZAG-JFK during Summer would work out easely with good connections to other ex YU cities plus the adriatic coast.

  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

  6. Purger10:34

    No, no, no, no, no... you understand wrong. Code-share with United was prepared for 2 years now, and contract is already sighn. But it is not for direct flights but via LHR, CDG, AMS, BRU, FCO, FRA, ZRH, MUC to 7 destinations in USA.

  7. Anonymous10:37

    Зашто се овде, углавном, комуницира на (често лошем) енглеском? Претпостављам да готово сви заинтересовани овде знају српски...

    Zašto se ovdje, uglavnom, komunicira na (često lošem) engleskom? Pretpostavljam da ovdje gotovo svi zainteresirani/ zainteresovani znaju hrvatski, bosanski, crnogorski...

    Why the communication here, generally, is (often in bad) English? I guess most of us interested, speak Serbian, Croatian, Bosniac, Montenegrin....

  8. Peter from Sydney10:43

    @ the last anonymous, this blog is in English. Just because the subject matter is EX YU doesn't mean communication should be in Serbian/Croatian.

  9. Anonymous11:06

    I do not get it, so the whole point of the press conference is to announce code-share of OU with United?

    By the way since the new flight from the US to Belgrade will be flown from an airport in the middle of nowhere shall we expect the prices to be dirt cheap?

  10. JU520 BEGLAX11:49


    I hardly speak serbo-croatian or no macedonian at all, that s why we, especially the once abroad, would like to keep exchanging in English.

    Thanks for your understanding and have a good day from Switzerland

  11. btw-new route for ZAD with CTN:

    OU4468 ZAD1745 – 1935ZRH DH4 15
    OU4469 ZRH1525 – 1705ZAD DH4 15

  12. ^ Unless there is some breaking news, this has already been scheduled as tomorrow’s news item along with some other new routes.

  13. @ Purger

    Delta has been code-sharing on DL/AF flights North.Am.-ZAG, via CDG, for more than 2 years now, and Continental on CO/LH via FRA, for almost a year now. AC is code-sharing, too.

    So, what's so spectacular here abou US carriers flying in code-share with one-stop to Croatia? What's new and better for croatian passengers, croatian airline industry? Nothing.

    OU will continue their humiliating feeder services, only majority of passengers they've fed to LH till now, will now be split between LH and UA.

    I just keep my fingers crossed that one day, very soon to come, HR will become a normal country, and some croatian operator will be allowed ( I mean allowed by croatian authorities, because now we have US authorities' permit), to commence long-range flights, firstly to North America, as a consequence of FAA IASA cat1, and later go East, as well.

  14. @EX-YU
    I tought that maybe you didnt know about ZAD-ZRH route, so I posted it here, 'cause there aint no information about it in the "new routes" section :)

    btw-New routes? Can you tell us at least which ones? :) no details necessary :)

  15. *sorry, typing mistake - thought :)

  16. Jeebusman15:18

    This is a win for both Croatia and Serbia. Flights to NYC via Zagreb and flights to Toronto and Chicago via Belgrade. I like the fact that they are all different flights so that the region could use the two for different destinations.

    @Lukavi Bosanac

    Not cool dude. Nationalism is not welcome here. And you are forgetting that half of Bosnia is Serb anyway, and I'm sure that they will prefer using Belgrade because lets face it, there is still nationalism in Bosnia today.


    So what if Croatia gets CAT I. Yes, it can have its own airlines operate flights to USA, but that would be too costly for any airline. So I do not really see CAT I as being a win for long-haul travel, I see it as a win for good service.

    @Ex-Yu Aviation

    Would you think it would be a good idea for the charter airlines traveling from Toronto and Chicago to stop @ JFK and then going to Belgrade? I mean those flights would be so packed, I think it would be difficult to get a ticket.

  17. Anonymous15:19

    Off Topic: I honestly hope that everyone in the Ex-Yu region is rooting for Nole in the AO Final!!!!

  18. I think Purger meant that until now OU couldn't use its flight codes on UA or LH flights to the US. With Croatia being classified as CAT1, this will be possible now. I hope this is not the only reason for them to have a press conference today. I am expecting Continental to announce the EWR-ZAG service starting this summer and OU/JU each one daily flight, code sharing on ZAG-BEG route.

  19. @ Lukavi Bosanac and Jeeb

    Most of Bosnians coming from the US and Canada use ZAG, SPU and even DBV as their final destination and then they either drive by bus or get picked up by their relatives to get to Bosnia. The only two airlines you can fly from the US/Canada's cities to get to SJJ with 2 stops are Lufthansa and Austrian. Their flights tend to be around $500 more than what you pay to fly to ZAG/SPU/DBV or you can fly United/Croatia and make an extra (third) stop in ZAG to finally get to SJJ. Instead of making that 3rd stop and waiting more time at the airport, many people just take a car or bus and drive to their final destination in Bosnia. Very few Bosnians from the US use BEG as their final or transit destination on their way home but I know some who did it becasue it was much cheaper. I would say that for Bosnians from AUS/NZ would have more sense to connect via BEG or IST on their way home. Would be even faster if JAT had an airplane capable DXB-BEG flight with no stops.

  20. Anonymous16:26


    I think you are right that it will be EWR-ZAG with Continental (soon to be United since the merger). As for Bosnians, I think it greatly depends on where there final destination is geographically. SW Bosnia will use SPU or DBV. NW Bosnia will use ZAG. Central Bosnia will use SJJ. Eastern Bosnia goes for BEG or SJJ. I for one mostly use SJJ, but sometimes SPU. For me both are convenient, but pricing varies. Some years SPU is cheaper and some SJJ.

    All I know is that any progress towards any transatlantic flights is good. The more options and less wasted connection time, the better.

  21. Anonymous18:26

    Basicly a lot of Bosnians are using LCC flights all around Europe to Split and Dubrovnik and going by roads to their homeland for summer to visit family and friends, very often family and friends are waiting for them in SPU and DBV. So I think that our national companies should think about that huge number of passangers are not using their their "great" regional leader offers with transfers in BEG or ZAG but chosing more cheaper offers for European tourist to Dalmatia, simply because SPU and DBV have the biggest number of cheap flights in the region ... Look at Norwegian, do you really think that they have tripple daily (SPU and DBV included from all Norwegian destinations) 180 Norwegian tourists per flight to Dalmatia??? Norway with a very big number of Bosinans???

  22. Jeebusman18:29


    I am not complaining that Bosnians use Croatian airports, but I do not understand why not use BEG when it is much cheaper to fly to Bosnia from BEG. Bosnian Serbs do it all the time, and not just because they are Serbs, but because it is in fact much cheaper.


    I don't think Continental or any big US airline will announce the flights. They would not keep it so secret. It''ll probably also be charter airlines mostly because American and Delta already have flights to Athens and Budapest, respectively, so the Ex-Yu market for them is not in great interest yet. After Ryan Int'l operates its flights this summer, maybe there will be a change in thinking. And who knows, maybe the charter flights will be extended to an all-year round service. If that happens, we could very well see many more airlines interested in servicing both ZAG and BEG (especially when the two are also connected by flights). Also, there are unconfirmed reports that US Airways is interested in BEG, and it HAS been confirmed that it is opening a regional office for the Ex-Yu region in Belgrade. So who knows...maybe, but unlikely.

  23. Anonymous18:31

    I have been waiting for the announcement of the airline that will operate the ZAG-NYC flights. It's probably some bullshit that the airport director said just to attract interest for rebuilding the airport. Why the hell would they keep this secret? Is the carrier that embarrassed to start these flights? I am beginning to think that they don't exist at all.

    And yes, Go NOVAK!!!!

  24. Nezavisna Republika Srpska18:57

    Very nice to see this route taking off to Belgrade. Good luck Ryan airlines.


    Anonymous above I agree
    Hajde NOLE svi te vole

  25. Anonymous19:08

    For ZAG-NYC route it is not definetely CO/UA and definetely not Star Alliance member, because Croatia Airlines all the time in connection to CAT 1 announcement is speaking only about a code-share with UA via European hub, not speaking about any direct flights at all. ZAG-NYC could be either charter or nothing. On the other side there are also rumours about weekly charter flights ZAG-Toronto (Hamilton) ops by EuroAtlantic Airlines (from Portugal) and Croatian Aviation Authorities has also recieved a request from Ryan International charters to Chicago, probably the Rockford APT too ...


  27. Anonymous21:29

    What about
    As I am informed they have asked for approval on Croatia-USA route.

  28. Aleks Nikolic USA21:39

    Yes this is good news!!! For Beograd and Zagreb. But if I wanted to fly from Cleveland to Beograd, how would i get to Rockford when NO ONE flies there. I think it would have been smarter for them to fly from O'hare to Beograd, where there would be more people on the flights connecting wise. The happiest people will probably be the Serbian disapora in the Chicago area, as they are setlled all around Rodkford, and will make it easy to get there by car, and from downtown Chicago. I guess from Cleveland, best choice it through Toronto? :DD

  29. Ryan Int'l or EuroAtlantic, I am not flying it. Charter airlines are just not reliable. What if they cancel your flight and you are stuck for another week in ZAG or BEG. I would love to have an extra week of vacation but if I returned to my job one week later than expected, I guess I should just not return at all :) Compared to regular airlines, the charter ones are not required to put you on another flight in case their flight gets cancelled. You are on your own. Besides that, flying Star, One World or Sky Team allows me to accrue miles and eventually get a free ticket. Unless CO/UA or some other respectable airline starts the non-stop service, I am not taking a chance on those 3rd class airlines.

  30. Purger23:03

    It was announced. Croatia is in CAT 1. And as I said CTN will start code-share via LHR, CDG, BRU, AMS, ZRH, FRA and MUC to several destinations in USA.

    First that is something very good for Croatia because lines to ZAG, DBV and SPU from USA would be in Croatia Airlines time-table, but also in United time-table.

    Now we are in CAT 1, and visa to USA would be cancled till end of year. For sure that would be big push for travelers USA-Cratia and region, and maybe even start for direct flights.

  31. Anonymous23:06

    I really don't think that United or Continental would fly to Ex-Yu especially because Lufthansa is a major player, and will most likely tell them not to. Lufthansa thrives on the Ex-Yu population using it as well as Virgin Atlantic among others in Western Europe, so they will not be happy with these announced flights. As for the charters to BEG, they are not in Lufthansa's grasp and can do whatever they want without direct repercussions. Unfortunately, United and Continental cannot. Thus it is extremely unlikely that either of them will inaugurate flights to Croatia.


    I understand you completely, but at least you have to appreciate the fact that such flights now exist. I'd rather have that option than not have it. And the summer season is usually's the winter season that's fucked up. So I don't expect to see many problems.

    Any tips on BEG's second runway? With these long-haul flights now taking place, they really should build another runway as they badly need it.

  32. Kobasica23:13

    Congrats to Croatia for achieving CAT I. It won't be soon until Serbia joins as well.


    CAT I does not mean visa liberalization for Croatia. It is estimated that Croatia has at least 4-5 years before it can even think about getting visa-free access to US. And Serbia has at least double that time as well.

    I cannot find anywhere which airline will operate ZAG-JFK flights. Does anyone know?

    Svi Za NOLE!!!!

  33. @ Jeebusman

    1. Lot of people from Banja Luka and Bosanska Krajina region use ZAG airport. Of course those living in Podrinje and Semberija will use BEG, but you must admit it's not very wise to travel to BEG from Bihac, Cazin, Prijedor,B.Luka, when ZAG is two hours by car (BEG 5 to 6 hours).

    2. You say it's cheaper to fly from/to BEG. And that is correct, if you think of JU only, which is a litlle cheaper than OU, speaking in general, of course, not particular and special offers. If you take into account that LCC's: Wizz, Easyjet, Germanwings, Norwegian, Spanair, Baboo, fly, or used to fly ZAG, than definitely it's not true what you claim, and very very very cheap flights could be find from/to ZAG.

    3. Isn't it a bit contradictory that you think it would be unprofitable that a carrier from our region, with lower work power costs, and for example high capacity money-maker A330, cannot make it profitable to fly DIRECTLY between 2 points in ex-yu, and North America, and it would be profitable for an US carrier, with much higher work power costs, to operate flights from CHI and Toronto via NYC, on smaller capacity B757/767, especially, with additional Shannon technical landing, as being announced?

    4. And you definitely cannot say so what if HR gets FAA IASA cat 1. I suppose you are not very familiar with the aviation and you have no idea how much hard work is necessary, and how many audits and controls performed by FAA, of both country's aviation authorities, legislative, it's implementation, and each operator registered in that country, in order to obtain cat 1. And please don't tell me it's political-just for your info, Israel, nr.1 USA's ally, is in cat2at the moment.

    5. And after all, you, Purger, and lot of people here can call me die-hard fanatic, or stupid person, or daydreamer, but I still think that's time is coming. Now at least there are no legal reasons for them not to try to start their project. And I keep my fingers crossed not only for but for similar project in Serbia, as well as cat1 for SRB to come as soon and possible. Only in that case we could be happy about mutual and increased possibilites and offers for passengers, together with lower fares, about much more services within ex-yu, and about the fact that most of the money spent for air travel is staying in our region.

  34. @ Kobasica

    Well, you really need to be something to think that somebody thinks that cat1 and US visa liberalization are the same.

    I often don't agree with Purger but if someone would "explain" something like this to me, I would consider it insulting, and Purger definitelly doesn't deserve it.

    Kobasica, man wrote, I quote : "Croatia is in CAT 1". After that he said : "Visa to USA would be cancelled till end of year". I mean, "IS", and "WOULD BE"...? And you explain it is not the same???

    Of course Purger know it's not the same, as well as it's the fact that HR is in USA's visa waiver program, and visas for HR citizens should be past soon, maybie not till end of this year, but definitely not in 5 years. And yes, that would be the moment when HR-USA traffic is going to raise, the same as it's been happening during the last year in Serbia, with EU visa liberalization and increased SRB-EU traffic.

  35. Kobasica23:54


    I am not saying that with visa liberalization there are going to be less people traveling to Croatia. Not at all. He is just assuming that by achieving CAT I, CRO will also get visa-free travel.I agree with him that no visas equals more tourists, but visa free regime is very far away. That's all I'm telling him: CAT I does not mean no visas soon. I do not see the problem with that.

    And Croatia and Serbia are nowhere close to getting visa-free access. Not even the Vatican has visa-free access yet, but it is supposed to get it in the next 2-3 years. So you tell me, is Croatia a bigger friend of USA than the Vatican???

  36. Jeebusman00:11


    1. Yes, it may be shorter by car for those living close to the northern border with Croatia. But for those in southern Bosnia and Western Bosnia, BEG is a smarter, easier, cheaper, and less-time consuming choice. But you are correct, those living close to the northern border should use ZAG. However, there are many Serbs living on near that border, and nationalism is still high in that part of the region. And once Banja Luka- BEG flights recommence, BEG will benefit even more from those pax.

    2. Please od not put words in my mouth, I did not say that ZAG does not have cheap flights. I just said that BEG is cheaper. Big difference. And Wizz is canceling its ZAG flights mainly because of EasyJet and its focus on BEG as a new hub. Plus Wizz will surely commence flights to Bosnia as well, keeping competition with JAT close, and making it maybe cheaper than it is now.

    3. No. Reason why is because our carriers are in a shitload of debt. Big US carriers and some charters are not in debt or are not in so much debt like our carriers are. With regional networks, we cannot have a surplus, and you think by creating more costs, bigger planes, more maintenance, etc. our carriers can achieve profit??? Absolutely not. Only if Americans become smarter and stop thinking that war is still going on in Croatia and Serbia lol.

    4. I was only referring to someone else's blog about how this is excellent for Croatian carriers to start flights. Of course CAT I is a big deal as you said, but in terms of Croatian carriers launching routes, not as much. And Israel is not USA's no. 1 ally...I think the critical approach of USA against Israel during the Gaza battles proved that. But let's not talk politics here.

    5. I do not think you are a die-hard fanatic. I even had hopes that JAT would start the flights to Chicago But unfortunately, I do not think there is an incentive for our carriers to start such flights now. I would rather they focus on strengthening their regional network to each other and possibly merging together and creating an ultimate Ex-Yu carrier. Imagine Adria, Croatia, JAT, and Montenegro Airlines joining fleets together. At that point, I would think that such long-haul flights would have sense. Or when Croatia's coast becomes very famous and when Belgrade becomes known for its parties, food, and concerts.

    I must say, it is a pleasure blogging with you :)

  37. Just got info that ZAG-NYC summer charters are to be operated by North American Airlines B767.
    Not confirmed, and no more details yet, but that's for now.

    @ Jeeb,

    Still don't agree with you about 1-4, but accept your explanations.
    Concerning 5, the only difference between you and me is that you still hope that ex-yu "flag-carriers", can achieve something merging or at least co-operating, and I think that we need brand new regional carrier, with new people, new ideas, new incentive, new education, and new state of mind.

    It's been pleasure blogging with you, too, Cao!

  38. AirKoryoTU-20401:19

    What a crappy airline to have operating the flights, the thing is charters too? So much for scheduled services. Has anyone here seen the interiors of their 767-300? And yes some of their 767-300's are non-ER versions meaning the tech stop in Shannon will be a fueling stop indeed. Although they do own 4 ER versions which means they could easily see direct flights? It is possible that the services could be operated by 757-200?

    Here is a pic of their interiors

    Looks quite bad.

    Also first and last time I've seen a Ryan International aircraft was 2 years ago in Bishkek, it was oeprating a military charter to Afghanistan with tech stops in Bishkek and Shannon if I remember correctly.

  39. Anonymous01:53

    Dalmatian,hr will not start because after 5 or 6 years as they are selling fairy tales in the newpapers about their start up they haven't still ask Croatian aviation authortities for start up. There isn't any document in Croatia connecting this company with aviation industry, so this company actually doesn't exist, or maybe it exists but it IS NOT an air company. Croatian Aviation Authorities has seen this name only in newspapers, no documents, no registration only a newspapers fairy tales ...

  40. Purger02:08

    Of course CAT 1 dosen't have anything vith visa. I never mentioned nothing even close to that.

    But USA gouvernment anounce cancle of visa for Croatia till end of 2011 some 2 year ago. We don't need visa for Canada and cancle of USA visa for Croatia was anounced by USA gouvernment and our gouvernment for end of 2011.

    Trust me you have to come to ZAG airport to see statistics and you will see how many pax from Banja Luka travell via ZAG. You will be impresed.

  41. @ Pozdrav iz Rijeka,

    Forget about I too do not think this carrier will ever see the light of day but if you want to back another operator who might make a big impact on the region then look no further than Dubrovnik airlines. They are 100% owned by a big Croatian shipping company which makes hundreds of millions in profit each year. They do need to get rid of the MD-80s and get there hands on either some 320s/737s or Embraers, whatever might work for them.
    They are probably the only Ex Yu carrier theoretically in a position to obtain a large aircraft or wet/dry lease one for services to North America.

    Also, just off topic. Croatian government announced that it will invest a few hundred million euro's in projects to help stimulate the economy and of course Zagreb airport was one of those projects.

    'A public tender for a concessionary of the Zagreb airport is expected to be called by February. The government estimates the value of that project to be 203 million Euros, the daily Jutarnji List writes.'

    Could it be election year in Croatia? :)

  42. Aleks Nikolic USA03:17

    Dubrovnik Airlines cannot get international planes? haha if JAT or Croatia Airlines can barely do it, then for SURE Dubrovnik can't. To get international flights the airline needs stronggggg connection around the region. This is why JAT is increasing frequencies and introducing new destinations, so it could get a better hold on the region, get more passengers to/ from Belgrade and know more about it, so when time comes for international flights, everything is in place :)

  43. It is positive news that Croatia received Category I certification from the United States. Moreover, the result may be beneficial for OU, as the company can presumably demand reciprocity from its Star Alliance partners. In particular OU may want to make arrangements with western carriers to allow them the right to sell select seats on specific transatlantic flights. As an example OU operates ZAG-FRA; LH operates FRA-JFK; OU code-shares on the FRA-JFK flight, with LH operating the flight. Perhaps the CATI rating has no bearing on the above example as the LH/OU flight to JFK is a plane registered in Germany. Ultimately the end result makes no difference to passengers to and from ZAG.

    Regarding news of transatlantic service to Belgrade, this is good news but by no means fantastic. 5G operated charters from YYZ a few years ago, and HY had a regular service between JFK, BEG and Tashkent. For the record, 5G is not bankrupt. To remain factual, Ryan International Airlines received the appropriate approvals from Serbia, however, the route is not yet guaranteed. A travel agency will likely sell the tickets, while Ryan International Airlines will be the operator. The charters will target the market in the Chicago and Toronto area, respectively. Though the Toronto flights are planned from YYZ, it will not attract passengers from other Canadian cities as passengers would be required to purchase tickets separately (a missed, changed or canceled connection would be at the expense of the traveler to make alternate arrangements).

    The bottom-line is that OU and JU would need to be brave and lease wide-body aircraft and start flying to North America to stop feeding carriers from Western Europe. Transatlantic demand for BEG and ZAG is certainly significant enough to justify regularly scheduled operation, perhaps if they collaborated. JU came close with resumption of flights to YYZ when it still operated the DC-10; had it not been for political obstacles JU could have been making a dramatic come-back to other foreign markets. Keep in mind that JU operated direct flight to PEK at the time as well. Without a doubt the DC-10 would have been replaced with a newer plane, or perhaps two, and revenue would have been significant. Unfortunately it did not work out.

    Today neither OU nor JU are in the capacity to purchase or lease wide-body aircraft given their financial state, moreover, neither government seem to have an appetite for risky investments. The IMF is there to regulate where the money goes for both countries after all.

    As a regional Star Alliance member, OU will be muscled by its "partners" to maintain its existing feeder position.

    JU is not part of an alliance and may be in a better position for long-haul operation. This situation would give JU freedom to seek partnerships and code-share agreements with any airline in North America. One sensational proposition would be cooperation between JU and WestJet Airlines, in Canada. Nevertheless, the constraints stated earlier in my post will be enough for JU to simply continue dreaming.

  44. Small correction: 5G is bankrupt. Typing error.

  45. AirKoryoTU-20404:52

    Does anyone know why HY ceased using BEG as a stop to JFK? I would have thought it would have helped fill the 763ER from TAS which now stops in Riga. I flew from TAS to JFK in 2004 when the flights did stop off in Belgrade, the stop from at BEG from TAS saw around 70-80 pax get on and around 50 got off from JFK.

  46. Peter from Sydney08:11

    Chicago Rockford International Airport is in the middle of nowhere! Who the hell is going to fly from there? From Wikipedia, 'the airport served over 215,000 passengers in 2007', that's absolutely pathetic!

  47. CroMagnum08:13


    I believe that there are definitely those that do use ZAG, but once there is a Banja Luka-BEG route...I'm not so sure. Plus there is also a significant Bosnian (this includes Serbs and Croats as well) diaspora in Chicago, which will also invoke interest in BEG. I'm sure that the numbers are impressive now, but if BEG launches flights to Banja Luka...or if Air Srpska gets finally created, then we will see.


    In regards to your first blog, I am not thrilled to see such a carrier such as Ryan operate these flights. However, I do appreciate that such flights exist. And do not forget that if these flights become profitable, they will surely be noticed by the more respectable airlines such as Continental, United, American, etc. So I am glad that these flights have restarted, but it could have been better. It surely is better than JAT lol ;)

    For your second blog, I have been asking that myself. I believe they just lost interest. Or the flights were unprofitable. But it most likely was that BEG increased its costs for such flights, and that pushed them away.


    I pretty much agree with you 100% :)

    In regards to the ZAG-JFK flights:

    What is going on? People said that the airline was to be announced today but nothing happened. People are saying its US Airways, United Airlines, Continental, etc. I mean, I am beginning to think that this was a bluff. They announce flights to JFK some months ago. They do not reveal who the carrier is for whatever reason. And then during a press conference regarding Croatian and American aviation, nothing gets mentioned. I honestly believe that these flights are fabricated. Unfortunately, but unless proven otherwise, I cannot believe that such flights will occur.

  48. CroMagnum08:14

    And I forgot to mention...

    GO NOVAK!!!!!

    Greetings from Pula.

  49. JATBEGMEL10:19

    If both routes are 1 p/w then thats pathetic. Chicago could easily (ofcourse with proper maketing) 3 p/w and YYZ 2 p/w. Is it possible for JAT to wet lease the aircraft, with US registration, and do the flights. Doesnt the FAA CAT II mean that aircraft registered in that country can not commence flights or does that apply to the airlines as well? I dont see why the flights couldnt operate from ORD, i mean, Ryan doesnt have a base in YYZ and theyre operating the YYZ-BEG route. To top things off, the Shanon stop to me is stupid considering the B763 has the range to fly nonstop!

  50. Anonymous11:52

    Flights are stopping off in SNN because the 767-300's were ex-Delta Airlines domestic aircraft and do not have ETOPS capabilities.

  51. AirKoryoTU-20414:58

    I've spoken to a few HY staff today and they informed me that the route was originally operated via Birmingham in the U.K and later changed from 2003>2004 to Belgrade replacing the Birmingham stop. The reason for BEG is that they signed some kind of agrenment with JAT Airways to operate BEG-JFK-BEG services in-coperation I'm not 100% sure if they were codesharing on the route or not, but the flights were indeed partly due to an agreenment with Jat Airways. The reason for dropping the stop was not due to a drop in passengers but because JAT Airways withdrew from its agreenment and HY lost its rights on the route and pulled out with flights operating via Riga now, mainly due to the fact JAT wanted to start flying to KJFK itself with some 767's at the time that is the reason Uzbekistan Airways pulled out. Although it may have been for the better as Riga seems to draw almost all its alocated seating off Riga - New York - Riga sectors.

  52. Anonymous15:16


  53. Purger23:51

    Banja Luka - Beograd flight by Jat stop because there was 4-7 pax per each flight. Even subvention by Republic od Srpska did not make those numbers better.

    FAA CAT is cartification of the airline. Registration of the plane have nothing with that. So Jat can not fly to USA or have code-share if there will be no change from cat 1 to cat 2.


    If it is anyone, it will initially be North American Airlines.

  55. Anonymous17:36

    Let me answer your concerns.
    1. Sannon technical stop was used as alternative in order to allow RYAN enough room if it needs to cut schedule in winter. With few answers below it will make it clear that they started all of this with year round basis in their mind.
    2. Ryan applied with 4 aircrafts and all of them are B767-300ER. All aircrafts are capable of reaching its distance with 12C/238Y config they have with full payload.

    3. By my latest informations both RYAN and NAA could cancel ORD-ZAG and NYC-ZAG flights as latest IATA pax numbers on routes with those O&D show that those routes would end up same way as YYZ-ZAG route operated by Skyservice which had 40-50% PLF and additionaly helped Skyservice go out of business. Belgrade flights with same company had PLF over 81%. YYZ-BEG flights were canceled due to two major things, first,influence former employee of Skyservice had (originaly from Croatia) who hated the fact Skyservice is flying to BEG at all, and second, stupid hooligans in Serbia burned American, Canadian embassy same year. Well, yes you still have people more thinking about politics than business.

    4. Category 1 will not that much influence Croatian scheduled airlines. Maybe only charters. I do not know where is a big fuss regarding code share flights when OU had good baggage and ticketing agreements with almost all flag carriers until now. No change for pax in that field.

    5. United flying from US to ZAG is just a wishful thinking. No routes that need help and subsidy from governments in order to survive will EVER be operated by Big Boys. Only if OU finds loans and lease a/c that could fly those but than again it would need pax numbers.

    6. It seems that Croatia has great potential for summer , but for year round not that much. I talked to my friend from NYC he used to organize this kind of operations in past and he said biggest problem was sales. There was just not enough sales in order to support such a big investment.
    7. This year ticket prices from US to SJJ were lot cheaper with LH/JU than LH/OU and that is the only reason OU had 8% less pax. Majority of Bosnians which are youngest immigrants in US and by default fly more to their home than others, went trough BEG due to price difference.
    8.RYAN has base in RFD but it will fly from ORD! THOSE TWO ARE 70 miles away from each other. Tickets ORD-BEG and ORD-ZAG should not be cheap as capacity that they are flying with is less than needed. Would you sell your main advantage for cheap or for as much as you could get?

  56. Jeebusman18:51


    I pretty much agree with you on everything. But If I were Ryan, I would make a stop @ New York not Shannon. The Serbian diaspora is also very big there, in addition to other Ex-Yu diaspora as well. If there was a ORD-JFK-BEG route, I think we can agree that they would pretty much be full given the ticket prices are not very expensive.

    And I have not heard any information on the carrier operating ZAG-JFK flights. Are they actually taking place?

  57. CroMagnum18:56

    I must admit, that I am beginning to worry that Jeebs is right. No carrier has come forth and said they will start flights. Neither North American, Continental, United, US Airways, nor even Ryan. What is this really was a joke made to attract investment to Zagreb Airport? I think we have to start considering the possibility that Zagreb-New York flights will not exist.

  58. Anonymous18:59

    In the Croatian and Serbian media, they say that there is a carrier willing to operate flights, but they are guessing as to which one. Doesn't that seem a bit odd? They KNOW that a carrier is interested but not even they know which one. I mean is that carrier really embarrassed to start these flights and just doesn't wanna come out and announce it? Or is there no carrier at all that wants these flights to happen? Either way, it looks like BEG will be the only one getting intercontinental traffic this year...

    GO NOVAK!!! -from Macedonia

  59. Anonymous21:24


    Do you know where I can book the flight from Chicago to Belgrade? I know another ten people that are interested...

    So from what I understand is that Ryan plans on keeping their service to Belgrade in winter as well and that the flights are going to be operated from ORD?

    Thanks mate

  60. Anonymous22:20

    The tech stop would only be a possibility coming back from BEG to ORD and only necessary based on max weights and strong winds.

  61. JU50001:11

    It should definitely be ORD instead of RFD! There r much more connections with connecting pax! RFD would be insane :)
    Go Novak, go! :D

  62. Anonymous03:12

    As I heard starting price on ORD-BEG flights will be from 950$ and up. I would never sell those tickets that low if somebody would ask me, unfortunatly thats not the case. It is not worth for airline to operate 10-11 hours flights for that price. Maybe governments are putting some money there as I do not see it anyway around. But what I heard as information that is confirmed, Sannon will not be operated and was used just in case that fuel stop would be needed. So I can tell you with 100% accuracy that Sannon will not be used at all. ORD-BEG and ORD-ZAG will be Non-stop flights. There is only one problem regarding ORD-ZAG, there is low number of pax originating Croatia and airline is thinking on giving up on it. They think there is low interest in croatia. I do not know about North American Airlines initiative. But I heard that Croatia Travel from NYC was trying to get that done two times by now, and both times they failed to deliver deposits to airlines and failed due to low sales. So all we can do is wait and see.

  63. Anonymous03:23

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  64. Anonymous03:24

    @ORDBEG101 where did u hear that news? Anyway if it's that price. it's won't be worth for me......i live in vancouver and to fly from YVR to Zagreb in the summer it's $1400 with would be good if they had a codeshare with a airline so it could go faster i just have one stop over in Chicago. The flight i saw had 2 stops one in Montreal and then in Frankfurt...If it was New York that would be a good stop over i would like to see new york again!

    January 30, 2011 3:23 AM

  65. Anonymous04:15

    @ anonymous
    I dont think you can book flights yet. I heard we will get prices from Ryan by 15 Feb. And I cant wait to see them as everything else is just stories, when I see the prices I will be able to tell you exactly if this is gonna be success.
    @AirKoryo and Sam
    How many miles you have on all your "premier accounts" on all alliance partners?
    Both of you are great experts so I would like to know how many hours do you have on right or left seat or even in cabin?

    Pictures shown, are supposed pictures of b763-332 aircraft, former DL until 2007. Look at the picture again and tell me which model of aircraft is that one? Also Ryan as I previously mentioned Ryan applied with 4 B763ER not 332. Also on the picture check how the passengers is seated in the seat on left isle seat? Do you see she has her legs crossed? THAT MEANS THAT SHE HAS FREAKING LEG ROOM!!! FINALY 9-10 hour flight and you do not get out of the aircraft "walk like an egyptian" style. Yes I find that very disturbing, Delta operated aircraft previously, with good leg room, excelent condition and very clean, straight to my home non-stop...very disturbing indeed. Man if half of scheduled airlines had their aircrafts in this condition. DO you know why scheduled airlines have IFE in seats? They need you to forget that someone is seating on your forehead.

    you should read regulation about public charters in US. Ryan has to abide those. There you will see that if flight is canceled you are able to seek protection on other companies, also you would not need to wait for a week as flights are twice a week.

    @ all others

    Info that I checked with RIA pilots and that is confirmed.

    ORD(not rfd)-BEG
    ORD-ZAG (could be changed to EWR-BEG due to low interest of Croatian pax)
    SEAT PITCH ECONOMY: 33" (standard economy is 30-31" on flag carriers)
    SEAT PITCH PREMIUM ECONOMY: 58" (actually business class seat but will be available as premium economy as they heard)

    That is all I know by now, I will try to post more when I know more.
    It is not easy to find out as Ryan is keeping everything very confidential which meens it is serious operation or long term and probably too much money involved to fuck around and ruin it with mistakes. And as I said previously and what I know for sure.
    No one applies with 4 aircrafts if they plan only charters and short term.
    No one keeps everything confidential like this if it is small shitty charter.
    No one plans their flights this carefull with pitch,flight schedule,routes,etc addopted to particular market if they are planning 3-4 months once a week flying.
    Logistics done by Ryan every day since in Rockford as preparation is not done if someone did not pay for that already.
    Trust me, I had contacts with ad-hoc charters before, this is not how they are done, they are done with much less details...

  66. AirKoryoTU-20404:30

    The picture is of a former DL 763 correct? Yoy brag about these interiors you make me laugh!! Delta opeates their 767-300 and -400ER aircraft with IFE right so why would you say airlines sacrifice weight and room for IFE if it only to distract passengers! Come on be serious Ryan is a crappy carrier Belgrade needs and if Ivsay deserves a decent carrier i.e. DELTA or any other main strean US carrier. Simple.

  67. Anonymous04:31

    I really do not think that Ryan would sign any codeshare or any other kind of interline agreements until they see real capacity of routes they will operate. Also for serious interline arrangements I think it would take daily flying to work... twice a week is not viable for that, I think. As I said I am working to find out more. It was previously much easier but not anymore. Will let you know what I find out. Until then I know that complete project is called Air Plus and they started small survey on

  68. @ORDBEG101
    if all u said is true, then u r my god! :)
    wow 2 weekly ORD-BEG, 33" pitch, amazing! :)

  69. btw - will YYZ-BEG be 2 weekly or..?
    fingers crossed for EWR too! :D
    plus all year service...just woooow! :D

  70. Anonymous04:52

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  71. Anonymous05:02


    This a/c was Delta's aircraft until 3 years ago... Do you see in seat IFE? Config of DL aircrafts on TransAT flights is one with First and Business seats in mind...Flag carriers do not care about Y seats and they can have ife in seat as J and C seating compensate the weight. I would like to enter into discussion about technical stuff with you if you want to learn about route planning involvement into seat configuration. Well if Ryan is crappy carrier and Belgrade such a good destination per your opinion what was the reason all major carriers avoided it for 20 years? In charter biz, Ryan is respected, well funded, and well operated airline. They are having 777-200ER delivered to them on april... Crappy? First, this is what I do not like and this is the reason why I will not continue discussion with you. Did you ever fly on board of any of Ryan's aircraft? I assume no. Did you ever work for Ryan or operated with Ryan? I assume no. Yet, you still are judging airline with constant increase in fleet, revenue and profits...
    So, Ryan = crappy airline?
    Maybe. But still too good for you as pax, my friend.
    This is greatest thing that happened in Balkan aviation in last 20 years.We should look at it as something that can help, JU,OU,JP,BH start making at least some profits and revitalize a little bit... So if seats could have been better? Answer is YES! But first prove to the airline that you deserve better seat, buy the tickets and show them interest is there and you will get a better seat.

    I asked you do you think this picture is of RIA B767-332?


    First, I like the nickname. Reminds me on YU-AMB.
    Yes, what I heard is that they are planning to go twice a week from ORD-BEG. YYZ-BEG I think was once a week. There was much smaller number of pax from YYZ than people think. In 2004,05,06 number of pax on YYZ-BEG charter was only around 4500 and with 215 config... That is too low to support more flights with 250 seats.
    I am sure that ORD-BEG is only sure thing. All of the other routes, with info from IATA and with info about JU load factors on those routes, show that we, people from Balkans, are much smaller traffic-wise than we think.

  72. Anonymous06:49


    Thanks a lot for your information! Finally something concrete and positive.
    Could you tell me what one can expect while flying on Ryan to the US? Do they have tvs, what kind of service will they provide...

    Thanks once again man!

  73. Anonymous09:46

    @ anonymous
    Well it is nothing that I did. It is just that I tried to find out if this was another hoax or real deal. About Ryan...HM...
    There are few fascinating things about Ryan, they are all proud about their company except pilots, pilots are proud only about them selfs of course. But they are stable charter company. They have a lot of bussines from Military and Immigration. Never filed for Chapter 11 VERY IMPORTANT! They were used by Airtran Airways one of regiional carrier in US that was purchased by Southwest. They were operating a320 for Airtran for two years. They are well organized and have a lot of highly experienced higher menagement directors. Old school that does not much care about website apperance but rather about their aircraft condition and OTP. Operation wise very solid. Now their IFE systems depend on which aircraft but majority of B767 have few screens and then they have little bit improved IFE in business. But they are known to be charter airline that keeps their B767-300ER with 250 seats only while all other fly with config of up to 300... As I said, we cannot expect their aircraft to compare with EK but for charter company they are more than good. They have really good maintenance . Some of the aircrafts are owned and some of them are leased. Well basicaly that is everything that you could've read on your own but I just repeated it. About this project we will probably have to wait and constantly check on and find out about prices as that is what we all want to know most. When it comes to what we can expect from Ryan on this oepration well my answer is:
    RELIABILITY (they are proud of it)
    DECENT CABIN CREW ( usually cabin crews in charter airlines are much more customer oriented that scheduled airlines,as they have to keep their job)
    CHARTER LIKE ENTERNTAIMENT (but who needs it when you can actualy sleep in your seat! :) )
    NO FUCKING FRA, NO FUCKING LHR NO FUCKING CDG which means hours of waiting, transfering and flying less!!!
    Sorry but I had to point how I look at this.
    For me just a fact that I will be able to fly home like a person and not cattle is the most important. And cant wait to purchase premium economy for flight just to be able, for once afford bussines fucking class seat.... hahaha American dream. comming true :)
    I checked prices on LH, UA and LX for summer season on ORD-BEG, and with one stop they cost from 1352$ with taxes included and up!
    If this flights range from 950$ - 1300$ they will get my business that is for sure! At the end, Serbs and Croats will have to put their money where their mouth is and show to airlines they are worth transatlantic flights. Pure and simple. Just my observation as someone that has seen number of routes succeed and number failed. Only one that stayed... ones that made profits :)

  74. Anonymous10:07

    Thanks man, I appreciate it greatly that you took some time to answer my question.
    Last year I flew to the US on Lufthansa on board one of their 747s. Jesus Christ I thought I was going to die during that 9h30 minute flight from Frankfurt to IAD.
    Mediocre food (airline food), extremly uncomfortable seating and legroom, shitty entertainment...
    I would really be happy if Ryan launched flights to New York in addition to the ones in Chicago.

    I know that one would be happier if these flights were operated by Delta or United but I am just happy that there is an option for travellers to North America directly from home.

    I hope the succede and expand their business in the future as there is definetly a market for these flights.

    By the way, could an agency sell a flight like on Jat from Skopje and then to Chicago on Ryan? Or would that person need to check in again in Belgrade?
    I checked in once on Jat for my flight on Aegean that had absolutely no interline agreement but it was possible.

  75. Anonymous13:25

    There are no confirmed reports of ORD-ZAG or EWR-ZAG. It appears that the only route will be JFK-ZAG. And actually I like that. It ties the Ex-Yu region together. You want to go to New York, go to Zagreb. To Chicago and Toronto, go to Belgrade. I kinda like that you know...

    But Ryan is also seriously considering JFK-BEG flights too, so I don't know...

  76. @ ORDBEG101,

    Pardon my ignorance,

    But...., how do you know that there is any interest in the Belgrade flights if no tickets have been sold?

    Just curious since you state there is a possibility of the ‘thought about’ flight to Zagreb being shelved due a lack of ticket sales.

  77. Anonymous14:32

    Maybe it is just me but I would not travel to Zagreb just to catch a flight. Not because it's Croatia just because I can't be bothered.
    I would rather pay a bit more and fly out of Belgrade.
    That is why I wonder if there would be any people who would be coming from Croatia to catch a flight to Belgrade.

  78. Anonymous16:33

    You do not need to sell tickets to know the interest. IATA has stats on all tickets sold on all airlines by O&D. Also they were doing survey and by survey there is only one number that bothers them. You could do good on Eastbound travel, but the number of pax on Westbound travel is waaay to low. That is the exact reason croatian government wants to subside,and purchase 100 tickets on each flight. But it looks like those stories are bogus and that Manager of Zagreb airport will not be able to deliver. And simple calculation can show risk, lets say they twice a week as Tonci Peovic suggested, 200 X 1000$ = 200,000$ a week subsiding , plus landing and handling fees paid 16,000$ per week... 216,000$ per week for period of 1 year... that is help of over 10 Milion $ a year... We will see if Zagreb airport can deliver that in middle of budget chrisis. I do not want to talk bad about route, just about politics behind it. Do you think our politicians are able to deliver such a huge promises? And would you fly (from airlines perspective) route based on promises while you pay everything in advance from your own pocket? Trust me US carriers will not do that.

  79. Anonymous16:44

    @ anonymous
    If you are asking for my opinion regarding Serbs flying from Croatia and Croatians flying from Serbia, at this time it is not a smart move. Governments of both countries invested too much money into making devil out of each other... so it would take years of marketing and propaganda to change that. But from aviation point of view, they could do much better as one market than few separate markets. To have serious operation with transatlantic flights per my opinion you need at least 200-300K pax per year traffic. And separatly nor Serbians nor Croatians can do that on its own.

  80. Anonymous17:06

    Did Belgrade Airport offer Ryan some sort of discount for their flights? I mean it's in their own interest...

  81. Anonymous23:06

    No offense to Croatia, but it seems that the US flights are bullshit. They claimed that there was a carrier that was INTERESTED in commencing flights. Then they say that they will not give the name of the carrier for whatever reason. And then they make a big show about getting CATI and how the carrier will be announced. What happened...nothing. There are NO FLIGHTS to Croatia from USA. Unless proven otherwise. I think what might happen is codesharing between Croatia Airlines and Lufthansa to JFK, not direct flights like BEG.

    And for Croats, it might be smart and might not be to travel to BEG to go to USA. If they are looking for a cheaper and probably faster flights, they should go to BEG. But they can also go via London, Lisbon, Vienna, and other cities that are closer to NA than Serbia. So it really depends on the people. But I am sure that the smart Croats that are looking for cheap flights, will use BEG.

  82. AirKoryoTU-20423:33


    Exactly as you said, Ryan International Airlines is a good CHARTER carrier, this "carrier" can not be taken serioursly in the long haul scheduled market, it is simple as that! Trust me flying long haul on a Boeing 767-300ER with no IFE is like hell. I am used to it by now, but for trans-atlantic services, now come on! I reguarly fly Tashkent > Athens and Tashkent > Moscow which are usually operated by 767-300ER or 757-2000 with no IFE. I've flown of Delta's Airbus A330-300 to and from KJFK last May from Athens and in August to Atlanta from Athens with 767-400ER both of which have IFE and it was a pleasurable flight. Although the flights from Tashkent are a little on the opoisite side, the only thing that is a positive is our Uzbeki hospitality and food + drinks are the only things that I like about HY. Otherwise there are other options to take but this is one of the easiest and least tiring ways to get into Europe and into North America without flying via Russia or the U.K. I can gaurantee flying on Ryan IA with no IFE and an American crew would drive me insane of a flight of a duration between 9>10 hours.

    P.S this is a picture of the damn Ryan Intenrnational Airlines Boeing 767-300 reg - N120DL.



  83. Anonymous23:38

    I dont know if they did. Zagreb offered free landing and handling, and 100 tickets per flight. I seriously doubt Belgrade will offer the same...
    I have a news for you guys. Ryan decided to have one pilot set as PR manager for complete project. That means that soon we should have a person to step up as face of the company and promote the project.

  84. Anonymous00:38

    As I said, I will not discuss with you at all. I can bet you found quite a few downsides to DL flights also. You keep your Tashkent with in seat IFE, I'll keep my Belgrade and Zagreb with IFE the way it is.
    P.S. Hope they play Walter brani Sarajevo on the big screen. Man that Bata dude ROCKS!!! No wander last words of Adolf Hitler were: "Kill Bata Zivojinovic"...

  85. Jeebusman00:56


    I do not understand why are you so against these BEG flights with Ryan. If anything, people have the option to choose their flights now. I'd rather have the choice and not take it than to not have the option at all if you know what I mean. Plus, there is no stopover @ Shannon, so it is a direct route and no waits, changes, or stops. It all depends how much people are willing to give up on luxury.

    And Ex-Yu Aviation:

    The titel of this blog should be Charters to North America. It is not only summer but winter charters too.

    And I agree with Anonymous. ZAG flights are probably BS. But I hope not, it would be cool to use the two for different US flights.

  86. Anonymous01:02


    Why dont you buy portable dvd player and your problem is solved for all of those Tashkent flights? And then you have IFE on all flights right in your pocket?

  87. Purger01:31

    No one on this blog or in any media or from Zagreb airport ever said that information about JFK-ZAG flight would be presentet on press conference with CAT 1. Only information that was anonced and presented on that press conference was about CAT 1, and nothing else.

    But in same time I don't know why they do not go out with name. I presume deal is not finish and they don't wont to tell name before sighn contract.

    As I understand Ryan would fly to ZAG and to BEG + some other company would fly JFK-ZAG. If that happend ZAG is in much better position. But let's stop to calculate and wait to see what will happend and what are fair-tails.

  88. Anonymous04:59

    Good thing about code share deal of OU with UA is that as a travel agent you will be able to book FRA-ORD UA operated with OU flight number. Which will probably lower YQ surcharge a little bit. But in late 2009 UA killed UA/OU agreement by demanding from OU to collect YQ for them. Since, OU/UA contract was way behind, US/OU, US/BA, US/KL contracts. Also lets not forget that contract between OU and UA regarding code share was signed in 2007 and now CO changed a lot of politics regarding interline agreements. As a metter of fact they canceled contracts with JU,BH,RO,FB because of that and those contracts were there for 20-30 years. OU had big advantage due to Starr membership which is very good as it saved that contract. But Starr Alliance regional partners are in really bad shape now everywhere. All of them constantly losing money because of fierce competition from LCC in regional and even worse terms by Big boys in overseas market. JFK-ZAG has only one potential charter operator, that is North American Airlines. They and World Airways are owned by Global Aviation Holdings, INC. Good decent company. Based in NYC, everything else does not have sense cost-wise due to positioning and ferry flights.
    Per my knowledge, JFK-ZAG route was orchestrated by Croatia Travel from NYC few times in last few years and biggest problem was Westbound pax number. Maybe 100 tickets per flight support from ZAG airport will help. Only thing I am bothered with is WILL ZAGREB AIRPORT AND CROATIAN BOARD OF TOURISM HAVE ENOUGH STRENGHT TO DELIVER PROMISES THEY MADE?
    I hope they will as having JFK-ZAG together with ORD-BEG would be GREAT for the region.
    But just so you know, while JAT was operating routes to US ZAG was way behind in PLF than BEG and DBV. Not because of politics this and that but just because of pure demographics. Immigration in US is mostly from small towns not from Zagreb,lot of them from Dalmatia, lot of them are from Hertzegovina and "Gospa" is a huge deal in Roman Catholic world. That was simple reason why DBV had really a lot of pax in earlier periods. Remember in '87 Dubrovnik airport had 1.5 Mil pax and Zagreb had that number in '04.
    I think JFK-ZAG is not viable profit-wise at all because of few reasons. That is why it needs support from the governments.
    JFK slots and fees
    Croatian Immigration demographics in US
    Westbound travelers
    JFK slots and fees are huuuuge! Trust me I've seen them.
    Demographics of Croatian immigration in US shows that Pitsburgh, Cleveland and Chicago have bigger number of Croatian pax. If they have to go with one stop trust me they will always pick flag carriers.
    Westbound travelers are usually based on relatives, family connections, etc so if you want them you would need to transfer them where most of Croats are as previously mentioned.
    And now most important fact.
    All major flag carriers that fly to US fly to NYC. With all of them OU has contracts and most importantly JFK fares are cheap as that is market on which every carrier gives deals in order to penetrate into US. That means losses for the airline. Price of fares is just not high enough to make profits. So if someone new would start flying, it would be very stupid if it is funded by government. They would get 1 wide body route but they would kill number of pax on OU to the point where OU would be cutting routes which means less income for all. So it would be good on one side but much worse on other side. JFK-ZAG you get a lot, but ZAG-EU you lose much more. While in Serbia you do not have that pressure.Croatian aviation experts should be very careful what they are doing as all short term gains could maybe result in long term losses. This will need very very strategic thinking from them. I wish them all the best and hope they will find ways to go around this problem.

  89. Anonymous06:06


    I agree with you. You also forgot to mention that JAT still has a slot @ JFK, from its previous routes. I think keeping that slot was one of the smartest things they ever did. Ryan or another airline could use that slot for flights to BEG. Although if Ryan is starting Toronto-BEG and Chicago-BEG routes, then they will surely want JFK-BEG routes as well. Plus the Serbian Consulate in NYC is beginning to negotiate for such flights asap.

    And Ryan did not mention going to ZAG at all. I do not know who said this, but I looked up this info, and not even Croatian media have this piece of info. So as of now the only confirmed routes are Toronto-BEG and Chicago-BEG. And there are two more possibilities of JFK-ZAG and JFK-BEG.

    I think that JFK-BEG will probably come to fruition first due to Croatia's close integration with EU skies. Lufthansa and other major airliners are not happy to see a big market fall out of their hands so quickly. Luckily for Serbia, Croatia's main carrier is part of Star Alliance, which means that the major carriers will be forcing Croatia's hand on this. And by that, I mean that they will force a codeshare on routes to USA from Germany, England, Portugal, etc. while they cannot do the same for Serbian carriers cuz none are in any alliance yet.

  90. Anonymous06:10


    Ryan is not flying to ZAG. They have no mention of ZAG anywhere. I am not sure who started this rumor, but like Anonymous said, there are no Croatia-USA flights being operated by Ryan. There are confirmed reports that Croatia is seeking a direct NYC-ZAG line, but like we all know, so far its bullshit. You are probably right, and the deal is not final yet. But then why come out and say it is in the process of being finished before a deal is even signed? And even if there are Chicago-Zagreb flights, Belgrade is in the process of getting New York flights as well giving Belgrade a larger market than Zagreb. So I am not sure what you are talking about, but I hop this helps :)

  91. Anonymous06:34

    I am not an expert when it comes to the airport managment but can't Jat rent its JFK slot to Ryan?

  92. AirKoryoTU-20408:55

    @ORDBEG and some anon

    I am 100% for long haul ex- BEG the only thing is I am only for DECENT flights to acceptable destinations i.e. ORD, JFK, YYZ thats basically it, oh an operated be an actuall carrier not some charter guys with crappy a/c.

    As regards to the portable DVD player, the point of having AVOD is to be able to choose from a range of new movies, foregin films, news and music. Not bringing your own DVD's which the battery will die half way across the Atlantic! Also I do take my Android with me recently it has taken my mind of the 767-300ER and 757-200 services of Uzbekistan Airlines. Last time I flew them over the pond was via Belgrade where I actually spent a few nights! Wonderful place been there 4 times. I wish HY still operated to BEG nowdays TAS would transit through ATH for the easiest and quickest transfer.

  93. Purger12:22

    Again you are tolking about BEG potentials without real facts.

    SkyService fly YYZ-ZAG one year before YYZ-BEG + one year after they suspend YYZ-BEG. Season of YYZ-ZAG flights was much longer than YYZ-BEG in those year where the fly to bouth airports. That means they find ZAG as more potential market.

    In 1991 ZAG had:
    - Pan American 4x per week ZAG-JFK (310) with conection by JP to BEG, DBV, LJU and SPU.

    - Air Canada 3x per week ZAG-YYZ (767)

    - JAT 2x week ZAG-ORD via BEG (D10)

    - JAT 2x per week ZAG-YYZ-YMQ (D10)

    - JAT 4x per year ZAG-JFK via BEG (D10)

    In same year BEG had:
    - Air China 1x week BEG-BJS (767)

    - JAT 1x week BEG-DXB-SIN (D10)

    - JAT 2x week BEG-DXB-SIN-SYD-MEL (D10)

    - JAT 2x week BEG-ORD (D10) + direct conections to ZAG and to DBV every destination once per week

    - JAT 2x week BEG-YYZ-YMQ via ZAG (D10)

    - JAT 4x week BEG-JFK

    That means
    ZAG had 15 intercontinental flights by 3 companies
    BEG had 12 intercontinental flights by 2 companies, without any flight at all by Air Canada and Pan American.

    Even before most of flights to LAX, CLE, DTT fly from ZAG directly and from BEG with 1stop via ZAG (CLE, DTT was operated as charter by JAT's Air Yugoslavia).

    For years ZAG had ZAG-KUL with 777 2 times per weak all year. It stops because of code-share that OU and OS had with Malaysian and that code-share had to stop because OS and OU came to Star and Star did not want Malaysian.

    To ZAG you have every year lot of 747 flight to Japan and Korea. Why? Because of tourism and conection via ZAG to SPU, DBV, ZAD, PUY.

  94. frequentflyer12:57

    I believe William Shakespeare wrote an excellent play whose title sums up most of what has been written here in this post's 90+ responses:

    Much Ado About Nothing

  95. Anonymous14:46


    Your comments fits perfectly in as its just as pointless as those above (according to you)

  96. Anonymous19:23


    It is obvious that you are nationalist which I hate. So arguing with you is pointless. Nonetheless, I will say my piece:

    The fact that there are stopovers in ZAG doesn't make it an attractive destination. The destination serviced was BEG not ZAG.

    Secondly, BEG currently has more airlines using its airport than any individual Croatian airport. It is a big airport hub and it is getting bigger. These American flights are also catching the eyes of Chinese, and in some months after the intercontinental flights start, I am sure that China will also want to operate services to BEG due to increasing Chinese diaspora in SRB.

    ZAG has only 1 US destination: JFK. Which is not even confirmed yet. BEG has Chicago, Toronto, and also possibly JFK as well. There are also rumors going around that Aeroflot wants to buy JAT and transform it as a hub for the Balkan region and buy new planes, strength n the competition and market there, and start new flights.

    Serbia is a better business potential than Croatia. Why? Croatia is pretty much already developed, it will not develop that much more. Serbia is UNDERDEVELOPED so much. It is predicted to boom economically within the next 10-20 years and investments are increasing. The airports will reflect on this as well.

    So I have said what I needed to say, an I please ask you to stop including stupid, disgusting, worthless, nationalistic comments that have little to do with aviation (ie: Zagreb/Croatia is better than Belgrade/Serbia, etc.). Thank you.

  97. Anonymous19:39

    I wonder if this blog will hit 100 comments. I'm sure that will make it the most commented blog ever. That's the power of Belgrade hahaha!!!

  98. Here is a strange news :)
    Balkan Airways made by Turkish Airlines :)

    p.s. I cant wait to hear more news from ORDBEG101 :D :D :D

  99. btw-what happened with this site?

    They were supposed to commence these flights, didnt they? The website is closed a week ago...

  100. Purger20:53

    Anonymous I really don't know where you find that I am nationalist. On this blog there was at least 300 post where blogers wright about BEG potentials over ZAG. Even in this topic yoh have some 20-30 of tham. I just wont to put facts infront of emotions. And than I am nationalis. Bravo!

    Croatian minister of foreign affairs is in USA where he will sighn open-sky agreement with USA which will open posibility for direct flights between Croatia and USA (todays Dnevnik).

  101. Anonymous22:06

    First of all...Congrats to his blog for hitting the 100 marker!!!!

    Second, you are not using facts at all. You are using your pro-Croatian voice to promote ZAG over BEG.

    And for your information, I did not write any blogs promoting BEG or ZAG, I am not one of those anonymouses that do. However, I must compliment you for writing down one fact and that is the meeting between US and Croatia officials. But this again, does not mean direct flights...just the possibility. And most likely what will happen is that Croatia Airlines will codeshare flights with Lufthansa and other Star Alliance partners from flights to USA from Germany and UK. But again, that is just my opinion.

    But a fact is that Serbia managed to negotiate with an airline that is under management of the US Gov. They did it before Croatia, the airline immediately acknowledged this fact, while in Croatia a "mysterious, unknown" airline claimed to have done the same for the past 4 months and refuses to give its name for whatever reason.

    And even if JAL commenced flights to Zagreb, its not set-in-stone. They are not going to do it for a very long time, just as long as demand is high. And the problem with Croatia is that it is not attracting visitors to come BACK. It is an attractive destination that is booming because it is being discovered, but if you look at statistics that show the amount of people coming back, it's a measly 32% and falling. So do not expect this trend to continue for the next 20 years, Purger.

  102. Anonymous22:11

    I also forgot to mention two other things:

    JAT has a slot @ JFK (not sure about Toronto or Chicago but maybe there too) which they will surely try to use for flights by lending it to some other carrier. Croatia does not.

    Flights to from USA to Belgrade will be winter and summer. For USA-Zagreb, they will be summer only.

  103. Purger23:27

    Croatia airlines will not have intercontinental flights in nother 5-10 years. That is writhen in document on strategy of Croatia Airlines. But, that doesn't mean that United or US Airways will not do that. Or even Lufthansa (Austrian, Swiss) espetialy whan Croatia enter European Union in 2012.

    JAL flay to Croatia for 3 years now. It wll fly next year for sure, and Korean also. Yes, Croatia is not destination where tourist come again, but which one is in todays tourist business. Modern tourist like to change destinations, like to trawell on diferent countries. I personaly trawell aroun globe at least 2 times now. But I was never in same place 2 times (exempt London and Paris). That is trand in tourism, and by that trend some other tourist with same trend will come to Croatia.

  104. AirKoryoTU-20400:46

    Japan Airlines flights to Croatia? hahahah don't make me laugh! What is with all these people and thinking that a friggin charter flight that operates 4 or 5 times a year is a damn service! These a CHARTERS get it straight, no one will be getting flights from JAL to any airport in the Balkans for the next 100 years. The last JAL destination from the Balkans was to Athens in the 90s. End it!

    Maybe Croatia Airlines can purches a 777-200LR to fly Zagreb - Tokyo non-stop and while your at it why not start flights to Antarctica.

  105. Anonymous01:12

    Well guys as I said since start. I will not enter ZAG VS. BEG discussion.
    I am working on getting interior pictures of RIA aircrafts that will fly to Serbia and Croatia, that is what the point of this forum and its subject should be, not who has bigger dick while in cold water. Point is simple all of you can talk as much as you want but flights to ZAG and BEG will be determined by sales. So if you think your town is better go and purchase the ticket. Money talks bullshit walks.


    Turkish and JU?
    That will be fun to watch...
    Here is my best case scenario in next 2 years.

    TK takes JU with big promises, transfers JU slots to TK in FRA,LHR,AMS,BRU,FCO,DUS,CDG and has morning flights to all capitals of EU.
    After they transfer them, gives statement that JU is unable to be profitable company and closes the shop while going in default on all promises left. At that point Star opens markets with MILLIONS of clients in muslim countries with huge numbers of pax and morning connections for further travel. Example: IRAN.
    They get all of them on Miles and more and that is the point :)
    Remember Muslims can be reached best way trough TK. That is the interest of Star.

  106. AirKoryoTU-20401:39


    First part could be true, but the second part to me makes ZERO sense, could you explain it again?

  107. Purger01:57

    Air Koryo:
    There were some 10-11 flights to Croatian destinations from Japan and Korea with some 450 pax in 744. That is aproximatly 5.000 pax oneway.

    Now tell me how many pax will be on route ORD-BEG with one flight per week with 763?

    And tell me what is the diferents? Bouth are charters. Ryan will not fly regular flights with conections. If any company open route to Zagreb from USA, at least 50% of pax would be tourists too (as in JAL). And that is why I point that ZAG have potential!

  108. Anonymous05:25


    One simple small correction.
    OU has Code share flights with LH,KL,AF already. So this Category 1 situation in my opinion does not change anything. But you are right. "partners" will keep them on regional level at all cost.

    @all others

    We should not underestimate RFD as option for flights to Europe. That is third cargo airport in US. Second largest UPS base in the world. Now as a standalone POINT-TO-POINT destination you guys are right. Not that good. Who ever said RFD is in the middle of nowhere should know that official name of RFD is Chicago Rockford International Airport. It is 1 hour drive from ORD and MKE. It is alternative airport during blizzards and storms for Chicago Area. Catchment area is 11.5 Mil within 2 hours driving. So maybe not good point to point airport but a great option as Network airport. It has LAS,MCO,TPA,PHX flights, surrounding area is full of Balkan immigrants, and what is most fascinating 23 minutes unload time!!! So yes, it had 250K pax in 2009, but 6 years ago it had 0 PAX! That means that government and airport are working hard on developing pax service. Which means they are lowering costs for the airlines,waiving fees etc etc. Here is the fact with which I would support my statement
    Milan/Bergamo Orio al Serio Airport
    1998 1.3 Mil pax a year
    2009 7 Mil pax a year

    1991 372.000 pax a year
    2010 19.7 Mil pax per year

    So these prove that if some government and some airport want to become bigger and have knowledge and money to do it they will.
    I would not define RFD as bad move at all if LCC model would be supported by airport itself. It is proven as a success and there is space for LCC in US as many of them disapeared due to economic turmoil.
    I could bet that with right amount of investement RFD-BEG and RFD-ZAG could be huge success in fare price...
    Would you drive 1 hour for 200$ less?
    Or even better would you sit on the shuttle for 200$ less, have two three times less hustle with TSA,Customs etc? I would.

  109. Jeebusman06:37


    Please shut the fuck up. No one is saying Zagreb does not have potential. That is not the point. The point is that yes Zagreb and Belgrade are competing, and they would do much better if they somehow stopped "measuring their dicks" like ORDBEG said, and find compromise. This is why shit never gets done in Ex-Yu because of people like you that have this mentality that they are better than others. If you ask me, Croatia and Serbia would be better off if they made up and stopped harming one another constantly. The same goes for the airports and carriers.
    And the fact is that JAL and Korea flights are still unconfirmed, nor are they even posted as routes on their respective sites. And Belgrade has confirmed flights to two US destinations, while Zagreb is stalling on one. So please stop harassing everyone here.


    Why do you think that Turkish will transfer JAT's slots to its own, and then let the company default? That is a relatively large investment made (even if it is JAT) and one not worth making just over a couple of slots. Besides, I am sure that if the gov is at least somewhat intelligent, they will take measures not to allow this to happen. JAT has very few things going for it and I am not sure they can afford to take that risk. I personally do not trust Turkish, as 1) (no offense) they are Turks and have a history of having an eye on Serbia and its goods for a while now 2) B&H got excited about Turkish's investment and they only got 2 planes, with little new routes. However, they are rising in terms of standards and are very profitable (and they were barely heard of some 30 years ago), so I give them credit for that, but nonetheless, I do not trust them. But let me ask you a question: would you prefer Turkish or Aeroflot?

  110. Anonymous08:48


    Dude seriously? You are right that we can not compare Belgrade and Zagreb. Zagreb will have connections to Japan and Korea where as Belgrade will have a far more modern terminal. Simple as that, some have what others lack.
    On the other hand, I believe that both Belgrade and Zagreb have a chance at success just at this point Belgrade is using their more wisely.
    To be honnest I would have prefered if my country was getting links to the US rahter than to Asia as simply the ties to the US are greater and they have much greater chances at success.

    Summer is just round the corner so we will see how things go from there.

    Just to mention your comment about the open skies, it doesn't matter that the US and Croatia are going to have them. Bosnia has open skies with Malaysia but I do not see Kuala Lumpur-Sarajevo anywhere.

    As for your comment that US Airways or United might launch flights to Zagreb, that is a bigger fairytale than Jats fleet renewal.
    Are you telling me that US Airways or United would rather launch their flights to Zagreb (a star alliance hub) than to Warsaw or even Copenhagen?? Both Lot and SAS can provide much more than OU could ever.

    That is why I am not complaining about Ryan's flights. Of course that I would have prefered to have United, Delta or even the ghettolicious US Airways fly the route but I also understand that belgrade is so far behind other European cities that we can not expect wonders.
    Any link to North America is welcome. In addition to all that I would have Ryan Intl operate these flights any day than some Mujahedin airline from Central Asia!

  111. Anonymous09:12

    TK is not gonna purchase JU with its money. Big boys do not merge an airline that way. Serbian geovernment is so obssesed with selling out JU that it is only a metter of which politican gets which mill not what is the best for the company. TK will get so much subsiding from the government that those slots I am talking about will cost them Zilch! Whole deal will be worth 50-60 Mil on paper but in reality TK will pay tops 1-2 mill of their own money and everything else will come from Serbia's banks, government loans, etc etc. This was done hundreds of times in history and that is how take out of an airline is done. Well actually lets wait and see. That is subject for another forum update...

    But I have good news! I was able to get some pics of actual Ryan b767-300ER that was reported on Serbian CAA aplication. Note that all C seats have personal tablet pc's or dvd players (pax choice) :) nice charter perk...
    actually sorry AirKyrio I know these suck and this a/c is worthless piece of shit, and it will probably have winglets upside down, and it will go in reverse with tail on top of the nose. I expect those comments from you so who gives a damn. But dude these are the actual ones of the aircraft flying... and the one you were showing actually did not have Ryan interior nor was it 767...even though text said that...just a simple mistake...

  112. AirKoryoTU-20413:38

    How in the heck is comparing the Ryan Airlines flights to Belgrade even relevant to my opinion of the JL,KE charters to Croatia? They are both the damn same but at least US flights to Serbia have some potential market to serve, not purley based on tourisim.


    Firstly learn to read, its AirKoryo
    not Kiryo, I wouldn't accpet you to know what a scheduled carrier is so what the hell. Firstly the photo of that cabin interior is much better than the one I provided, seems similar to the Uzbeki interiors and to Qantas 767 interior only diffrent fabric.

    As for your comments on the 767-300 inteior photo I posted, firstly it is the interior of EX-DELTA ok, that is why it differs to your photo, the aircraft is older than the on you have shown, secondly if it ISNT a 767-300 what the HELL IS IT???? 2X3X2 interior of a Ryan Airlines International aircraft? What could it be? Maybe a CRJ200 hmmm. You must have limited knowlage in regards to aircraft and the specifications of such aircraft in general, for one you can not pick the iteriors of aircraft by looking at a photo and by the photo providing a damn aircraft type too! You can tell by looking at the overhead bins and by looking at the overall seating config. Go do some research before you make such STUPID comments.

    Finaly I don't understand why you are so protective of these "CHARTER" flights? Why? I mean wouldn't you prefer a damn scheduled flight with a main stream carrier from ORD rather than ROCKFORD?

    Just my 2c worth.

  113. Jeebusman16:21


    "ghettolicious US Airways"

    Internet high-five!


    I hope you are wrong...


    I'm sure that every person would love to see Continental, United, US Airways, and other airlines start these routes. But it is very unlikely. First, they need to know how profitable these routes can be. I think that if they are ever going to fly to Ex-Yu, they are gonna first see how the charters are doing. If they have a good load factor and are making money, they might consider the flights. In Croatia's case this is even more unlikely because it's main carrier is part of Star Alliance and Croatia is pretty much in Lufthansa's hands. Lufthansa does not want to lose pax going through Germany to USA from Croatia, and they will do whatever they can to stop the direct air links to Zagreb. In Belgrade's case, it is much more free market, and Lufthansa does not have the kind of influence it has on Croatia, so it has more space to do what it wants, but still very unlikely until we see how the charters do.

  114. Anonymous16:45


    Yes you are completly right. You are zen master! I just dont understand why are you on this blog?
    But never the less you are great you are a God and everything you write is pure knowledge. Except that all the info you wrote ends up not quite right...

  115. Purger22:25

    @ Jeebusman
    "Please shut the fuck up".

    Sorry I will not be part of blog where someone can use this kind of lenguage. I have reputation in air business but even if I don't have it I have parent breeding. Bonton and culture in comunication is something that you get from your home or you can learn later if you did not get it from your parents.

    Here most of blogers wright that BEG is superior, that it is Balkan metropolis, that is have potential over all others. That is not the fact. But you simply don't wont to see data.

    Croatia have 100% more pasangers than Serbia. But ih have 9 airports and Serbia just 2. So most of pasangers go through BEG. But that does not mean that ZAG does not have transit passangers and potential. What more ZAG have almost non chartes, and BEG have a lot of them. I presume that regular pax and transit pax (so pax exempt charters) are the same in ZAG and BEG. By that fact those two airports have same potentials.

    I just can not understant that I did not react on number of BEG "superiority" wrighting and than I am nationalist whan I just demant those theory with facts.

  116. Guys, seriously!?

  117. Anonymous00:46

    Again it ends up with BEG-ZAG fight...
    Not worth posting here anymore.

  118. AirKoryoTU-20402:48


    True, although charters and scheduled flights draw diffrent pax right?


    Why are you such an idiot?

  119. Jeebusman04:28


    I will not discuss this with you. It infuriates me that you are posting political commentary on this blog when we are trying to discuss air travel. Like ORDBEG said, it may not even be worth posting here.

    As for my language, it is necessary when someone or something annoys you to a certain point like you did. I do not hate you nor do I despise you, but I must say, your comments can be quite infuriating.

    Just because Zagreb is already developed does not mean it has less potential. Belgrade is underdeveloped as a city and is still ahead of Zagreb, and under Athens, Budapest, and Bucharest, in terms of metropolis and influence in the Balkans. AND IT IS STILL UNDERDEVELOPED. This is why people are saying that once Belgrade booms, it will be big and beutiful, no one is saying it beats Zagreb. But YOU are. And that is what makes me mad.

    Yes, Croatia has 9 airports, but Zagreb is pretty much the only one that does not operate solely on seasonal charters like Dubrovnik, Split, Pula, etc. So of course Croatia has more pax, no one says differently. But when it comes to airports it's about which carries the most, and which is in the best position. Even you cannot say that this is not Belgrade Nikola Tesla. Again no one mentioning that it is better than Zagreb, yet you feel that way.

    So yes, I consider you a nationalist due to your comments. If it does not have to deal with aviation then please keep it to yourself. I look forward to discussing aviation with you.

  120. AirKoryoTU-20410:48


    No offense Jeebusman, but how can you compare Zagreb and Belgrade to Athens? In my opinion the cities such as Belgrade and Zagreb have much less potential than Athens don't try and compete with such cities. It's like comparing Athens with London or Tokyo.

  121. Purger10:53

    Where on earth you can read nationalism in my posts? I just put numbers, and statistics are not nationalism!

    And about possition of Belgrade. Most of traffic from ZAG and BEG goes to West and Central Europe. Deviation from ex YU to this market by ZAG is much better then BEG. BEG is much to East for that and deviation is too big. Only market that is near to ZAG deviation from BEG is Macedonia. That is reason why ZAG had much more flights to West and Central Europe during Jugoslavia than BEG. And that is not nationalism, but statistic fact.

  122. Jeebusman15:50


    I compare the cities because they are close by in proximity. Hence why I said that Belgrade is behind Athens. I never mentioned Belgrade being greater than Athens, as that would be stupid. But I would rather compare Belgrade to Athens, Budapest, Bucharest, Sofia, etc. rather than Seoul, NYC, Chicago, Buenos Aires, etc.


    I do not see any numbers in your statement only words. And I do consider you a nationalist because you claim that Zagreb is better than Belgrade because of position towards Western Europe? NO. Firstly, the entire Western and Eastern world has given Belgrade credit for its ideal positioning, hence why throughout history it had been conquered so many times. The OSCE, EU, Council of Europe, and USA have proclaimed Belgrade as a future regional city of the Balkans (and in relation to aviation, all other air traffic control centers in the Balkans will be shut down and transferred to the new air traffic control center in BEG as a start of this initiative in 2012). May I remind you that this includes Athens, Bucharest, Sofia, and Budapest. And this was pretty much based on Belgrade's ideal location. And if I am not mistake, Belgrade will be having routes to Toronto and Chicago, and is negotiating for New York flights as well. Zagreb has not even finished negotiating for New York. And it won't be long before Chinese also come and start flights to Belgrade. They have a great interest in Serbia, investments in Serbia, and their diaspora is growing in Serbia. So those flights could happen within the next 5-10 years. They will not in Croatia.

    I am sorry to all for responding like this and if this continues I will join ORDBEG and just leave.

    And Purger, nationalism is never good. It's not healthy and it is destructive. I don't care what you post, but just saying Zagreb is better because of some bullshit reasons is stupid and wasting my time. You claim you have kids right? If that is the case, I'd shield them away from your ignorance and nationalistic sentiment that brought this so-called hatred in the first place. So I implore you to speak only of aviation here or just SHUT THE FUCK UP.

  123. frequentflyer15:54

    Dude, you need to relax a little.

    And yes, I agree, Purger you should just shut up and post aviation topics only!!!

  124. Anonymous15:59

    ^I agree for both statements :)

  125. Anonymous16:01

    Yeah Purger...SHUT THE FUCK UP! No need for nationalist statements here. You want nationalism, go to a Thompson concert.

  126. Anonymous16:05

    I think Purger and Lukavi Bosanac are great friends. Trashing Serbia and promoting Croatia like it is from the heavens. I hope they don't fuck each other and have kids...terrible for society...

  127. Purger17:15

    I am nationalist whan I speak about deviation? You are not normal!

    My god deviationa is agle on which rote of the plan from point 1 to point 2 most go if there is transit via point 3. Take rote SJJ-AMS via BEG and you will see angle and deviation. What nationalisam is in that?

  128. Anonymous19:22

    Your entire pro-Croatian and pro-Zagreb views have no place here. This not only goes for you but all the other Pro-Serbs and Pro-Belgrade views.

    And you are trying to prove something that you cannot. Belgrade is a perfect location. Right in the middle of East and West. Hence, why it is going to be a future hub for Balkans. The EU, OSCE, Council of Europe, OECD, USA, Russia, and China have all agreed and supported this. But you for some reason cannot. Why? Because you cannot understand that Belgrade has a bigger future than Zagreb and that it has more potential. And that goes in general not just aviation. But as far as aviation is concerned, even you should look at how many planes fly toZagreb and Belgrade. Dubrovnik gets the most flights and that is only in the summer time with 94% of them being chartered flights. Belgrade has few charters and mostly all-season long flights by excellent airlines. It won't be long before more transatlantic and trans-Asian flights start as well.

    Now I am finished, and this discussion is over. I will not let myself go down to your level. So once again, I do not mind you at all, just your stupid nationalistic comments.

    Has anyone gotten any updates about the New York-Belgrade flights by Ryan?