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| Serbia and Kosovo to discuss Belgrade - Pristina flights on October 13 |
Serbia and Kosovo are set to discuss the launch of a new Belgrade - Pristina air service during high level, EU-moderated, reconciliation talks between the two sides known as the Brussels Dialogue on October 13. Originally, the potential resumption of flights between the two cities, following a sixteen year hiatus, were discussed in April by the Serbian and Kosovan Chambers of Commerce. However, the Kosovan Minister Without a Portfolio in Charge of Dialogue with Belgrade, Edita Tahiri, requested for the issue to be examined at a higher level, deeming it a political, rather than an economic, matter. The Head of the Serbian government's Office for Kosovo, Marko Djurić, confirmed last night that the flights will now be discussed as part of the dialogue. "One of the topics that will be covered during the October 13 talks include the launch of a Belgrade - Pristina air service", Mr Djurić said. The two delegations will be headed by Ms Tahiri and Mr Djurić.
Kosovan media have stated it is “a matter of months” before Air Serbia launches services between Belgrade and Pristina. Furthermore, an agreement signed between the two blocks in Kosovo’s ruling coalition, LDK-PDK and the Serbian Srpska List, foresee the introduction of flights between the two cities. Previously, the Slot Coordinator at Pristina Airport, Driton Hyseni, said, “Both countries have targets to join the European Union, and direct flights will give a good signal that our two nations are leaving the past behind, and looking for a better future”. Last October, the Serbian government reached an agreement with its Kosovan counterpart to extend a free movement agreement, allowing Kosovan passport holders to transit through Belgrade Airport.
The Chairman of the Air Serbia Supervisory Board, Siniša Mali, said last October, “Our goal is to eventually fly twice daily to all capital cities in the region but before we do that we need to connect the last two cities in the former Yugoslavia that we do not fly to yet - Zagreb and Pristina”. Air Serbia has since launched double daily flights to the Croatian capital. The establishment of services between Belgrade and Pristina has been marked as a high priority by the Serbian government. It has been suggested for the flights to be initially run by a foreign carrier, which would be granted rights to operate the route. Currently, the quickest way to fly between Belgrade and Pristina is via Vienna, with journey time of over three and a half hours. JAT Yugoslav Airlines was the last to operate scheduled flights between the two cities.
A foreign airline operating these flights is a reasonable idea for the beginning. I think it would happen much quicker that way. Air Berlin would be the best option. It is part of the Etihad group and one of the largest operators at Pristina. A few months ago Air Berlin requested slots at BEG. They were even listed on BEG airport website. If memory serves me right, the turnaround time at BEG was extremely long, which leads me to believe that they would do another rotation in between. My money is on PRN. But since no agreement between the governments was made, AB put these BEG flights on hold.
ReplyDeleteIf I remember correctly the AB flights were in the evening and the turnaround time was regular, around 40 minutes.
DeleteAlso, I don't think AB is any position to launch these flights given their disastrous financial performance.
That Etihad Regional, that used to fly BEG-BNX last year, would have been perfect for this route.
DeleteIf you ask me, there is a serious duopoly on the Belgrade-Vienna market. This November fares are crazy! Air Serbia flies you on an Atr for €270 while Austrian flies you on a jet for €300+.
ReplyDeleteTo make things worse, at least when it comes to JU, the flights are NOT full, nowhere close. There are like 10 passengers on the morning flight so why keep the fares so high?!
Nebi bas rekao da je tako! Kartu na relaciji VIE-BEG sam narucio pre 1 dana i platio 123 Eur sa povratnon preko Air Serbia! 1.10 smo leteli sa A319 i avion je bio dobro popunjen. Cesto letim u poslednje vreme na toj relaciji i dosta puta se leti sam B737 ili A319/A320, naravno i atr!
DeleteThe fares are so high because Vienna airport has extremely high charges and fees for the airlines that fly to it so that low cost carriers want fly from there and thus Austrian Airlines want have any serious competition.
DeleteIf it had normal fees Wizz Air will be flying twice a day to BEG.
Ja sam gledao advanced booking i jako je lose stanje na letovima a karte na sajtu su preko 200 evra. Ti si je kupio dok je trajala promocija.
DeleteNo idea what is going on because BEG-VIE in November is as low as €125 on most days for both airlines.
DeleteMaybe you were looking at business class because Austrian seems to go for around €300 from what I saw.
he thing is that I am staying for only two days, that's why JU is charging so much. If I change my return for the next week then the prices fall to around 120 Euros.
DeleteI assume that you are flying up just for the weekend, hence such bookings always carry higher price tags.
DeleteNo, I am going for work so I will be there during the two, three working days.
DeleteCool. The prices on that route can be found for much cheaper, although not for your combination of days.
DeleteIf your itinerary doesn't include a Saturday night, you're charged the regular price targeting business travellers. Nothing strange about this, nor limited to BEG-VIE flights.
DeleteGood. Move on and leave the past behind. Business is business.
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean that Serbia offers Kosova de facto recognition as an independent state?
ReplyDeleteNo, it means that it will be the same situation as with Chinese flights to Taiwan.
DeleteI think yes!
DeleteObviously not. Kosovo and Metohija is, as per legal binding documents (Serbian Constitution and UN resolution 1244), a Serbian province. Although special regime will be applied to these passengers, upon their transiting via BEG, this will be treated as a domestic flight. It is interesting to see whether Terminal 1 will be used solely for this traffic.
DeleteI don't think it really matters from where the flight will depart. Both terminals have a passport control so passengers will still have to stand in line and show their IDs/passports. For it to work as a real domestic flight it will have to be the same set-up as when flying within the Schengen zone.
DeleteWhat kind of documents would be required that Kosovan passengers have?
DeleteWould the customs at BEG put a stump on a passport that says Kosovo and not Serbia?
All Serbs from Kosovo continue to use Serbian passports. Also, a large number of Albanians have them too (which they are entitled to, since they are deemed by Belgrade as being citizens of Serbia), as it gives them far greater freedom of movement than other perceived documents that they might have.
DeleteCorrect, what happens with Albanians who don't have or don't want for various reasons to use Serbian passports?
DeleteSome Kosovan Albanian coming from e.g. Germany to BEG with Kosovan passport which Germany recognizes how is he going to pass BEG customs?
And of course the reverse, going from Kosovo to the E.U. via BEG.
Read the article again. From October last year you can use Kosovo passport to clear customs at BEG for transit purposes.
DeleteWhat about Kosovans (without a Serbian passport) who want to go to Serbia and not transit BEG internationally.
DeleteIs there going to be a provision for that?
I'm not sure. At this point I think it's only transit but then again I remember that as part of the deal they now accept Kosovan passports at a few land boarder points as well. If anyone knows and can share info I am quite interested as well.
DeleteIma nenormalno puno kosovskih buseva koji voze preko srbije za Nemacku i jos nekoliko zemalja i normalno prelaze.
DeleteINN-NS
Serbia recognizes ID cards issued by Kosovar authorities, but not passports. So I reckon Kosovo nationals would either use Kosovar ID or passport of another country.
DeleteOT: A3 reported third quarter passenger numbers:
ReplyDeleteJul-Aug-Sep 2015: 4.267.754
Jul-Aug-Sep 2014: 3.571.754
A 19% increase.
International traveler numbers increased by 29% compared with last year.
Cyprus Airways failure effect maybe?
DeleteI am sure it contributed some but it was manly ATH and bases in islands that had major growth.
DeleteA3's HER traffic was up 31% and RHO 30%.
Skiathos up 60% and Zante 51%
ATH is up 21% this year and is aiming for 18 million pass. plus for the whole of 2015.
DBV and BEG flights also did great this year and they are greatly increasing capacity for 2016.
Cyprus did play a big role but I think most of this growth came from newly launched routes to places such as Manchester, Birmingham, Yerevan, Tbilisi, Tehran... but as mentioned above, it also helped that Aegean finally pulled its act together and entered the charter market.
DeleteAs far as the next summer goes, I have a feeling that Aegean is also preparing a big expansion in Larnaca. They have not yet published their schedule there but they did load TLV as 10 weekly. The market is big but not that big, especially given the amount of competition on that market.
Don't forget that growth in Athens did not only come from Aegean but from Ryanair too. BlueAir is also expanding in both Athens and Larnaca so things will get pretty interesting in 2016.
My brother was in Tel Aviv airport in early August and he is certain that he saw 5 Aegean aircraft parked in the gates!
DeleteWith the exception of El Al no other airline had so many aircraft in the airport at the time.
Are they really having so many flights between Israel and Greece/Cyprus?
The market between Israel and both Cyprus and Greece is massive.
DeleteWhen it comes to Cyprus, you have Aegean, UP! and Arkia competing against each other. Many Israelis have their companies in Cyprus from where they do business with the rest of the world, especially the Arab countries. That's why the market is not only big but it's also highly lucrative. For several years now, Israeli tourists ranked as the biggest spenders in Cyprus averaging €250 spent per day!
When it comes to Greece, Thessaloniki used to have a massive Jewish community before the Second World War. Today the Jewish community is not as big as before the war but you have a lot of religious tourism and Greece is extremely popular among Israeli tourists so when all is put together you get a lot of people travelling between the two countries. It's also worth mentioning that a lot of Israeli holidaymakers have started going to both Cyprus and Greece after the few incidents that occurred in Turkey.
Next summer Aegean will have up to 4 daily scheduled flights plus God knows how many charters. That's probably what your brother saw.
For example when you take a look at Aegean's Alexandria flights, they are sustained by a considerable O&D demand. Greeks have been living and working as merchants there since the 16th century. Even Egyptair used to operate flights to both Larnaca and Paphos from Alexandria.
Wow Nemjee, thank you. Very informative explanation!
DeleteMy pleasure. :)
DeleteYou have enough knowledge to start your own Aegean blog and shift your focus there.
DeleteRunning a successful blog requires a lot of time and energy which I don't have given that I have a demanding full time job. But thank you for your suggestion. ;)
Deletep.s. if these Aegean discussions bother you so much, you are always more than welcome to ignore them.
If you don't have time and energy as you say, don't waste them here on Aegean posts where you suggest people should ignore them anyway. You are welcome.
DeleteYesterday, Air Serbia cancelled its flight to BNX. Does anybody know why?
ReplyDeleteCommercial reason. For the same reason Air Serbia cancelled some flights to Athens, Brussels, Milan and Rome in October.
DeleteYou mean if some flights do not have a large enough load factor they cancel them and put the passengers on another flight some days later?
DeleteParis too, I had to change my itinerary to the US because JU cancelled the morning departure to CDG (25.10). They told me that we were like 10 on that flight.
DeleteActually that's what happened to me. I was booked on BEG-CDG-SLC and once JU cancelled the morning flight they offered to put me on the afternoon flight which meant that I would have to spend the night at CDG.
DeleteNow I am flying with Lufthansa and United via FRA and LAX and then on the way back with UA and OS.
It happens to LH and OS too.
DeleteYes but they have many frequencies and connections so you don't feel it. JU doesn't have that luxury.
DeleteI was on one of the cancelled BRU flights (Sunday evening). JU put me on the Monday morning flight, but that was unacceptable to me because I had to be in the office Monday morning. They rebooked me via VIE instead without much hassle.
DeleteIt never happens to me with LH and OS!!!!
DeleteI wonder if they've been short of planes again?
Deleteot
Air Seychelles in Nis! :)
ReplyDeletehttp://tangosix.rs/2015/07/10/isporuka-aviona-er-sejsela-preko-nisa/
Velike su sanse da linija pocne sa radom posto treba doci jos koji ATR .
ReplyDeleteInteresantno je da X3 planira da uvede letove za Iran pa dalje za USA preko HAJ steta sto jos ASL nije zaintresovana bas nesto za takve letove.
INN-NS
Sad moze IATA ? Il mozda nisi bio pri ICAO tabeli?
DeleteNe nego da vas podsetim da treba da znate i jedno i drugo posto je ovo vazduhoplovni forum .
DeleteBio jako zadovoljan kad bi makar znali IATA kodove iz EX YU dalje ne mora .
INN-NS
Za INN-NS od 12:42 AM,
Deletemoje mišljenje je da ovo nije vazduhoplovni forum.
Ovo je nečiji blog vezan za civilni vazdušni saobraćaj s posebnim naglaskom na Ex-Yu prostor.
Pojam vazduhoplovstva je daleko širi od pojma civilnog vazdušnog saobraćaja i uvijek me ubode nerazumijevanje i pogrešno korištenje riječi vazduhoplovstvo, vazduhoplovni itd, a radi se o nečem mnogo užem.
Cypriot media just reported that JU flight from AUH to BEG diverted to LCA, Apparently they smelled smoke in the aircraft.
ReplyDeleteThere were 73 passengers onboard.
Only 73 passengers on a A320?
DeleteThat is a very low loadfactor.
A319. Not that bad to be honest. How much Croatia has on its flights to DXB? Oups...
Delete* A319
DeleteCroatian isn't stupid enough to start flights to DXB. Or JFK ;-)
DeleteNo. Croatian doesn't have the funds to start such flights. They are still a state owned company without a strategic partner.
DeleteYet JU is the one that is shrinking this winter season despite having such a renowned strategic partner
DeleteEven so, JU knows how to keep its fleet busy during the winter months. It doesn't have to lease out its planes all over the world.
DeleteHow does JU have the funds. Oh I forgot, it's the funds from the Arabs. If they were true funds from ASL, I would applaud them, but funds from their investor and from the taxpayer are not true funds. Borrowed time I guess.
DeleteEnvious much? lol. The reason why they are called an investor is because they invest money. Get it? So obviously, the funds will come from them. The opposite being sucking all the funds from the state budget. Sounds familiar to you? lol
DeleteHow exactly is JU keeping its fleet busy? By keeping it parked at the airport or by grounding the entire Boeing fleet?
DeleteWhat about the Serbian government and it's massive subventions? The government is not supposed to be investing in a company it owns. Furthermore, what are we to say about EY when they are chronically failing at bringing AB around? Same thing with JU.
DeleteParked at the airport? Please send us some photos of that situation, so that we can all see.
DeleteMassive subventions? Lol. Well, they are not that massive. And neither are they subventions. They are discounted or free services offered under the 49% : 51% ration stipulated in the partnership agreement, and since they are granted by other state companies, this is deemed as direct investment.
"The government is not supposed to be investing in a company it owns." Bwahaha! Okay sunshine. This comment is so bizarre, I wont even bother responding to it.
Who spoke about AB? I'm talking about JU here. So let stick to the topic. EY has a wide portfolio of other success stories, including JU.
This winter season they are planning to have 2 Atrs doing maximum one daily rotation- great fleet planning, as mentioned before.
DeleteActually, if you bothered to read EU legislation you would know what I am talking about. There is a reason why Brussels doesn't allow for governments to financially back the companies they own. They don't allow it because it distorts the market as was seen in Serbia. If JU can't compete effectively then they shouldn't be cheating. Giving them preferential treatment is a form of favouritism that harms the market and puts the Serbian tax payers and travellers at a disadvantage. I bet that they will extend the subventions beyond 2016 because JU is far from being a self-sustaining business.
EY? Like what? They are also being kept alive because the sheikh is writing cheques worth of billions. Have we already forgotten the scandal in Australia when it was uncovered that SYD was giving them subventions?! I guess their success comes at a price of making some behind the closed doors deals that would have never had the backing of the public opinion.
Also, AB is very much relevant to this discussion because they were their first big European investment a few years ago. The situation keeps on going from bad to worse and the fact that FR is going to attack them directly doesn't help either. So yes, we shouldn't put EY on a pedestal because they are far from being a competent airline.
Only EK operates like a true company and they have been operating like that for over two decades now.
What was JU801 doing overflying the Mediterranean? The usual route is over Iraq/Turkey. Can't be the Russian intervention as other airlines are still flying that area.
DeleteIt happens from time to time that they do take the southern route which takes them from Thessaloniki, across the Aegean Sea, south of Rhodes then a straight line to the Israeli-Egyptian border flying south of Cyprus onwards past Jordan and Saudi Arabia. EY 071 took the same route yesterday. Basically, after passing the Aegean Sea it joins the flight path of the other Middle Eastern flights that depart Athens.
DeleteAny chance that this connection will start till the end of 2015?
ReplyDeleteOT: Wizz has just announced new route from Belgrade to Baden Baden.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.aviatica.rs/wizz-air-nova-linija-iz-beograda-do-aerodroma-karlsruebaden-baden/
Wizz Air, the largest low-cost airline in Central and Eastern Europe, today announced a new service from Belgrade to Karlsruhe/Baden-Baden in Germany. The twice-weekly service will begin on 28 March 2016 and is Wizz Air’s third low-fare route between Belgrade and Germany along with service to Dortmund and Munich-Memmingen. The spa town in southwestern Germany is located close to the borders of France and Switzerland and is a popular destination for its thermal spring resorts as well as Europa-Park – the second most popular theme park resort in Europe. Fares on the new route start from RSD 3,399 and are already available for bookings on wizzair.com.
DeleteKoji manijak je pisao ovo saopstenje? Aerodrom se nalazi izmedju Strazbura i Stutgarta i direktno je opet napad na ASL linija za Stutgart a sad nasim dobro i za Strazbur. Wizz ne zna drugacije da radi. Dobro su odabrali.
DeleteAnonymous 3:12 PM is exactly right. Just look at a map.
DeleteThis is bad news for JU.
Ta linija je cista glupost u blizini ima ASL plus skoro svakodnevni Busevi Touringa i ostalih kompanija koje idu za Srbiju .
DeleteSamo mi je drago sto se vidi da ASL nema Monopol pa cete malo moci da ucutite.
INN-NS
Izvini ali ce sada gastosi cesce iz okoline Stutgarta da dolaze Wizzom nego sa ASLom. Sto ces ti direktno da osetis bice manje autobuskih linija i cena karte ce biti veca na njima.
DeleteKako da ne hoce sigurno pa ce karta da ih izadje 1000 Eura sa W6 nece oni nijednog putnika uzeti od ASL posto vecina ne ide samo do LYBE nego dalje.
DeleteA Touringu i ostalima W6 takodje W6 nece uzeti mnogo putnika.
INN-NS
Samo sanjaj. Pitaj ove iz okoline Ajdhovena.
DeleteIsn't this a similar scenario to what happened in Larnaca?
DeleteAnon 3:44
Delete+1
In the beginning ASL will be canceling more and more flights because it has very few passengers and then will exit the route.
Just like LCA and BUD.
Schedule:
Delete1---5--
BEG-FKB 14.20-16.15
FKB-BEG 16.45-18.35
INN,
DeletePrvo kažeš
"plus skoro svakodnevni Busevi Touringa i ostalih kompanija koje idu za Srbiju"
Pa onda kažeš:
"posto vecina ne ide samo do LYBE nego dalje."
Znači ti pretpostavljaš da iz Stuttgarta Air Serbia-om do Beograda idu samo transferni putnici?
Ako misliš da je tako, onda ok, uzeće Touringu i drugim kompanijama.
Ako misliš da ima i onih koji idu samo do Beograda/Srbije, onda ovo što si napisao nema smisla:
"Ta linija je cista glupost u blizini ima >>ASL<<"
Odluči se, jel idu do aerodroma Nikola Tesla ili koriste BEG da presedaju. Nego si ti nabacao sve žive argumente kojih si se setio.
Ne predpostavljam ja nista nego znam da je skoro vecina putnika transferna.
DeleteA ostatak teksta je teorija zavere protiv vas ljubomornih.
INN-NS
Owner of the site that broke the Wizz BEG-FKB news commented in another blog with "napokon i neka lepa vest". Positive developments from Air Serbia like WiFi and opening of Premium lounge are not good news for him, but when competition expands thats finally good news? Good to know.
DeleteWizz Air is affordable to most Serbian passengers, Air Serbia with its mostly ludicrous prices is not.
DeleteAnon 8:11
Delete+1
@2:27
DeleteWhy isn't more competition good news? It is GOOD news for the travelers as it brings prices down.
JU's premium lounge and Wifi on board is a positive development, but only a fraction of it's pax will be using either services: it doesn't benefit everybody. The premium lounge is for C and frequent travelers. The cost of the Wifi is too high for most pax.
And it's good news for the airport who will get more revenues from an airline that does pay it's fees.
DeleteZdravo INN-NS at 12:43 AM
Deletenapisao si "predpostavljam" a trebao si napisati "pretpostavljam".
Na primjer, ispravno je:
predstojnik, potpredsjednik, odstojnik, odškolovati, potpuno, podvaliti, vrapca, čevabdžinica" itd.
Kada se u okviru jedne riječi nađu dva suglasnika nejednake zvučnosti, oni teže da se izjednače tako što se prvi jednači (ispravlja) prema drugome.
Tako npr
vrabac to jest vrabca prelazi u vrapca,
ćevap to jest ćevapdžinica prelazi u ćevabdžinica.
Medjutim, takodje postoji pravilo koje kaže da nikada ne činimo jednačenje suglasnika po zvučnosti ako se radi o "d" ispred "s i š".
Zato je ispravno "pretpostavljam" a ne "predpostavljam".
Ajde ne lupetaj odstupanja umesto otstupanja je primer za odstupanje d ispred s.
DeleteZa Anonymous October 9, 2015 at 9:41 AM
DeleteHm, ovo drugo "odstupanje" ti je baš viška, a trebao si koristio i jednu zapetu nakon "lupetaj", Umjesto tog drugog "odstupanja" mogao si koristiti riječ "pravilo".
Ajde ne lupetaj, odstupanja umesto otstupanja je primer za d ispred s (pravilo).
INN-NS, možda nije na odmet da malo razmisliš i povučeš ručnu, bar do prvog zuba. Manje ćeš se provaljivati...
DeleteNpr, na šta bi smo mogli biti ljubomorni?
OT:
ReplyDeleteYesterday I was flying from BEG to ZRH, I've seen 3 Transaero B737 parked in front Jat Tehnika hangar. i don't know if they are waiting for maintenance or they are finished.
They are 'finished'. The airline has gone bankrupt.
DeleteWho is going to pay Jat Technika for their work?
DeleteZnači, avioni ce da "zaglave" na duže..
Deleteprobably not.
DeleteDanas su na Dubrovniku bili Thomsonovi:
ReplyDelete767-300 za MAN
787-800 za LGW
757-200 za BRS
757-200 za GLA
757-200 za BHX
svaki cetvrtak je tako..
DeleteCan anyone comment yesterday's diversion of YU-APD to Larnaka airport on its flight from Abudabi to Belgrade?
ReplyDelete