They had very reasonable prices, especially for connections to Russia. I'm surprised they don't fly more to ex-Yu and haven't considered Zagreb or Ljubljana too.

Great news. I hope they do come back. Nice to see foreign airlines considering BEG as a destination again after so many pulled out a few years ago.

Maybe one of the eight new destinations for next year is Zagreb or Ljubljana :D

How many times per week were they flying back in 09-11?

Can the Dash 8 make it from Riga to Belgrade? Would be a good aircraft for the route capacity wise.

They started off with 3 weekly and increased it up to 4 weekly flights.

Wow that CS300 looks damn good. Would be a perfect aircraft for either Air Serbia or Croatia AIrlines.

Have they announced those 8 destinations?

They used to send the Q400 to BEG from time to time but the route was mostly operated by the leased F100.

I think the flight was 02.45 on the Q400.

OT:Sarajevo Airport is offering Incentive to attract and support airlines!

INCENTIVE SCHEMES TO SUPPORT AIRLINES AND NEW DESTINATIONS



1. New Destination (10-30% off the handling fees)
2. Increased frequencies (10-20% on landing and take off fees)
3. Number of transported passenger
( ≤ 10.000 0,0%
10.001 – 25.000 10,0 %
25.001 – 50.000 15,0 %
50.001 – 65.000 17,0 %
65.001 – 80.000 19,0 %
80.001 – 100.000 20,0 %
100.001 – 150.000 22,0 %
150.001 – 200.000 24,0 %
> 200.001 25,0 % )
4. Incentive to airlines using Sarajevo Airport as its base.
Discount on landing and take off price 50%
Discount on aircraft parking price 50%

od Rige do Ženeve (Švajcarska), Aberdina (Velika Britanija), Stavangera (Norveška), Geteborga (Švedska), Tampera (Finska), Katanije (Italija) i Odese (Ukrajina). i iz Vilnjusa prema Parizu i Minhenu

almost 3 hours in a Q400 must have been an uncomfortable ride. Didn't they used to have RJ100s too?

Thankfully they came to their senses, though I think this might be targeted at Wizz Air.

I think it would be too big for both of them. It has 145 seats.

Well lets hope some of these considerations like TAP and Air Baltic turn into a reality.

Is there really demand between Serbia and the Baltics? My presumption is most passengers were transfers in the past. Where did they continue on to?

Q400 from RIX to LJU or ZAG is okay but BEG would be just too long. The cheap Canadian aircraft is too big and will be difficult to fill, so maybe Q400 or 735?

Before it was mostly Scandinavia and Russia. But things have changed since then. There is more competition, especially from LOT. Their main strong point was price.

@9:08

They do serve Croatia. They fly to Dubrovnik and Rijeka seasonally :)

My guess is that AirBaltic can be cheaper alternative for Russia and eastern European destinations... Not sure about demand dough.

I agree, they need something smaller that can handle about 100 passengers.

I would say Scandinavia (Serbian diaspora) and former CIS. A possible scenario is code sharing with JU - daily RIX-BEG.

Anyone flown with them? What's their service like?

Yes, they had both the 100 and 70 series but those were retired a long time ago, about the same time when the dancing lady livery was dropped.

Business class upfront and buy on board in economy.

That codeshare seems so odd. Who is going to fly Belgrade-Riga and then to Amsterdam, Berlin or Vienna?

It works the other way around, passengers from Belgrade flying to Riga can connect in Amsterdam, Berlin or Vienna.

airBaltic numbers in BEG:

May
2010: 725 pax on 10 flights
2011: 1.679 pax on 18 flights

June
2010: 1.581 pax on 17 flights
2011: 1.883 pax on 17 flights

July
2010: 2.073 pax on 17 flights
2011: 2.207 pax on 17 flights

August
2010: 1.935 pax on 17 flights
2011: 2.017 pax on 18 flights

For comparison's sake these are Lot's numbers for August:

2010: 1.726 pax on 23 flights
2011: 2.221 pax on 23 flights


As you can see, there was a market for BT but the issue was that they experienced a serious fleet shortage. They were primarily carrying passengers to St. Petersburg, Finland, Sweden and the rest of Russia, Moscow included.

They have a really strong brand in the Nordic +Russia region so it's not surprising they experienced good sales from the start.

I don't see what JU has to offer to BT. If they return to BEG then it will be to offer connections via RIX, not onto JU.

Not sure why the outrage for a Q400 flight between 2-3 hours. Been there, done that - no issues that I can report. Only difference noticeable is that it had 2-2 seating compared to 3-3 in a Airbus/Boeing. Not uncommon at all to use the turboprop on routes longer than 2 hours. Every second airline with Dash planes does it - with no problems. In the area, see OU to Scandinavia, OS to Lyon. And Baltic to Western Europe, TXL,BUD,VIE etc. That's really no issue, the plane is a reliable workhorse and not uncomfortable. Routes of 4 hours are even possible too - though I don't know any.

It's not so much about comfort as it is about economics which are no longer as great on these longer segments. BT has considerable O&D market to rely upon on flights from Riga to Amsterdam or Berlin (RIX-TXL is only 01.40 btw) so it's easy to compensate (to a certain point). Same with OS which charges crazy fares for its own O&D market unless they face direct competition from a lowcost carrier.

Fares from Belgrade were extremely competitive which means their yields were not as great. In addition to that when the lease on the F100 expired they most likely needed their a/c elsewhere.

Thanks a lot for the numbers Nemjee. Much appreciated.

Thanks. I'm surprised they offer business class.

Those figures are much better than I thought. Completely agree that JU has nothing to offer to Air Baltic. I hope they return anyway.

They were in an absolute mess when they ended BEG and I was always hoping they would come back. They are in a much better position now.

So many?
Wizz marketing dept. cannot overcome the ineffectiveness of their blackmail few years ago. While they were trowing temper tantrum, BEG ignored them and they crawled back.

You are welcome. The thing is that the market between Latvia and the Balkans is rather small and airlines such as LH, LO and TK are covering it nicely. JU/BT would have to invest a lot of time and funds to secure a small piece of a relatively small cake.

On the other hand, BT can offer a lot to passengers originating in Belgrade, especially destinations such as LED where JU flies seasonally.

Does not make sense in both directions.

Things have certainly changed. Last time they were flying to Belgrade they were interested in buying Jat. Baltic Aviation Systems, which is a part owner air Baltic was the only airline to purchase the tender documentation.

Good news. Are there any other new potential arrivals to BEG next year?

They could always start off with seasonal flights to BEG and see how that performs before going year round.

yes, at this time they both need 100 seater, as they have planes with that capacity

Perhaps TAP and Air China. Wizz new routes and Transavia are confirmed.

Don't get why SAS just doesn't start BEG.

CPH-BEG could work daily with Crj900.

Their low cost subsidiary Snowflake used to fly to Belgrade. Although SK from CPH would make sense.

Great but I'm still missing Air France and British Airway? Any chance of them coming back?

Snowflake flew in like 2004 and they were extremely expensive not to mention that we needed visas back then.

BA no, as long as the British visa regime stays towards Serbia, no BA flights and that will not change anytime soon.

AF/KLM are monitoring BEG, and in a way are coming back through their LCC Transavia, a lot depends how this route works out... AF may return, KL not in the near term.

Even if BA enters the market they wouldn't be able to compete with JU as far as the p2p market goes. Their service has gone down the drain especially when it comes to business class.

If they want to return to BEG they can do it from LGW and compete with W6's LTN flights.

Bilo bi dobro da se malo detaljnije obrazlozi zasto se BA ne zeli vratiti na BEG.
Opste je poznato da je BA leteo devedesetih za BEG, dakle u vreme u kom je pored viza bilo jos i "spoljneg zida sankcija", daleko manjeg broja putnika i cega sve ne.
U krajnjem slucaju ne verujem da su vize bas glavni razlog jer BA leti iz na primer LGW za TIA. Podseticu da Albancima takodje treba viza za UK a sumnjam da je njihovo trziste vece.

RIX-LJU/ZAG = 844 miles
RIX-BEG = 852 miles

???

BA se drzi dalje od Beograda jer JU lepo pokriva LHR a W6 drzi sve ostale preko Lutona. Dakle BA ne vidi interes da se bori za relativno malo trziste, u poredjenju sa BUD, OTP...

Wizz never left, who mentioned them? I'm talking about the 5-6 airlines that left over the last few years. Do I need to list them?

Fresh indication that the new BEG control tower will be built next year. The new Nis one to be built within the next 2 years.

http://www.b92.net/biz/vesti/srbija.php?yyyy=2016&mm=12&dd=05&nav_id=1206565

BT should look at ZAG, there is a desperate need for more competition especially to the northern region.

Tih godina, BA je imao vrlo slabu konkurenciju u vidu lošeg JATa i bez Wizza. BEG je takodje tada bio manje opslužen stranim kompanijama.

Yield iz TIA je daleko bolji od BEGa a konkurencija mnogo manja.

Agree but from what I hear, the prices at ZAG airport are quite destimulating for many carriers interested in starting flights.

Yield iz TIA bolji? Rofl

Isto mislim da BA trenutno nema sta da trazi na BEG. Prema Jatovim btojkama, BA je u poslednjih godinu dana letenja za BEG imao manje putnika od Jata na ovoj liniji a Wizz je isto imao svoj uticaj. Sada bi situacija sa Er Srbijom bila jos teza.

I think that ZAG have bigger chance than BEG to attract BT. Croatia is a leading tourist destination.

Well in the text the CEO seems to mention Belgrade not Zagreb.

That's why they fly to the coast, not Zagrab.

Please list them.

It is always better to be specific. Otherwise it reads as a spin, or misleading misrepresentation.

I agree, they are out of arguments so they make things up.

@AnonymousDecember 5, 2016 at 9:02 AM

Actually the're looking at adding Zagreb twice weekly from summer season.

They are still talking to Zagreb about the route, air Baltic was looking to expand in Croatia to Pula, Zadar and Zagreb.

Aegean is also coming to Zagreb in 2017, with twice weekly service, this 90% certain.

Alitalia, SAS, Aer Lingus, EasyJet, TAP, Swiss, Finnair, Aegean and Air Baltic are the airlines Zagreb Airport management is talking to in introducing flights in 2017, with TAP, Swiss returning, Iberia is increasing its frequency to trice weekly starting on June 3rd to October 3rd and increasing this to four weekly flights in July and August.

All these carriers are flying to Croatia already and Zagreb is looking at getting them as soon as new terminal is finished.

Old terminal was barely coping with 5 flights per hour, new terminal will be able to handle 12 flights per hour easily and have high turnover rate for LCCs, 20-30 min for LCCs.

AnonymousDecember 5, 2016 at 1:01 PM
Do you know is de-icing platform at BEG opened ?

BT is LCC. LCCs are looking for the airports with low fees. ZAG has high fees. Maybe it changes with the new terminal, bit I doubt. However, BT fly twice weekly to Rijeka, which is connected with modern highway to Zagreb, has much lower fees than ZAG, and "covers" not only Rijeka and Zagreb, but also Istria, Slovenia and Trieste

how is the CS 100/300 cheap lol? They cost around 70 and 80 million. While cheaper than Airbus/Boeing, it is more expensive than Embraer and Sukhoi.

Their jets are more than ok - they just need better sales people who can fill their aircraft

If BT was after airports with low fees then they would fly to EIN, not AMS. CRL not BRU, BTS not VIE...

The issue in ZAG is not just the charges, it's lack of a market otherwise they would have been there.

Do you think FZ left as well because of the small terminal?

He mentions BEG, because somebody asked him for BEG. If nobody asked him I don't see why he will speaking that the city is interesting, but there is nothing sure yet. Usually companies don't disclose this kind of information. Nobody reveals his plans before they are confirmed.

I don't understand why the need to argue with me, because that's exactly what I said: BT already flies to RJK, airport which succesfully "covers" market of ZAG, northern Adriatic, northeastern Italy and Slovenia, and all of that with fees lower than ones in ZAG. But if you really want to argue, HV flies from both EIN and AMS, FR flies from both CRL and BRU and so forth, so it's never only one exclusive factor which determines which airport will be flown, which you probably know very well, but still somehow, it's necessary to stress that there is lack of market in ZAG, despite the fact that RJK could be called "Zagreb West", exactly as Memmingen is "Munich West" for W6, for example...

BEG needs new carriers to lower JU's huge market share and monopoly. JU is not cheap.

JU's market share is 50%. Croatia Airlines' in Zagreb is 64%, Adria's in Ljubljana is 65%. Wizz Air's in Skopje 55%. Over 20 airlines fly to Belgrade and a low cost airline has a base there and will be further expanding next year. Don't know what kind of monopoly you are talking about.

There is no point for BT to fly to ZAG when there is LO which takes care of the same market.

Hmmm, one can make wonders with the statistics. But, if we compare, let's say, two biggest in terms of pasengrs carried, those two being Croatia and Serbia respectively, and if we compare some 90 airline companies flying to HR and some 20 whic fly to SRB, and, respectively, compare number of passangers carried by foreign carriers within the entire country, than those numbers would be entirely different, and OU's share would amazingly fall to some 30 percent, while would JU's share remain equal, about 50 percent. And I still wouldn't call it JU's monopoly, however, it's the fact that looking nation-wide, there is much much less competition in SRB compared to HR, which of course goes in favour of flag carrier

There is less competition nationwide because they are two completely different markets where you have Croatia with a coastline and cities on the sea which get 95% of their traffic during the summer only.

And why there is no point for Air France, British Airways, Brussels Airlines, KLM, Iberia, ELAL, Air Transat, to fly to BEG? JU? Well, I don't think so, especially not for Iberia and Air Transat, as JU doesn't fly to either Canada or Spain. And concerning your aviation knowledge, LO is legacy carrier, BT is LCC, so they are absolutely not taking care of the same market, or same market segment. But, again, it is so important to stress all the time how there is no market in ZAG for anything

Come on, give me a break, if I earn million dollars, is it important if i made them in 1 week or 52 weeks? It's not important, of course. Total numbers make difference. And for your arguments "summer" and "coastline", I totally agree, and it's exactly what I meant when I was saying statistics can make wonders. Imagine now what would be the difference if we compared summer months only :) :) :)

Ok sure. Air Serbia with its 50% share is a definition of a monopolist and predator...

First of all, BT is NOT an LCC, they are a hybrid.

Also, the market from HR to the Baltics, Russia and the Nordic countries is far smaller than the one from Belgrade. The amount of airlines and frequencies is best proof of that.

If the market was bigger then there would be more options. I mean ZAG is really only linked to CPH with a decent amount of weekly flights.

@AnonymousDecember 5, 2016 at 3:52 PM

FZ left cause most people use Qatar to get to Zagreb, better transfers, Fly Dubai offers poor connections and terrible transfers.

I was genuinely surprised when they started flying to Zagreb knowing they're completing against likes of Qatar.

If emirates started flying to Zagreb, they'd be very successful but this is cause of transfers, loads of daily flights to Australia and Asia.

Qatar is doing so well is cause of transfers, nearly 90% of all passengers on Qatar flights are transfers.

Fly Dubai had few transfers, they might be more successful in Sarajevo where Qatar isn't competing against them, or Belgrade where they are part of an alliance with Etihad.

Who is part of an alliance with Etihad? flydubai? They are not really.

On what planet is Flydubai part of an alliance with Etihad?

They still have to open at night.

Anonymous at 5:10
Here is reply to you, no need to be so worried about BEG. It stands fine.
Air France has for them great code share with JU and on that way JU brings them the passengers they need in CDG so therefore they do not see need to fly to BEG now.
BA does not fly to BEG due to good JU presence (JU does not sell slots in LHR), visa regime, W6 presence etc.
ELAL does not fly to ZAG at this moment and BEG has connection with TLV with JU, ISRair and Arkia.
Brussels - JU flies to BRU and Serbia is not yet member of EU in order many clerks should fly there
KLM - JU flies to BEG and still has for KLM very good code share agreement so similar like AF they are happy with passengers which JU brings them. In order to test the market by themselves they are starting transavia flights next year
Iberia - are they flying to ZAG to now in winter time? I don't think so. Spain is for Serbia very seasonal market and it is covered by Vueling during summer season
Air Transat - are they also flying in winter season to ZAG? I don't think so...

JU flies to *AMS nad still has for KLM very good...

50% is A LOT! Please admit it.

BEG also has JFK

FZ, EY and QR all seem to be doing fine in Belgrade so why wouldn't they in Zagrab?

Yes it is....

That being the case, what do you call OU's share at ZAG or JP share at LJU, or even LH's share at MUC or FRA ?

Or EYs at AUH.

Or OUs at Mali Losinj.

or EK's at Dubai...

What do you mean you are "missing" AF and BA? I am missing QF tail at BEG so what?

I'm not sure what is the point of this conversation at all.... Nearly all national carriers have a disproportionate share of traffic at their hubs ... that is normal.

In ex-yu - both OU and JP have a far bigger share of traffic at their home hubs than does JU.

And ?

I don't get the point that whoever first raised this is trying to make ....

...or W6 at TZL...

Anon @4:46, I know you use Anonymous for your posts but every time I read your posts I see Wizz fingerprints and signature. Just use Wizz going forward. We all know that Wizz wants to be SEE monopolist but keeps blaming everyone else.

Nobody pays full list price nowadays ;)

I'm skeptical about this. They don't have a strong brand in the Nordic region, I live here and I've barely heard of them. I'd rather prefer SAS starting flights to BEG, like they are to ZAG. There's a strong interest by Scandinavians for Croatia, but that could easily be expanded to the entire balkans. Not to mention that Serbia has a much larger diaspora here than Croatia. Bosnia too. And there's a lot of Albanians especially from Kosovo, who'd also fly through Belgrade.
Also I hope that BEG finally gets BA, AF and KLM at the very least. It's the main hub in the Balkans, and it's cheaper than ZAG...I don't get it what the problem is.

I'm not 100% sure. However, in some other interesting BEG news, the renovations of the main hall of the terminal 1 building commenced today.

What about Skopje R.Macedonia

airBaltic is especially popular among price sensitive passengers in the Nordic region, I mean they operate around 18 weekly flights to HEL alone, 20 to LED, 26 to ARN and six to seven daily to Moscow. If their brand was weak I doubt they would manage to make all of these work. Also, just look at their performance in BEG, it's really impressive given that there is zero O&D demand there.

As for SK, I agree. I don't know what they are waiting for. They have a decent network out of CPH and like someone mentioned earlier, a daily CRJ-900 could work.

Svakako bi bilo odlicno da BT dodje u BEG oni mogu da ponude dobre stvari ASL i ASL moze njima da ponudi dobre stvari.
INN-NS

BA pulled out due to non-existant C class on BEG route.

Since JU truned into AirSerbia on many occasions I had a chance to upgrade prior to flight confirming this.

There is no business between UK and Serbia. Its not a visa issue at all...

Majstore može li uskoro neka vest o tome šta se to pravi na Terminalu 1 u Beogradu?

Yet JU's business class to LHR is always full.

BA's loads in the back weren't as great though. Rarely over 70% on the A320.

I know about Germanwings, British Airways, Air France, Adria, Air Baltic, Niki, ČSA all gone in the last 5 years if I am not wrong and also reductions by other companies such as Wizz.

Anonymous December 6,2016 at 2:21
Radi se rekonstrukcija glavnog hola,ulaz u treminal je zatvorrn,pa se ulazi iz terminala 2

Ok...I admit, it is me personally who's barely heard about them. I live in Copenhagen, though. They are a government owned LCC so it would be hard for them not to succeed here, but I'm telling you, they really aren't a particularly strong brand, at least in Scandinavia. Maybe the Baltic republics and Finland. Comparatively to ex-Yu, they would be maybe be at the level of Montenegro Airlines here. And I'm being generous with the comparison. That's not to say that any additional connection to Belgrade isn't a good thing.
Nevermind...but what about AF and BA? Why don't they fly to BEG, do you know Nemjee?