The Canadian plane manufacturer Bombardier has urged Air Serbia to replace its regional ATR fleet with the Dash 8 Q400 turboprop. Speaking on the sidelines of the Southeast Europe Aviation Summit, Bombardier's Director of Sales for Europe, Russia and CIS, Mark Gilbert, said, "Looking at Air Serbia, the Q400 not only replaces the ATRs but also helps them on some routes that are longer and that are narrower that go up to narrow bodies, which we understand are not being flown to full capacity, which is important. A good solution for Air Serbia would be two prone, the Q400 and C-series. I'm not saying that the CRJ900 and CRJ1000 would not fit here, but I would not want to go into an airline and give a three-aircraft solution. Let's keep it simple and let's give them two different fleet types". Within the former Yugoslavia, the Q400 turboprop, which has the capacity to seat up to 76 passengers, is currently flown only by Croatia Airlines. This year, Bombardier began offering the Q400 in a ninety-seat high density variant. According to Bombardier marketing, the aircraft breaks even with about a third of its seats filled.
Air Serbia currently operates six ageing 66-seat ATR72 planes and is yet to decide on whether it will maintain its regional operations with turboprop or jet-engine aircraft in the future. "Our strategy is to start flying double daily to a number of cities and to get new regional planes. We will see whether they will be turboprops or jet-engine aircraft. With these, we can cover points in the region", Air Serbia's Chairman, Siniša Mali, has said. Last year, the airline's CEO, Dane Kondić, noted that such a decision will depend on a range of factors such as pricing and other terms and conditions. However, leasing aircraft, rather than ordering them from the manufacturer, could be a simpler solution due to the longer time required to deliver new-built aircraft.
Bombardier has also seen an opportunity to pitch its new C-series aircraft to Air Serbia. Mr Gilbert noted, "They have a fleet of A319 and A320s and the C-series is an optimal aircraft for that. One of the big reasons is seasonality here. In the summertime you have 67% of annual traffic and that is growing year over year. What you want is an aircraft that can balance off as much as much as it can the good and the bad. We see, for example, on sectors from Belgrade to Amsterdam, where the A320s are only hauling around 85 passengers in the winter. Now, that's growing and you have to keep growth into perspective but that's still a low number. So what you want to do is get a C-series aircraft which has the lowest trip cost and balance out that seasonality". Air Serbia has ten Airbus A320neos on order which will eventually replace the current jet-engine fleet. The jets have the capacity to seat up to 165 passengers in a two-class configuration. Air Serbia will start taking delivery of the jets in the second half of 2018, with all ten to be with the airline by 2020.
Comments
What worries me is that JU would use them to places like CPH or STR during winter time when there is less demand.
As for their reliability, there were issues but OS and OA seem to be doing fine. They don't seem too unhappy with them.
In the end, I don't think this deal will happen. We will most likely see some second hand Atrs join the fleet next year.
ponedjeljak 12.12. u 20:40
Air Serbia ATR 72
32/66 = 48%
Beograd-Zagreb
srijeda 14.12. u 18:20
Air Serbia ATR 72
66/66 = 100%
Zagreb-Beograd
srijeda 14.12. u 20:40
Air Serbia ATR 72
44/66 = 67%
72% u prosjeku sredinom prosinca. Jako dobri rezultati.
Zagreb-Beograd
During first two weeks of December Air Serbia flew 24 times BEG-ZAG, 2020 passengers, 24 flights in total. They fly double daily, excluding evening flight on Saturdays and morning flight on Sundays. One flight was performed with B733, all others with ATR72-200 (mostly) and ATR72-500.
By flight hours done, Q400 is the most reliable turbo prop ac.
B) longer distances possible and better distance-fuel consumption ratio compared to ATR
24x66 seats means they offered 1.584 seats in total for 2020 passengers?
Presented results are quite obviously for both directions, can't you conclude that by yourself ?
ATR had 76 orders in 2015. In begging of 2016 they had backlog of 260 planes what is enough for 3 years of production.
Q400 - znacajno skuplji, brzi, veca potrosnja goriva, veci dolet, veca visina leta.
That is correct but they are simply old. Most are from 1990.
B) actually Q400 burns significantly more fuel per passenger than ATR.
ATR 500s & 600s with contemporary interior are perfectly adequate aircraft for 45-60 min flights, silent, comfortable. economical.
I would love to see Embraer E jets in the fleet but I seriously doubt that the fleet ATR, E195, A319, A320 and A330 would make Financial Department happy.
Ive flown on LH and JP CRJ900s numerous times and never liked them as a passenger. LH & YM Embraers are far ahead.
Eight
Btw. I heard that turboprops are marginally safer for flying. Is that true?
But the best part of the Q400, is that it can replace the jet on medium haul routes when it's flying at 50% load, like in the winter time, which is not only a problem for Air Serbia but for all regional companies around Balkans.
ATR is great, but it has limited capabilities in some sectors.
http://www.exyuaviation.com/2016/12/wizz-air-to-start-pristina-flights.html
Now air serbia must launch flights belgrade pristina:)
B) it burns more on very short routes (up to approx. 55mins if i remember correctly) but can do long routes of two hours and more for ex. where it is more economical
Interesting to all Slovenians on here.
As for the assumption that people "prefer" jets: If you generally ask people, that statement will be true. A jet is the most comfortable aircraft type and is the quietest inside of the cabin.
But if you ask: Do you prefer flying BEG-VIE-BEG (2x300nm) for EUR 150 return in Turboprop or EUR 200 return in jet, the results will be different.
B) No, you don't remember correctly. ATR remains much more economical on much longer routes.
So you claim that Q400 becomes somehow more economical on flights above 2 hours compared to ATR?
Why would you submit your passengers to 2+ hours flights on turboprop? I see no logic there. I thought comfort is important to you.
I takodje mislim da bi Embraer takodje bio odlican izbor za Regionalnu Flotu.
A naravno treba ostati porudzbina za A320 neo .
INN-NS
"I haven't heard that they have had issues paying for them"
did you possibly heard of belgrade airport writeoffs for airserbia?
once that practice is stopped there will be problems.
2/ Air Serbia has been paying ALL airport fees as of 1 Jan from this year.
So, while you are free to write whatever you wish, your credibility is significantly helped when you post facts, rather than fiction
Aouuch big time if your height is over 180 cm..
Primer jedan, godinama putujem po celom svetu i usluga na ASL A330 na putu iz JFKa za BEG je ista (u organizacionom smislu kabinskog osoblja) kao i pre neku godinu kada sam sa A330 leteo Etihadom ka Australiji, konkretno Perthu.
Zato gledam na ASL kao Etihad samo u kome rade Srbi po Etihadovim pravilima i po evropskom regionu.
Naravno voleo bih da cujem Vasa misljenja i misljenje gospodina Alena na ovaj moj komentar.
Sve najbolje dobri ljudi!
However if you are serious about comparing Dash and Jets on typical short haul routes - we can compare that too and the turboprop will almost always win very easily.
Ref B) That is not what was meant. The Q400 becomes more economical compared to ATR from a certain average flight time. That is logical and easy to explain as in some flight stages ATR performs economically better and in some it is the Dash. On higher altitude and faster speeds the ATR is being outperformed by the Dash on routes with certain sector lengths (Q400 on bit longer routes, then later a jet engine aircraft will gain the upperhand) I might be wrong with the 55 Min indication, I do not remember exactly. Although a Q400 can fly 4 hours as said on here few weeks ago it does hardly operate any of such routes due to jet being better and yes more comfortable then. However, on the average sector length of turboprop the Dash is more economical compared to an ATR72 - that of course includes all facts and technical advantages and advancements where Dash wins by far: it has some 16% higher capacity, needs less flying time, climbs faster hence is less on more fuel consuming low altitudes and so on.
Vase misljenje je poucno. Er Srbija kao deo vlasnistva Etihad Airways-a, je absolution realno. Standard usluga Etihada je neuporedivo sa bilo kojom avio kompanije u najvecem delu Evrope. I ako vrlo mlada avio kompanija ima vise najvisih priznanja iz vise vrsta usluga ove tako mlade, a tako renomirane kompanije. Logicno Etihada, koga Er Srbija treba da prati. Koga bi drugog u Etihad Group of Company?. A i van nje.
Nije mudro otkrivati iznova toplu vodu. Pogotovo
mladoj Srpskoj avio kompaniji koja ima nasledstvo jos od Aero Puta. Sto jeste impresivno duga istorija, ali ne previse mnogo od toga. To zivot i poslovanje svedoci.U istinskoj sam nadi i iscekivanju sa mnogim, da ce Er Srbija nastaviti zesci razvoj posle Belgrade Aviation Summit, mada ne previse spektakularnog,ali krucijalnog dogadjaja Srbije u ovoj oblasti do sada. Sto se tice regionalnog saobracaja, pristalica sam Kanadskog Bombardier - a, turbopropa. "C" klss prvenstveno.
Pred Bozicni Pozdrav iz Kraljeva.
Radovan +.
It says JU is setting standards what on short haul flights in Business Class possible is. The journalist says, he has not seen anything similar in the world on such a short flight. It is obvious that JU is hungry and it does everything to present itselves and the country on the international stage. The achievements are convincing and he hopes that the high level of service can be maintained for the future
The rewiew is on page 30,31 in the Dec-Jan edition
Relublic of Serbia with BEG 156 million
it should be 49:51, not 49:75
The bottom line. ATR is way cheaper per passenger on shorter routes, typically used by tprops.
ATRs are way more popular among customers and you can sell used ones more easily, for a relatively better price than a q400 of the same age.
Perfect for Alaska and Canada, but not for a typical European flights. In EU it is usually just few minutes faster than ATR, while devouring way more expensive European fuel.
Same thing with Wizz Air. If you are flying on one of their older A320s then the experience is pretty horrible. However, if you end up on one of their newer ones then it's a completely different story.
Ok, Serbian trains might be a joke but this is not the case elsewhere in Europe.
Itis so nice to reed your text about Air Serbia
in German magazine. Hopefully Serbian carrier will keep up momentum. And rising to higly recognized, up to medium-sized of 30+ aircrafts fleet. Time will proofing.
Greetings from Kraljevo.
Rodney
It is an fair comment of Anon 6:24 PM.
Stability of turboprops not comparable
Jet aircrafts!.
Rodney & Travellers.
Kraljevo - Sydney-Serbia-Sydney
The article is indeed excellent PR for JU, hope it will materialize for them too
Happy holidays fm a grey ZRH
Sice I have retired six years ago, half year I live in Homeland Australia, and second part in Fatherland Serbia. Vinter in Serbia, vinter in Aussiland, down under.
Most of as have to be PR of good will of cleer mind. For every good corse.
Keep fly, keep hig, keep confident. And happy too.
Rod. Kralkevo + Sydney