Good we are not in EU and can do this!

What a senseless decision.

I doubt Turkey would object to Air Serbia sending a daily A330 to IST if they were still flying this route.

What a joke really. Well, EU is still decades away it seems.

Vinci must be very happy. Imagine the cash the airport could have gotten from these A330 flights and most were scheduled as double daily!

They objected to Air Serbia getting slots at IST so I would not be so sure.

EU can do it as well. Turkey is not in the EU either.

Protectionism is never good for the citizens or the economy.

TK is dumping fares like crazy

from BEG
Bangkok 381 EUR
Dubai 229 EUR

I agree. Just goes to show that the Serbian state (no matter the party in charge) is the biggest enemy of Serbian people and economy.

Meanwhile there were Atlasglobal fares recently for 48 euros BEG-IST-BEG between April and June.

Here we go again....CAD is using it's position to fend off competition for another state interest company.
Vinci must be impressed.

Idiots. Turks will get their A330 once they block JU charter flight requests.

The story is that Serbian CAD issued them with permit but Air Serbia objected.

Be sure that Air Serbia asked them to. They didn't make that decision on their own.

Vinci is not yet the concessionaire. The contact is not signed. Once it is, the directorate's decisions may suddenly become different.

Either way it is fun to watch this "protection": JU quits IST and AUH - and then needs protection from TK? The only one who gets protected here is Etihad, but it will not help them because TK, EK and QR will massacre them anyway in this battle for transfer passengers.

Price dumping by TK in order to put all other regional airlines out of business is bad also.

^ And on top of that Atlasglobal is a full service airline. That's an amazing deal if you ask me.

As a newcomer I doubt it's easy for them to remain competitive against TK and Pegasus.

"Price dumping by TK is bad also."

Why should we care if Turkish taxpayers want to subsidize our flights?

Why would the Turks reject Serbian toyridt spending their money there?

Turkish taxpayers want to shut down all competing airlines in southeast Europe and Middle East so that everyone is forsed to connect via IST and them gain billions of Euros of revenue a year.

Good, they denied slots to AS in Istanbul without hesitation.

Not true. IST awarded nighttime slots to JU while they wanted daytime ones. Seems like Turks knew better as with the slots JU asked for most western European connections could not be made.

It's a shame because it would have increased passenger numbers quite a bit.

Because they have millions of other tourists who will spend just as much? Turkey is all the rage among Arabs this year and Europeans are slowly starting to return.

What is impressive is that on most days flights were supposed to operate double daily with A330. Is there really that much demand?

It awarded 2AM slots. What on earth would they with that?

Bas me zanima koliko je karata u prodaji po toj cijeni

Didn't Turkish CAD impound one of Jat's planes for like 10 years because of politics?

U teoriji....
Zelje su jedno, praksa nesto sasvim drugo

We can have our vacations to many other countries then.
I can have better time in Croatia, Greece, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Egypt!

Yes. It was YU-ANJ I believe.

Seems like it if they planned to fly so many flights. They also probably wanted to kill Atlasjet since they competed for transfers as well.

Yes there is. The flights are brimming with Turkish tourists and Serbian transfer passengers.

Just open the market. People and the economy will benefit much more.

On one hand you have Vucic hugging and kissing Erdogan every other week, on the other you have Serbian CAD denying an equipment upgrade to a Turkish airline between IST and BEG.

Turkish tourism is miles ahead of Croatia, Bulgaria or Montenegro.

Thankfully they can no longer block EU airlines otherwise they would. Remember when they used to block LCCs, Malev and others? It wasn't so long ago.

What they could do with the 2 AM slot? Do you mind checking JU's timetable to SKP, SKG, ATH, LCA, BEY...

+1

At the end of the day, a local company with over 1000 employees feeding 1000 families is more important then an extra 40 seats on a Turkish airline. Makes sense to me.

Yes especially since that local company with over 1000 employees feeding 1000 families flies to Turkey.

I see that the A330 was still not completely removed from the system meaning TK has not given up yet.

So next summer

BEG
6x New York with A330
2x Beijing via Prague with A330

ZAG
7x Dubai with 777-300ER
4x Toronto with 767-300 (Air Canada Rouge)
2x Toronto with A330-300 (Air Transat)
1x Seoul with 777

so ZAG 14 : BEG 8

Just checked KK website. There are absolutely no fares below 75 euro ONE WAY between April and June. On some days it goes to 135 euro.

TK return flights can be found for 110 euro at the moment. This is quite good as in 2017 the best deal in April-June was 150 euro, and in summer it was 170 euro.

For Turkish visitors to Serbia it's quite a different story: 200 euro is the best deal they can get on IST-BEG-IST this spring.

^ The 49 euro fare was a limited promo regarding KK. Tickets at those prices are no longer available.

Good for you. What's the score in winter? Also don't think Korean flies one weekly to Zagreb last time I checked ;)

I don't see a point of this comment especially since BEG is still light years ahead of ZAG in terms of destinations, airlines, flights and so on.

Dude I'd be OK with 140:8 if it means you finally get over that poor duckometry of yours.

What does this post have to do with the topic, anon 9:54AM?

If the bare survival of a company that employs 1000 people depends on whether TK will send A321 or A330 to BEG then I would say something is fundamentally wrong and unsustainable with that company.

It doesn't depend exclusively on the TK but it certainly has an impact. BTW TK is probably one of the most heavily subsidized airlines in the world, right up there with Emirates and Etihad.

Unfortunate. Would have been nice to see Air Serbia, Hainan and Turkish with A330s in BEG.

You can still catch their A330F in BEG each Friday ;)

This is why we need a free market economy.

Not to worry. There will be more widebodies in the future and the CAD won't be able to do much about it.

40 more passengers?

Difference is 620 seats weekly one way, so 1.240 return. So that is 65.000 more seats per year.

But much more is in cargo capacity as wide-body has much more cargo space than narrow-body

:(

Korean will fly 14 flights this season, so that is one flight in June-September high season.

In winter situation will be

BEG 5 (3x JFK and 2x PKG)
ZAG 5 (5x DBX)

Of course it has. Wide-body is not just about passengers capacity but huge increase in cargo capacity. So it is huge importance for airport to attract those planes.

And Turkish, now, will have to put that A330 somewhere else, as they have to find A321 for that route. I presume they will put it on Sarajevo, Skopje or Zagreb route instead of Belgrade, or even open Niš flights. And that is direct damage to Belgrade over competition made by Serbian government.

Technically BEG is much more than that if we include all the widebody cargo aircraft. Egyptair's A300F seems to be a regular. I see it every week.

why regulation is not so bad? Because when used in a right way, it doesn't allow "market" to rule all the way. It goes like this - there is a price war, one winner at the end, and prices go up again the same moment there is no competition. Just have a look at "free" aviation market in US....there are 4 big legacy airliners and plethora of small, "independent" ones, but they are just feeding the big ones. And then there are LC. On many routes there is no competition, thus airliners have their hands untight, and can do whatever they want (expel passengers from the plane by force among other things). In case of TK and JU > basic fairness in allowing simmilar conditions to operate can be only regulated, it will never happen by itself. Regardless of who actually flys on the route. TK is going to have its teeth broken soon (read Lufthansa). They do have dumping prices. You just don't see them in publicly availible search engines. Ask IATA agent about TK prices....and Etihad is the same...fare on some routes is as low as 35 € (and talking interconti here, not IST > EU).

ajde molim vas ljudi, pa kad je najavljen A330 onda ste brže bolje išli raditi istu ovu "statistiku" jer je bila u korist Beograda. O čemu sad pričate? 10 dana kasnije druga priča jer eto Zagreb ima više velikih mašina od Beograda? Nemojte bit takvi licemjeri, čemu to?!

Žao mi je zbog Beograda i Turkisha i onemogućavanja A330 u glavnom gradu Srbije.

Pozdrav iz Zagreba, peace and love!

@ AnonymousFebruary 6, 2018 at 10:21 AM
You do realize Turkish Airlines Cargo flies to Belgrade and Nis once per week each with A330F.

Zagreb ima masine. Beograd putnike. peace and love tebi.

TK has never sent its widebody to ZAG which it has to SKP or BEG so I doubt there is demand for such a jump especially since many airlines struggle in winter in ZAG.

I am not too worried about BEG. What matters is demand is there. This capacity will go to someone else so we might see bigger birds from KK or more flights from Pegasus.

To tell you the truth I do think it has more to do with Etihad than Air Serbia. I mean for sure Air Serbia requested for the permit to be revoked but I think they were acting in the interest of Etihad.

+1 Bor

They have the right to do it. Whether we like it or not is a different story.

From which date?

Tako je Anon10:27, mašine lete prazne u Zagreb :) Strašno koliko hejta možete dati :)

Yes that’s why females are warned that being gropped in public is normal and travel warning suggesting only travel if needed are in place. Turkey is way way ahead! Lol

LOL, by miles ahead you mean busier.
Yes, McDonalds is also busier than a good restaurant.
Turkey is a cheap destination for Arabs and Russians.

You can say whatever you want but Vucic did in 4 years for the aviation in Serbia more than others in decades ...

Gde sam rekao da lete prazne? Uporedi statistiku. Ali stvarno nemam nameru da ulazim u raspravu sa tobom. Kao sto kazes peace and love. Vazno da si izmerio ciji je veci :)

Turkey can only be compared to countries like Spain, Tunisia, Egypt etc. in terms of tourism, who invested a lot in mass tourism, not nice tourism countries like Croatia, Greece etc. And fading security concerns and ultra-cheap holiday opportunity combined with the dissatisfaction of service quality in EU holiday destinations during the couple years (due to the overcrowd) brought Turkey back to the game.

I think TK has sent A330s on occasion to Belgrade in the past and the CAD had no problem, but these were one offs. They have also sent wide bodies from time to time to Ljubljana, Podgorica, Skopje and Pristina.

Just because they can do something doesn't mean they should.

*niche tourism countries

Anon 10.27

Ne mora da znaci da lete prazne ali Beograd generalno ima vise letova, vecu ponudu i vise putnika.

Pogledaj samo kako U2 raste u Beogradu. Krecu sa svojom trecom destinacijom. Vecini Srba oni vise znace nego sirokotrupni avion iz Azije

Right, according to some people on here Croatia is the worlds number 1 tourist destination and no one comes close. Get real. You just said you are better than Turkey.

Pa nemoj si baš skakat u usta u istoj rečenici, jer ti upravo mjeriš čiji je veći - airport ;) toliko o tome.

Pa naravno da Beograd ima više putnika kada je to praktički jedina ZL u Republici Srbiji, a u Beogradu živi preko milijun i pol stanovnika.

Sa druge strane imaš Republiku Hrvatsku koja sa mrežom razvijenih ZL slabi centralni Zagreb. Samo Split i Dubrovnik u 2017. imaju preko 5 mil. putnika. Uz to, Zagreb kao grad nema ni milijun stanovnika.

Ima tu puno faktora, prije svega Zagreb opslužuju kvalitetniji legacy carrieri kojih još nema u Beg. Sa druge strane imamo Beograd sa relativno jakom domaćom aviokompanijom, velikom mrežom letova i prekooceanskom destinacijom. Plus LCC kojih u Zagrebu nema :)

Hajde da sacekamo da vidimo koga Vinci dovede u Beograd.

Ironically Turkish Airlines is the general sponsor of the EuroLeague Final Four which is being held in Belgrade this May.

OK Zagreb ima prednost u broju wide body letova ali je Beograd povezaniji jer ima letove do Pekinga I Njujorka dok ima I letove za Dubai istina sa fly Dubai ali su daily. Hocu reci da jedan Njujork ne moze da se poredi sa Dubai-em

It is not taxpayer's responsibility to feed those families, they should earn their money in an open and competitive market like everyone else.

Socialism has ruined this country/region beyond repair I am afraid.

yes but that has nothing to do with Serbia, Turkish Airlines are sponsors of EuroLeague, last final four in Istanbul was also sponsored by them

What is the main reason behind so many flights between IST and BEG? Is this normal demand from the market? Since Turkish, Pegasus and AtlasGlobal are all flying this route. Are most of the passengers Turkish tourists visiting Serbia or its more transfer passengers to other destinations?
I can understand for example SKP and PRN where Turkey has more influence, I'm trying to understand the spike in demand for this route. Thanks

Have you been at IST recently? It’s busy 24/7. Even TK can’t have all of its aircraft based there...

Aha, samo Air Serbia tu gadno kasni jer nema code-share sa ni jednim USA prijevoznikom. Da ima, to bio bio veliki win! Ovako sa Emiratesom možeš odletjeti iz Zagreba preko Dubaia doslovno gdje poželiš...

U kom svetu DBV ili PUY otimaju putnike Zagrebu kada oba aerodroma imaju mnogo drugih koji su blizi. Da se sutra zatvori PUY putnici bi pre leteli iz LJU, TRS ili RJK nego iz Zagreb. Isto i za DBV kome su OMO, SPU ili TIV znatno blizi.

Beograd sa druge strane ima TZL, BUD, TSR, INI... koji mu svi odvlace putnike tako da on ima zapravo mnogo vise direktne konkurencije nego ZAG.

A koje to kvalitetnije kompanije ima ZAG? Nadam se da ne pricas o BA cije je usluga postala gora od W6 i koji ima manje prostora za noge of FR.

Najveca prednost Beograda je stabilnija povezanost sa svetom jer se aerodrom ne uspava kada dodje oktobar.

Does anybody know how many people are there in Air Serbia after they transferred 340 employees to the Belgrade airport?

@ AnonymousFebruary 6, 2018 at 11:29 AM

Air Serbia od prosle godine ima interline sa Jet Blue. Mozes da kupis kartu preko JU sajta do svakog sela u USA.

Tourists. I don't know what happened but maybe since around a year and a half ago the number of Turkish tourists started growing rapidly. On Friday night you can hear more Turkish on the streets in Belgrade than Serbian. Same with Israeli and Greek tourists. I guess it's cheap for them and they don't need visas. That's why they come. A lot of them come for weekend break.

Hmm ali i iz Beograda mozes leteti bilo gde preko DXB. Cak Beograd ima let svaki dan tokom cele godine za Dubai.
JU ima interline sa B6 i AA tako da mozes presedati u JFK, JU cak prodaje letove na svom sajtu.

Actually Sloba did that.

Sloba couldn't do it when he was the product of the Socialist era. Titoism is the reason why we can't survive in a free market economy.

It really wouldn't surprise me. BEG has been one of Etihad's top performing routes for a while now. Naturally as they remain passive airlines such as TK, QR and EK/FZ will take away their marketshare.

Opet kruske i jabuke

How exactly was he a product of the socialist era?

Because he was the product of the policies made during that era. It's not like popped out of nowhere. That said, this is an aviation forum so there is not much need to get into details.

u realnom svijetu. Putnici ne bi letjeli prije iz Rijeke ili Trsta jer im se od tamo ne nudi ništa posebno, a da će ići u Ljubljanu, to je diskutabilno, do Zagreba im treba 30 minuta više autom. Isto tako, iz Pule u Zagreb dođeš za 100 kn autobusom...

Gravitacijsko područje ZL jest određeno sa nekoliko čimbenika, tu Zagrebu gravitiraju i Beč i Budimpešta i Ljubljana i Rijeka i Osijek i Pula i možemo reći Zadar. Dakle više nego što je to u slučaju Beograda.

O kvaliteti BA neću, ali činjenica je da se preko LHR otvara sa njima cijeli svijet. Dakle da, BA, KLM i Air France su sigurno kvalitetnije kompanije koje Beograd još (ZA SADA) nema. Btw BA nema manje prostora za noge od FR, to je sad sprdnja :)

Beograd isto tako ima sezonalnost, izraženu, kao cijeli Balkan i to je činjenica i na tome moraju svi raditi. Možda je ona nešto blaža, iskreno nisam pogledao statistiku u detalje pa ne mogu tvrditi.

Super je interline sa JetBlue. Bacih oko sad jer moram za Washington.

15.03. BEG-JFK-IAD 16h
26.03. IAD-JFK-BEG 16h30min
659 eur

sa druge strane na iste datume iz Zagreba sa Turkishem koji je bitno bolji od Air Serbie i JetBluea letim za 488 eur uz kraće trajanje leta....Ovime samo želim reći da bi deal sa Unitedom, AA ili Deltom bio bolji! i konekcije bi sigurno bile kraće :)

+1000000

Nasla se dva momka iz osnovne skole i raspravljaju o aviaciji...

Local company that feeds 1000 families is fed by 7mio people. It takes more than it gives.

What a dumb decision. I'm beyond words.

Croatia just like Italy, Greece, France are HIGHER quality tourist destinations than Turkey.
That is pretty simple to understand.
Turkey is a cheap mass market destination.
So HR is better, Turkey is busier.
Simple?

JU is connected to US, China & DXB, DOH, AUH, IKA throughout the whole year while ZAG is very seasonal. This is very important.

Što Etihad čeka sa pojačanjem svoje linije, u čemu je tačno njihov problem?

Israeli?? Did not know that. Also, do Turks really have better living standard than the Serbs? Greeks...yeah.
At any rate, Belgrade has great potential for establishing itself as a city break destination, you should be working more on attracting the western Europeans. Maybe you are? I was fascinated with Novo Sad and Belgrade last time I visited, which was not long ago.
This thing with TK A330 is so short-sided though.

Couldn't agree more.

Yes Israeli tourists were in the top 10 in Serbia last year based on tourist numbers (and that list involves countries like Bosnia and Austria which are mostly Serbs). That's why there are 3 airlines flying year round between Tel Aviv and Belgrade (2 are Israeli) but their visits mostly revolve around shopping. They have organized tours to go to shopping centers.

+1000000000

Edihad is the issue obviously.. Edihad could give a crap about BEG and theybare just looking out for themselves.. I think when Vinci takes over thi hs will be much different and BEG will see Turkish A330 and other wide-bodies.

In addtion, Edihad is the reason why Emirates have not started flights to BEG.

Edihad has one day flight to BEG with A320 and they jave no shame to dictate about all of this.. what a joke. they should have started wide body service long time ago to BEG.

That's what we get for giving anything to Arabs. Not a single thing out of Etihad's interest can happen in BEG now. The most pathetic part is that instead of actually increasing capacity and competing with others, they choose to sabotage TK over ASL. Can't wait for Vinci to take over the airport and remind them where their line of influence ends.

Good? Where is the "good" part in losing potential 60k passengers in order to protect an airline which doesn't even fly to IST anymore (!!!), and it's 49% owner which doesn't seem to care enough to increase capacity and compete so instead they do this? The actual losers here unfortunately are the passengers and BEG.

Usually there would really not be that much demand.

But with TK's current extreme price dumping regarding transfers / look at long haul routes starting at 250 EUR they artificially are creating a very large demand out of BEG.

Sure. Because there is no demand 3 airlines fly to Belgrade and TK wanted to fly double daily on most days A330a. LOL troll.

Ah yes sure.

So with IST 200 EUR return and long haul 600-900 EUR which would be normal you still think that there would be same number of seats BEG-IST?? Yes very much so according to you I guess.

So - who is the troll here? LOL!!

Of course there are no Turks traveling to Serbia. It is probably a good will gesture that 3 Turkish airlines fly to Serbia, that there were over 99,000 Turks in Serbia. It's all fake.

Sad ja treba da objasnjavam da su neki od tih novih trznih centara u BGD u izraelskim rukama i da prave sebi promet. Tako se to radi,

Da li si ti ikada bio u Turskoj? Jadnicak. Od najelitnijih hotela
do najjeftinijeg smestaja. Aerodrom u Antaliji sam hendluje dva puta vise gostiju od svih aerodroma u Kroejshi i imaju razrudjeniju obalu od vase.

Hmm bas ce neko iz BUD da ide za ZAG da bi leteo, da ne spominem to sto je udaljenost oko 350 km (dakle kao Beograd). Uz sve to leteti iz Budimpeste je jeftinije i ima vise izbora.

A da se sutra zatvore DBV ili PUY te aviokompanije bi se preusmerile na mnogo blize aerodrome od zagreba.

Pula-Rijeka 103 km
Pula-Rijeka 120 km
Pula-Ljubljana 203 km
Pula-Zagreb 268 km

Dakle svako ko leti za Pulu bi pre leteo za RJK ili Trst nego za zagreb tako da na kraju krajeva Zagreb ne pokriva ovu zonu. Isti princip i sa Dubrovnikom.

Iz tog razloga Beograd ima znatno vecu konkurenciju od obliznjih aerodroma i pored svega toga opstaje na trzistu.

Belgrade-Istanbul is around 01.20 flight time so €200 seems pretty ok as a price, even quite pricey.

How about you actually go to Turkey and then we can speak. Croatia is still years behind France and others which you can see from AF adding the least flights to DBV from all new routes.

Yes and No. Don't be so sure. Airport concessionaire will indeed take after the interest of the major airline/customer at any given airport. OU is being "managed" in a similar way by ZAIC at ZAG: no LCCs to ensure OU's network primacy (read "controlled" protection), while on the other hand, other legacies are being invited to create "just about right amount" of competition and not let OU "sleep" and get lazy with route development.
ASL and BEG grew by 30% in 2014. To me, it's already a great success that the airport managed to maintain "organic" annual growth of 5% on average every year since. You win some, you loose some - keep what you have, be happy and don't be unrealistic/greedy.

Ne govorite glupoti.

Beograd u okolici ima Budimpeštu, Tuzlu, Temišvar i Sofiju koje mu odvlače putnike.

U istom krugu od 400 km Zagreb ima Beč, Budimpeštu, Veneciju, Graz, Ljubljanu, Bratislavu, Beograd, Trst, Treviso, Zadar, Pulu i Split koje imaju ogromna broj linija i odvlače gro putnika. Neusporediva je količina aerodroma koje odvlače putnike Zagrebu nego Beogradu.

They also sent A330 to Zagreb on several occasions. So, what's your point?

by flying A330 TK is aiming to kill ANY competition on that route. They work in cohorte with airport and Turkey in general. I told you, its like in case of the "Emirati" airlines...there is always some bigger game behind...

Are you the police? Am I not allowed to make a comment. As for Zagreb I honestly don't recall them sending an A330 ever.

this discussion is pointless guys. However, TK did send A330-300 to ZAG once in June, 2014. It carried a larger group of asian tourists.

Reasonable and just decision. Belgrade already has Hainan A330, Air Serbia A330 and Turkish A330 Cargo. One more A330 would be too much of the same type. If TK decided to mix it up a send A340 or Boeing 777 outcome could have been different.

"AnonymousFebruary 6, 2018 at 10:39 AM
You can say whatever you want but Vucic did in 4 years for the aviation in Serbia more than others in decades ..."

You need to wake up and get some professional help.

Oni ne znaju gde se nalaze. Vidi samo Flyertalk forume o Etihadovim merama štednje... Potpuno su osakatili connectivity iz Beograda za ceo Daleki Istok i nikoga nije briga. Niko više ne putuje za Japan, Kinu i Koreju preko njih, jer putovanje na nazad traje 30+ sati.

haha, good one :)

realistically Edihad, Qatar, Turkish and Aeroflot should all send A330s to BEG!

Air Canada B787-8 from Toronto
ANA B772 from Osaka
United B767-4 from Chicago

and.......

ok, that's it for now

Why stop now?

A kako u krugu od 400 km od Zagreba je BEG, a 400 km od BEG nisi nabrojao ZAG?

Realistically? Hahahahaha...

Zato što zanemarivo malo putnika putuje iz Beograda preko Zagreba, dok je situacija bitno veća obrnuto.

This was not about Israeli or Turkish tourists but about an expected and huge influx of Iranian, Chinese and Indian tourists to who visas were recently opened.

Turkish Airlines invested more than other Airlines in Serbia in Sales, Marketing, Fame trips from all over the World to Serbia and also they do more than other Airlines. That are the facts! CI from Vienna

How funny to call controlled protection. There is no point in controlling competition and preventing people to fly cheaper. Old fashioned socialist thinking

How much would they pay to airport if they were operating with wide body? Can someone calculate how much airport is losing because of this decision? How much would it contribute to the coming of tourists and businessmen to Serbia?

How much extra would they pay to the airport for operating wide body?