Air Serbia flights to Toronto "in 2019 or 2020"


Services between Serbia and Canada are expected to resume either next year or in 2020 with both sides working on the introduction of flights between Belgrade and Toronto. The Canadian Ambassador to Serbia, Kati Csaba, said last week, "The Air Service Agreement between Serbia and Canada has finally been signed. This agreement allows us to advance the process of launching flights between Belgrade and Toronto. The Embassy is in talks with Air Serbia so we can gauge their interest and we believe the route has great potential". She added, "There is a large Serbian diaspora in Canada, but these flights would also be very useful for the business community. A final decision will be made by Air Serbia, however, it takes between four to six months for the entire process to be completed upon receiving a permit. It is still possible for these flights to be launched in 2019, but 2020 is more realistic".

Toronto's Pearson Airport confirmed earlier this year that it held talks with Air Serbia over the resumption of flights between Belgrade and Canada's largest city. "We will continue to work with Air Serbia to find an opportunity to add Toronto Pearson as one of their newest travel destinations", a spokesman for the Greater Toronto Airports Authority said. The Serbian government noted last year that Air Serbia was considering Toronto as its second long haul route after New York. At the time, it said that preparations for the new service were underway and in the advanced planning stages, however, it emphasised that there was still a lot of work to be done concerning the Air Service Agreement, which has since been dealt with.

Late last year, Air Serbia noted, "We are working on a complete analysis and we are seriously considering all aspects. A final decision on the potential introduction of a new transcontinental service will be made in the coming period. It is a complex project which takes several months and does not depend solely on us, but also on regulatory authorities since all procedures must be harmonised with the laws and regulations of the country we fly to". Flights between Serbia and Canada were last operated a decade ago by leisure carrier Skyservice, which has since gone bankrupt. During the 1970s and 1980s, JAT Yugoslav Airlines maintained services from Belgrade to Toronto and Montreal. Belgrade Airport recently said it hopes "to soon make announcements regarding the introduction of nonstop services to several unserved destinations", among which it cited a point in Canada.

Comments

  1. They should really capitalize on the opportunity that Austrian has suspended flights to Toronto. This route was used by many from the Balkans.

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    1. Odakle takva vest? Austrian povećava broj letova za toronto na 5 nedeljno umesto 3.

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    2. Austrian will discontinue flights between Vienna and Toronto as of April 2019.

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    3. Air Canada is stepping in from what I remember.

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    4. To nije istina , u vestima od CEO Austrian od 08 Septembra leti se 5 puta do Toronta.

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    5. Yes, they are suspending the route from April

      https://www.austrianairlines.ag/Press/PressReleases/Press/2018/10/058.aspx?sc_lang=en&mode=%7B30999B4B-42D0-45A6-B671-FE5E3CB68ED8%7D

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    6. ... but will start Montreal, in the same time Air Canada is starting Toronto with OS codesharing. Its a deal between OS and AC.

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    7. Air Canada and the Lufthansa Group (including Austrian) are joint venture partners, they are sharing the revenue of their transatlantic business. And Austrians is only moving capacity to another airport (Montreal), while Air Canada will take over the route between Vienna and Toronto

      Mihael

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    8. If OS - with VIE huge base and it being a centre of business/commerce - couldn;t make this highly seasonal route work, then how on God's earth can JU with it's go-alone strategy make it work ?

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    9. OS had to rely only on revenues from ticket sales to cover its expenses.
      JU can rely to the taxpayers as well to flyers.
      You can't lose, unless you are a taxpayer of course...

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    10. Who said OS failed? They are letting AC fly the route. OS is not competitive with its archaic trashy 763

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    11. OS have not enough aircarfts to operate both Montreal and Toronto, AC choose Toronto out of the two

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    12. The OS' boeings 767 may be 20 years old, but inside they dont look trashy. Furthermore, I prefer its 2-3-2 configurtation than a boeing 777 3-4-3

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    13. They have 30' seatpitch which is horrible. At least JU has 32' so they are more comfortable.

      I agree with 3-4-3, the slave ship configuration is the worst.

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    14. What are you guys talking about?

      1. From experience, OS has these extra slim seats so you don't feel the 2 inch less. The width of the thin seats compensate for it.

      2. All 763s from OS have a brand new and very modern interior inside. And their C class is amongst the best. Their catering with live do&co chef cooking in board has even been voted the best on the world.

      3. OS used to fly 5 to 6 times pw to Toronto. OS and AC negotiated a share of revenue and a full codeshare on all N.A. flights. From 5pw they will fly 14pw between VIE and Canada, each 7 times pw to Toronto and Montreal. Both routes can be booked via both airline's booking engines. It can hardly be called a fail or a reduction!

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  2. They delay it each year.

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  3. They announced New York in November for launch in June, so I think it is already too late for YYZ in 2019.

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    Replies
    1. Yes but New York sales started in February. So like the ambassador said, 2019 is still possible.

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    2. What amazes me is that it took just two years for JFK to be lunched, whic was the project from "scratch" for ASL...but then when they need to launch another destination it is taking it them waaaaaay to long in my opinion. I'm personally sad and disappointed.

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    3. @ anonymous 12,53

      technically, the 2nd destination, lets go with YYZ, is going to be from 'scratch'.

      agreements need to be signed and ratified, an aircraft has to be sourced, additional crew need to be trained and Canada is more restrictive of air carriers than the US.

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  4. BEG passengers can easily be transfered to YYZ via ZAG (7pw from this summer). And it is very likely that ACA will introduce year round operations in 1-2 years, so there is no need for direct BEG flights.

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    1. They can't because no one would be interested in purchasing two tickets and having the option to fly only in peak summer months. Unlike Zagreb passengers to New York who can fly on a single Air Serbia ticket to the US by transferring through Belgrade 6 times per week in summer, with options in winter too.

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    2. They can, if they had good connection time time and price offer, they will fly via ZAG, why not.

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    3. Sa ružom ne bi putovao ni letom od 2 sata letom a kamoli 9 . Ne daj samo Bože da sa tim starim avionima da počnu da lete za BEG.

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    4. Because they would have to purchase TWO tickets which is expensive. How don't you get it?

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    5. I said "if they had good connection time and price offer" they will purchase TWO tickets and fly via ZAG. I got it, no hard feeling it is monday morning.

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    6. I agree it's not an option. You have to purchase two tickets, which would also mean having to actually go through customs when you land in Zagreb, then go and collect your bag, then go to check in again... and on top of that it would be very expensive because it would be two tickets.

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    7. "if they had good connection time and price offer" they will purchase TWO tickets

      If you knew the basics of aviation, you would know that travelling on two tickets, unless it's a low cost airline, is never going to result in a "good price offer".

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    8. I know the basics of aviation, and few times, I personally used to fly with 2 separate tickets. Usually it is not the best offer but from BEG you dont have a lot of options, LH is not so cheap. In that way I can say, sometime would be better to travel via ZAG or BUD, even if you come with bus, it is not so far.

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    9. Lot of people will loose few hours to spare 100 euros

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    10. There are multiple options with Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, LOT, Air Serbia via Stockholm, Amsterdam and London thanks to interline with AC etc.

      I don't think people would want to go on a bus for several hours and wait at the boarder for several hours in summer after a 9 hour flight.

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    11. I don't understand what crap people are writing here, but it is comical to read ... JU and AC have now for many years, had an SPA in place that allows travellers to purchase "two" tickets in "one" through fare via several points in Europe ... adding ZAG would simply be an extension of the existing agreement. There are no probs or issues as people have written above .... you are a transiting passenger with baggage that is checked through. This concept isn;t new and people have been using this concept and service between JU and AC now for many years...

      To the misinformed, naive or just plain ignorant - please don;t write rubbish knowing it to be so... and if you don;t know or are not sure, then best you abstain from writing altogether

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    12. ^ There is no option to buy an Air Serbia and Air Canada Rouge ticket from Belgrade via Zagreb. Check it yourself. SPA's are applied on particular routes, not network wide. It seems you are misinformed.

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    13. Why would they even bother for 3 months in a year?

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    14. But if there was an SPA in place, then anon at 9.23 would be right ... BTW, SPA's can be applied in any variety of ways - incl network wide ... it simply depends on what sort of bilateral deal airlines do, or in the case of the alliances, it depends on what multilateral deal they do between each other. There is no 1 standard that applies nowadays

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    15. This Discussions is pointless because no one would fly via ZAG on Rouge when there are much better options with nicer airports and connections on AC mainline.

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    16. Lufthansa has very competitive pricing between Belgrade and Toronto. I picked two random dates in July 2019 for a return ticket which is 569 euros. Another good option being offered in Air France/KLM - codeshare with Air Serbia from Paris/Amsterdam. All of these tickets are under 600 euros in the busiest part of the year.

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    17. In this case we have huge difference between passengers from Croatia flying via BEG to JFK and passengers from Serbia flying hypothetically via ZAG to YYZ.

      JU flies to ZAG 10 pw and can offer 1 ticket to JFK
      OU does not fly to BEG at all and can offer nothing as well as AC for passengers from Serbia from ZAG

      Important to say passengers from Serbia have very good connections to YYZ with many other airlines which actually do offer to fly on 1 ticket from BEG - the same as JU offers to JFK for passengers from Croatia and many other countries where JU flies to.

      Simple as that.

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    18. How exactly are people from BEG limited when flying to YYZ? There is TK, LO, AF, KL, LH, OS,LX... plus interline possibilities between JU and AC.

      Fares are quite low and don't think many bother going to BUD anymore to catch a flight. That was popular before deregulation.

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    19. Uh koja histerija i drama da netko iz Srbije nebi slučajno poletio preko ZAG interkontinentalnom linijom!! LOL

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    20. As basically all above agree, the Rouge product is inferior in terms of hard product and is used by Canadians mostly P2P to ZAG. The daily flights to ZAG cater for point to point demand and many others transfer in FRA, ZRH, VIE, AMS, CDG, LHR or WAW.

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    21. Not about hysteria, it's about common sense. But I do remember hysteria when someone said there were Croatian passengers flying between New York and Belgrade on Air Serbia. I also remember hysteria by one member after someone posted photo of an Air Serbia billboard at Zagreb Airport advertising its New York flights and called it "a provocation" LOL.

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    22. Provocation! LOL! :-))))) ahahah

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    23. Air Canada Rouge is the inferior product of Air Canada just like flydubai is to Emirates. This is a common practice in most airlines.
      JOON is now the cheaper version of Air France too.

      Air Srbija should launch JU Express and change all the ATR fleet to Air Serbia Regional Express just like Iberia did with Nostrum.

      Here are some efficient, good names to represent the regional product:

      Air Serbia Regional Express
      Air Serbia Touch
      Serbia Connect
      Serbian Regional Airways
      Serbian Air Transport

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    24. @10.18? Is the collective agreement ( if they have one) at JU so expensive that a product change to lower costs in a subsidiary would have such an impact on costs?

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  5. Nadam se da ce linija krenuti sledece god. i da ce vest objaviti kad vansi preuzme aerodrom. Pitanje je medjutim koja ce biti trca dugolinijska destinacija,jer ne verujem da ce do toronta leteti 5-6 puta. Jedva cekam dolazak drugog A330,srecno AS

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  6. Just what the airline needs - another loss making long haul route.

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    1. Why your concern ? The Govt will cover any losses, so no issue at all. My only question with all of this - when is the EU going to crack down on all this unfair and blatant state aid ?

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    2. The EU has had no concerns so far. The aid is being given in such a way that it doesn't break any rules. It was originally supplied as part of the government's investment agreement with Etihad and now through a subsidy for tourism development, which is allowed.

      I'm wondering when the EU will crackdown on the state aid keeping Alitalia alive?

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    3. When they'll close down Croatia's javno oglasavanje, Emirates subsidies and Wizz Air PSO routes around the Balkans...oh, and the 900 million Euros Alitalia received this year.

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    4. Very good anon 09:36

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    5. Well just because Aliatlia gets (illegal) subsidies, like what they are currently doing with their state budget, does not make it legal or justifies that action for others. But obviously this thinking is deeply rooted in the Balkan mentality. If someone does sth against the law- great, I can steal and do it as well :)

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    6. PSO is very defined and any airline must have same right to get this by open tender and same condition to all candidates. In case of Air Serbia subvention that is like this as those money is dedicated to just one airline without any tender and possibility that any other carrier could participate ind this subvention. That is illegal and for sure will be obstacle in Serbia entrance in EU negotiation.

      Same thing is "udruženo oglašavanje", tender, conditions, all candidates same conditions, and that is why 99,9% of that money was win by foreign companies not Croatia Airlines. In Serbia just Air Serbia gets money not a single one other airline. Unlike in Croatia where that money goes mostly to noncroatian airlines.

      Alitalia help is not illegal. You can do restructuring once in 10 years, but in same time you must have other cuts and measures which must be confirmed by EU bodies. Short loan (like Air Berlin one from Germany and this last one to Alitalia) can be done to help basic operations but must be defined as short one and with 100% sure plan that this money will be put back to budget (when they sold Air Berlin this 150 million was put back to budget, same thing will be with Alitalia when company will be sold).

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    7. Very wrong

      The help of GoS is also not illegal, it was approved by EU.

      "Vlada Srbije može jedino kad dobije dozvolu Evropske komisije, što je dobila za prve tri godine poslovanja Air Srbije. Sada će, nemamo zvanične potvrde za to, ali verovatno će hteti ući u nove pregovore i onda će i država Srbija morati da se bori pred EK za nastavak subvencija", kaže Vojinović.

      http://balkans.aljazeera.net/vijesti/avijacija-u-regiji-svi-u-zraku-samo-bih-prikovana-za-zemlju

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    8. If we were to apply what's 'legal' and do it retroactively, we would ground 99% of airlines today and first would be LH, AF, KL, BA... What's legal is not always necessary.

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    9. Why? LH, AF, KL, BA and others got subsidies at a time the aviation Market was regulated heavily and only national carriers existed. Transport Ministers met and defined that JAT may fly 2 flights a day and LH 2 flights a day. At that time all airlines were state owned and financed by them. With the DEREGULATION in aviation this came to an end. So at that time many airlines and especially the above were privatised and got no state money. SO retroactively means nothing without the context.

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    10. So when was the day that 'deregulation' happened? Do you have an exact date?

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    11. Information that serbian subvention is legal is not true. And it is not firt time they lie, isn't it.

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    12. To the utopian anonymous: nothing has changed. The powerful ones are the ones shaping the rules of the game as they always did. The same way the small ones with little influence are the ones that suffer and over who the 'rule of law' is stringently exercised. Anybody forgot that AA was brought back from the dead few years ago with public money? The same ones cry about EK?

      So dear anonymous, sorry to break your illusions. Rules and covers change but their impetus and goals do not. It is therefore the duty of any government to protect and promote the interests of their companies as much they can and honestly, Serbia could do a much better job at it, subsidies regardless.

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  7. They should be more thinking about Shanghai.

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    1. If JU starts a 2nd long haul route they must get a 2nd long haul aircraft. In this case they should start immediately a 2nd new long haul route to have 3 long haul routes in total with 2 aircrafts!

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    2. ...why? Does Shanghai have 100k people from the Ex-YU region like the Toronto area does?

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  8. It will further increase the profitability!

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  9. Why is there no interest of foreign airlines to start long haul flights to Serbia?

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    Replies
    1. Because they don't get money from the tourism board.

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    2. Because there is not enough demand - one and the only truth.

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    3. because it would never be profitable...even not for 8 Months of the year.

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    4. Actually, whole ex-yu market is quite problematic for long haul so therefore we see here foreign airlines being sponsored to fly to Croatia and only during the summer months - exception is KE that flies to ZAG year round but via ZRH.

      Serbia is sponsoring year round flights to JFK and lost flight to PEK

      All in all mrka kapa

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    5. One of the reasons why long-haul is limited from BEG is because other airlines are offering more flexibility with smaller planes and more frequencies.

      To the east you have 28x to Moscow on JU/SU, 14 on TK, daily on Qatar, five weekly on FZ and up to double daily on EY.

      To the west you have 14 on AZ/JU to FCO, 19x to VIE on OS, 12x to WAW on LO, 35 weekly on LH to FRA and MUC, up to 16 weekly on LX, 14x to CDG on JU/AF and 15 to AMS on JU/Transavia.

      So if someone was looking at long-haul flights out of BEG they would be able to operate maximum two weekly flights. How could they compete against all that? They would end up butchered the same way Hainan was.

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    6. haha above, get over it, EK, AC, TS and KE are not sponsored by anyone and have extremely good loads on the seasonal flights. Hainan was also sponsored, but unfortunately only one year via PRG ;)

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    7. Minister for tourism said they get money.

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    8. Small correction, LX will be 21 next summer. JU will have 17 flights.

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    9. @10:05- right- but exactly the same for ZAG.

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    10. Not sponsored?

      Purger

      „Udruženo oglašavanje“ je jedan od onih modela koji su rastezanje propisa Europske unije i tu ste u pravu. Nemojmo se zavaravati, tako je. I na summitu u Beogradu sam jasno rekao „hajde da budemo pošteni, to su subvencije“. I jesu. Legalne, bolje rečeno polulegalne subvencije.

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  10. It would be interesting to see in summer 2019

    YU-ARA 6 pw JFK
    YU-ARB 3 pw YYZ , 2 pw PVG

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    Replies
    1. It could be interesting :)

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    2. yeah they can't make JFK work but will succeed with PVG...sure

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    3. With 6 weekly flights in summer, I would say they are making it work.

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    4. Making it work means at the very least covering their expences.
      If you are willing to lose your dirt you can fly a route not 6 but even 26 times a week
      But that won't mean "you are making it work".

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    5. If JFK is problematic for JU it would not be upgraded to 6 pw. That is the time of the year when they actually make the money on that route.

      The problem is only during the winter and it was obviously shown by decreasing JFK to 2 pw.

      Therefore frequency of flying could give us quite clear picture about profitability and seasonality of that route.

      No need for exaggeration

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    6. @ Nebojsa

      I think that would be a good move when introducing the 2nd A330. YYZ alone wouldn't be able to justify another widebody. On a recent SU flight I had, dozens of pax were connecting to PVG, it seemed like half the plane.


      @ anonymous 09,56


      I think what the person was trying to say is that JU have seen what is working and what is not, has been able to get decent loads to justify the increase from 5 to 6 p/w during the peak season. They also saw that 3 p/w wasnt working the entire winter season, however boosted it to 4 p/w where possible, 3 p/w on average and 2 p/w when the season is dead. All TATL carriers see changes to frequencies over the year so JU is not exception.

      JU seem to have JFK stable, know what it can do on it, and have established it self, while boosting loads. This summer seems like they did really well as JFK will again be 6 p/w from June 2019.

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  11. How long did it take to update and sign ASA for Skyservice and how long this time? Dates please, thank you.

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    Replies
    1. I don't understand your question. ASA was drafted in December 2006 but came into effect with its signing this May. The deal was only provisionally applied over the past 10 yrs and has now been updated.

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    2. Thanks, Air Serbia could have proceeded without waiting for the update then. It seems Air Serbia was not in a rush to start at all, but signing of the ASA somehow pops up as an excuse for the delay. Air Serbia probably has other reasons not to rush with introduction, commercial or not.

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  12. Very nice photo of YU-ARA

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  13. YZ would do well even up to 4 flights a week summer time.

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    Replies
    1. *sorry meant YYZ.

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    2. I would even say daily from June-September and 10 weekly in 2020.

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    3. For starters JU should launch 3 weekly in summer season, and 2 weekly in winter.

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    4. Regardless of Toronto, their usage of widebodies must become far more efficient during the winter.

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    5. @ anonymous 11,09

      JU do have options but I think they were quite limited by EY. More and more of people from our region are going to exotic places such as Thailand, Sri Lanka, India, Zanzibar, Maldives, I find it hard to believe that JU couldn't make 1 destination in any of these countries a seasonal charter, unless it wasn't convenient for EY as it means bypassing AUH.

      Or rather than EY increasing BEG to double daily, have JU use the A330 where possible to boost capacity and frequency. JU did have some decent loads before closing the route, and in the mean time some factors have changed ie Indians no longer needing visas for Serbia, boost in tourists to the Balkans, more agencies offering trips to the Balkans, more ex-YU products available in stores throughout the UAE.

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  14. I hope this materializes. It would be fantastic to finally be linked with Canada.

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  15. Good luck Air Serbia :)

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    Replies
    1. Luck is the ony think that can help them.

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  16. A second long haul route for Air Serbia will significantly increase costs. Apart from leasing a second plane, any long-haul expansion should be followed with the strengthening of the regional network. That will also mean that they would have to expand the regional fleet. So it will be an expensive exercise.

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    Replies
    1. With smart planning and aircraft utilization, the route could turn a profit in a year or two. They have much more experience now after JFK.

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    2. Is JFK really profitable? Do the slots belong to EY or did JU buy them alone?

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    3. Just for the fame :) Who cares about money?

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    4. For the fame? You mean that JFK is flown because of prestige and national pride?

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    5. No of course not. It is flown because of the huge high yield demand year round which make a subfleet with one AC sustainable. It earns so much money during the summer, that it can rest in Winter bathing in the money it has earnerd with those high yield business tickets.

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    6. I don't see why it concerns you much. Also I don't see the point of answering to a person whose sarcastic comment obviously agrees with your viewpoint.

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    7. @ anonymous 11,10

      adding regional capacity isn't the issue. JU could do that by introducing another 2 banks. It doesn't take 6 hours to complete regional rotations that JU is doing. As an example, this morning JU between 6am and 12 noon used the ATR's for PRG, VIE, BNX, LJU, ZAG and TGD. An ATR should not be kept 6 hours for a rotation that can be done in 3. This mornings BNX and TGD rotations is an example of what I'm talking about.

      Also, leasing additional ATR's isn't that expensive and JU wouldn't have issues in adding additional capacity there. JU has demand for them, they just haven't actively worked on what to do with their regional fleet like they said they would 4 years ago.

      @ anonymous 11,40


      I think JFK is making money for them, however the question should be is the A330 making JU money, which overall I don't think it is.

      Delete
  17. They really need to join one of the three major alliances if they want more North America flyers and destinations.

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    1. One world would be the best option. Qatar Airways is leaving the alliance next year so it wouldn't be problematic for Etihad. There are no one world members in the Balkan region either.

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    2. Any alliance would be more than welcome. In that way JU would widen network and more important get access to more business class travellers willing to pay premium prices.

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    3. @ anonymous 12,06

      And from what do you think JU is well suited for one world? JU has 0 partners in one world.

      Sky Team would work a lot better as they fly to many Sky Team hubs (CDG, AMS, SVO, FCO, JFK, PRG, OTP, BEY) and code share with many Sky Team partners (AF, KL, RO, UX, SU) and that cooperation would be boosted with joining Sky Team. On top of that, JU replacing the Etihad Guest program with Flying Blue FF program would make it a perfect match.

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  18. Country prestige comes at a cost :)

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    Replies
    1. Some others don't have even that

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  19. Well maybe they are delaying the introduction precisely because they are looking for a time when it is best to launch the route without hurting their finances.

    On top of that it is more than obvious that no one is forcing them to introduce flights and they can decide on their own, despite the constant mantra some spill here.

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    Replies
    1. with the fuel costs up and on the rise, it is better to wait for them to go over 100$ a barrel.

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    2. Glrivo je sve jeftinije, pogotovo u Americi, AS ga dobija skoro 35% jeftinije u JFK nego u BEG tako da to je to ludost šta ti pričaš .

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    3. 35%? lol
      Odakle čupaš te cifre? Jos pored toga sto je cak i cena goriva bila deo ugovora o preuzimanju jata od strane etihada?

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  20. Powerful photo for a powerful legacy. JU is legendary 91 years later..

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  21. They eihter have some ultra long range narrowbody that can reach YYZ or we will pay again through taxes for another loss making service.

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  22. odrzavanje ovog airbus330 aviona je veoma skupo,pitanje je koliko i dali uopce je ova aviolinija rentabilna-profitabilna za Air Serbia.

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    Replies
    1. Vidim da se brinu poreski obveznici drugih država. Dirljivo.

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  23. najbolje avio gume tipa Bridgestone Japan 1050×395R16 za avion airbus 330 Air Serbia su veoma skupe preko 20000 eura za jednu a ima ih 8 plus dve manje napred dok americke GoodYear i Michelin su malo jeftinije.
    najbolji i najeftiniji avion za odrzavanje je McDonnell Douglas MD95(Boeing717-200) i Boeing737-300
    to je cjena samo za gume a za ostalo je puno vise.

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    Replies
    1. Koje gume koristi ASL?

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    2. one koje Rukovoditelj servisa ih nabavi u tenderskom postupku

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