wow if this happens traffic could explode in ZAG and SPU.

This would kill OU though. Maybe they would encourage them to launch a new destination

Very good news, it seems that ZAG is on the right path.

That's their problem. They had years to become competitive and offer decent prices. For the basic service they offer their fares are way too high.

Bravo Hrvatska!

I'm sure the ministry would protect them from ZAG somehow.

It seems like Ryanair is negotiating directly with the government about potential subsidies for ZAG and/or SPU.

Good news for the public but bad news for Croatia Airlines. They have already been squeezed on the coast, now Zagreb.

TAV fingerprints all over again.

OU flights are much cheaper then Ryanair, once you add all the extras. You either pay up- front or at the airport. Same with easyjet.

ZAG needs extra revenue.

Bad news for OU

It would be fantastic for Ryan to base a plane in ZAG.

Very interesting and several interesting combinations.

If Ryan launches flights to Split (and not Zagreb) they might be obligated to fly year-round in return for subsidies. Then I foresee Split becoming Croatia's number 1 airport.

As for Zagreb it would be great for passenger numbers. I also assume they would fly year-round. I would love to see them start Frankfurt - Zagreb and break up the Lufthansa/Croatia duopoly.

I always thought Eurowings would be the one to do that in ZAG.

+1

How many people will lose their job because of the ZAD closure? :(

On the other hand, just two days ago, ZAG CEO Freon said in Split that LCC are avoiding (still) the airport because of the fees. So how come they are negotiating now?

Yeah but only if you need the extras

Ne vidim poantu u razgovorima Ryana s vladom.....
Zasto Ryan uopce prica s vladom?
Ryan, ako ima interesa, nema potreba s vladom uopce komunicirati glede uspostave linija s SPU ili ZAG ili bilo kojim drugim aerodromom u HR.

Sve mi lici kako netko zeli napumpati brojke mojim novcem....

Well read what the article says: "The development comes just weeks following reports that Zagreb Airport's operator requested for the Croatian government to lower its annual concession fee. The operator argues that as a result of the concession fee, it was forced to increase its charges, which has in turn deterred low cost airlines from flying to Zagreb. This winter season, only one low cost carrier, Eurowings, will maintain services to the Croatian capital."

Maybe it means government will free them of concession fee. Also it seems Ryan is negotiating with the government, not airport.

"Ryanair has held positive discussions with the Minister regarding longer term traffic growth and route development at its existing Croatian airports as well as potential new airports like Zagreb and Split".

Does this mean Split has changed it's policy and will support Ryan's flights? If this happen ZAD can close it's doors

LH will not stay idle here

For P2P passengers on flights under 2 hours, which is the majority of flights within Europe, I really don't think passengers require too many extras.

If talks are successful, what could be their potential destinations from ZAG?

Zagreb definitely needs more low cost airlines.

But they are introducing 8 new routes to ZAD.

Did they have Croatian cabin crew stationed in Zadar?

London, Frankfurt, Paris.

CIA, MAD, STN, MAN, SOF, FRA, SXF

Cheaper than Ryan??????? Do you realize that not everybody travels with 40kg of luggage, and not everybody needs priority, and not everybody cares about choosing the seat? OU is more expansive. Do you guys fly with Ryan?

No way FRA.

Who cares.

And?

Why not?

BUD :D

You are talking like LH only wants to protect ZAG. It seems like LH is ONLY interested in ZAG. They don't care about ZAG, dude.

SOF? hahah fill this huge plane on ZAG SOF lol

And here I was told that ZAG does not need ultra LCCs and that the general travel public will never fly these airlines from Zagreb.

If they come to Zagreb it will really impact Ljubljana negatively.

LJU too.

2-3pw, why not

I don't see the government's strategy. I'm all for LCCs coming to Zagreb BUT they should first offload Croatia Airlines. It looks to me they are doing everything to make the sale of Croatia Airlines more difficult and difficult so they can sell it for a couple of thousand euros to someone like 4k invest.

London to me makes a lot of sense. Since OU sold its slots there is a need for more flights and especially since Monarch went bust.

And nothing ... it is just bad news for OU, particularly at a time when they are in the ICU (according to last week's Indeks report) ... this will be the last thing that needs to happen to them. If Ryan fly from/to destinations to ZAG that OU doesn't cover, then OU will be ok. If on the other hand they don't and cover OU's main cashcows, then we can start giving and saying our last rites, because it will only be a matter of time before the end comes

Years ago Croatia Airlines used to push the argument that low cost airlines should not fly to Zagreb because it would not make it a world class airport and would reduce its value LOL. Reminds me a bit of the original comments here.

Please no Ryanair or Wizz!

100% agree with your comment.

Unfortunately, they have no strategy or idea with what to do with OU. The fact that they keep on extending the CEO's mandate every 6 mths for another 6 mths, says it all.

If they don't have the stomach to deal with the hard issues at OU, then offload it as a matter of urgency, even in a 4K type of deal. That at least gets it off the public purse and allows it to become someone else's problem. Then you can entertain the likes of Ryan, Easy or whoever else. But to do so and knowingly harm OU while it is still in Govt ownership, is irresponsible beyond belief.

Seems to me ZAG has been patient with the government to sell OU and start talks with LCCs. But their patience has run out.

I think that what anon 9:09 meant is that OU is cheaper for passengers that require such product. Also, OU offers transfers at FRA and MUC, FR doesn’t. I am not so sure that Ryanair will kill OU. FR tends to create its own demand due to low prices, and OU would still offer better proces for some types of passengers. Sure, OU/LH might reduce frequencies, but then they would at least have enough planes for other routes dring the summer, such as Mancherster/Birmingham to Split or Dubrovnik.

I think with injection of fresh capital (including 100-120 seat planes, which OU desparately needs) and competent management OU would survive FR in ZAG. Without that OU will die with or without FR.

They just blackmail the airports. Look at what happened in Osijek with them.

Now imagine they launch Zagreb - Split. That would be fantastic.

I think ZAG must follow the BUD model of having both legacy and LCC. BUS is home for W6, FR and DY. But you also have direct flights to China, US, and a great collection of legacies.

Bus services in Croatia are excellent. You can travel anywhere withing the country in less than 4 hours. The only route where LCC would actually be very beneficial is ZAG-DBV.

Yes, hopefully this will be the start.

Nah. We fly from Treviso with RYR allready (and Marco Polo)

There is no money to be made on domestic flights. You can't ask Croatia Airlines about that. Those flights are filled with transfer passengers during the summer, while during the winter domestic routes are loss making and don't have too many passengers. For a LCC it is much better to fly direct from the west to the coast than to fly a short domestic flight.

I'm sure ZAG DBV would be a success. Even ZAG SPU. And that's all.

On the contrary, OU will not die but have more and more and more clients because of the competition.
Nothing happened neither to RO nor FB for instance.
Nothing happened to LO
Nothing happened to BT
Nothing happened to A3/OA
Nothing happened to JU when FR and W6 entered INI.

ZAG needs a FR routes badly. First routes mostly needed:

ZAG-STN
ZAG-BVA
ZAG-DUB
ZAG-BCN
ZAG-LIS
ZAG-FMM
ZAG-HHN
ZAG-FKB
ZAG-SXF
ZAG-HAM
ZAG-NYO
ZAG-CRL
ZAG-EIN
ZAG-DTM
ZAG-MAD

Any EU carrier can operate any intra EU service as well as any domestic service within any EU country. If there was money to be made, someone would have already jumped at the opportunity. I would be much happier with FR starting some key routes in western Europe from ZAG.

With 5-6 destinations ZAG numbers could grow to 5 million within 2 years.

Where's Rome?

Anon: 09:38 - don't be ignorant, please.
SKP-BUD is 2 weekly and now upgraded to A321

The same goes for SOF-BTS and SOF-BUD - flown with a 230 seater.
SOF-LJU was a success, so why not Zagrab?

Anon 13 November 2018 at 10:11
+1000
Ryanair entered the domestic flight market in Greece and everyone was predicting doom and gloom for A3.
Not only did A3 continued to grow but they actually beat FR and by next March it will have abandon completely all domestic routes.

Don't you think that MAYBE, the suspension of Zadar summer base (odd) could be linked with the opening of a new one in Croatia?

Could work for Zagreb if Ryan air has good destinations and year round service. Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Dublin, Oslo, Helsinki, Stockholm, Lyon, Nice, Valencia, Prague, Budapest, Krakow, Gdansk, Bucharest, Sofia, Milan, Bologna, Porto, Seville, Marseilles, Hanover.... All could do with LCC connection. Imagine if Ryan air flew to all these cities out of Zagreb 3 times per week, that would entail basing at least two B737s in Zagreb, numbers would go up really fast, 500k per year for Ryan air, and if they add few, lets say total of 30 destinations, that would generate at least 2-3 million extra passengers per year. Most Croats who use other airports to fly out, Ljubljana has benefited greatly in past 15 months as some 170 000 Croats used the airport to fly out, Venice, Budapest, Vienna...

And imagine number of visitors to Zagreb going through the roof, from current 1.5 million to well over 2.5 million with in short space of time. There are already some 12 000 EU nationals currently living and working in Zagreb, some 20 000 EU nationals in Croatia. That number is bound to go up as Croatian unemployment hits 5% in mid 2020, and demand for workers goes up through the roof. EU nationals will generate extra flights, at least twice per year, families to visit here and there....

I look forward to more LCCs coming in, and Croatian Airlines can't move of its butt, they deserve to go bust, at least conman who run the airline will be out of work.

Yep, 500k year one, 2 million with in 2 years for Ryan Air alone. Problem is, they don't really pay for landing so airport won't make any money, city will, reason perhaps why Cro gov is talking to Ryan air.

lol, they are "in talks" with ZAG nad SPU for over 10 years now and as you can all see - nothing happen. So this is also nothing...don't expect anything.

Zato da dobiju novce. Oni nigdje ne dolaze bez da im se plati. Dosli su u Osijek, platili su im, kada vise nisu, otisli su. Ali kao sto vidimo iz gornjih komentara... Nasi ljudi nemaju problema financiranjem Ryanaira.

OU actually offers very good deals for domestic flights.

Possible. Maybe Split?

There is a bit of a difference. Croatia Airlines can't be compared to Aegean Airlines in any single way. Also touristicly, Greece is one of the most visited countries in the world.

So OU need to launch new routes to take advantage of under served/non existent routes before their competition to take advantage of discounts and subsidies.

About time!

Ja imam

Does the Government (as the primary stakeholder in OU) believe it is still a valuable asset and will continue to have bums on seats by opening up their major airport? And what operators (apart from OU) will be at risk by this move?

It's the first time I have ever heard they are even considering Zagreb.

You mean the booming numbers at OSI?

Having a third airline fly from Paris would be unnecessary in my opinion.

^ There is no low cost option between Zagreb and Paris.

Good to see more airline interested especially LCCs.

Similar scenario like in Macedonia.

All the Croatian government needs to do when it comes to Croatian businesses like OU (and other government loss making companies with no real strategic importance) is have them properly listed on a decent European stock exchange which they have access to through the EU. This will force the airline to appoint decent management with clear vision and growth strategy, will give them access to legal fresh capital upfront and if when needed, will make them more competitive and if they fail than the market will decide what happens to them.

The only reason this is not ever considered in Croatia and the region is because it stops poli's from making politically appointed management which in turn facilitate kickbacks.

Sad but true.

Our projection guy is back <3

And Trieste.

You mentioned Bologna but not Rome. Funny.

Could be. Or Zag? I think there is something going on here.

Exactly. First time they mention ZAG.

it is first time that EXYU published that. If you talk with people connected with those two airports, than this is not something new.

It's a trick. They are trying to get more money out of Zadar by suggesting they'll
move shop to Zagreb or Split.

Oldest one in the book:
Give us more money or else ...

Not true. ZAG has NEVER publicly mentioned Ryanair ever. Split has. It's even in the article. "On the other hand, Split Airport's general Manager, Lukša Novak, said last year..." also I remember reading about Ryanair talking with Split and Dubrovnik here last year.

OU is not A3, but OU has a strong, regional domestic product with lots of demand.
Should FR enter the Croatian, domestic market it will be a success just like in Romania and Poland.
Domestic traffic is extremely important for the economy of the country,

but arent they increasing the number of flights in ZAD???

Sometimes even Bergamo

Having a strong product means nothing when you no longer have any money. Big losses, taken out loans to survive this year and an order for aircraft with no money to fund it... so any competition is unwelcome, especially from someone like Ryanair.

Stick is "If you don't give us money we'll move elsewhere"
Carrot is "if you give us money we asked we will add extra flights so it won't look like you got nothing for paying us a lot more"

I'm not sure how "but we close the base regardless" fits in this story.

Bas tako je. Ryanair leti samo tamo gdje mu placaju, cim ne dobiju vise novce odmah zatvaraju bazu ...bas jih je onda briga sto ce biti sa zaposlenima ili se sele u drugi grad ili drzavu ili dobiju otkaz.

Anon: 09:08

It is legitimate to be populistic. But I would like to ask you to prove you thesis, wich is not only populistic, but it is wrong.

Please list all the cancellations and the flight programme of OU in 2000 through 2019 and theny explain, how OU was exactly "squeezed out".? Thank you!

Croatia Airlines passenger share 2009 - 35,7%
Croatia Airlines passenger share 2017 - 22,1%

And where are now those guys saying that ZAG is too good for LCC, that ZAG does not need "trash" as W6 or FR are, that it is stricly legacy airport etc etc...

Nice - but totally irrelevant, as highly seasonal market. Your numbers prove that the market has significantly grown - nothing more. Relevant for you claim are those numbers:

Croatia Airlines flights 2009 - ?
Croatia Airlines flights 2017 - ?

Croatia Airlines pax flown 2009 - ?
Croatia Airlines pax fown 2017 - ?

Market has grown yet Croatia Airlines has not kept up with the growth. The size of their fleet has been the same for over 10 years. Many routes have actually been cancelled too. Some have been restarted in last 2 years but many are gone including Tirana, Pristina, Podgorica, Istanbul, Madrid etc.

Cant remember OU flying to any of the above destinations from any coastal town- but this exactly is your claim- squeezed out (reduced) from the coast???

OUs flight programme has (although some do not want to believe it) grown from the coast. It has not grown as much as the market, but then hey Ou would have 19 AC sit idle in winter.

Sorry I didn't write that original comment about coast and I didn't see it was related to the coast, I thought the discussion was about countrywide.

I remember when Wizz Air launched BEG some years ago it almost bankrupted Jat. There is a reason why the government was desperate to offload JU. Eight years later JU managed to coexist with lowcost carriers. Will be interesting to see if OU manages to do the same.

I still think the government will not encourage them to launch flights which would affect OU. I could see BCN, ATH and some random German villages like Weeze or Memmingen.

lol... if you are proposing ZAG-SOF then I will also add PFO-ZAG.

'' This will force the airline to appoint decent management with clear vision and growth strategy...'

I think you have your answer why no airline from ex-YU is on any stock exchange market.

guys, I just wanted to say that for us who work in aviation this is not a new thing and that for many years from now they are trying to "negotiate" with those two airports, but nothing happen, so this is not something new for us who work in airline industry :) It is funny to see all those ideas where could FR fly from ZAG, how many A/C to base at ZAG, etc. wet dreams I'll say.

Yes, UK government is paying them billions to base a big part of fleet in UK. Or Italian government for all the bases in CIA, BGY, BLQ, FCO,...

Te vlade nisu moj problem.
Hrvatska jeste.

@Anonymous13 November 2018 at 12:04

OU flies to Rome, sure if Ryan Air can do Rome, more the merrier.

oh yes, and then 6-7 million...

Ako Kroacija ode u stecaj na prolece,kako su pisale neke novine,onda ne postoje vise prepreke za Rajan da leti za Zagreb.

Anonymous13 November 2018 at 15:16
With a stop in Split. Krasno.

Why don't you then enlighten as all? I mean, you're from the business.

And definitely Eindhoven!

Let's wait first for these flights to actually happen, if ever... Remember, it took three years from indication of regular flights by KE to start and we've been reading about the US flights and possible LCCs (Norwegian, or from the Minister’s own words EasyJet, Volotea) for years. We’ve seen that when the new services from Zagreb Airport are concerned there is a long period from the rumours to the actual flights. The sudden and surprising EK announcement was the only exception so far.

Not that I don't see you at RJK for FR flights to NYO FRA, CRL... :)

Ili ako padne Vlada u Srbiji, pa dodje nova koja nece da nastavi da upumpava pare u Air Serbiu, pa Air Serbia ode u stecaj, onda nema vise prepreka da Ryanair leti za Beograd, ili da Wizz umjesto 2 aviona parkira u BEG 7-8

Pa? Kakve to veze ima sa tim sto je Anonymous napisao? Situacija je malo drugacija s obzirom da u Beogradu LCC vec ima dva aviona stacionirana.

Ja sam samo napisao cinjenice. Nama u Srbiji nije u interesu da Kroacija bankrotira jer ce se Wiz i Rajan odmah rasiriti u Zagrebu a to je lose po ErSrbiju. Za ErSrbuju je naj bolja varijanta da Kroacija tavori na aparatima a da lou-kosteri ne lete za Zagreb.

First thing first, no government will ever be willing to let JU go. It would be political suicide. Second of all, neither the government nor the airport is stopping LCCs from expanding in BEG. For the love of God, easyJet just attacked JU on BEG-TXL!

An attack? Or market demand? Is Belgrade/Serbia really that tiny market that cannot sustain 8pw to Berlin?

О чему причаш? Да ли схваташ да између Загреба и Београда има аеродрома попут Бањалуке, Тузле и Осијека. Дакле ако ико може да утиче на BEG то су онда они а не Загреб који је стотинама километара удаљен, пре ће народ ићи у Ниш.

На крају крајева, сам аеродром у Загребу сигурно није расположен да изађе Рајану у сусрет тако да ће на крају само летети за Сплит.

500.000 by one Ryanair plane (28 weekly flights)

Ryanari even made inspection visit in Zagreb airport and few fazes of negotiation, some 10 years ago.

Every so often one may read here how this airline is attacking that or the bloodbath is following while at the same time there is a constant moaning how the region is underserved and overlooked of its potential. Can't you people make your mind up?

@An. 15:53/19:15, i @Nemjee

Moj odgovor je bio onakav kakav je bio upravo zbog toga sto se ne radi o cinjenicama, nego o senzacionalistickom pisanju, koje cak ni ovaj blog nije smatrao potrebnim da prenese. I hrvatska drzava, dok je mogla ,je upumpavala pare u Croatia Airlines. Firma je odlukom vlade vracena na listu strateskih kompanija. Nastavlja se sa pokusajima privatizacije/dokapitalizacije u cilju sirenja i profitabilnog poslovanja, pa je barem po mom misljenju, stecaj nesto sto se u Croatiji nece desiti. Zato sam povukao paralelu sa Air Serbiom. A novinama i svemu sto u njima pise vjerovati, o tome radije ne bih

BEG and Serbia most definitely can but the question here is if JU can. So far whenever they were directly attacked by an LCC (MLA, LCA...) it ended up being a mess. In LCA they managed to outlive W6 while in MLA they absolutely and totally failed with flights being suspended before the end of the high season.

In TXL both airlines can survive, for now, but JU will be affected and I wouldn't be surprised if they keep it as daily, in stead of 9 weekly as was the case last summer.

Slazem se. Po meni OU ima isti status u Hrvatskoj kao JU u Srbiji, propast ovih firmi bi se i te kako osetio i predstavljalo bi preveliki politicki rizik. Zato ce i drzava prihvatiti prvi predlog vezno za privatizaciju (ma kakav on bio) kao sto je to Srbija bila primorana da uradi. Jat nije privatizovan, problemi nisu reseni vec je sve lepo stavljeno u jednu kutiju, lepo zapakovano sa masnom i tako gurnuto sa strane... da cela prica truli. Cak i kada se ispostavilo da je Etihad krajnje nesposoban i da nije u stanju da donese obecana resenja, opet se nista nije radilo vec se samo eto... cekalo. A sta se cekalo to niko ne zna. Mozda opet neki 'investitor' koji bi konacno skinuo JU sa grbace drzave.

Plasim se da ce se isto desiti i u Hrvatskoj. Drzava ocito ne zna kako da vodi vazduhoplovstvo, ne zna sta da radi sa OU a zbog sve losije situacije u firmi postaje sve ocajnija u potraznji za resenjem. Evo vec nekoliko godina kako traze nekog da preuzme OU a nema nikakvih rezultata. Dakle logicno je da cim nadju nekog ko pokaze trunku interesovanja da mu utrape firmu nezavisno od uslova... jer ipak, tu se radi i o tim vrednim politickim poenima bez kojih ni jedna Vlada ne moze opstati.

Balkanski narodi jos nisu shvatili da ulaganje stranih firmi na nasem terenu retko kada donese pozeljne rezultate. Obicno se svede na neke uzas zivi uslove koji nas kasnije skupo kostaju.