NEWS FLASH
Austrian Airlines has ruled out launching flights between Vienna and Ljubljana for the time being, leaving the two cities without flights following the collapse of Adria Airways. In a statement, Austrian said it would serve the Slovenian market through Klagenfurt. “Austrian Airlines will offer its passengers up to three daily connections from Vienna to Klagenfurt as an alternative to the termination of Adria Airways flight operations to Ljubljana”, the airline said.
There is any Austrian Airlines bus from Klagenfurt to Ljubljana too?
ReplyDeleteThere is no OS bus. You have Alpe Adria line conneting Klagenfurt and Ljubljana (via Ljubljana airport), but schedule doesn't fit OS flights to VIE.
DeleteThanks, but no thanks. If I need to drive to KLU, I rather go by car all the way to Vienna.
ReplyDeletewell if you want to spend 4 hrs on a very curvy highway with very strict speed limitations, then sure, go ahead and drive to Vienna
DeleteWell, if you want to spend 1h (at least) driving over Ljubelj pass to Klagenfurt, which is much more curvy, then go ahead!
DeleteTo be honest - even until now, it didn't make sense to fly to Vienna with JP. You had to drive 30 minutes to LJU airport from Ljubljana, be at the airport 2h before the flight, 30min flight, 30 minutes to pick up the luggage and come out of the airport, 30min to arrive to your meeting location -> altogether that makes 4h! And that is only in very best case, don't forget the latest flights were scheduled at 21:15, which means you had to wait for 4-5h before the return flight departed.
I'm not saying conneting in Vienna doesn't make sense, but P2P doesn't. Time and moneywise.
Also in the future, Slovenes flying KLU-VIE will mostly not be P2P pax. SAME as LJUVIE so far.
DeleteAustrian is losing millions every year, LJU-VIE only worked because JP flew the route at a loss. LH Group is not willing to lose money in Slovenia so they are behaving like this.
ReplyDeleteI don't think LX will stay as it is, I guess in winter the route will be reduced to maybe 5 weekly.
?
DeleteAustrian is actually profitable all the last years without exceptions.
Austrian Airlines is going bankrupt. Also don't forget that LH Group told them that they won't get new long-haul flights until they improve their profitability.
Deletehttps://www.aviationnews-online.com/finance/austrian-airlines-posts-wider-losses-in-q1-2019-results/
WTF? I am sure you are just trolling.
DeleteDid you read that they are profitable every year?
And you are saying they are bankrupt? Do you even know what profitable means?
LH only wants them to increase their profitability to a very high level or 150 mill EUR per annum and they are pressuring OS with the long haul fleet order.
Their massive losses indicate they are indeed going bankrupt unless LH saves them. Wizz will kill them in Vienna.
DeleteMaybe its too early for them too?
ReplyDeleteHahaha, and everyone was saying "we'll have cheaper fares and better connectivity without Adria".
ReplyDeleteI am flying to BRU on 15DEC and back to LJU on 20DEC with SN cabin bag only 12kg. The fare is 80 eur return. Is that cheaper than JP or what?
Delete@17:38 Depends on what your needs are. If you are flying to Brussels for a daily meeting that, for example, starts at 11am and finishes at 4pm, that does not sound cheap - add 2x150 EUR at least for the stay in a hotel in Brussels and the opportunity cost of lost time. If you travel for pleasure, sure, sounds cheap. For some people it is not even cheap enough, has to be no more than 50 EUR.
DeleteConnectivity is long dead, LJU flights are there for transfer passengers who are going away on longer than a day. LH did not even introduce similar schedules like they have in ZAG or BEG where you can go to FRA for one day and be back at night.
DeleteLJU's relevant as an airport has died with JP.
SN started with such low fares in ZAG as well. Now they are more expensive and with less frequencies than OU.
DeleteAs I am no aviation expert can someone please explain to me how come ZAG can handle 5 flights to VIE per day, and LJU 0 at the moment? Is there really that much demand on ZAG - VIE route? Does someone have any numbers?
ReplyDeleteMost of the pax are transfer pax. Minimum connex time in VIE is 30min. The airport is not to big. That makes VIE very attractive in sense of traveling for business purposes (with hand baggage the fastest option). Also OU has the best prorate SPA with OS.
DeleteBut still I guess OU and OS are killing each other, in the morning their flights are just 10 minutes apart? Or I am wrong?
DeleteNope. Very good bookings on both. OS is using Q400 as well, so there is no complains about shity A/C. Also OS is slowly becoming leisure part of LH group with destination like Mauritius, Maldives etc. Atlas for example uses this routes for the packages for this destinations in combination with TUI.
DeleteI work for Fraport in Slovenia and there is definitely a bad mood towards LH. Everyone expected them to be more serious about Slovenia but I guess they don't care. Ok, who doesn't want can walk away, others will take market from them. Air Serbia this morning arrived with 140 pax on Airbus 319. I guess most of those had tickets with JP+LH Group.
ReplyDeleteHow is Air Serbia doing on INI - LJU route?
DeleteMore serious? Don't care? Lufthansa Group is, at really short notice, starting up considerable LJU operations. Obviously not as much as Adria flew. They were heavily loss-making, after all. But LH Group is investing more than I had guessed they would be able to at short notice, and faster than I thought possible. Maybe your expectations were unrealistic?
DeleteOf course they are not unrealistic, LJU is at a serious disadvantage. No one here cares about LH's incompetence, we care about airport connectivity which is crap with these flights. No same day flights to MUC, FRA or ZRH. Local business is also complaining because now in most places they have to sleep and pay for hotel. So all this is ok because LH sent its small plane 3 times per day at awkward times? As airport we are looking to serve the passengers first and only then airlines. LJU lost a lot with JP, that is fact.
DeleteThe good relationship we had with LH in LJU is gone. Like it or not AF Transavia are very good partners for us and we are working a lot with them. East is secure with TK and JU. People attack JU but don't know how important they were with their special fares. Airport was full of people with no flights, angry, desperate and attacking our airport stuff. JU just took them away so thank them for that.
That's the true situation here in LJU. Just facts no hate.
Anon 21.32
Don't know each flight but from what I saw there are around 100 pax per flight which is good.
And one comment, what short notice? AF cut ties with JP months ago, everyone knew what was going to happen with Adria. Some prepared in time and some didn't. Very simple.
DeleteBig Lol at prelast anon!
DeleteYou make it sound as if AF/ Tranavia were flying 5 times daily to LJU.
LH group airlines will at least fly 4 dailies to LJU all now introduced on short notice plus 3 times daily to KLU.
LH doesn't fly to KLU. By that logic AFKL flies to ZAG so they should ignore Slovenia like OS is? Low IQ comment. Also AFKL will send larger planes to LJU than LH will.
DeleteHuh?? I said LH group and not LH. Read again. Apparently you are not able to understand a simple sentence. I wonder who's got a low IQ!!
DeleteAnd KLU is in fact the closest airport to LJU with commercial flights.
Still that doesn't change the flaws in your argument
DeleteCheer up mate. The market will pickup again but I would be surprised if someone open a base and does doubles and triplets out of LJU. (What will be the missing part in LJU back from the days when JP was still operationally sustainable) Im surprised how quick LHG responded thought will take longer. Where I see the problem in LJU is that your management looks like they just woke up? Theres a decade of shallow management actions and this is actually repetitive from two decades before when the region was kicked by VCE, GRZ, ...
DeleteI think we should chill and see how this plays out. At the moment, LH schedule is not optimal for business passengers, but you have Trieste, Klagenfurt, Graz and Zagreb on our borders with respectable schedules towards LH hubs.
ReplyDeleteGreat, we should be happy that others are treated better than we are.
DeleteIts not about how we are treated, its about money this is how capitalism works. Unlike some others on the forum, I think there is way more potential on the Slovenian market than the current schedule, but I guess our government coming out with ideas about Air Slovenia in cooperation with Lufthansa, certainly doesn't help in getting LH group planes to Lju immediately. Thats why I said we need to see how this plays out. Maybe until next summer (as someone mentioned below) and then look at the real picture. No soup is eaten as hot as its cooked:)
DeleteAgree, Air Slovenia is a dangerous idea that is not helping in this situation...
DeleteI think we have to hold out until the summer schedule with this limited connectivity. Imagine that on short term it was tough to find more capacity in peak hours, so all we got are these lousy mid day flights. If Trieste has an overnight from MUC, its quite expectable LJU gets it quite soon at least for FRA, there were 400pax per day on Adria. Until then we suffer, especially getting back home in the evening is a challenge! And believe me... for real business trips, driving from Trieste at 11pm is not really an option.
ReplyDeleteExactly, everybody needs to calm down and wait for the summer timetable!
DeleteLH group managed to schedule five daily (well, 34 weekly) rotations to LJU on appropriately sized planes for a month from now. Could be better, but seeing they were wetleasing several JP planes until last week, and were planning to wetlease several over the winter as well, there's probably not that much slack in the system, and the winter schedule was already largely finalised - does anyone know which if any flights had to be cancelled/rescheduled/... to accommodate the LJU rotations?
It will be easier for them to plan schedules for the summer timetable. Indeed, the MUC flight seems to have only been loaded until 28 March (end of winter timetable). I'm guessing MUC might be moving to Air Dolomiti and collapse of JP will slightly accelerate the planned growth at EN. At least one night-stopper is almost guaranteed to start in the summer to facilitate connections, but the return to seven (iirc) northbound 7am departures is naturally highly unlikely.
In the meantime, we should hope the absence of a single truly dominant player in the meantime will entice other airlines to come and play. Maybe BA finally makes it back for more than two months, SK might well introduce a 2-3x weekly to CPH to replace the 6x weekly on JP, A3/AZ/IB/TP/OK/BT are less likely but who knows. Also, Slovenian leisure-travellers would likely appreciate 2-3x weekly LCC flights to the Iberian peninsula.
I haven't seen it on other websites yet, but Siol.net has published some very worrying news regarding a new flag carrier, which would be a disgusting waste of public funds. The truly important flights to LHgroup hubs (and onwards from there) will be replaced by LHgroup anyway, to whatever degree is reasonable, by the end of next year anyway, and burning taxpayers money on flights to PRN or wherever else they decide is in "the national interest" is absurd. Honestly, they should stop talking to people in the airline business and shut up on the matter altogether, so they stop perturbing the market unnecessarily with promises of subsidies and a local carrier they're founding and the like! It's impossible to assess just how much of an overall downgrade of service the collapse of JP actually is if they chase away potential entrants by the promise of soon-to-be state-backed competition and make other airlines wait to see if they can extract subsidies instead of starting service. Anyway, here's the link https://siol.net/novice/slovenija/razkrivamo-kaksne-nacrte-ima-drzava-z-air-slovenia-508703
Good comment. Also dont forget that this is bigger than aviation, politicians and interest groups are now in holding pattern. If he picks up the Air Slovenia and 5-10 mil annual loss, we immediately have ideas "well if we have money for airline we also have a few 100 mil for doctors, teachers, students, retired, other loss making "strategic" companies...", the list goes on and on..
DeleteGovernment give Adria 4 millions for LJU-BRU... where is this money now? Will we pay again 4 millions to Brussel Airline?
DeleteThe pricing on LH to Frankfurt was funny, I tried booking today and all tickets start at 510eur return. Yesterday they were available just over 300 eur. Probably some glitch? And for BRU a pleasant surprise - normal fare 140-160 eur return! Unthinkable with Adria...
ReplyDelete€160 for a 90 minute flight is a lot.
DeleteIf you do your math its 80 eur for 90min:) If you want cheaper have your lcc with ridiculous flight times (except for drinking tourism) and lousy service...
DeleteLH price return 22.11.-25.11.2019
ReplyDeleteLJU-MUC 509 EUR 6:15
TRS- MUC 120 EUR 13:05
LJU-FRA 509 EUR 11:05
TRS-MUC 195 EUR 6:15
Seems like a ripoff by LH. LX and SN flights from LJU are more reasonably priced.
DeleteI guess as soon as Air Slovenia got in the press today the price jumped to 509 eur :)
DeleteCan Air Serbia use "fifth freedom" and pick up some traffic between LJU and MUC or VIE (or some other destination)?
ReplyDeleteI suppose the title should say "rolls out".
ReplyDeleteIts a huge pitty that VIE cant be used any more as a hub - AUA has great connections to the east: CR, Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Greece, Bulgaria, Romania… And as somebody said above: VIE is nice, clean, comfortable and easy to transfer. AUA is also the star aliance member, so for those collecting miles, loss of link is surelly a loss. Sure nobody used LJU-VIE as P2P, but as a transfer point - it was my favourite :-(
ReplyDelete