State considering establishing Air Slovenia


The Slovenian government is looking into setting up a new national carrier entitled Air Slovenia in the wake of Adria Airways’ collapse. According to local media, the plan has been proposed by the Minister for Economic Development and Technology, Zdravko Počivalšek, who anticipates for the new national airline to launch operations towards the end of February 2020 with a fleet of ten to twelve aircraft and a route network comprising of fifteen destinations. Mr Počivalšek previously said any new national carrier should be established only in partnership with Germany’s Lufthansa. Last week, the Slovenian Prime Minister, Marjan Šarec, said, “The Government of the Republic of Slovenia and the competent ministries are preparing for the coming period, either by setting up a new company or by providing connectivity through other carriers”.

The Slovenian government passed legislation yesterday to allow the state to subsidise key air routes. Infrastructure Minister Alenka Bratušek said she could not speculate which destinations would be subsidised but added all airlines would have the ability to apply for them. “We want Ljubljana to be connected to Europe and the world with as many airlines as possible”, Ms Bratušek told a news conference after the government session. The proposed legislation will need to be confirmed by parliament in the coming months. It is believed Mr Počivalšek is in favour for the proposed new national carrier to apply for the state subsidies.

Meanwhile, the Kranj District Court launched bankruptcy proceedings for Adria Airways yesterday, after the German-owned carrier filed for receivership on Monday. During the process, creditors will have three months to file their claims. Passengers who had bought tickets for Adria flights have been urged to report their claims as well. Receivership proceedings have also been opened for Adria's wholly-owned subsidiary Adria Airways Flight School, which used to train the airline’s pilots. Adria's flight school was set up in 1980 in cooperation with the Ljubljana Faculty of Mechanical Engineering. Initially, it was planned for the school to train only future Adria pilots, but later opened up to others as well. It has trained over 2.800 pilots.




Comments

  1. Replies
    1. +100000

      Corrupted gang which probably earns some incentives on a/c leasing or other contracts

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    2. Whats the difference between what the government did with Air Serbia?

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    3. The difference is that the government did not liquidate Jat Airways meaning it was able to take over all aircraft, slots, international call sign, inherit all international agreements, codeshare agreements, secure continuity in cashflow and revenue, inherit staff etc. Adria has lost all of that so any new airline in Slovenia will be very costly and a very long process. You are starting an airline from scratch. In the case of Air Serbia, it was just a rebranding from Jat Airways.

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    4. Yes ok, but did JAT not have tremendous debs like Adria? So the government would have had to cover that, which they were not allowed to?

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    5. All of Jat's debt was to local state owned suppliers (very similar to Montenegro Airlines today). So it was written off by the state. Adria has debt towards international suppliers which is the reason why its planes were repossessed.

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    6. This is right but technically it does not make any difference. By writing off debts towards stats owned companies does not make it better. I mean planes or fuel is probably not being produced in Serbia. With Adria bankruptsy international debtors wont get any money, whereas in the JAT case the got their money.

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    7. Why would government not be allowed to write off debt from one state owned business to another state owned business? Is it good? No. But it's not illegal.

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    8. Is it good? No. But it's not illegal. ==> Ask the employees at those other companies. They do good business but have to bite the dust. Why would the petrol company although state owned be responsible for JAT debst. I mean the state sees them as one company, but other successful (state) companies suffer. Not good for the economy!

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    9. You are right. The ideal scenario is what you have with Adria now, with 500+ unemployed, loss of routes, uncompensated passengers and suppliers left without money. Win for everyone right?

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    10. Even when that state write offs debt to local suppliers that usually means that state will take over debt by itself, therefore covering it from budget.

      In case of JAT there was even some loan for covering debts, hence now they mention in regarding funds transfer from budget to Air Serbia (I'm not sure what is true there).

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    11. Well is this not how it functions? I mean that is the risk of doing business. No one forced to do business with say Adria. Sukhoid did not. Those who did face the risk. Otherwise the state could own all companies and how cares if they make money or not- like in EX-YU. No one really worked and everyone had the atitude the state will help anyway. So in short term it is bad but it allows the economy to become more robust anyway.

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    12. Well JAT debts weren't written off, all the capital (aka equipment, realestate, personnel...) was transferred to AirSerbia on the agreed date to form a new company.

      The money owed by JAT has been payed up where it needed to be but JAT still carries it's debts, just like Japanese zombie banks.

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    13. I know it. This is why the corrupt mafia was creating troubles and forced Adria to close. Now they can make lot of corruption in the name of new airlines. Evil souls.

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    14. @Anonymous4 October 2019 at 12:19

      JAT Debts at the time of its demise were around €406 million, I am sure if you google you'll find exact numbers, the additional €260 million incured since JAT demise are part of Air Serbia's debt and something Serbia itself needs to deal with in coming years. Total debt Serbian tax payers need to foot up as of 2019, are around €660 million on account of 2 airlines, JAT and Air Serbia. Adria Airways, we're yet to find out exact losses, but it seems Adria will cost Slovenian State and its taxpayers some €140 million, this is when all liabilities are included, no idea how much money Adria Slots will bring but I doubt it'll be over €20 million.

      Croatian Airlines Debts as we speak right now are around ,€65 million in total, looking at OU's financial reports for 2018, however adding 2019 these loses might be tad higher, baring current financial injections the losses would have jumped to near €80 million. For any small carrier these are heavy losses to deal with, burden that can only increase pressure on the carrier's long term viability. Reason why Adria went bust is accumulation of bad debt and poor management.

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    15. Once again : stop calling Jat JAT. Jat was lousy leftover of JAT, important international player

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    16. Total debt Serbian tax payers need to foot up as of 2019, are around €660 million on account of 2 airlines, JAT and Air Serbia

      Anon at 13:35, can you post a link to any non-partisan, relevant source with that number? If not, what are you smoking and can I have it? It's legal where I live.

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  2. What was the point of closing Adria then? Better to have given money and let the company stay afloat. Now you have to secure new leases, staff, IATA desingation etc.

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    1. the point is not to throw somewhere between 60-90 mio at once in old adria, but to throw up to 10 mio/year in new adria..!?

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    2. An airline starting new would cost much more than 10 million Euro per year.

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    3. The point of closing Adria was that its debt was close to 100 million euros which would need to paid back if the airline was kept alive.

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    4. So easy point. New kids on the the stage. With other people money.

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  3. Počivalšek who presided over Adria sale to 4K Invest now wants to set up a new airline. Great.

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    1. and in cooperation with Lufthansa. Jesus....

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    2. This minister is a real idiot ... He hasn't got a clue. His immaginaton stops at Magna and similar

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    3. Exactly. Instead of him proposing new ideas, he should be investigated for his role in destroying Adria.

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    4. I don't know whether croatian or slovenian politicians and aviation "managers and experts" are worse? Or are they both just equal thieves and criminals?

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  4. Waste of money.

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  5. So the flight school has also gone bankrupt... I thought it was the only part of Adria that was actually profitable.

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    Replies
    1. Such a shame. Slovenian aviation has been destroyed.

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    2. Yes, because Adria's flight school was the only such organisation in Slovenia, right? People really need to finally step outside of Adria's HQ to see the real world.

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  6. The market has already moved on, it's time the Slovenian government does the same. Meanwhile Air Serbia has further increased LJU.

    In addition to the Sunday 06.10 flight that is getting the 733, they have also added it on 07.10, 10.10 and 12.10.

    These are new increases from yesterday and are all available in the system.

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    1. Also the second daily is sold out and removed from the system. Bookings must be through the roof.

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    2. Impressive! Who would have thought JU would do so well in Slovenia. I'm really happy for them it means they have a good relationship with LJU and Fraport.

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    3. JU might save LJU numbers in September and October.

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    4. And Adria's pilots need to move on with interviews, not moan on national TV day after day how Slovenia REALLY needs a loss-making national carrier.

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    5. Anon 10.03

      Why are you laughing? How many flights were upgraded from BEG to LJU? How many days there were when JU sent two 733s?

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    6. lol sure they will compensate the 10 JP aircrafts not flying. lol

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    7. Yes 10 small regional jets that were 60% full.

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    8. Why are people still bashing JU in LJU? Didn't they learn their lesson from Air Serbia's success there? Obviously that JU has become one of the main players in Slovenia. As ex-YU community we should be happy about that.

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    9. Was Adria even operating 10 aircraft on a full-time basis out of LJU anyway in the summer schedule, i.e. not counting the museum displays of Saabs on the apron and aircraft flying wet-lease for LH,OS, etc.?

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    10. No, by the end they had 5-6 operational planes in LJU.

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    11. So why is the government dreaming about 10-15 aircraft then?

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  7. I don’t know why so much negativity. Slovenia as a small market needs a national airline that will operate with small profit or even small loss. If they want to have good connectivity and not only most profitable routes (that have already been filled with LH, SN, LX) they need to set a national airline.

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    1. Same time your mother is waiting months for a surgery appointment. Political strategy of fools. Wherever there is demand for, airlines will fly too, where there is no market, you dont waste taxpayers money. If u want an airlinr, use and burn yr own money. Taxpayers money are for public use and there Slovenia has much more important sectors which need to be financed

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    2. This is correct, but who will run it ? The government/state is incapable of that for sure

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    3. JU520 BEGLAX, I think we’re forgetting to see a full picture here. Perhaps with bad connectivity there will be less business opportunities, less tourism that leaves taxes and less investments. And therefore, with time less budget for health, education, infrastructure etc. I think we’re underestimating the importance of connectivity.

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    4. Who tells bad connictivety? You hve flights to AMS BEG TGD HEL WAW SXF LON CDG ZRH MUC FRA BRU IST SVO and thru these hubs to the world. You hve airports surrounding Slovenia with daily 100s of flights. Slovenia has very good connections to the world already. To improve attractivity of yr country, you shld also first invest in yr hotel infrastructure. I am currently at Budva, if I compare SLO investments with Budva, its almost like day and night. U hve thousand tasks to complete before u afford the luxury of an own carrier

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    5. That is true, if you look at it like this, then Slovenes do have a good connectivity. But I am not talking about Slovenes here, I am talking about foreigners - Do you believe an average tourist understands that they can travel to ZAG/TRS/VEN to reach Slovenia? I am afraid majority of them don't. Connectivity through the airport within the country adds the country to the map. Someone form Sweden who wants to travel to Slovenia, will only check flights to LJU, once they realize they might have to change flights to get to SLO, they might change their mind.

      On top of that, I do not think business people/investors want to travel to ZAG/TRS/VEN and then loose a couple of hours to reach LJU.

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    6. Well are we talking now business people or turists? There is a difference. Business people very well understand how to come to a designated city, and the idea that investments will go away because we dont have 5 flights per day per city connectivity is just bizzarre. If we talk turisms, it is an important section which will definitely feel short term influence, but not its as important as some other parts of the economy or as some would like to show on TV.

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    7. LH LX OS will increase or add flights as soon as demand is here. Their schedule currently is a starter since they know WITT is coming and that 1000s of customers who lost tickets with JP are not imm buying new tickets. But I bet already for SUTT 2020 you will see strong rise for ticket purchases and for 2021 at least one more LH group flt will be here for SLOs EU presidency. And btw, u want to turn around history again and start fm the scratch again, just that u re in couple years again where we are today. Dont forget JP has damaged SLO reputation big time, i am fed up with a SLO carrier and will never support it



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    8. I am talking about both - tourists as well as business people. I think bad connectivity to LJU affects both.

      I don't believe everything always needs to follow full capitalist idea (supply & demand). That's why states are there to help. I think some things are sometimes worth running with loss, because the consequences of not running them, are greater than the loss that they produce.

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    9. @JU520 BEGLAX your issue sounds rather subjective and personal. You would probably disagree with any idea of Slovenian airline. I understand.

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    10. JU520 BEGLAX you are absolutely right. I think the majority of Slovenians had absolutely no benefits of Adria distorting the market through monopoly/subsidies. Only expecptions are people in government/public sector, and companies (small and big) that operate like they are part of the public sector, who feel entitled to having a flight at any time they feel like and don't care about the price/product - because they will share the bill with the rest of us. And as soon when a serious foreing investor comes public saying he will not invest in the country because he couldn't get to it, I will change my stand.

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    11. Look at those hotels in SLO who are under government control. F... that shit. SLO gov is no good gospodar, they will just burn taxpayers money and not establish competitive companies or hotels. Look at hotel infrastr in Bled or Portoroz Lipica Piran and compare with HR and MNE. I am currently at the Chedi in Lustica Bay. Impressive what MNE has invested in the past years

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    12. Well, that's why it collapsed right? Why are we talking about Adria again? We can only speculate how Adria has operated or how a new airline would operate.

      I am only thinking of what is best for the country. And connectivity definitely is. I personally work abroad. I have to take flight to Dublin quite often. If I had to fly to Belfast and then take 3 hours drive to Dublin, I would have skipped all these meetings. I am sorry you guys don't understand that.

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    13. @JU520 BEGLAX, once again, you've clearly decided to hate SLO government. If that is your decision, that's fine, but then, there is nothing we can discuss.

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    14. SLO gov is not the topic here, its a new slov carrier which would be established with taxpayers money.

      About SLO gov, there is reason why so much business incl tourism sector is under gov control and there is more hurdles for FDIs as elsewhere. So in terms of that corrupt system i am def not in favour of yr govment. If I see the traffic chaos in and around LJU with no efficient publ trans system, if I judge yr train connectivity and durance LJU Koper, LJU to ZAG or Marbor, if I see that hwy network to Istra and HR border near Rijeka is still missing 30 years after indep, if I just yr health care infrast, especially klinicni centar LJU or others where people wait for months to get surgery, than i hve to admit, I dont like yr govment. But for hating, i wld hve loved it first, but thats not the case.

      What is nice to see in Slovenia is, that more and more houses and apt complexes hve been renovated, new ones being built and that general living standard has improved again since crisis in 2007

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    15. @anon13.21 I fully understand this. On the other hand, I also work abroad in hightech business development, and fly regulary (1-2 per month). And for us fly connectivity plays almost no factor at all in decision making, because I cannot go to my boss by any stretch of the imagination and say I will not take the meeting because I dont like the flight schedule.

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    16. LJU's connectivity is extremely poor. As a jobless pilot, I will have to commute abroad. In order to do that, I need at least two daily flights to a major hub. Preferably, couple of them. Since I have no such options, I might as well end my careers. No point in moving my family abroad and end up in the same boat as I did with Adria. Slovenia is just getting worse and worse.

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    17. Or just take the job with Lauda and drive to VIE?

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    18. Really?! They sure must have enough vacancies for all Adria, Thomas Cook, Aigle Azur, XL Airways pilots in VIE?! If my memory serves me correctly, Lauda has 15 aircraft in VIE.

      Maybe you should do your homework before posting stupid comments.

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    19. Aonym 0619h

      First of all sorry to hear u lost yr job, losing job is one of the tough challenges in life and a very unpleasant situation. Check for airlines with larger ac orders and why not just sending yr CV to some reputated airlines. LX gets 2 new B777, they re looking for new pilots as internally some pilots will switch fm existing ac to B777. But dont give up. Connections to LJU will improve, i am convinced that MUC and ZRH in 2020 or 21 will get 2nd daily flight. And maybe u hve to deadhead for a while but situation will improve again. Adria pilots have a good reputation, for 38 years no incident, thats quite a record. Wish u all the best and never forget after each thunderstorm the sun shines again.

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    20. Thank you very much for kind words. It's nice to see empathy instead of constant bashing and ridicule. I've got a few offers but commuting is the part that worries me the most. LJU was never known for good connectivity and without Adria it's going to be even worse. Of course, people utilizing air travel one a year have no idea, but usually they're the loudest. Hope you're right about the situation improving over time. All the best to you.

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    21. "needs what" Elaborate that!
      Fraport turn to make sure services meet demand. Not government's.
      Fact:M taxpayers in Slovenia never afforded flying. Highlight of vacations is a drive to Croatian coast.

      Brussels lines for euro-parlamentsriee and staff can be run with AirTaxi service. They can afford it and would get reimbursed. So does Slovenian government staff!

      FlixBuss seems a good option form Ljubljana.
      Graz and Zagreb are closer to east-Slovenia.

      Boutique tourism is better of with smaller private jet service. Isn't that the goal of Slovenian tourism agency? They should rather open talks with established airlines to optimise tourist flow to such a small country. Capacity wise.

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  8. Sell an already failing airline, rightly not intervene when the 4K leeches have done their worst to just go and start the whole process again, with taxpayers money? Genius! Seems that someone in government has a guilty conscience..

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    Replies
    1. Srbija je isto poslala Jat u likvidaciju i ustanovila Air Serbia( sto je pravilno ucinila) takodjer iz Sabene je nastao Brüssel airlines, iz Swissair Swiss itd itd.

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    2. ^No it didn't. Jat was not liquidated, it was just renamed. It kept all international agreements, codeshares, IATA signage, staff, aircraft... Adria has been liqudated. It means you have to start a new airline from scratch.

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    3. Jat Airways was rebranded and modernized.

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    4. And after they made Brussels and Swiss those two companies bankrupt again. Same as new Olympic.

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  9. I detect a resurfacing of the Sukhoi story...

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  10. Come on, this is ridiculous! If they want to connect Slovenia with the world, as they said, than let the others enter into the market without waisting more money because ef there is a market, carriers will find interest and way to step in. Bunch of incompetent idiots.

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  11. Great news, but they (Government of Slovenia) should consider using consulting services from young German based aviation consultancy company 5L Aviation Ltd. They are young on the marker and so far 5L only had experiences in powdery substance industries but they have know how how to set up an small but efficient airline.

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    Replies
    1. Yeah, I heard their main experts are some guys named Kowarsch and Schuster. There is also talk about some Estonian experts in the firm. They are the guys for the job

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    2. LOL, so true!

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    3. Schuster knew what he was doing, Kowarsch ruined any progress that was made under Schuster.

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  12. There is no need to give birth to another failing model.
    Slovenia must understand that the regional hub model is not gonna work as more and more airlines are already using big planes to be more competitive.
    Air Dolimiti is still alive because of LH
    HOP is still alive because of AF
    flybe is still alive because of good domestic coverage in UK.
    JU is still alive, we all know why and thanks to whom...

    Other than that, most small regional airlines are out of the game.

    Bring bigger and newer jets such as A320 or B738....this is the only way to survive.

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    Replies
    1. Actually flybe is only alive because of Virgin, it was essentially minutes away from bankruptcy before Virgin partnership.

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    2. there is not a single airline in europe that operates between 10 and 50 machines and was profitbale in the last 3 years, a time when the large companies were make profits in the billions (and please do not mention any company that lived on aid from state or coporate mother company, or does not publish audited IAS figures)

      and there is no reason to expect any such small airline to make a profit on thier own in an average year going forward

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    3. Fully agree. And hope those calling me hater for blaming OU not to became much bigger and one of those profitable you talk about, despite it had all predispositions for it, and who are defending and advocating humiliating role of OU as feeder to Star, are reading your post

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    4. Adria pilots were some of the lowest paid pilots in western Europe, Wizz and Ryanair guys earn significantly more.

      But pilots chose Adria because it's their home and they want to live and work in their home country... Which is not so horrible a thing to want, especially if you have family and kids who will suffer if you a) leave or b) make them go somewhere new and rip up their career etc

      The foreign pilots care less, they've all got other options that are just as far from home as Slovenia was.

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    5. Fully agree!

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  13. It was pointless bankrupting Adria if you are going to throw even more money into a start up.

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    Replies
    1. Not saying it makes sense to start a new airline, but it is definitely cheaper than wasting 100mio EUR just to cover debt - with no capital for building a profitable business model and worthless brand (Adria).

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  14. Stupid politicians looking to impress naive citizens with prestigious projects never stop to find new ways to waste tax payers money.

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  15. Then you have to question the decision why the government didn't nationalize Adria.

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  16. OMG where we live....

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  17. Pcoivalsek should get the Estonian guy as the airline's new CEO.

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  18. Very expensive idea with uncertain return.

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    Replies
    1. No need to burn taxpayers money again, Millions of EUR have been burned already

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    2. I would say uncertain long term. Short term (next 5 years) it’s almost guaranteed loss.

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  19. We will see what will happen. Apparently the PM still hasn't expressed his thoughts on this.

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  20. I don't think it is such a bad idea.

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  21. LH you are loosing your reputation (as a brand) in Slovenia big way lately. Adria connecting flights were such a big nightmare for many months already. Do the flights that you want by yourself. Never seen so many stressed foreigners coming to Ljubljana by Adria lately: businessman starting to fly to other places for months, people "forced" to fly for meetings, workshops etc in Slovenia so disappointed. Even people from undeveloped countries (UN cooperation) were so negatively surprised, shocked. When these foreign people hear Slovenia they just remember problems. Can go lower? Yes Air Slovenia.

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  22. Adria was a better name in my opinion.

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    Replies
    1. Tens of thousands of people who got ripped off, or their flight was cancelled/merged/severely delayed would disagree.

      The brand is dead.

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    2. The brand name got sold... The buyers would probably want to sell it back for much much more while a court ruling potentially voiding the transaction would take ages.

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    3. Adria got "re-capitalised" with the brand after having sold it.

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  23. 10-12 aviona za 15 destinacija je propast u samom startu.Primera radi AS iz Nisa leti jednim avionom na 12 destinacija.A vlada Slovenije izgleda ne zna sta radi. Osnivaju novu avio kompaniju od sledece godine a s druge strane nude subvencije drugima. Da li to znaci da subvencije vaze samo do marta iduce godine i koja ce to avio kompanija pokrenuti subvencionisane letove na par meseci?Totalna zbrka.

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    Replies
    1. Regarding subsidies it is clearly written:

      " The proposed legislation will need to be confirmed by parliament in the coming months. It is believed Mr Počivalšek is in favour for the proposed new national carrier to apply for the state subsidies."

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    2. Da aplicira neko ko jos ne postoji,februar je veoma blizu.A Luft Hanza ce od februara otkazati letove iz Minhena i Franfurkta koje uvodi krajem meseca ili ce se leteti 3-4 puta dnevno u pomenute gradove? Ma komedija.Nema nista od tog posla,ovo je samo zamajavanje naroda dok se strasti oko Adrie ne stisaju i to je to.

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    3. If you actually read the article you will see it says that the subsidy legislation has to be adopted by parliament and that this process will take several months.

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    4. Znaci prvo ce pokrenuti Air Sloveniju pa raspisati subvencije?
      " Zdravko Počivalšek, who anticipates for the new national airline to launch operations towards the end of February 2020 with a fleet of ten to twelve aircraft and a route network comprising of fifteen destinations" .

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  24. This idea will never get off the ground.

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  25. one aircraft per destination? ok!

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    Replies
    1. 5 or 6 flights per day to each!

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  26. DO NOT WASTE TAXPAYERS MONEY !!!!

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  27. All these pilots want are high salary positions in SLO again, those too high salaries were one reason for the bankruptcy of JP

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    Replies
    1. Yeah right. They were definitely the reason for 90 million loss. Cmon.

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    2. Were one reason but not main reason
      Main reason were too high fix costs for the limited size of the airline. Fix costs include pilot salaries btw

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    3. while JP's salaries were high (for JP's revenue and 115 EUR per ticked average income) it's 600k EUR per month lease for A319 who flew 50% of the time empty, surely didn't help.

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    4. Tell that to the guys who had 30% lower salaries than WIzzair/Ryanair and all the other bottom feeder airlines.

      I am certain your salary is too high and will cause your company to go bankrupt.

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    5. Well if it was so bad, they could have left and go somewhere else?

      Easier to go on TV and moan, I know.

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    6. No, the easiest solution it to come on anonymous board and s*it all over the place.

      I guess you never heard of quality of life concept? It's not always about money.

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    7. There can be equal or better QOL achieved elsewhere than in Slovenia as well.

      Anybody working in aviation in Slovenia for the past 15 years knew Adria would end one day as it wasn't sustainable to have decades of losses.

      It was prudent to seek more stable employment elsewhere, which is what most of us did.

      But feel free to think government owes you a stable job, nice salary on taxpayers burden just because you know how to fly a plane.

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    8. So a fellow pilot ridiciuling his own colleagues?! Pilots really are their own worst enemies. I hope I never have to share the flight deck with you.

      Since you're an expat, why do you care about whining on TV? Were you perhaps rejected by Adria at some point and now you have an axe to grind?

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    9. I do care because I don't want the government to again sink tens of millions of EUR down the unprofitable national carrier drain. Better to invest it into hospitals, schools - something that every single citizen needs.

      And I was in Adria a while ago, if you are asking, so I know the mentality.

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    10. So you know the mentality from 15 years ago? I assure you, things have changed. A lot of old guys left and things have changed substantially.

      Believe me, you will never notice any change in terms of improved health care, public services, roads now that Adria is gone. Government will use the "extra" money to channel it in their own pocket. Health care in Slovenia is already appalling (we can compare it to Eastern European countries), our judicial system is corrupt/slow/inefficient and the list goes on.

      So at the end of the day, instead of country providing work to their employees who pay taxes (and quite high if I may add) in that same country, people are rooting for Adria's demise just because they're envious. Not very wise, is it?

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    11. If you work for a loss-making government entity (let's say Adria before privatisation), all your "tax paying" is in other terms just a very inefficient way of government transferring money from one account into another.

      It's the mentality of a lot of people in Slovenia... If company A gets to be saved by the government, all other companies deserved to be saved as well.

      The fact is very simple. Adria couldn't compete on the market, so it went bust. And the market is very swiftly responding to that with connections to all hubs except VIE within 1 months. And with time, the schedule will become better for connections/business trips, as it's in LH Group's interest to get more pax with shorter connection times as well.

      If you wish to have a Slovenian flag carrier, nothing stops you from investing your own money or finding investors, and start a new project. I'll be the first to congratulate you if you succeed. Just stop trying to lobby with government to give you a new airline on taxpayers shoulders.

      Delete
    12. Stop whining about taxpayers money. If you're so worried about your money, I suggest you put up a tent in front of the parliament and start asking the politicians some questions. On the top of my head, where did the money go from those overpriced surgery tables, why is Jankovic allowed to walk freely around Ljubljana, why does one have to wait for a year to get a surgery, but when he/she pays out of the pocket, there's an opening the next day, ...

      People have the right to fight for their jobs. End of story. At the end, the government will decide, if they want to do it or not. Since they need votes for the next reelection and because of moronic Slovenes (such as youknowwho), you have nothing to worry about. There will be no Adria 2.0. But than again, they might need it to drain some more money out of it. In that case, I expect to see a tent in front of the parliament. Otherwise you are just a whining old man.

      Delete
  28. There will be no state airline company. You have to read the politicians, they are buying some time. New airlines are coming and after some time, there will be no need for a state airline.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Ocigledno da je Vlada Slovenije pronasla dobru formulu.
    Od bankrotirane Adria Airway, sada nameravaju nastaviti
    Sa nazivom buduce kompanije saimenom drzave. "Air Slovenija".
    Mogla je Vlada u Ljubljani to uraditi i prije bankrota.
    Kao sto je to uradila Srbija. Ipak, Slovenija je verujem bogata drzava i ima mogucnost drugacijem prilazu. I novo ime kompanije
    Podrazumeva nov odnos. Lufthansa je tu. Know How je obezbedjen. Za novac tu je drzava za novu Air Sloveniju.
    До тада ће се потрудити да опслужује Словеначко тржиште.
    По потреби и оформљена авио компаније под новим лепим
    Именом. Ер Словенија. Са срећом било.
    Поздрав из пролећног Сиднеја.
    Rodney Marinkovic, Sydney.
    ✈🌐✈🌎✈🌍✈🌏✈☺✈😇✈💒✈👑✈🔆✈🔅✈

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rodoljube o kakvoj crnoj dobroj formuli vi pricate?

      Delete
    2. Postovani Anon 12:12. Ovde sam pomenuo dobru formu
      Zbog toga sto je Slovenija bogata zemlj i moze im se.
      Rade sta hoce...
      До њиховог поновног стартовања нове компаније
      Ер Словенија, помоћи ће неке компаније из окружења. Па ту је и Ер Србија у њеним могућностима. А после како буде и како Луфтханса
      Буде утицала... Форме се мењају. Имена такође.
      И Air Slovenia je lepo ime... ✈
      Радован Маринковић, Сиднеј. ✈🌏✈🌎✈🌍✈☺✈🌞✈

      Delete
  30. In semi-related news; Croatia Airlines has woken up; I've got served this Facebook ad yesterday

    https://i.imgur.com/16eq7sf.png

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Isn't it too early for that?

      Delete
  31. Government gave Adria 4 millions for LJU-BRU... where is this money now? Will we pay again 4 millions to Brussel Airline?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, no, no! They gave nothing to ADRIA in advance. They purchased and payed tickets one by one or more by more like everybody else. Except ADRIA was adopted as "court carrier " on this particular segment (LJU - BRU and vv.).

      Delete
    2. I just can't believe it how many times this has been explained on this site but it still has to be repeated ...

      Delete
  32. Air Slovenia partnering with Lufthansa is going to be 100% failure. LH didn't want to buy Adria, didn't want to save Adria and LH didn't ask for new airline Air Slovenia to be created. LH does not want to own Air Slovenia. What else is needed until people realize Lufthansa does not want Slovenia to have own national airline?

    LH airlines will soon start their own flights to LJU for direct and transfer connectivity and do not need competition from the new airline they don't own. In the end LH will do everything to get rid of Air Slovenia.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not the best start by LH - return tickets for November, December to MUC and FRA priced at 500 EUR. Ouch.

      Delete
    2. Ticket prices will come down as market stabilizes. Doesn't have anything to do with Air Slovenia/LH relationship.

      Delete
    3. LH suely won't take part in this political project of Mr. Počivalšek/ PM Šarec. This politicians cleverly linked the establishment of a new airline to cooperation with LH. And after LH will politely decline, they will simply say that conditions for an establishment of a new company have not been met, hence they won't be held responsible for this.

      And exactly that is s problem for Slovenija now. Nobody wants to be responsible and do something. Our politicians are just trying to survive by doing nothing. Namely, if they don't do anything, they can't make a mistake (at least a visible one) and be responsible.

      Clear strategy on aviation development is lacking for a a long time now !!! Therefore, how are we to accomplish anything, if we don't know where we are going and what we want to achieve.

      Delete
  33. one word - Air Baltic

    ReplyDelete
  34. This is, frankly, absurd. It’s almost as if they set out to prove that other airlines don’t want to come to LJU since they’re working as hard as they can to chase them all away by promising state-backed local competition. Not just that, but the government is publicly announcing nobody from SkyTeam/Oneworld stands a chance anyway, because they are going to partner with Lufthansa.

    For over ten years now, Adria was tolerated by LH because it guaranteed them a captive market without LH having to do a thing. It fed all the LHgroup hubs with reasonable regularity, risk-free for LH, and the only traffic LH lost were a few people connecting from TIA/PRN/SKP/TGD/SJJ to AMS/BRU/CDG/CPH and maybe MOW before they cancelled that route. For all the actually profitable long-haul connections, they were still delivered to LH group hubs, and LH didn’t have to lift a finger to get them to FRA/MUC/ZRH.

    Now JP went bust, the government has hand-picked LH as their “partner” (but really, as history shows, overlord), not even pretending to publish a public tender, and promised to funnel lots of money into another unprofitable airline, so they can continue shutting out competition from LJU. Once the new Commission is formed, Vestager should throw a fit.

    If they “want Ljubljana to be connected to Europe and the world with as many airlines as possible” as Bratušek says, they need to announce there’s clearly a lot of interest in flying to LJU from all sorts of places, and that Ljubljana is a wonderful place for people to visit and has lots of keen travellers that want to visit other places. And then stop talking about aviation and wait for the summer timetables to be finalised - only if connectivity drops or stagnates relative to the winter, then some panicking might be warranted - but not before.

    I understand this winter will suck for everyone regularly flying to/from LJU. But that can’t be helped anyway. People who are now complaining over poor scheduled flight times after JP went bust need to realise LH doesn’t keep 13 daily rotations (number JP flew to LHgroup hubs this summer) worth of slack in their scheduling a month before switching to the new timetable! And certainly not at peak times! No serious passenger airline has such poor aircraft utilisation in today’s climate - 5 daily was already a lot, and it shows they’re serious about the LJU market. The summer timetable has not yet been finalised, and then nightstopping aircraft or at least first-wave rotations will surely be scheduled from at least one or two LH hubs. Remember LHgroup were wetleasing JP planes to cover their own routes until last week - doesn’t sound like they have lots of spare planes lying around, does it? I realise winter timetables are a bit sparser than summer ones, but they also scheduled wetleased JP metal through the winter for e.g. MUC-STR.

    {Part 1}

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. While LJU doesn’t have any truly dominant airline (group), it’s the perfect opportunity for some more airlines to enter the market. BA is probably getting a bunch of new LGW slots after Thomas Cook collapsed and they just had a fairly high-yielding summer at LJU, SK isn’t that close with LH anymore and there are no more LJU-CPH flights, IB/AZ/TP might see potential in a mix of O&D and LatAm connections like AY does for Asian connections, and FR/VY could see some potential in flying some sun-hungry Slovenians to Spain/Portugal. But they’re a lot less likely to come if they’re guaranteed to face a new state-backed loss-making airline! The government plan isn’t just bad for the taxpayer, it’s also bad for the consumer. Right now is a golden opportunity to make LJU a competitive market.

      If you want to run a small (<30 planes), short-haul only airline, and not haemorrhage money in the ECAA, you need a strong O&D market. Basically, you need to be Luxair, with a rich market full of businesspeople with lots of money to spend on regular flights to LCY and MXP. And even they don’t turn a profit every year. Pretty much every profitable airline in Europe either does a quite a lot of long-haul or is a LCC that wouldn’t satisfy the connectivity desires of the government. And what aircraft would the new airline use? CR9s, right, because that’s what dear old Adria used so they must be the best for the job. Except their fuel burn per seat km is more than 50% higher than A220, E2, ATR-72 (, or A320neo, which are definitely too big).

      And they want to fly to 15 most optimal destinations. Like what - LON, PAR, FRA, MUC, ZRH, MOW, BEG, IST? Which already have flights and will only have more now that JP is gone? Or are the most optimal destinations SJJ, PRN, TIA and wherever JU flies to from INI? Surely the most optimal destinations are those for which demand will drive supply, and the adults who plan routes for serious airlines will eventually schedule flights there. Unless the government doesn’t either chase them away by promising them disloyal competition in the form of a state-backed carrier or lets them know there’s subsidies without which nobody else will then come. Or, indeed, unless the government basically handpicks LH and gifts them a state-backed carrier. Then even LHgroup will cease the routes they only just announced and do as they always did - offload risk and losses onto Adria … I mean Air Slovenia. Because going back to the same outdated business model with the same inefficient plane type that’s 15 years behind times sounds like a great idea, all so you can guarantee 8 morning departures and (twice) daily nonstop flights to a few Balkan destinations for which there’s no business case anyway, while effectively subsidising the largest airline group in Europe without any semblance of a public tender and driving up prices for local consumers who then drive to other countries to fly from there instead.

      {Part 2}

      Delete
    2. +10000000000000000000000000000.

      This literrally sums up the optimum solution for LJU.

      Delete
    3. Agreed except the part where LH offloads LJU feeder routes to Air Slovenia. That might have been thing of the past, but no way in the future. LH may offload only to other brands they OWN, like Air Dolomiti, Eurowings, CityLine, Edelweiss etc.

      Delete
    4. That is one of the most clever comments I read on this site in a long time.

      ZP and AB (the ministers) really have no clue.

      Delete
  35. Hi Everyone,
    I need help from the commenters with my problem. I was just planning to buy tickets to bring few of my friends to tourist visit Ljubljana & Belgrade leaving on Nov 29 from Canada. I was waiting for better deal and apparently it is quite steep price for this time of the year. I was surprised since it should be low season. So idea was to fly from Toronto to Frankfurt (with Air Canada, cheapest) and then Ljubljana, stay few days there and hop on plane and arrive in Belgrade where I am originally from and stay there few day turn around fly back to to Fra and then back to Canada. So ideally Star Alliance would be better option since I need to go through Fra. So my Questions are:

    1) Who else beside Lufthansa that is in Star Alliance is flying to Ljubljana?
    2) What is better option then to fly to Belgrade from Fra and then Ljubljana (so extra 1 flight) or to fly to Zagreb and the take bus shuttle from Airport Zagreb? There is a flight that arrives at 8am in Fra from Toronto.
    I have already booked non refundable hotel stay in Ljubljana so I can not switch itinerary.
    Thanks for all you help
    Boris

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1) Swiss and Brussels Airlines. Swiss has cheaper tickets to LJU than LH.
      2) Depends on your preferences and timetables.

      Delete
    2. The way you (Anon 18:32) phrase it makes it sound like you're buying every leg separately. I'd suggest booking an open-jaw ticket YYZ-LJU//BEG-YYZ and booking a separate one-way ticket for LJU-BEG on JU or even take a train if that's more convenient.

      https://www.google.com/flights?gl=ca#flt=YYZ.LJU.2019-11-29*BEG.YYZ.2019-12-08;c:CAD;e:1;sd:1;t:f;tt:m

      If you need to stay in FRA for a few days:

      https://www.google.com/flights?gl=ca#flt=YYZ.LJU.2019-11-29*BEG.FRA.2019-12-08*FRA.YYZ.2019-12-12;c:CAD;e:1;sd:1;t:f;tt:m

      (obviously, change the dates)

      Delete
    3. Thank you both of you. Well Wow, Swiss is cheaper and I saved $600 by going via Zurich and not via Frankfurt. and I bought LJU-BEG as separate tix as suggested and all worked well with times.
      Thank you again.

      Delete
  36. LH9932 (CRJ9) FRA-LJU this evening. Is this scheduled flight or something else?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Probably a ferry flight to have the aircraft serviced by Adria Tehnika.

      Delete
    2. Probably. No return flight according to flightradar.

      Delete
  37. It was clear to me, the collapse would come, given development in Adria in cc last 10 years. Selling it to 4K was just the last nail. Pushing aside all management, cancelled, joined,... flights, why was Adria not profitable. Croatia Airlines and Air Serbia are not profitable as well from what I read online... I fly regularly on Ljubljana-London route, so I have not used Adria much. But the flight ticket Ljubljana-Sarajevo route was more expensive than the one I often pay to fly from London Stansted with easyjet. Is it just demand, or just costs (plane + fuel), would it be less expensive to fly ATR or Q4 on these short routes?

    ReplyDelete

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