The Slovenian Ministry for Economic Development and Technology has turned down several offers by airlines to either establish the country’s new national carrier or station aircraft in Ljubljana. According to the “Sierra5” portal, talks have been held with the Lufthansa-owned Air Dolomiti, low cost carrier Wizz Air, Slovenian cargo airline Solinair and the French Valljet. Recently, a carrier from the Middle East also expressed interest in establishing a new Slovenian operation. “All of the meetings were of an informative and presentational nature, in a way that would not cause or have any financial consequences for the ministry or the state of Slovenia”, the Ministry said. It added, “We received offers and proposals throughout last year and mostly during the first half of this year, just prior to Slovenia’s presidency of the Council of the EU, as well as during the first months of the presidency. We examined all of the submitted proposals and responded to them. They varied widely, from planned destination networks, the number of frequencies for each destination, as well as aircraft types for the new airline”.
The Ministry said it has not accepted a single offer. “We are still seeking the most favourable solution that would cover the needs of Slovenian passengers, as well as meet the requirements set out by the European Commission for the establishment of a new airline, which would have to involve a private investor, or several private investors, a sustainable business model etc.”, the Ministry said. Croatia Airlines is also believed to have submitted an offer to establish a base in the Slovenian capital. Talks over improving the country’s connectivity had also taken place with the likes of LOT Polish Airlines, Air Serbia, as well as the former President and CEO of the Etihad Aviation Group, James Hogan, who today heads a consultancy company.
The Slovenian Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister for Economic Development and Technology, Zdravko Počivalšek, said this August that the government was still looking into ways to fill the void left by the collapse of Adria Airways in September 2019. “If we want to have better air connectivity in Slovenia, we will have to do something in this sector and find a way forward to enable progress, in cooperation with a private stakeholder. Currently, we do not have a national carrier, and air traffic is severely affected by the pandemic”, Mr Počivalšek said.
This makes me angry. So all of these were interested in helping Slovenia get more flights and the government just rejected them
ReplyDeleteI'd imagine terms and conditions weren't acceptable.
DeleteYou don't know their demands and such.
DeleteThey waste money on all sorts of things yet its impossible to give anything for a new airline that would help Slovenian public, Slovenian jobs, Ljubljana Airport?
DeleteWhatever they do it will be loss making, at least for the first couple of years. That's normal. Like someone said, it would be a long term investment.
DeleteI was hoping for some kind of joint partnership between JU and the Slovenian government in setting up an airline. This would have been a great opportunity for both parties on many levels.
DeleteOur gouverment has such demands that no one else can eistablishe a base. Falcon is going on maintanance again and no ine even tryed to rent their private jet to slovenia as demands are so high. We realy are banana country.
DeleteSo Wizz Air did want a base in LJU. Obviously didn't get the right conditions.
ReplyDeleteWizz have no fleet type for LJU.
DeleteNit only that, but lju or gouverment doesn't want lcc to eistablishe the base
DeleteThey turned down offers to improve connectivity?!? They must be joking!
ReplyDeleteWe don't know under what conditions those airlines would operate from LJU.
DeleteIf somebody asked for 50m EUR per year, should they say yes?
Somehow I doubt all of them had that sort of terms. Ironically the government has given much more to Adria in the last ten years of its life than 50 million. Basically threw it away.
DeleteSomehow I trust the ministry to be the least competent to determine if the offers were good or bad. This is the same ministry who had no issue that 4K invest took over Adria and the same ministry who sat idle as the airline collapsed.
Delete+1 last anon. Air Montenegro started flying in just 6 months while these guys after 2 years still don't know what to do.
DeleteLol threw away. That's why LJU airport had 2 mio pax which will never see again. As explained many times in past, 5 mio incentives per year for JP with 15 aircraft was peanuts comparing to what other companies will demand for their services...
DeleteTransfer passengers with a 45min stop in LJU don't really contribute that much to the economy of the country...
DeleteOh yes they does. Pilots had such salaryes that country made few 100k euros per minth just from this. And lju was employing a lot of staff as well as adria did.
Deleteheh anon at 10:49 speaking like that JP had 90% transfer pax :) Funny guy..
DeleteYes, that is why they operated twice a day to SKP, PRN and TIA, they had so much transit from there to Germany and other EU countries. And what did adria employ in the past few years? they were operating with CRJ's with 3 or 2 FA only, the airline did not upgrade its fleet or network in the past few years before collapse. I think that TIA - FRA & MUC as well as PRN - FRA & MUC did 20% of their income every month, probably the most successful routes of their network.
DeleteWizz Air would be perfect for LJU if they operated with A319s, and after dont say that LJU has more demand then SKP where WZZ operares with A321 during the pandemic.
At least it's good to know someone is interested in Ljubljana.
ReplyDeleteGov. unfortunately isn't.
DeleteEven American Airlines is interested if you pay them enough...Or maybe Fraport should pay for those flights from their own pocket
DeleteUnfortunately, we will be stuck with this status quo forever until everyone starts using neighboring airports.
ReplyDeleteI think the Solinair arrangement was their last chance. Why did they pass that opportunity?
ReplyDeleteIn the end they calculated the losses would have been the same as Adria.
DeleteSolinair has no know how on scheduled pax transport neither the infrastructure for it.
DeleteSolinair went public with their proposal for a new airline (planes, destination, frequencies). They would have built up infrastructure and employed many people who lost their job at Adria.
Delete@anon 09:26
Deletewhich is normal in airline business. Now at least they know what are the losses due to lack of connectivity of Slovenia. Those 5 mio was drop in the ocean..
@An09.33
DeleteTrade Air was operating only mail and cargo, better saying smaller packages, for 10 years before starting passenger operations. Based on today's situation, I wouldn't say they didn't have know how to start it. And I think Solinair has it as well, maybe even more than TDR 15 years ago
There are quite big difference between what Trade air is doing now and what Solinair would have to do in case of establishing national carrier. I don't say that they couldn't because in Slovenia there are people who know how to run scheduled airline.
DeleteSolinair has no experience with direct customers, it's not like they are selling their own cargo flights - they are operating them for MNG and DHL. Not to mention that they have no experience operating passenger flights.
DeleteExactly but there are people in Slovenia who has a lot of experience with that. Perfect combination...
DeleteWho in Slovenia has experience in profitable scheduled pax operation?
Delete@An.10.22
DeleteI fully agree with you. Doing ACMI only is easier than operating scheduled flights as flag carrier, no doubt. But undoubtfully Solinair can make it, employing people from Slovenia, or even wider EU, who have all knowledge, skill, and experience needed.
@An.10.52
Trade Air was subcontractor for DHL as well, with no direct experience with customer. Plus operating tiny Turbolets, unlike Solinair. So if TDR could have made the switch to passengers 15 years ago, I don't see any reason why Solinair couldn't make it today
Who says that it need to be profitable? That's mission impossible to be honest. on other hand who in ex-yu are has experience with profitable scheduled pax operation?
DeleteJAT Yugoslav Airlines LOL
DeleteTrade Air didn't go from ACMI freight to scheduled pax. They were operating ACMI pax for a long time before they started doing their own scheduled routes.
Delete@Anon 11:20: Why focus on the exyu? Slovenia is in the EU, there's a large market of airline and aviation professionals who know how to set up and run profitable airlines.
If you start an airline with the premise that it will never be profitable, it'll be yet another free ATM for wasting taxpayers money.
If you think that profitable airlines work without incentives from their homeland countries then you are really naive. The only difference is that people in EU do that much more smarter then we do. For example maybe LH does not get direct incentives but who do you think that win most of public tenders when it comes to government travel? W6 and FR for sure not.
DeleteToday, it's much more important to have structured organisation (company), than what type of services it would fly. Solinair has structured organisation required by all laws and regulations today. Trade Air didn't have it 15 years ago, it had to build it up, and that"s why Solinair could make transition easier. Concerning scheduled services, working alone would be much more difficult, I agree, than cargo/charter/ACMI, but here we have government which could find the ways to help in the process, if interested. But obviously they are not. Bottomline : Solinair is able to do it. The State doesn't want it. Very simple.
DeleteSolinair's AOC doesn't even allow passenger transport. So much for "everything in place".
DeleteOf course their AOC doesn't allow passenger transport when they don't have passenger aircraft in fleet. Or you expect Authority to allow transport of pax in freighters? It is absolutely normal situation and changes to AOC could be applied for and allowed within days, month the latest, for any new type, or any new range of operations, including passenger
DeleteAs I pointed out incompatibility of Solinair and national airline is the ownership structure of Solinair (non EU member).
DeleteAdditionally their business model requires Slovenian government to take on all the risk and losses while profit goes to Solinair.
So their suggestion is:
Deleteif national airline makes a loss they get payed (services).
If national airline makes a profit they get payed (services + profit) .
Slovena covers the bill if the airline makes a loss.
Solinair takes a profit if airline makes a profit.
LJU fell from third busiest airport in ex-yu region to 12th in a decade and is now competing against Tuzla. That should be an alarm enough for the ministry not to reject offers so easily.
ReplyDeleteSad but true
DeleteJust keep rejecting... In the end the offers will stop.
ReplyDeleteObviously Wizz through otherwise...
DeleteThey should have been thinking about Adria's replacement months before it went bankrupt as everyone knew it would go bankrupt.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what the situation would have been now at LJU if Adria was salvaged in some way. Would they have survived Covid? I'm certain there would be more passenger traffic and flights at Ljubljana Airport. At least they would be doing the summer charters and money would be kept in Slovenia rather than a Croatian airline being paid to do it.
ReplyDeleteIt would be much better. That's for sure.
DeleteIn my opinion this were their last chance. None of those airlines will come back again with an offer after being rejected.
ReplyDeleteThe more time passes the less of a possibility to find a solution.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteI'm actually really surprised that two years after Adria they are still getting proposals. They say they got an offer in the first months of Slovenia's EU presidency. Taking into account that the presidency started in June it means they only recently got a proposal.
DeleteWell the problem might have started two years ago but it still very much real.
DeleteIt is completely normal that the government will have to take on some risk. But Wizz Air was their best bet in my opinion. There are good examples of how successful they have been in the region. Look at the wonders they have done for airports like Tuzla, which unfortunately is the category Ljubljana finds itself in now as a capital city of an EU country. I'm certain Wizz asked for subsidies but in this case the long term benefits would have outweighed the financial incentive.
ReplyDeleteYou are comparing two completely different airports. Slovenia as itself is not interesting for LCC having a base here due to:
Delete-no mass tourism in Slo
-not having mio of gastoz around EU
Of course it could happen to base aircraft in LJU but price would be much higher than those they demand in ZAG/SKP/TZL...
But Wizz Air was interested to have a base in Ljubljana. They submitted an offer.
DeleteOf course they did but more important question is what was the price they requested to base aircraft in LJU. I assume that it was really high..
DeleteStill waiting for the market will sort itself out like they promised.
ReplyDeleteGood. Do not waste taxpayers money.
ReplyDeleteLol
DeleteSo they should stop wasting any money on aviation. Ok.
DeleteSo they should stop wasting any money on aviation. Ok.
DeleteI agree we should stop wasting taxpayers money. This does not mean only aviation sector.
DeleteIf I use your logic because we constantly have a negative state budget, we should sell the state.
@Anon 9:50:
DeleteSo You're saying "Do not waste taxpayers money?" - OK, so let's take a look at how much Slovenian government has "wasted taxpayers money" on other forms of public transport (railway & bus) in the past few years: 81,7 million Eur in 2018, 86,5 millions EUR in 2019, 93,3 million EUR in 2020? ( Source: https://sierra5.net/novice-novo/novice/item/3919-tujega-nocemo-svojega-nimamo )
Would you like to get rid of bus and railways too?
Or, to put it in another context: Slovenia has invested in Adria Airways in 1 decade about the same amount of money as they are "wasting" on railways and bus transport each year. And yet no one in Slovenia is stupid enough to shout let's get rid of Ljubljanski potniški promet or Nomago or ... Slovenske železnice.
Hope some sort of a solution can be found.
ReplyDeleteIt can but government turned down all of them.
DeleteSo Air Dolomiti was the "regional airline" LJU airport said it was in talks with months ago. So Air Dolomiti was Lufthansa's solution for Slovenian market. My guess is they would have replaced LH group on routes to LH hubs.
ReplyDeleteIn the past skill and knowledge was still present in Slovenia. Now foreign airlines are hiring and searching for talent.
ReplyDeleteSo I wonder if there is enough prospective and skilled people left in Slovenia to setup a new airline.
Don't worry, there are!
Deleteaviation talent and slovenia in the same sentence. you are of the joking kind i see :) how come no ex adria bigshots work in aviation, ay? :P
DeleteAir Dolomiti and Wizz are the ones that stand out for me here. Air Dolomiti probably would not be the best option. They would just fly to Lufthansa hubs. Wizz Air on the other hand could have introduced many routes and if successful would have based several planes in LJU.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think we need both of it, LCC and scheduled airlines presence. To have only LCC based here in LJU (which I think will never happen) will not solve issues we are facing now, lack of connectivity to major EU hubs.
DeleteBest solution would be to have our own national carrier and then we can decide where to fly.
The whole aftermath of Adria going bankrupt was handled extremely badly. This is just another example of it.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Slovenia launch tender for PSO routes? That way they could ensure connectivity.
ReplyDeleteBecause they do not want to improve connectivity.
DeleteBecause they do not care about connectivity.
DeleteI also think they would have the case for introducing PSO to a couple of destinations.
DeleteWe need to cover so many destinations that establishing new airlines would be much cheaper than introducing PSO.
DeleteIn reality, you only need good connections to hubs, which could have been done under PSO.
Deleteso you have morning/evening flights to FRA (covered) / MUC / BRU / ZRH / VIE / CPH.
DeleteThen flights to Balkan destinations which are not covered (PRN / SKP / TIA).
So under that PSO we would have to base at least 4-5 aircrafts and costs for such operations are extremely high...
They do not care. It has been suggested many times. They are a bunch of idiots who care more about finansing Portorož than improving the air connectivity of the country. All the offers mentioned in this article I have seen with my eyes, except the one from Wizzair. I doubt it happened. Air Dolomiti was a scam (defending LH interests), OU and JU were not acceptable politicaly wise even tho OU offered an option with a reasonable share of risks. Its hilarious and worrying at the same time what you can hear from mouths of politicians. Those same mouths which are full of "market will take care of" and at the same time they go and say "from the point of slovenian politics its embarrassing to let croatian flag carrier flying around on behalf of Slovenia, we cant accept this" - no market anymore?
DeleteIt's obvious that any kind of private investment w/ state subsidies is politically not acceptably for the current government. So they decided for the easiest solution: do nothing and launch self-promoting statements from time to time, especially before elections.
DeleteWell, if the government chips in, it's not free market any more to be precise. OU or whoever can any day establish a base in LJU at their own risk and funds. That's free market. But if you want subsidies of some riska sharing or other government payments, well, then this is not a free market any more. So i dont see what the outrage is all about.
DeleteNo one is talking about the Middle Eastern airline mentioned and they were the latest to send a proposal. Who could it be??
ReplyDeletePossibly Air Arabia which is about to launch a new national airline in Armenia is cooperation with the Armenian government.
DeleteTrue that's very possible. We can rule out Etihad. I doubt it was Qatar or Emirates.
DeleteIt could be QR too, you never know. They got burnt in Italy but they obviously want an EU AOC.
DeleteOr it was someone obscure like this Valljet.
DeleteSo much talk, so little action.
ReplyDeleteThe government does not seem to care.
ReplyDeleteIn a year's time the government will also be talking about receiving offers but none were right for them.
ReplyDeleteWhy not make the offers public?
ReplyDeleteSomehow I doubt Wizz Air would be happy for the government to outline their commercial conditions. The government would get sued.
DeleteI'm surprised Trade Air is not interested in doing more in Slovenia other than charters.
ReplyDeleteWhy? They are a charter airline. This is perfect for them. Adria's bankruptcy turned out great for them. Before that no one in Slovenia had ever even heard of Trade Air.
DeleteLOT with two based E170 andFRA,MUC,VIE,SKP,TGD,TIA will be perfect; )
ReplyDeleteAlso french Amelia ,this company is registered in Slovenia.
I agree LO would be the best choice but struggling in much bigger BUD, doubt they would soon go for another base. On the other hand, with almost no competition in LJU, not entirely impossible
Deletesurprised Slovenia has taken this long to set up a national airline with how quickly Montenegro has started its new national airline.
ReplyDeleteIn Montenegro there is demand for flying, covid or not:
Delete1) there are no proper road or rail connections, even with neigbouring countries - a good example being TGD - BEG, which is only 286 km and could be very well-served by road or rail, but is not and instead is the primary air route from TGD
2) there is a big diaspora that needs to fly even during covid and with resident permits of EU countries they can fly irrespective of any covid limitations
3) tourism
For Slovenia it may be more reasonable to wait until depression of flights in Europe is over, rather than subsidise flights with <50% load factor (50% load factor would actually be very optimistic)
It seems everywhere is potential except in Slovenia. What a nonsense..
DeleteI'm surprised that Nordica of Estonia isn't on the list of suitors. I would have thought that they would make sense. But maybe they knew that the government is turning down all offers.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Nordica go bankruot too?
DeleteBecause they have already signed a contract with one company... ;)
ReplyDeleteI hope you are not joking.
DeleteI doubt it but that would be only solution to improve Slovenian connectivity..
DeleteIt makes me wonder why Slovenia is the slowest developing country (% of improvement year over year) compared to ex yu members.
ReplyDeleteWhat Slovenia (2 mln inhabitants) need to have economic and reliable connection to the world is several flights a day to Vienna or Munich. And the remaining part of travel done from the hubs to anywhere the passenger wants.
ReplyDelete