Lufthansa has reportedly rejected the Slovenian government’s proposal to jointly set up the country’s new national carrier. The development comes following talks on the matter last week in Frankfurt between a Slovenian delegation led by the State Secretary within the Ministry for Economy and Lufthansa executives. According to the business daily “Finance”, the German carrier informed the Slovenian Minister for Economic Development and Technology, Zdravko Počivalšek, that it was disinterested in setting up a new airline at Ljubljana Jože Pučnik Airport several weeks ago and reiterated its stance at the meeting last week. The Lufthansa Group is gradually adding flights to the Slovenian capital, with Swiss launching operations from Zurich last Wednesday, which will be followed by Lufthansa itself from Frankfurt and Munich, as well as Brussels Airlines from Brussels, over the coming two weeks. The four routes accounted for around 40% of Adria’s scheduled flights and seats this summer.
Mr Počivalšek has led efforts to establish a new national airline in Slovenia in the wake of Adria Airways’ demise on September 30. He is believed to have proposed the creation of a new flag carrier which would launch towards the end of February 2020 with a fleet of ten to twelve aircraft. The minister previously said any new national airline should be established only in partnership with Lufthansa. Commenting on last week’s meeting with the airline, Mr Počivalšek said, "I can't make any statements about what happened. First, we have to talk to the group of people that attended the meeting and then we will decide the best way forward", he said.
The travel analytics firm ForwardKeys has revealed that Adria Airways’ bankruptcy will lead to a significant reduction in connectivity from Ljubljana Airport this winter. Key source markets such as Austria, Germany and France will be impacted, as Adria accounted for 99.6%, 87.3% and 50.8% of seat capacity on flights from these countries. Despite the rapid response from various carriers to Adria’s bankruptcy, scheduled capacity in Slovenia is still set to fall by almost 40% this winter. “Given the attractiveness of Slovenia as a destination, I expect other airlines to fill the gaps left by Adria Airways but how long it will take to get back to the previous level is anyone's guess”, the Vice President for Insights at ForwardKeys, Olivier Ponti, said.
What a surprise...
ReplyDeleteThis was exactly what I had ijn mind when I saw the title.
DeleteIt's not a surprise.
DeleteIt was a nice journey for the delegation with good hotels, alcohol and socialization. It's way better than to seat in the boring office in Ljubljana and because when you are going to meetings abroad you "write" overtime hours so you have free days later.
Take turkish airlines
DeleteNr 1 airline in europe
Pa da naravno. A da je Janša na vlasti ti bi sad hvalio njihov trud i mudrost
Delete"The four routes accounted for around 40% of Adria’s scheduled flights and seats this summer."
ReplyDeletewow that's the significant. I'm assuming these were also the only four routes profitable for Adria.
Even more interesting for me
Delete"Key source markets such as Austria, Germany and France will be impacted, as Adria accounted for 99.6%, 87.3% and 50.8% of seat capacity on flights from these countries."
Well the French market will now be 100% Air France's. And they prepared for it accordingly.
DeleteWhile Austrian market will not be covered at all. I'm really surprised that no LCC jumped at the opportunity to launch flights from Vienna.
DeleteLJU-VIE would only work on daily basis, as a lot of people would be connecting (even on a separate ticket) to longhaul flights.
DeleteAnd you definitely can't fill A320/B738 on LJU-VIE with 7pw or more and make profit.
no lcc fly such short routes
DeleteI'm assuming Austrian will start the route in summer 2020. Their explanation of how they are serving Ljubljana through Vienna is ludicrous.
Delete4 hours drive between Vienna and Ljubljana is something what LCC carriers are not aiming for
DeleteWhat is VIE-LJU flight time approximately?
DeleteRyanair flies a lot of very short routes from DUB to UK, but there's a sea in between.
DeleteThey fly ATH-SKG, that's a pretty short route.
DeleteFR stopped flying ATH-SKG since March 2019.
DeleteA3 on the other hand has something like 10 flights a day each way. Maybe even more than that.
Austrian serves LJU through KLU not VIE !
DeleteOops sorry yes, meant to write Klagenfurt instead of Vienna. Still early over here.
DeleteLJU - VIE net flight times were 25-40mins on a CRJ.I experienced everything in between, usually they were faster back to LJU as they could land immediately. Without a schengen passport control you could be in city city center in an hour using a train, rather convenient.
DeleteLH is not your friend.
ReplyDeleteLH looks after its own interest, as any company should.
DeletePeople in Adria don't understand profit and company's interest.
DeletePeople in our region don't understand profit and company's interest.
DeleteFixed!
+1 last anoon
Deletein the famous words of Mr. Maks Tajnikar: Adria is not here to make money but to fly passengers.
DeleteGood. I hope now the government gives up on this ludicrous idea.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it ludicrous to ask Lufthansa to help out and set up a new company? They tried.
DeleteBy ludicrous idea I mean setting up a new national airline.
DeleteOur government knew that LH will decline from the very beggining (demise of JP), therefore they linked the establishment of a new national carrier to LH opartivcipation. Now it's not their fault for not establishing it, but LH should be blamed.
DeleteOf course, this argumentation is for imbecile political purposes only.
Government is always objectively responsible for such situations.
Government is responsible for not setting up another loss-making airline?
Deletewell it all depends on your viewpoint. it may very well be loss making for the taxpayer, but it can certanly be lucrative and profitable for the sons/daugters/nephews/nieces that were/would be employed there based solely upon their merits and not on political shenanigans. let me just now find the sarcasm button...
DeleteNow now, there was never any nepotism in Adria. It was the fairest employer you could find anywhere in the world.
Deleteexactly. and the new company would hire only pure professionals with miles of experience, and no outsourcing of consulting contracts would be necessary. and no comissions would need to be paid for imaginary services rendered :D
DeleteToo bad. I was hoping for Lufthansa Slovenia :)
ReplyDeleteWe already had that. It was called Adria Airways.
DeleteOnce upon a time, there was Lufthansa Italia. Nothing happened as expected.
DeleteI'd suggest the Slovenian gov't try the AF/KL Group or why not IAG?
The problem is that the Slovenian market is small for any one of those major companies to care. Even in Croatia, which is a bigger market than Slovenia and would provide significantly more feed, no one is interested in Croatia Airlines.
DeleteShock... not.
ReplyDeleteHopefully we will put this discussion to end. Slovenian politicians needs a dose of a reality check.
Well at least they are trying to do something. Better than sit with their arms crossed.
DeleteI don't know what made politicians think that Lufthansa would magically set up an airline in Slovenia. If it wanted to it could have bought Adria years ago when it was put up for sale. It would have been such a strong buyer that it could have dictated all the terms to the government which would have done anything it was told by them.
ReplyDeletethey had to try something for public eyes
Delete+1000
DeleteWhy limit yourself to Germany and Lufthansa? They would have had a better chance of finding a partner outside of the EU with 49%/51% ownership structure.
ReplyDeleteWhere is SHS Aviation when you need it?
Deletelol. Don't give them ideas!
DeleteHad a non european company been interested it would have applied for the Adria tender years ago.
DeleteCircumstances have changed.
DeleteI don't get the minister's idea of a 12 fleet airline. Adria had 12 planes and look where it got them.
ReplyDeleteHe is full of great ideas. He was the one who oversaw Adria's sale to 4K Invest.
DeleteWhat is happening with the government's plans to subsidise airlines to fly to LJU?
ReplyDeleteNothing. Parliamentary committee has rejected the proposal and told the government to look at ways to set up a new airline (seriously).
DeleteWow...
DeleteInterestingly LJU Airport general manager said that offering subsidies would be a bad idea and that the market should stabilize first.
Deleteit seems that LH is darth vader of east european airline market
ReplyDeletewhatever LH does is pure evil
Adria bought by amateurs - LH is behind it
YU gets sued by Adria - LH is behind it
LH in talks with slovenian government - ha! they bankrupted adria, here is the proof
LH talks with government fail - those evil z germans!
garbage doesn't get picked up on thursday - LH criminals!
Any airline in ex-Yu they have strong connections with or helped set up has turned into an unprofitable feeder.
DeleteWhich company is YU?
Delete+1 Anon 10.11
DeleteOne would think people on here would know their codes.
And what about the airline that said it wants to open a base at Ljubljana Airport according to ex Adria employees?
ReplyDeleteThat will also likely never happen.
DeleteIt's probably an unrealistic dream by former Adria employees. If it wasn't something would have happened already.
DeleteI doubt they made it up.
DeleteThey probably didn't make it up and they were probably talking with Cityjet or Nordica... But it was still a longshot.
DeleteBut what happened?
DeleteThis will be a very unpopular opinion on here but it needs to be said. With JP going bust the Slovenian market will become somewhat irrelevant. While JP was around at least they had some action, some relevance. Now they will be a third or fourth tier airport that will barely have 1.3 million passengers. This was probably something local officials wanted to avoid.
ReplyDeleteI mean right now there are no departures before 9! That's a disaster but it's the reality and the truth.
Agree completely with you and I'm Slovenian. That's why, unlike many of my countrymen, I think Adria's bankruptcy will have a big impact on Ljubljana Airport and Slovenia. Time will show. A couple of flights by Swiss, Lufthansa and Brussels Airlines which many are celebrating as something spectacular won't make up for it.
DeleteWait for LH, LX and SN to adjust their schedule. Did people really think all these airlines have had aircraft waiting on the ground the entire summer, just to start the most optimum schedule the next day after JP went bust?
DeleteSome people really think Slovenia is the center of universe. Give it a year or two, and then see how the schedules look.
@9.32 people are benefiting from the fact that Brussels Airlines fares on LJU-BRU route are actually affordable. Adria's pricing on this route was out of this world.
Delete+1 last anon. The only people who could afford BRU tickets with JP were government and their entities, so Adria priced it at the "milking the taxpayers" prices, because nobody from the public sector actually looks at the prices, as long as it's convenient for them.
DeleteJU, LO, AF, HV... all responded in time to JP's demise so why couldn't LH Group? It's simple, they gave up on dominating the market now when they actually had to make money in Slovenia. It was easy in the past when JP flew at a loss.
DeleteMaybe LH will do a night stop in LJU once they adjusted the FRA-LJU schedule (maybe with summer schedule)?
DeleteThey will do it sooner or later. It is in their interest to capture the passengers connecting to long haul as well.
DeleteBut some people think only Adria was capable of flying morning departures out of LJU, while they themselves were flying a lot of early morning flights as a part of wet-leases last two summers from outstations to VIE and MUC.
One would think with their decades long experience they would see the light dangling in front of their eyes.
They are capturing long-haul flights like this but through Munich, they have an afternoon bank of departures.
DeleteHad the government been serious about this it would have started talks with Lufthansa well before Adria went bankrupt but when it was visible it would go bust.
ReplyDeleteMy question is what on earth is Ljubljana Airport doing. Waiting for airlines to flock to them? Go out and get some customers (airlines).
ReplyDeleteFor starters they could reduce their fees now that they have 40% of their capacity wiped out.
DeleteCan the concession business plan with the level of money transfers to the state and investments to the terminal and the rest of LJU facilities work with a 40% reduction in fees?
DeleteThey have no concession. They are own 100% of the airport.
DeleteThose numbers won't look good for LJU in October.
ReplyDeleteUnder EU rules, can a government even set up a 100% privately owned national carrier. I mean the start up capital has to come from government coffers.
ReplyDeletethat was meant to say 100% state owned national carrier, not privately owned.
DeleteLufthansa Group Eurowings should hurry for holidays season open flights FRA-PRN
ReplyDeleteFRA-TIA and more operate instead Adria.
They obviously do not intend to do it.
DeleteTIA as well as SJJ, SKP, SKG, SOF, OTP etc is well covered via BEG
ANON 10:14 - Covered to travel to BEG? PRN - FRA, PRN - LJU, TIA - LJU, SKP - LJU is a big issue.
DeleteFRA-PRN is well connected via VIE.
DeleteSince EW opened base in Pristina I guarantee Eurowings will base second aircraft in Pristina soon operate flights to Germany FRA and MUC instead of Adria.
Delete@anon 10:33 - Yeah right, i meant direct flights, all Europe is WELL Connected if you account 2 or more flights.
DeleteLufthansa could simply base 1 Eurowings plane in Ljubljana like they have done in Pristina. Would cover all that LJU needs.
ReplyDeleteIt's probably more expensive to do that in Ljubljana then it is in Pristina. Especially since Pristina gives incentives for airlines to base a plane there... unlike Ljubljana which is still sticking to its expensive pricing policy.
DeleteIn addition to the routes that LH Group is launching, which ones does Ljubljana really need?
ReplyDeleteWell according to LJU it is Skopje, believe it or not.
DeleteCan SKP route work with only O&D traffic or it was heavily dependent on transfers to the rest of JP's network?
DeleteApparently it had O&D because in that article published last week here, Skobir who is CEO of Ljubljana Airport said how Pristina and Tirana won't work anymore because they were routes purely serving transfer passengers while Skopje had a lot of point to point traffic (which surprised me to be honest).
DeleteIt shouldn't come as a surprise. Slovenian investments in these regions are high.
DeleteThey have JU :-)
DeleteWizz Air will most likely start SKP-LJU in 2020.
DeleteIsn't a 186 seat W6 aircraft too much capacity for this route?
DeleteIf they fly it twice per week, like they do most routes, I think it would be efficient.
DeleteWhat about Sarajevo? Mostly transfers too?
Deletelol Wizz will fly to LJU only if the Macedonian government gives them subsidies like they did for Turku and Larnaca.
DeleteSkopje is a good connection point for further destinations with Wizzair.
DeleteThat's not how it works especially not when almost all Wizz destinations from SKP are to western and northern Europe. In that case driving to Treviso is easier
DeletePerhaps Ljubljana Airport could have helped in these negotiations? It is run by Fraport after all.
ReplyDeleteWhy would that have an impact on Lufthansa?
DeleteI hope the government finds some other solution.
ReplyDeleteYes, the government has always proved to be very smart when it comes to aviation in Slovenian.
DeleteWell, this one at least doesn't seem to be keen on wasting money on another Adria-like loss-making project, without a long think.
DeleteQuite a refreshing surprise to be honest, didn't expect that.
+1
DeleteIf the SD party would lead the economy ministry they would have had signed two weeks ago at least 5 747-8 with Boeing. You know for export-inport spreading of national interest. The purple kind with 500 written on the paper.
DeleteI'm hopeful the government will stay out of setting up a new airline or any other aviation adventures. Their track record is atrocious.
ReplyDeleteAdria - sold to 4K and now dead
Maribor Airport - given to Chinese and now dead
Ljubljana Airport - given to Fraport and struggling
Adria was already on life support before it was sold, MBX was more or less dead before the sale, and LJU was doing great until Adria went bankrupt.
DeleteI have a feeling Lufthansa met with them in Frankfurt last week as a courtesy.
ReplyDeleteCorrect, probably between a coffee break and another one.
DeleteWell they tried. Gotta give them that.
ReplyDeleteActually AirFrance has currently (for specific days from November and further on) a nice offer from Ljubljana:
ReplyDeleteTajpei 408eu, Hong Kong 421 eu all round trip etc.
I don't remember such offers in the past.
Which air route the delegation led by the State Secretary within the Ministry for Economy of Slovenia took to Frankfurt?
ReplyDeleteBusiness class of course I suppose.
You can ride a direct train too:)
Meanwhile JU does really well in LJU.
ReplyDelete25.10 A319 in morning
26.10 B733 in morning
27.10 A319 in morning, 733 in evening
14.11 B733
15.11 B733 in morning, two more flights that day
Impressive.
DeleteGood job JU!
Maybe in summer 733/319 becomes a regular?
DeleteGreat job JU! Also LX with A220 on 27 Oct. and A320 on 03 Nov. (with just 1 economy seat available).
DeleteLJU is on fire!!!
DeleteHa ha ha. Well, TK1062 on Oct. 24 an 25 indeed with A330, otherwise mostly with A321.
DeleteI do not know if this data has been mentioned before (LH owns Fraport with 8,44% share) - this by all means affects LJU
ReplyDeleteShareholder Structure of Fraport AG:
State of Hesse: 31.31 %
Stadtwerke Frankfurt am Main Holding GmbH: 20.16 %
Deutsche Lufthansa AG: 8.44 %
Lazard Asset Management LLC: 5.02 %
Unkown: 35.07 %
Najveća moguća glupost. Slovenija da novac za aviokompaniju koja će LH voziti transferne putnike
ReplyDeleteBut there is on fact. Lufthansa have 8 percents of Fraport stocks.
ReplyDelete