Wednesday, March 11, 2015
The acting Managing Director of Belgrade Nikola Tesla Airport, Saša Vlaisavljević, has held talks with the commanding officer of Batajnica Airport, which is also located in the Serbian capital. The two discussed the joint development of general aviation, the challenges faced by Batajnica Airport, but also the use of the military airport as an alternative to Nikola Tesla Airport during its planned reconstruction and redevelopment in 2016. Batajnica Airport is located in the suburb of Batajnica, some 25 kilometres from the city centre. Used for military purposes, the airport has two runways and is located next to the country’s longest motorway. It also has a direct rail link to the city. Batajnica has been eyed as a potential alternative for low cost airlines over the past few years. It is the first time that it has been suggested that Nikola Tesla Airport could be closed during the planned redevelopment.
postoji u Batajnici neki terminal?
ReplyDeleteWhat "reconstruction and redevelopment"? This is the first time I hear anything about it!
ReplyDeleteWell it certainly is worthy considering putting to some actual money-making use an airport which is otherwise just sitting pretty most of the time. I for one would love to see it as a proper secondary Belgrade airport and a low-cost hub. However, something tells me it won't happen any time soon.
ReplyDeleteAfter BEG runway reconstruction, LCC lobby might want to sneak in to Batajnica and operate from there. Could it be that someone is trying to get rich by letting LCC operate from Batajnica? No one wants to be investigated for corruption, don't they?
DeleteNis Airport is ready for this.
ReplyDeleteDo you know that Lufthansa used Nis Airport in 1989. when Sofia Airport was closed because of reconstruction?
http://flyfromnis.blogspot.com/2014/09/pre-25-godina-lufthansa-letela-iz-nisa.html
Proci ce mnogo vremena (ako se ikada i desi) da Batajnica bude "konkurencija" Aerodromu Nikola Tesla. Potrebna su ogromna sredstva da se uloze u objekte infrastrukture prihvata i otpreme putnika. Batajnica ce biti alternacija samo par nedelja dok se ne zavrsi rekonstrukcija piste na BEG tokom 2016.
ReplyDeleteGood Lord. Just build a second runway at BEG and get it over with. Long-term planning was never popular among Serbian politicians.
ReplyDeleteMaybe there is no need for it now but as passenger numbers keep on growing so will the need for it. I don't see Thessaloniki, Budapest or Bucharest complaining about having a second runway.
If they are forced to move to Batajnica it will hurt Air Serbia the most. Imagine all of those connecting passengers who will be forced to go through that nightmare.
The government should get its act together and decide what it wants to do. Either give the airport to a concessionaire or keep it under your control but then make sure you expand the terminal and build a second runway.
Whoever says that BEG doesn't need a second runway obviously doesn't understand how the hub system works.
Ugh.
I guess you'll pay the bill? SAW just proves you the opposite xoxo
DeleteOf course I will pay for it. I pay taxes to both the government and the airport (when I travel).
DeleteAs for SAW, you do realise they are planning on building a second runway? So I don't see how it proves anything other than what I was saying.
SAW is at 20+ million pax.
DeleteThat's why he mentioned SKG, OTP and BUD.
DeleteYou mean YOU mentionned it. There are far more pressing issues at BEG than a second runway, period.
Delete^ Exactly, I really appreciate your comments Nemjee but you are not spot on this time. There is absolutely no need for 2nd runway as of now. Even at 20 million you theoretically don't need a new runway. Belgrade need expansion and renovation of the terminal building. T1 is a joke. Last year when I traveled some foreigners were like " what a dump". First renovation of T1 and then expansion of C gates.
DeleteExactly, that's why I mentioned Thessaloniki, Bucharest or Budapest.
DeleteI don't recall saying that the second runway should be the airport's top priority, maybe you should read more carefully.
I said that it's better to build it rather than to move the traffic to Batajnica. Once the second runway is complete then renovate the existing one.
If you paid closer attention to what I wrote then you would have noticed the following sentence:
'...make sure you expand the terminal and build a second runway.'
Besides the terminal (additional airbridges and bus gates) and a more efficient luggage sorting facility there aren't any things that are urgent.
Btw I would be very interesting to see what you guys are proposing as a solution.
DeleteSaying that they should simply move to Batajnica is not an option as the airport can't handle all that traffic especially since there is no terminal or adequate infrastructure. Does BEG even have enough stairs to give to Batajnica? Or would our government/airport have to buy new ones?
Well I am saying neither 2nd runway nor Batajnica. Serbia has two airport and those are BEG and Nis. For Nis it is enough to have 2-3 daily flight in future while BEG will not continue to grow at rate of 20% forever even though I wish it could. The economic situation in Serbia is very very bad and please I do not need BOTS to tell me its good. I have a number of "middle classed" friends who have never flown on an airplane, not even to TIVAT! We all have to remember that growth of ASL was primarily because of transfer pax and not because of Serbia pax. YES there is still a lot of expansion possible with transfer pax, but again I dont need bots to tell me that we can expand on transfer pax like Vienna. Overall, all ex yu nations are tiny dots in the aviation business. Heck even BUD and OTP are insignificant. Let the hate comments begin now, but this is reality.
Delete@Nemjee, you are just not getting it are you? There is NO need for a 2nd runway, full stop.
DeleteThe airport just needs to be managed in a correct and professional way. Get the right people to their job.
You guys are either ignorant or you don't understand what Nemjee is saying.
DeleteHe NEVER implied that second runway needs to be built because of high traffic.
He said, in his opinion, that alternative would be Batajnica or Nis for some time until complete overhaul is done. Thats all.
I personally don't know how long it takes to rebuild the runway, but to be honest, if its true that existing runway needs to be completely striped down and rebuilt, than what the man is saying makes absolute sense.
One, because there is no real alternative for BEG nearby.
Two, if you are rebuilding the whole runway, you may as well redo taxiways and update the whole design for 21st century and future BEG need.
So, if thats the case, that won't be done in a week. That I am sure of.
The only other alternative is to build a brand new one with everything in mind.
AGAIN, people generally here, in this case Nemjee, are not saying BEG need second runway for traffic management, in the near... and arguable far future, but for convenience and possibly monetary reasons.
Also, just go to Google Maps and have a look at those airports with 10-20mil pax and single runway ... notice the difference between them and BEG? They are far more organised and better planned than BEG.
Also, those 10-20 mil airports have other airports for general aviation and business jet traffic. BEG is the main airport for all of that in Serbia, and everyone has to share a single runway.
DeleteThank you. Finally someone who gets it.
DeleteI fully agree, if I understand correctly, this was done more-less every ten years (end of 80s, end of 90s), thus should continue to happen. BEG is already late in this reconstruction, so it is fair to assume that a lot of issues arise in construction and it might be delayed, etc.
DeleteBuild a second runway - eventually you will have to do it - since the construction costs are constantly rising in the last decades, it would be much cheaper now than in 10 or 20 years. Airport owns the land, has a number of projects on it - it should happen fairly easy.
Finish the construction, ideally, before the next construction season, or during the 2017, for winter 2017/18 use both runways (CATIII is very expensive, as I understand, so use the old runway in bad weather), and during construction season 2018 reconstruct the old one. While you do it, you can easily build a tunnel under it for a perspective raillink, everything can be done repaired and finished without fuss. At the same time, you already have construction machinery and logistics at the airport, so you can either wait till 2018/19 to start constructing new third terminal (and by then you will know if it is feasible or not) or if it is needed sooner you can start constructing it parallel with these works.
But this is Serbia, why do it cheap on the long-run, when you can do it more complicated and expensive since you don't plan or think longer than 2 years.
The solution is to enable the taxiway to be rebuilt and used as a temporary runway during the 12/30 reconstruction.
Deletehttps://www.google.rs/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=hXMBVbCrNIW5Ud20hLAC&url=http://www.flyelkonevada.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/TECHNICAL-DISCUSSION-ON-CONVERSION-OF-TAXIWAY-A-INTO-A-CONSTRUCTION-RUNWAY.pdf
DeleteIf regulations allow of course, here is such an example. I for one i've been arguing for the need of second runway for the last two years. If we browse through solutions we have:
THE BEST
- Second E-class runway being built where the current road to Ledine/Surcin is, price-tag up to half billion Euros, possibly more with the new remote stands, taxiways
THE CHEAPEST
- Enlarged taxiway used as runway during reconstruction phase, price tag will hardly go over 100-200 million Euros including the main runway refurbishment, yet new exits and stands in the area in front of the Tehnika hangars will have to be built anyway
BONUS - MY SOLUTION
Belgrade needs a second airport and low-cost hub similar to Budapest or SAW on a smaller scale. I would reconstruct Batajnica and open it for civilian traffic, attracting Ryanair or any other low-cost to open a base there. BEG builds a second runway out of loan or preferrably under concession agreement, together with cargo center, railway link etc. You could also include Batajnica into a one mega-concession and move staff from BEG once it gets new equipment. These are all huge investments but that would make complete sense in the long-long run.
Guys I completely get what you are saying, but then again it wont happen since your talking about Serbia. I also wish for a rail link, second runway, new terminal, hotel, etc. For now those are only dreams. Even if Vinci comes to you really think they will invest that much money?
Delete*do
DeleteExactly. That is why i say, upgrade Batajnica (ironically it already has a rail link) and convert the taxiway if possible as a temporary solution. The way it'll most probably happen is that sections of the runway will be closed independently, probably divided in two phases, 1700m+1700m. Widebody traffic will be impossible, even short-haul could have some restrictions. Those such as FlyDubai who carry lots of fuel should use Batajnica instead.
Delete@ Aэrologic:
DeleteWhy should the road to Surčin be used? Much more expensive than already owned land that was planed for second runway? (You have to 1 demolish the road, 2 relocate several technical facilities, 3 probably relocate NIS gas storage, 4 construct new alternative road, 5 probably buy some land - for new road certainly, 6 change the use of the land, billion of regulatory plans, additional feasibility and ecological studies, etc.).
Btw I think the second airport is just way too expensive and impractical, it is easier and better to build second runway, new dedicated low-cost terminal - the prices and managing of it as if it were a new airport. (Just take into account double administration that would be needed, not to mention that you would have two airports below 6 mil. passengers, simply useless.) One airport with more passengers would be more visible on global map, should once the need arise, nothing easier than to convert Batajnica. (In my opinion, this could allow for better utilization of newest technology trends, say in 50-100 years air travel might drastically change, so you have a more or less Batajnica clean slate to build the latest state-of the art airport, while at this moment you can construct T3 to be the most up-to date with current aviation trends.)
Vasingtonskver, from where are you going to get the money for "state of art terminal 3 and second runway". How you guys don't get that we are talking about Serbia after all. Nobody will invest a billion euros ( much more if your talking about your famozni second runway) into this airport unless they get concession forever ( even then I highly doubt). I SUPPORT IDEA OF SECOND RUNWAYS and NEW TERMINAL WHICH IS NEEDED BADLY, but not in Serbia man. May I ask if you live outside of Serbia since I think you guys are over imagining things just like beograd na vodi. ( all of you, also the people who say batajnica should open). I will always counter your argument by saying from where will you get the money. The economic situation in Serbia is catastrophic, the best we can expect is renovation of T1 and maybe just maybe extra few gates on C wing.
DeleteI am not hating Croatia or whatever you say, I am just realist and you guys are in search of a miracle when it comes to BEG.
The best and probably cheapest thing to do would be to actually displace the CAT I ILS and extend the runway 30 at BEG as of now to 4000m, so that once a section is closed, the airport can still be perfectly functional and will never be left with less than 2250m of operational runway which is the minimum for A320/737 families of jets (taking into account the safety standards and margins) which make up 90% of current traffic. That way we can bypass all the Batajnica-related investments and adjacent organizational challenges while although not a second - which is anyway not needed, Belgrade will get a 4000m long refurbished runway capable of handling absolutely any type of aircraft at MTOW what should also upgrade BEG's ICAO airport status.
DeleteIt's very simple, the runway at BEG is more then in a need for a reconstruction, it's just to old. In order to reconstruct the runway while keeping the airport open, there's a window of 4 hrs per night. This is extremely tight. 2nd runway?! Why? There's no need since there are companies specializing in technically organizing airports and by that double the capacity. The existing but working runway would be more then enough for the next 20 years. Still a 2nd runway? in which direction? parallel to the existing one? What's the point in spending 50 meur of getting the same as you have and then you would still have to fix the first runway. Another direction? Can't do, because the land issues surrounding the airport. Batajnica doesn't have two functioning runways, it has one somewhat functioning and not for all aircrafts. It has to do with load factor when landing and takeoff. There's a lot at stake at BEG at the moment.
ReplyDeleteThe shape of the runway doesn't allow flights from the US to land and take-off with ful load, Air Serbia will be in the shits. The passenger flow at the airport is not optimal in any way to allow any major increase in passenger numbers. The luggage handling system is not working and a major concern for Air Serbia as well as all other airlines.
The airport is in desperate need of a complete analysis based on the master plan for the airport.
Totally agree. Batajnica has one runway, 500 m shorter then NT, no ISL, the runway is NOT in shape to receive civilan aircraft, this is not any Mig-29's. Even if all the infrastructure is in place, it's not just to land an airplane with +200 pax and hope for the best. There are serious rules and regulations which has no chance of being fulfilled by a military airfield that once upon a time had something to offer. In order to get it up to shape it needs HUGE investments.....something that Serbia doesn't have for a temporary solution. This is just another crazy ad-hoc idea!!!! Bring in the specialists!!!!
DeleteBatajnica is lousy alternative to BEG for weather related causes, two airports have identical conditions.
ReplyDelete2nd to that.
DeleteI remember hearing that a couple years ago but never believed it. Batajnica is less than 30km away from BEG.
Delete2nd runway? A simple way of finding the facts, go to Google Maps, look at Nikola Tesla, take the measurements and try to fit it in between the roads or the houses....hhmm. Not possible without moving the roads....hhmm, how many years of work will that take and then you still have to start with the land issue!!!! Or you put a 2nd runway next to the 1st runway.....and you have achieved.......nothing. Please stop the stupidity in time.
ReplyDelete@Nemjee
DeleteYou might want to take a look at the proposed airport expansion from the 1980s which also included a 2nd runway.
Deletehold on, hold on ... how did you get to the conclusion the there is no space without moving roads and houses???
DeleteDid you look at all to the west and south of the current terminal??
@Spale: Look at the map.....there's NO space without moving roads and houses, if you go south you will have to invest huge sums in infrastructure, which it just not there and besides that you will still have to look at the landissue....so a 2nd runway is for a million reasons not possible. You just have to fix what you have.
DeleteThere is more than enough space next to the road which takes you to Ledine.
DeleteEven the factory/warehouse can be moved as it's build on land leased out from BEG.
The additional runway would be placed in the empty area between BEG and Surcin, just east of the E75.
In addition, BEG owns the land where second runway should be built. (As I understand that is a single most expensive item in building the additional runways around the world.) No lengthy paperwork and trials, expropriation, and other stuff.
Delete@Nemjee, it doesn't change anything. 80's is a long time ago with totally different profit demands (none). In the 80's you had governments using the airport as the window of the country and it is very much the same today, expect that it has to make money. It doesn't change the facts, the runway is on the shits, needs a re-construction (not overhauls). The runway was constructed according to the technology adopted by the JNA in 1965 for military airports. This is looong gone. Forget Batajnica for the reasons given above. Cost for re-constructing the runway could easily run to 50-60 meuro. Serbia does NOT have that kind of money. Then you have to re-construct the terminal buildings, taxiways......etc etc......you cannot add a 2nd runway. Take a very short look at the geography....land issues, the land north of the airport was bought years ago by private knowledgeble and people. One purpose - waiting for the 2nd runway.......IKEA has had the same issue for 15 years. Forget a 2nd runway. However is responsible has to get it thru his head that he has one runway and it needs to be sorted out NOW incl all the crap going on at the airport.
ReplyDeleteSorry for all the misspelling....but I think that you all are getting the message.
ReplyDeleteThe worst thing is that Air Serbia is pushing forward and actually getting things done, the airport itself will bring them down during the year due to the inability of the Government to get the right people at the top of it's companies such as the airport. The airport will not be able to meet the demands of Air Serbia which ironically has the same owner....
If they plan to fix the runway in 2016, they can do it just before or after the summer season. Probably better to do it before the summer season and before widebody service starts.
ReplyDeleteI fear that some of you are forgetting one important thing.
ReplyDeleteThe one runway we have now WILL close next year for renovation. We are discussing here what should happen when that happens... not if but when it happens.
BEG will be shut down during the whole period of renovation. Moving the operations to Batajnica will destroy Air Serbia and it will take months, maybe even years before it manages to get back all of the connecting passengers it lost. Second of all, Batajnica doesn't have the necessary infrastructure to handle all that traffic.
Moving the flights to Nis is not an option either. The only one who could do it is Wizz Air as they will already operate some flights out of there.
So tell me... what option do we have? Building the second runway seems like the lesser of the two evils.
Obviously, if the runway didn't need renovations then the situation would have been totally different.
OMG man! Even if it closes there are two choices
Delete1) Being closed during month of February when loads are so bad that its better that ASL doesnt fly at all lol ( too far but you get what I am saying_
2) Repairs everyday from 12 to 5 for a couple of month
Are you really saying that BEG should embark on a journey of around 1/2 billion euros just because airport might be closed for a month or month and a half. Forget about transfer pax for one month, do u really think ASL will lose that many transfer pax for even 2 months??? Also do not book tranfer pax during that time.
Because of 1 month closure we should build a new runway, great logic!
DeleteYeah, because your logic is just wonderful. After all, you are right. Who needs to fly out of BEG when we are going to have like 5 weekly flights out of INI.
Deleteyea my logic does make sense, 1 month closure of BEG is not end of world.
DeleteNemjee is totally out of reality. The funny thing is that i remember him arguing few months ago about how BEG doesn't need a second runway no matter what...
DeleteWOW, just close the airport during February because of poor loads hahahahahah
DeleteSo next time we update some broadband infrastructure we should shut down the nations internet service because not many people go online during summer holidays???
Some people depend on airlines flying every day from a city. You can't just cut the off from the world because "loads are bad" and outs guys, we forgot to rebuild the runway.
And for Nis and Batajnica ... come on people, do you even know how much luggage is handled on daily basis in BEG? The whole terminal in Nis would be filled with just luggage.
DeleteBatajnica... well thats just plain stupid.
Spale I agree that shutting an airport is not good at all and that many business people would have issue. but I was arguing that its better to close an airport for 1 month then to build a new runway worth large amounts of euros which Serbia cannot afford now.
Deleteand yea there should be hahahah since I meant that in an ironic way
DeleteAnonymousMarch 12, 2015 at 12:49 AM
DeleteYes and I still believe that for this number of passengers BEG doesn't need a second runway but if the airport has to be shut down for three months then the lesser of the two evils is to invest in the future and build the second runway. Do you see the difference now or do I need to put it in even simpler terms so that you can understand it?
Furthermore, your whole argument relies on the fact that BEG will be closed for one month which seems to be wrong. As some people wrote on here it will take at least 3 months.
Maybe we can use the three slowest months and do it then? How about October, November and December? I mean, people who will be going for holidays can just fly out of Nis or travel out of BUD, like in the good old days. ;)
Finally, who said that the government will fund this project? BEG is highly profitable and they can get a loan and repay it without the help of our government.
I am not engineer, but isn't building anything in winter a bit of a problem? You know, ice, snow, freezing temperatures, fog, etc.?
DeleteThere are No decision being made so far on HOW to fix the issue with the runway. Before you can take a decision you need to know what options you have. At BEG nobody has a clue of what to do, they are just kicking the bucket down the road....when you know what to do, you have to go into a tender process, then you have to do the contract....then the winning party has to start planning, the planning takes about 12 months ahead of project start. You need to bring machines, raw material etc.....this is a huge task. 2016 is gone, you are looking at 2017. Which in turn means that Air Serbia will be in the shits with their plans for their expansion already as it is.This is the normal none ability of planning ahead in the Balkans, simple as that. Shit will take place and it's coming fast.
ReplyDeleteBatajnica is NOT a solution as described above. Nothing on this planet can fix that.
Nis is just like you say to far away and not only that, they do not have any ISL and without that the airlines can't depend on them. Please note that any ISL in Serbia is paid and owned by SMATSA, which just by following the rules and regulations of Euro control already have rejected any ISL installation at Nis. There are just not enough safety margins with the city on one side and the mountain on the other. I think that they forgot to tell WizzAir about this small but important fact.
Again, please read the comments above in regards of a 2nd runway. This train is heading down the rails with no captain....
The only option is to have somebody who knows what he's doing to come in and organize things.....2nd, get somebody who knows how to fix a runway in there, very, very fast.
Exactly 2 week closure of the runway and grounding of ASL for 2 weeks would definitely not be a disaster like some members here think.
Delete@10.58 hrs. Are you serious? 2 weeks of closing? And what are you gonna do for those 2 weeks, drink coffee? You might do 3 meters per night, if you are lucky and you do not hit any obstacles!!! You are talking about 3 months.....
DeleteWhat is ISL? :)
Deleteok even 3 months closure is better than spending 1/2 billion on new runway.
DeleteYea half billion for new runway, maybe less but you get the value of new runway. Runway is a HUGE investment which our government has no capability to do. INSTEAD OF DEBATING ABOUT RAISING SALARIES AND PENSIONS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING A NEW RUNWAY WHICH IS WORTH AT LEAST 300 million!!!!!!!!!!!
Delete@10.55: half a billion? With a reconstruction speed of 3 meters per night (4 hrs) you are looking at 100 nights, if everything works out perfect. And we all know that perfect thing......so we are looking at minimum of 3 months of work to reconstruct the runway. You cannot gamble on that the weather will be nice, so April-May-June.....if you don't do Oct-Nov-April......the shit is gonna hit the fan.
ReplyDeleteYea half billion for new runway, maybe less but you get the value of new runway. Runway is a HUGE investment which our government has no capability to do. INSTEAD OF DEBATING ABOUT RAISING SALARIES AND PENSIONS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BUILDING A NEW RUNWAY WHICH IS WORTH AT LEAST 300 million!!!!!!!!!!! Because of people like you country is in deep s**t
DeleteHmm you do realise that the money for this project would not come from the national budget but it would be, most likely, paid by the airport. So salaries and retirement cheques are highly irrelevant in this discussion.
DeleteAnonymous 12:24: Do you have a problem with reading and understanding? My entire argument is that it is not possible and not necessary to build a 2nd runway. You can think whatever you want that I put this country in the shitts etc, I'm just pointing out the facts, something has to be done about the situation otherwise it will draw more problems with it. If you have a problem, but chose not to face and fix it you will end up in more problem. The facts being that the runway is in the shits, if you like it or not.
ReplyDelete@Nrmjee: I actually don't think that they have the money needed. The airport is not that profitable, forget the press release from this month. An idiot must have written it. You can go to the Belgrade Stock Exchange and look at the financial results for 2014 up until 4qtr, look at the NET results and you can see that the numbers presented in the above mentioned press release is just impossible. And by the way, canceling investment decisions has nothing to do with profitability anybody with some basic knowledge in accounting understands that. They will have to go to EBRD and there's nothing wrong with that.
ReplyDeleteWell, they do make enough money in order to get a loan from one of the big banks. They don't have to fund the whole project from their own income.
DeleteYea get a loan and then Serbian taxpayers will have to pay it back. No problem, increase prices of electricity and food. Lower salaries and pensions and there you go new runway yay.
Delete