The President of Serbia, Aleksandar Vučić, has said Air Serbia will introduce flights to Toronto as its third destination in North America after services to Chicago are inaugurated in April of next year. The President did not give exact details on when flights to Canada would be introduced. Mr Vučić also confirmed earlier reports that services to the Chinese city of Tianjin will commence this December. “I have some good news, Siniša Mali [Serbian Finance Minister] has just called to inform me that Air Serbia will commence nonstop flights to Tianjin in China this December. That is big news. Next April, nonstop services to Chicago will be launched, and after that Toronto as well. So, Belgrade, and a small country like Serbia, will have nonstop flights to New York, Beijing - Tianjin, Chicago, and Toronto”, Mr Vučić said while opening a new production plant.
Air Serbia has been exploring the potential launch of flights to Toronto for several years and has held talks with Pearson Airport in the past. Last year, the Canadian Ambassador to Serbia, Giles Norman, said bureaucratic conditions have been met for the launch of flights between Belgrade and Toronto and that it was up to Air Serbia to decide whether it will introduce the transatlantic service. “In May 2018, Canada and Serbia signed an Air Transport Agreement as part of the ongoing process of acquiring the necessary permits to allow direct Air Serbia flights between Belgrade and Toronto. The Embassy of Canada has supported the Serbian national air carrier’s efforts in receiving these permits, but the decision on further developments is with Air Serbia. The introduction of a direct flight between Canada and Serbia would be highly welcomed by the large Serbian and regional diaspora in Canada, as well as businesses from both countries as it would encourage the further expansion of growing economic ties between the two nations”, Mr Norman said.
Air Serbia has so far confirmed a new one weekly service to Tianjin starting this winter, and a two weekly service to Chicago from the 2023 summer season, which begins in late March of next year. Commenting on Toronto, Air Serbia’s CEO, Jiri Marek, recently said, “Our main strategy is to target cities that have year-round potential. We do not want to increase seasonality, which is already high in our region. That's one of the reasons we favour Chicago over Toronto, for example, because the Canadian city is not only extremely seasonal, but also extremely unidirectional. At the beginning of the season the flights are full in one direction, and at the end of the season in the other direction”.
Air Serbia plans to operate up to five wide-body aircraft in the future as it prepares to take delivery of its second twin-aisle jet in the coming weeks. “In 2023 we will operate two Airbus A330s. If China proves to be a success story and the markets open up, we could increase to three aircraft. In the long-term, I can imagine a fleet size of around five aircraft on long haul routes”, Mr Marek recently said. He added, “The two aircraft we will be using now are the A330 Ceo, which offer good value for money. We already have a lot of experience operating this aircraft”.
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Expected
ReplyDeleteSo are we talking about these starting next year or in 2024?
ReplyDeleteProbably 2024
DeleteI really hope flights materialize sooner rather than later.
DeleteCan't wait to see them in Toronto.
ReplyDeleteWith JFK, Tianjin and Chicago, they would have to get a third A330 to start Toronto.
ReplyDeleteToronto has huge ex-yu and Balkan diaspora. I hope Air Serbia sees the potential in these flights.
ReplyDeleteHow big are the Greek and Albanian communities in Toronto?
DeleteI think the Greek community is the second biggest European diaspora after the Italian one.
DeleteHuge communities in all Balkan diaspora.
DeleteBalkan diaspora is in total around 250k in Toronto. 40% of them is Greek 15% Croatian 10% Serbian 10%Macedonian 10%Albanian 10% Slovenian 8% Bulgarians 6% Romanians(propably much higher but no offcial stats about Romanians) and 1% Montenegrins. Only Athens and Zagreb are seasonal served from Toronto with Air Canada and Air Transat so this could defenitly work for JU.
DeleteThis could have definitely worked for OU as well. But,.....
DeleteWow, what a plot twist. Is this possible with only two A330? If so, Toronto could be launched in 2023.
ReplyDeleteIt is possible with 2 planes. YYZ x2, ORD x2, TSN x1, second plane JFK x6
DeleteThat's tight.
DeleteYYZ is only about 85nm longer than JFK so it would fit. ORD is longer and TSN would have to circle around closed airspace so those two would need some creative scheduling and agressive turnaround times. As long as they don't increase JFK to daily it should be doable.
DeleteToronto navijači u transu
ReplyDeleteHahaha pa kako ne bi bili.
DeleteOvo je neviđeni triler u avijaciji 😂😂
Još samo Lagos.
DeleteNe, izvinite, ali rollercoaster koji doživljavaju Toronto navijači je nista naspram Lagosa😂
DeleteWaiting to hear Toronto being confirmed by Air Serbia source. That's what counts.
ReplyDeleteTrue dat.
DeleteWhat kind of country is that where president of the sovereign nation is announcing plans of an airline company? AirSerbia doesn't have CEO or PR department to issue such statements?
ReplyDeleteThe airline company is almost fully state owned and the government is the main shareholder.. Certainly doesn't need your permission.
DeleteOfcourse it doesn't need permission. BUT, you would always hope that the president doesn't contradict the guy he employs to run the airline. Otherwise, why employ an expert when you can just have one of your trusted loyalists execute your plans for the airline ?
DeleteHe‘s neither the JU‘s owner nor the government member so nothing makes sense.
DeleteHe actually needs the permission but I guess JU just went with it knowing that autocracy rules the country.
Where does he contradict the CEO? The CEO said why they chose Chicago first over Toronto. He never said they would not fly to Toronto.
DeleteWith or without the announcement, it was more than obvious that Toronto would be the next destination after Chicago. Did you think they would ignore the Canadian market? The reason the CEO mentioned Toronto in the first place is because it was between Chicago and Toronto to launch next April.
DeleteПа ви знате да је и Србији све наопако па тако о најава летова спада у дужности председника државе.
DeleteБиће да си ти наопак па не знаш да то раде и у другим малим земљама.
DeleteThe major issue with YYZ from BEG is seasonality.
ReplyDeleteJust make it a seasonal route.
DeleteExactly, make sure seasonal service works. Then extend the season. Then increase frequency if possible. Going year round should be the last step and only if there is evidence it would perform well.
DeleteDa je tako, severno americke kompanije ne bi nikad zimi leteli za Evropu... Potrudite se malo da ne bude velika sezonalnost:)
DeleteSeasonality and unidirectional.
DeleteNorth American airlines fly many seasonal routes to Europe. In the winter they shift capacity to South America or other destinations. For example Air Transat seasonal service to ZAG or United Airlines seasonal to DBV. There is no reason to force year round service.
DeleteI just wonder how 40 years ago, in the ages of darkness, fear and poverty, behind the iron curtain (LOL), JAT, Pan Am and Air Canada successfully operated during winter season multiple daily flights between ex-yu and North America? Are you telling those services were forced? Or the demand today is lower than in those difficult poor unhappy dark (LOL) times?
DeleteAsk those airlines why they operate seasonal service, they made the decision not to fly during winter.
DeleteLOL Pozdrav, it is always funny to hear all the celebration about routes today that were running forty years ago. I am glad we are finally getting back to the connectivity we had back then. I just hope the progress continues and global events and local politics don't prompt us to backslide again. I think these routes can be successful year-round as there are holidays, vacations, and business to be conducted throughout the year.
Delete@pozdrav iz Rijeke 13:57
DeleteThis is easy; 40 years ago the flights did not need to be profitable or respond to the market forces. Everything was regulated including the prices. Companies set fixed prices. The seasonally full flights fill up quickly. Other flights fly empty. It doesn't matter because Mama Government is covering the bill. For better or worse, we don't live in those times any more. I do agree that if a market (like YYZ to the Balkans) will only bear highly seasonal VFR traffic, it needs to live with 1-stop connections, which are far more economically efficient (and can even out the seasonality by combining with other route combinations with different characteristics). Like it or not, nonstop connections to secondary markets (and BEG, being #80 or so among European airports in traffic volume, is a secondary market) are a premium product and the market needs to be able to support it.
Wrong @An.15.30
DeleteFlights and companies had to be profitable even at that times. Do you want a list of failed and bankrupt companies from those times? Prices were not regulated. In case of JAT, prices were one of major marketing tools. Winter flights were not empty. For Market and Mama Government objections, I can just say two words : Cartel and LOL. And nonstop long-haul connections to secondary markets with lower capacity aircraft are future. But you are more than welcome to continue thinking everything in the past was wrong and everything today is perfect. Cheers!
Pozdrav again shows how little he knows about aviation business. But that doesn't matter since he was profesional uhljeb in aviation sector 30 years ago.
DeleteComparasion of aviation 40 years ago with aviation today just shows you know nothing about it.
DeleteSure you work. Did you do your job and made mega hub in Zagreb with flights to Cleveland?
I don't work for croatian company. In order to work in Croatia, one needs to have Kradeze booklet, or to be supporter at least. There is life outside Uhljebistan Hrvatistan , you know. And you are right, comparison of aviation 40 years ago with aviation today was not good thing to do. Because everywhere, but literally everywhere around the Globe, the smallest and poorest countries included, aviation grew immensly. The only exception being Hrvatistan, Uhljebistan, which today has less options than 40 years ago. Cleveland is something you deliberately making up, what I never ever mentioned. Which shows clearly I don't need to say anything about you even today. You just did it yourself once again 😃
DeleteThe route will perform very well, especially if they attract more transfer passengers, because OS failed on this market.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, JU will perform very well, especially if they attract more transfer passengers, because OS failed on this market while trying to do exactly the same thing. Hmmm.
DeleteSeems Vucic is underoccupied when he is the one who announces new routes of Air Serbia.
ReplyDeleteMove on.
DeleteVucic is probably one of the most proactive politicians in the region. He was busy opening up a new factory, as the article says, when he announced this. I love his approach. You can always get lot's of juicy details from his comments.
DeleteYeah, like how a sociopath operates.
DeleteMany examples of politicians from small countries announcing important aviation news. Look it up.
DeleteLong overdue in my opinion
ReplyDeleteI hope some serious discussions with JU have started. It will benefit the Serbian diaspora.
ReplyDeleteA market they could get quite a lot of feed from for YYZ is Macedonia. That is if they offer some competitive prices and good connections.
ReplyDeleteNot quite sure, LOT, TK and OS are very well positioned regarding this route, but the more competition the better I guess
DeleteIf Air Serbia were to eventually launch these flights, a codeshare with Air Canada would be very beneficial and would guarantee more passengers.
ReplyDeleteAir Canada codeshares with Lufthansa to Belgrade.
DeleteSince recently Air Canada frequent flyer and Air Serbia frequent flyer cooperate and you can earn miles on each. So there is some form of cooperation.
Delete@9.37
DeleteAir Canada's codeshare with Lufthansa ended a while ago.
I believe Air Canada and Air Serbia already have an interline or maybe even an SPA agreement.
DeleteHa wasn't aware that the LH/AC codeshare ended on this route. Thanks anon 09:41.
DeleteAir Canada does have active codeshare with Lufthansa from Belgrade, for example AC9167
DeleteThis route would be good for cargo too.
ReplyDeleteIs there so many import/exports between Canada and Serbia?
DeleteIt's not just about Canada and Serbia it's about the entire region. JU has a lot of cargo on the New York route and a lot of it is from the region.
DeleteWould love to see that plane in Toronto :)
ReplyDeleteSerbs around Toronto in Misisoga and Kichener has a lot airplanes already. Only 30k Serbs live that it is blown of proportions. More Serbs live in Pensilvania than Chikago and Canada.
DeleteDepends on how you count ethnic population in greater Toronto area. Do you count first, second, third generation?
Delete1-2 hour driving time from YYZ you have 250,000 to 300,000 Balkan people 1st and 2nd generation.
Toronto 25,160
DeleteHamilton 10,000
Vancouver 7,690
Mississauga 5,930
Here is a great video of YU-ARA landing in YYZ
Deletehttps://youtu.be/LJzJtMXPx1s
Snow showers in JFK closed the airport resulting in the diversion to YYZ.
These flights would benefit the Serbian diaspora.
ReplyDeleteNot just Serbian but part of ex-Yu/Balkan as well.
DeleteMore waste of taxpayer's money to fund Air Serbia's vanity project!
ReplyDeleteLow on Xanax?
DeleteAir Serbia is not a vanity project. It's the only fully-fledged flag carrier in the region with potential that's got a very prospective future. So rather focus on your own wilted backyard before voyeuring our growing fruits of labour.
DeleteLong haul is the only way (truly the only way) for JU to fulfill hub ambitions and to reach profitability, combined with dense regional and wide European network.
DeleteLol. AS use money very smart expanding routes and fleet, while OU is throwing money or similar companies. AS is better than any company in any neighbor country. So, don't be jelaous
DeleteThey will never fly to Alaska.
DeleteWhat could be the frequency to YYZ?
ReplyDeleteProbably the same as Chicago, 2 weekly initially.
DeleteIt will be stupid not to have Chicago to 4 times a week during the Summer season. In the other hand Toronto can be hit or miss and will also depend on cargo .
DeleteToronto region has about the same amount of Balkan people as does Chicago. Why would YYZ be hit or miss?
DeleteI will believe it when I see it.
ReplyDeleteI doubt it will be before summer 2024.
ReplyDeleteEkonoski tigar u akciji
ReplyDeleteMozda nije ekonomski tigar, mozda je predsjednik autokrat, ali vas bar nije sram kad pogledate mrezu linija Air Serbie kao sto je mene sram kada pogledam mrezu linija Croatia Airlinesa.
DeleteKad se uporedi sa ostalim "regionalinim" igracima, onda je ocigledno da je tigar a oni male mace.
DeleteVanity project!
DeleteIt's not vanity project. It's the only way to survive and eventually become profitable, by growing, developing main hub, and having transfer passengers and cargo. What LOT, Aegean, Austrian, Air Baltic and many others are doing. And what Croatia Airlines is deliberately refusing to do, singing Danke Deutschland instead and buying the most expensive aircraft to continue feeding Cartel
DeleteIt is a vanity project!
DeleteFeeding the so-called cartel FOR MONEY!! What other cartels does OU feed, given the fact they also fly to London, Amsterdam, Paris, Copenhagen, Rome, Sarajevo, etc??
DeleteAir Serbia confirmed some time ago JFK service is profitable, therefore it is not a vanity project. It makes money, not to mention secondary benefits.
DeleteHahahaha feeding Cartel for money. True. Tax payers money. It will be for money (and please don't scream on the net, it's not nice), when they become profitable
DeletePlus Rome and Sarajevo combined have less frequencies than Munich. London, Amsterdam and Paris have less frequencies than Frankfurt. Copenhagen belongs to the Cartel, same as Brussels, Zurich and Vienna. And here I rest my case.
DeleteBack in 1994, Croatia Airlines was supposed to start flights to 3 North American destinations : New York, Chicago, and Toronto, with ex - LH DC-10 's. Flights were even published in timetables, locally and globally. These are 3 market with guaranteed success from ex-yu, and I hope at least Air Serbia will be operating all 3 of them, when Croatia Airlines didn't do it because of crime, corruption, individual interests and particular benefits of selected individuals.
ReplyDeleteHow long would BEG-YYZ take in terms of flying hours?
ReplyDeleteClose to 9.45hr there and maybe 8.45hr back?
DeleteHere is the timetables of the 2 attempts JU made at relaunching YYZ after the breakup of SFRY:
DeleteAttempt #1:
Planned relaunch date: 11.07.2002
JU560 BEG YYZ 1615 2015 DC10
JU561 YYZ BEG 2130 1240+1 DC10
Attempt #2:
Planned relaunch date: 01.06.2006
JU560 BEG YYZ 1000 1300 B762
JU561 YYZ BEG 1505 0630+1 B762
2 B767-200's were expected to join the fleet with a configuration of 18J 198Y. DXB was expected to be another route for JU with the B762. ORD and YUL were to follow. Confirmed to be joining the fleet was an aircraft registered N330LF which was being operated by Polet. Jat crew were expected to do the B767 training in Sweden.
Fun fact: JU560 flight number is currently used for VCE.
@JATBEGMEL
DeleteInteresting! Why did the B762 plans fall out, do you know?
Dva Erbasa A330 Er Srbije nije dovoljno da sa redovnim letovima za Njujork, Tianjin i Cikago moze da opsluzuje dva, tri leta za Tornto. Tek posle treceg A330 aviona moguc je redovan saobracaj za Toronto i jos neku destinaciju. Pogodno i za povremenu upotrebu u carter saobracaju za Egipat, Tajland, Sejsele, Tursku... Buduci razvoj Er Srbije ce omoguciti cetiri sirokotrupna aviona. Iducih pet do sest godina realno je da ce se ostvariti.
ReplyDeleteI hope CEO is following President's activities so he can learn what are carrier's plans for next season.
ReplyDeleteThe President knows what the carrier's plans are for next season from the CEO.
DeleteCEO said just a month ago Toronto is not in plans due to its high seasonality.
DeleteNo. Read what he said. He it actually even quoted in the article. He said why they chose Chicago over Toronto. He never said it was not in their plans.
DeleteHe said it: "We do not want to increase seasonality", "Canadian city is not only extremely seasonal, but also extremely unidirectional".
DeleteAnd basic logic rule says: if A (Toronto)=B (seasonal) and B (seasonal)=C (we don't want it), then A (Toronto)=C (we don't want it).
The fact that he mentions Toronto shows that they were deciding between ORD or YYZ. So it's very much in their sights.
DeleteYes, they were and they decided not to proceed with Toronto.
DeleteLet's face it, JU will be operating this route whenever it happens.
ReplyDeleteIt would be fantastic to be linked with Canada in addition to USA.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with president announcing it, as long as it happens.
ReplyDeleteThe route will be profitable imo - especially if they decide to do regional cargo with those old atrs as well...
Let's see, ASL is the only actual carrier in exyu region now...sadly
+1
DeleteIs there any airline in Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary or Romania to fly directly to Canada?
ReplyDeleteI believe Air Canada flies to Budapest.
DeleteRouge used to fly to BUD, not anymore, only Transat flies to ZAG.
DeleteI believe the question was about companies from BG, GR, HU, RO (and ex-yu). And the answer is NO. The Cartel is taking care of the region.
DeleteGreece has for the summer season Air Canada and Air Transat to Toronto and Montreal .
DeleteAir Canada and Air Transat are not southeastern Europe, ex-yu or Balkan companies. And as such, they are allowed to compete with the Cartel, in limited quantities. "Lower race companies" from above mentioned countries are not allowed to enter the Cartel space. One reason more I keep my fingers crossed for JU to start YYZ
DeleteNormal countries have a COO announcing such stuff. We have Vucic!
ReplyDeleteVucic works for the largest shareholder of the company and the guy that informed him of these plans is on the board of Air Serbia. What’s the problem?
DeleteThe problem is that it is not his job. He can't be out of the media for one day. He loves to one-up anyone and everyone. He can comment on JU once such news is made public by Air Serbia. But show some respect to JU and allow them to make such announcements.
DeleteHe doesn't have to act like the CEO for every company in Serbia.
At the end of the day, if it wasn't for him there would be no Air Serbia and Wizz Air would be the de facto national airline today with exciting routes such as Hahn and Vaxjo.
DeleteMay be true. But does he also announce when routes are canceled? Layoffs? Fare increase?
DeleteCan we contact him when has a delayed flight?
A launch of a notable international long haul route which has the same political as it does commercial weight is more important than a flight delay. Just deal with it.
DeleteI hope you realize one day that it is not the place of the president of a country to make such announcements. There is something called respect and integrity for institutions, which he does not have.
DeleteI hope you realize one day that an aviation forum is not the place to voice your political frustrations and that few people care about them.
DeleteAgain, it is his place as he works for the shareholder that keeps pumping funds into the airline. As long as the shareholder (the tax payers) is investing in JU I would prefer him to promote the airline.
DeleteHe is an integral part of our individual and collective destinies and our own fridge content. He will remain unstoppable in having his fingers in everything under the blue sky that happens in Serbia. He is that capable...
DeleteYou said it brotha.
DeleteDoes anyone know how many pieces od checked luggage in economy class on BEG-JFK are allowed? I assume the same will be allowed for YYZ. If two, that would be great incentive for our people to use JU. They always have so much to bring back and forth.
ReplyDeleteLOT allows two pieces and Balkan people love this.
You are allowed two pieces of luggage to JFK on Air Serbia.
DeleteNice, thanks.
DeleteIt is two pieces of checked in luggage and one carry on. I always take my laptop with my carry on and there is no charge for it as well.
ReplyDeletetake a quick look up.
DeleteDoes Air Serbia offer a service to send flight status updates via email or SMS messages to passengers?
ReplyDeleteYes. They do both.
DeleteCan an A321XLR do YYZ-BEG? Maybe it would be easier to have a Canadian airline instead.
ReplyDeleteIt could do it, but the BEG - YYZ leg would be risky because of the winds over the Atlantic, probably it would require a fuel stop e.g. in Shannon, Ireland.
DeleteI think that by the time Toronto gets open we will see a range of other destinations on the other side, to feed it and decrease seasonality (new like Tehran, strengthened like Athens and Thessaloniki, etc)
ReplyDeleteI’ve been praying for these flights every year. I don’t see how they can’t make it successful given the very large Balkan and eastern euro diaspora here and Air Serbia’s existing (and soon to be improved) regional network.
ReplyDeleteI will say it again please please please I go every year from Toronto to bgd
ReplyDeleteIts misleading to only look at Toronto's Serbian population as Serbs from all over Canada would be coming to Toronto via driving or flight transfer.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 19:50
DeleteI live in Vancouver and the cheapest flight to Toronto that can be bundled in a single itinerary with Air Serbia (if even possible), would be $400-500 CAD in the best-case scenario, plus between 4 and 5 hours of flying. I don't even want to comment the part about driving to Toronto. It is much quicker and cheaper to have the first leg from Vancouver to destination in Western Europe (London, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Paris, Zurich, Munich) ad a long-haul flight, and then a short connecting flight to Belgrade. Even flying on THY via Istambul in the summer would make more sense and would be quicker.
Bice jos nekoliko zanimljivih destinacija i na bliskom istoku.
ReplyDeleteA mozda i jos jedan sirokotrupni avion dodje a da nije A330.
INN-NS
JAT served Montreal as well.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea if it was Belgrade-Toronto-Montreal or direct, but I don’t think so.
Also, Vancouver was about to be introduced.
JAT served Beograd-Zagreb-Montreal-Toronto. 3 weekly in summer, 2 weekly in winter. More than 90 % of passengers were for Toronto but Canadian authorities were refusing for years to allow nonstop flights to Toronto, in order to protect Canadian carriers. And it was not only JAT - Alitalia, Olympic, Sabena, Swissair, they all had to have one stop before YYZ. If I remember correctly, only BA, LH and AF had rights to do YYZ nonstop flights. And yes, Vancouver was supposed to become one of the next scheduled destinations in North America after MD-11 arrival, along with Washington, Miami, Houston and San Francisco
DeleteHouston? Never heard that it was in the plans for expansion. Back then there was not a significant Balkan diaspora there. Interesting.
DeleteHouston was not meant to be diaspora flight. Huge city, the fourth biggest in the US, after New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. Texas, one of the richest US states, and significant share of catholic population taking part in Medjugorje pilgrimages. Even JAT office in Houston was opened in 1990.
DeleteInteresting
DeleteBut catolic population as potential tourists to Yugoslavia to come and see medjugorje? Now that's kinda wishful tinking.
1988-1990 roughly half of JAT US passengers were Medjugorje pilgrimage groups. Today, I agree, no way.
DeleteAko Airbas A321 XLR ima dolet Beograd - Toronto, tada bi letovi mgli da se ekonomski isplate. Mada bez mnogo kargo tereta. U tom slucaju i sa 200 sedista bi bilo isplativo.
ReplyDeleteNaravno standardni A321 ima maksimalno do 240 sedista.
Dali ce avioni A 321 XLR biti u floti Er Srbije zavisice od buduce mreze duzih destinacija. Jedno je sigurno. Avioni A321XLR i A350 - 1000 su za sada primarna prodaja Erbasove produkcije u svojoj klasi.
Rodney Marinkovic and Aviation Enthusiast Associate Group. 🛫🌐🛫🇷🇸🛫🇫🇷✈